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The Passion of the Christ...

Moses25

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Anyone seen it?

Thoughts? Queries? Anti-Semitism? Did you throw-up at the graphical violence? Leave the theatre early? Is Gibson a hero or suffering from Borderline Personality Syndrome?

Should it have been called "The Passion of the Gibson(s)"?

Anyone thinking of re-affirming their Christian roots?

It is as it was, so sayeth Pope John Paul II.

...or was it?

Love, Moses --> settling in for a nice, drawn-out theological debate.

Aaaahh, where's me rootbeer? (John 3:11)

Cheers.😀

P.M.S. Offical website: http://www.thepassionofthechrist.com/splash.htm
Rotten Tomatoes Review: http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/ThePassionoftheChrist-1129941/
Roger Ebert's Review: http://www.suntimes.com/output/ebert1/cst-ftr-passion24.html
 
Speaking of the movie-a truly unfortunate story.

Kansas woman dies watching 'Passion' scene -report

CHICAGO, Feb 25 (Reuters) - A woman died of an apparent heart attack on Wednesday while watching the climactic crucifixion scene in "The Passion of the Christ" at a morning showing in Wichita, Kansas, a television station reported.

The film was stopped and a nurse in attendance went to the woman's side, KAKE-TV in Wichita reported.

"It was the highest emotional part of the movie," a spokeswoman for the station said. A crew from the station was at the special showing, which was sponsored by the ClearChannel Radio chain.

The Wichita Eagle newspaper, on its Web site, identified the woman as Peggy Scott, 56, a sales manager for two local radio stations.

Employees at KAKE-TV said they knew the woman as Peggy Law, adding they did not think she had any pre-existing health problems.

The woman was pronounced dead at a nearby hospital, where a spokesman would only say she had been attending a movie. The county coroner's office said an autopsy would be performed.

Mel Gibson's film, which opened on Wednesday, has been both criticized and praised for its violent, bloody portrayal of Christ's final hours.
 
i will be going to a March 6th showing, as part of our Church. we will then return to the Church to discuss the movie - particularly its adherence to the Gospels and identification of artistic license.

i never cared for that whole "the Jews Killed Christ" argument. the bottom line is that Christ was sacrificed as part of God's salvation plan - He ordained it from before the creation of the world. Christ was incarnated to die.

i heard that a woman in kansas had a fatal heart attack shortly after the graphic crucifiction scene.
 
Well, I just finished watching Gibson on Leno. He seems suprised at the onslaught he's had to endure b4 the movie even opened, and was a l'il miffed at the ferocity of opinions that has been coming forth.

"I knew I'd touch a nerve, but not cut an artery," he claims.

Que cera, cera...

I haven't seen too many interviews with Mel, but...does he suffer from some type of speech pathology, or dyslexia? I found he had enormous trouble "defending" his work, verbally. His complementing body language, though, seemed to suggest that he wanted to scream out, "Wake up people!! The Jews killed our Saviour!!" or sumpin' to that effect.😛

"Wake up people!! Why are we letting the Jews run Hollywood!?!"
or
" ------------------------------------------ run the United States."

...which is often grouped into the same category these days by certain circles.

Ok, a l'il tongue-in-cheek there, but I don't buy that he's not anti-Semitic (for lack of a more appropriate description - I use that term loosely, in the same manner in which it is bandied about these days) particularly after reading what his parents had to say aboot the Jewish people.

Guilty by kinship? Well, he is, by his own admission, very close to them, which also implies some congruity in opinion(s), in my books.

His defense of the gratuitous violence? Two words: "Kill Bill".

That doesn't mean anything. He might as well have said "Hockey Night in Canada" if he wanted to use incomparable comparisons. There's not a critic alive (or dead...RIP Gene Siskel) who would lump the two movies into the same bin.

Finally, he claims that the violence was used to push people to 'the edge'. Well, I'm sorry, but most human beings I know withdraw when exposed to such use of graphic brutality and torture.

Maybe the man was tired or I caught him on an off day, but I've never been a fan of his "acting", and although I'm sure I will enjoy his movie (I'm a fan of heavy stuff), I'm beginning to think the man a boob. N'est-ce pas?

Cheers.😀
 
Watched him in an interview about it yesterday and this is what it seems to me:

The man had a religious awakening. Part of that was based in the horror HE perceived HIS savior endured for HIM. The poignant realism taht he must have seen in HIS mind's eye that made him appreciate the man, not just the symbol. IT seems it made a life changing impact on him and is the core of who he is as a person. He has faith. Strong faith. Enduring faith. Wish I had summa dat! Thus...he wanted to share it.

*shrug*

People read so much into everything.

Jo
 
🙂 Well, ummm...I just posted in that "other" "Passion....." thread ...lol. I took 25 minutes writing that post and I will no doubt get yelled at, pushed around and if I am lucky, tickled a bit for it but I am posting the same post here...so bleh...lol.

here it is....psssst...if u already read it in that other thread (said with much love🙂 then I have advice for u regarding reading this one....don't!!!!...lol.

Hi everyone🙂 I have emerged from semi-posting retirement to comment in this thread...🙂 ...I saw the movie lastnight and have talked to several people about it and It seems that your responses/comments to the movie here are relatively similar to everyone else I seem to be talking to or hearing from...the responses seem to fragment into a few major categories:

1. The films violence
2. The films portrayal of anti-semitism
3. Biblical/scriptural accuracy

Here are my thoughts🙂 Btw, if any part of my post appears negative or sarcastic...it is a misperception...(in other words, it's you not me,lol...) Seriously, I am just verrry passionate about this topic...call this post The Passion of Ticklemmmeeeeee if u so desire,lol. Now read what I wrote or I'll tickle u...j/k🙂 🙂

1. As far as the movie being violent...I am shocked that anyone going to see this movie was shocked that there would be violence depicted...is there anyone past the age of 5 in this country that honestly did not know that Jesus was crucified? I am sure it would make many people "feel better" if it were not so violent but the hard truth is that death by crucifixion is not pretty and I am sure Jesus would have "felt" better if He didn't have to do what He did.
Lacking any formal commentary from Mel from which to quote him, and myself being a Christian who is forever grateful for what God's only son did for ME, I feel relatively confident that the reason for the vivid brutality was not to provide portions of blood-thirsty america with yet another graphic cinematic blood bath to glorify....(to those of you who actually claim to hail the bloodflow) I believe the graphic nature was to depict as accurately as one can just what Jesus really endured physically, mentally, and spiritually during His last 12 hours of physical life so that we may , just perhaps appreciate a bit more of what He went through for us and that He didn't just die for us He was tortured, brutalized and eventually died for our sins.

It's so easy throughout our lives to cast aside the violence with which Jesus died when we say almost casually anymore how "He died for our sins"....I wonder if alot of people who say that and want to mean it really take time to even ponder what he did for us. I will repeat because it bares repeating, He didn't just die for us, he was tortured and slowly murdered. That is a biblical and historical fact, Mel didn't write the bible he merely attempted to re-enact an act of love that ended in violence. This movie is a love story. God loves us so much he sacrificed his only son for us so that we may live. A son who was sin free, praying for his torturers and soon to be murderers even on the cross as he slowly died. Do any of us know even one person in our lives who would commit such an act of love for us? I don't know that I do...not really.

On a slight tangent...many non-believers went to see the movie and I applaud them because not knowing the truth of what you believe regarding God and Jesus' death is not shameful but not investigating it and making an informed decision of what to believe , is.

I personally feel that this movie is one of the greatest evangilical tools the media has spat out in a while. It is a great way to strike up a conversation about God...and teach people the truth...some people think they know the truth, they think that there isn't one...I say if you can't explain your beliefs in a way that is non-defensive and non-judgemental and full of respect then perhaps you are not even sure what you believe, If you want to tell a person he or she is wrong and you are right but you do not offer evidence to support it, perhaps you would do better to ask rather than try and tell...if you have a conversation in which someone tells you something other than what you believe do you argue or thank them for their ideas and zealously pursue the truth on your own? When you find a conflicting fact to what someone says do you confront them with love and share what you found or are you eager to throw the mistake they made in their face? If you don't behave this way when confronted with opposing viewpoints then perhaps you wish more to possess an opposing view than an accurate one or maybe they would rather be right than know the truth or even worse, maybe you would rather prove someone inferior rather than help teach him. 🙁

To not believe is a personal choice and it doesn't make me angry it makes me sad, but to mock or ridicule Jesus or His death is something I take personally and anyone who loves Jesus should be offended as well. When we attack something we say we do not believe in rather than simply refrain from commenting it usually means we care about it more than we care to admit. I recommend that some people engage in a bit of self evaluation and intense introspection regarding why they take pleasure in being so anti everything🙂Anyway, I digress...lol.

2. As far as the film being anti-semitic..If the film transmits negative attitudes, stereotypes and caricatures about Jews it is because the media exacerbates that seed that it ever - so-cleverly planted in mainstream America of angst over imagined anti-semitic uprisings and such hype and people who want to blame the Jews fall for it...because well, let's face it, as long as you are blaming someone else you don't have to take personal responsibility, correct?🙂

I don't see how anyone can see that the film is anti-semitic unless they are looking for it. I believe it has the potential to fuel anti-semitism though. I do know one thing to be a fact, Mel is a Christian and because of that I feel confident in attesting that he is not anti-semitic because anti-semitism is anti-christian. Anyone who reads the bible knows that Jesus did not die only because of the Jews sins or the Romans sins, He died for ALL of our sins...It is difficult to depict anyones sinful behavior associated with those last 12 hours other than the romans and jews because that is who Jesus spent those last hours with....Rather than fear a semitic uprising I think a more worthwhile avenue to ponder is asking yourself this question....if YOU had been there, what would YOU have done for HIM? 🙂

3. As far as biblical and scriptural accuracy...I am facinated by this and still checking this part out but based on what I have read thus far it seemed to be pretty accurate though there is much I need to check out for myself because I am hearing many people say things that reflect discomfort with Mel's interpretations of some obscure areas in certain scriptures. One thing I actually overheard someone complain about is that he thought the film inaccurately glorified Mary. I didn't see that or get that impression , I saw a mother reacting quite typically to her son's pain.

Well, that's it for now...I probably lost most of u somewhere back between the beginnings of my little rant about attitudes and giving u homework,lol. Don't hate me because I'm ticklish...wait, where did that come from?...(just a girls feeble attempt to calm an anticipated angry mob,lol...I know I am goofy🙂 byeee 4 now...
~tm 🙂🙂🙂
🙄 😀 :zzzzz:
 
First of all...truly, welcome back TickleMe, if only for a little while. I do enjoy reading your little meanderings, I hope you come out of "posting retirement" a little more often...

Case in point for the above: You probably all know by now that I'm far from religous, and my "beleifs" on the subject of religion, and on christianity itself, can be a little...harsh at times. But I totaly agree with what you just posted TM, it was, in my mind, a sound defence of Gibson's style and of the way that he chose to portray Christ's last hours. Son of God or not, he died asking that we be all be forgived for his torture, and its *about damn time* that some people started to truly appreciate what "dieing for our sins" truly involved. This film will no doubt give those that watch it (I haven't, yet..) some significant images that they'll remember for a long, long time...

*sigh*...on a slightly lighter note, is this film technically accomplished at all? I mean, is the script ok, is the editing good enough so that you don't notice it, does the story arc work without going all all over the place? Even the best plots can get screwed over by a poor re-telling...

AT
 
Admiral...thanx for the support of my ever-so-rantful post 🙂 The film was done beautifully. The atmosphere was appropriately dark yet beautiful...the acting, though performed by "unknowns" was phenomenal and the plot...well, I think u know about that🙂 I have no idea why but I envisioned getting linguistically creamed for my post...lol...I suppose that indicates I am more of a pessimist than I want to believe...or perhaps optimistically speaking, perhaps I am simply an optimistic realist with pessimistic tendencies...🙂
 
There is one thing surrounding this film that pisses me off above all others.

When is someone going to give the expression "anti-semitism" a frigging break? It comes into everything and leaks through cracks into places where it has no relevance. (Sort of like Tony Blair really.) I'm sick and f***ing tired of this phrase being repeated for no other reason than the anti-semitism campaigners agrandisement. Christ is depicted being crucified. The Jews in that area give him up and the Romans condemn him. And this is supposed to have relevance for an entire nation or all people who say they have semitic blood? Only a complete turd-brain would believe so. Why should it be seen as being anti a whole people for heaven's sake? For God's sake can we please mention the Jews (As if so many people could possibly be descibed by a single word anyway! :disgust: You can't just lump millions of people into one word.) without some bunch of tossers like the ADL leaping up and down and screaming for airtime?

Anyway, back on topic. I havn't seen the film yet; I almost certainly will see it. I find religion fascinating and I thoroughly enjoy a good story. I think Mel will have over-gored it for the sake of sensationalism (why would he cange the habit of a lifetime? This is the man who asn't got a f***ing clue about history, as demonstrated amply in Braveheart and The Patriot) but I'll see it anyway. I think it'll be fascinating.
 


BigJim...I don't believe u were speaking to me in ur post but I am awake and am facinated by religion also so I will respond🙂

I honestly do not believe that the gore depicted in the film is one bit for sensationalism...upon what information do I base this opinion? Well...for starters Mel is Christian and it only makes sense that he wants the world (that tiny little division that may not know Jesus) to know how Jesus suffered and chose to die for us) It's beneficial for believers in that maybe we will all have a deeper appreciation of what Jesus did for us so we may ask ourselves what we can do now that we have seen it. It's beneficial for non-believers as well and I hope they seek the truth for themselves.

I do wish Mel's movie explained God's plan better...see...(for those of u who do not know but wish to...)
God's plan in Jesus dying on the cross for us was this: Our sins required DEATH as punishment. Because of MERCY, Jesus offered His sinless life as the substitute for ours. God demonstrated His LOVE for us, in that "while we were still sinners, Christ died for us." (Matthew 20:28, I John 4:10, I Peter 2:24, Romans 5:8.)
The shedding of blood was required for us to have forgiveness of sins. He became our Savior by dying on the CROSS. He washes our sins away by His own BLOOD. (Hebrews 9:22, John 15:13, 19:17-18, Revelation 1:5.) His death for your sins satisfied God's requirement for your punishment. (I Corinthians 15:22.)
The GOOD NEWS of the Gospel is that on the third day after His burial, Jesus Christ AROSE FROM THE DEAD. (I Corinthians 15:3-4.) This was witnessed by many people. (I Corinthians 15:5-8.) After 40 days, He ascended back to Heaven. (Acts 1:3, 9-11.)
Jesus proved to us that by His power we, too, can CONQUER DEATH. Christ proved that He has authority over Satan who had the power of death. Jesus offers to release those who are slaves to the fear of death. Sin and death no longer have dominion over us since God's Son has provided us with a way of escape from the wrath of God. (Hebrews 2:14-15, Romans 6:14.)


As far as the gore....if you refer to the bible, the gore happened, the brutality seen on the screen of Mel's movie is a pretty accurate dramatization, sadly 🙁 This is what the scriptures say:



Isaiah 52:14 “Many were amazed when they saw him - beaten and bloodied, so disfigured one would scarcely know he was a person.”

53:3-6 “For he was despised and rejected – a man of sorrows, acquainted with bitter grief. We turned our backs on him and looked the other way when he went by. He was despised, and we did not care .Yet it was our weaknesses he carried; it was our sorrows that weighed him down. And we thought his troubles were a punishment from God for his own sins! But he was wounded and crushed for our sins. He was beaten that we might have peace. He was whipped, and we were healed! All of us have strayed away like sheep. We have left God’s paths to follow our own. Yet the Lord laid on him the guilt and sins of us all.”

8. “…But who among the people realized that he was dying for their sins - that he was suffering their punishment?”

11-12 “…And because of what he has experienced, my righteous servant will make it possible for many to be counted righteous, for he will bear all their sins. I will give him the honors of one who is mighty and great, because he exposed himself to death. He was counted among those who were sinners. He bore the sins of many and interceded for sinners.”

Anyway, BigJim, I think it's great that ur interested in religion...I think though that we (everyone) should not just be interested in religion but delve also into researching where we came from and what our purpose is here on earth...we should do this until we can have rational, non angry conversations about it and explain clearly and respectfully what we believe without ever reaching a point where we do not take any opposing intelligent bit of information as unworthy of investigating....I am hoping the film encourages non believers to pursue the truth and believers to try and not only believe in God but believe what He says. (Believeing IN Him isn't enough, even satan believes IN God...we have to believe what He tells us through his word...true faith comes from hearing, hearing the word of God), read the bible...do studies that help you to understand the scriptures...seek for yourselves what Gods word says that we must do to be saved...I chat with people in rooms that have arguments about what the bible says without ever mentioning a scripture from it, how sad...like a warrior going into battle without his sword...I also talk to people who say they are encouraged to not question certain things in their religions...I say that if you are in a religious affiliation that discourages u from seeking the truth or verifying anything ur told , that sounds too much like a cult to me, I personally would not worship a God that didn't encourage me to check and see if what I was being told is accurate. But that's just me and I am a need to know kinda girl🙂 I will scoot before I am shoved off,lol..but first I will say this...people who question Gods existence will say they need to see the science...that there is no factual proof that God exists... I would be very happy to spend time with anyone wishing more info on that🙂
~tm 🙂

 
im telling you people, chad kroger from nickelback should of played Jesus christ.
 
I can see Chad as that role now... He'd be singing on the cross... The scary thing is, if you read the lyrics to that song "Hero" from the Spiderman soundtrack, they'd actually be perfect for The Passion of Christ. However, it would probably be hard to translate into Aramaic.
 
Ticklemmmeeeeee said:


people who question Gods existence will say they need to see the science...that there is no factual proof that God exists... I would be very happy to spend time with anyone wishing more info on that🙂
~tm 🙂


Science is as unreliable in explaining Creation as religion is. they are both dogmas with holes in them that demand blind obedience and acceptance from their followers. I attempt to tread the middle ground. I believe in "God" of a sort, but it's conceived differently to the Bible's version. I think if anything, my idea of "God" is more powerful and omnipotent than any version I've heard from a Reverend. What really sets me and other like me free, is this whole "each human soul is like a single cell in the body of God" premise. It's like a molecule of water in the ocean. Each one is seperate and individual, but also part of the greater, with access to all the power, strength and knowledge contained in all the others. An individual human is a staggeringly powerful being, if only they would believe it and break through the de-linking from Infinity that religion and politics has created the illusion of.

TM, have you read my thread on the origin of religions? If you havn't, do you want me to PM it to you?
 
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Thanks for your responses, guys. I'm learning a lot. 🙂

Cheers.😀

P.M.S. Great thoughts, Ticklemeeeeeee, but too much pink. 😛
 
Heh. I am not going to see this movie, because I could care less about Jesus and God ... um... Jesus is Christ right? Anyway, also because torture bothers me (besides the tickling kind 😀 ) and from what you all said, I would probably leave a little into it, being the pussy that I am! hehe.

And what's anti-semetism? Anti jew? or what? Just curious.

Anyway, yada. Etc. Later.
 
the film looks boring to me and i do not believe in that boring god and jesus books anyway
 
Krazy said:
have a good time in hell

I gotta say... Hell is pretty nice this time of year; it froze over when Bush #2 got into office, and now, mild summers start early there. I hear the timeshare is relatively affordable, but all the former Enron execs are buying it up.
 
TM, have you read my thread on the origin of religions? If you havn't, do you want me to PM it to you?

BigJim...no I haven't seen it and yes I would very much appreciate u sending it to me🙂 Please send to my email rather than pm if [email protected] Thanks! (I have some thoughts about what u posted here but will hold off responding until I see what ur sending me🙂

Moses...thanks and I'm glad ur learning things!!! (Sorry about the pink!....I can't help it!!!...lol)

Baron....(I just did, thanks🙂
~tm
 
Hi everyone!
Wow, Like Moses25 said, everyone has posted a lot of information up here on this subject and done quite a good job! Amazing. One could really learn a great deal from reading this thread on this tickle website - who'd a thought, eh? 🙂

That said, i won't repeat what's already been covered. But it may be helpful to note loud and clear that Jesus was himself Jewish. The Gospels of Matthew and Luke both locate Jesus as a member of the tribe of Judah who was one of the sons of Israel/Jacob. In other words, another problem with saying "the Jews killed Jesus," is that it creates the illusion of division between Jesus and the people as though he were murdered by some foreign group.
Such ideas have been fostered in the past by hollywood itself - just think of the last time you saw Jesus protrayed with blond hair and blue eyes! 😱

The message especially in the Synoptic Gospels of Matthew, Mark and Luke, as well as John, though in that one it may be less obvious in some ways, is that Jesus was accused by the people whom he grew up viewing as his own kin and leaders. The Sanhedrin, the Pharisees, the Scribes, they were all the legitimate authorities of his own nation.

As has been said by others far more eloquent than i, the Jews did not kill Jesus in the way it has been interpreted by people in the past. We all are responsible for his death - in that only by sharing in his death do we have any hope of freedom from sin and of participating in his resurrection.

And speaking of resurrection, you can't have one unless you die. I'm guessing this isn't news to us. 😉

But seriously, the question of Christians worshiping a God who bleeds, has always been scandalous right back to earliest times. That is why there is so much talk trying to explain it in the Bible. And it does properly draw Christians up short - what does it mean for our lives to say, "I follow a God whose great mission in life was to die a horrible death." Makes you think about that second BMW in the driveway.

the sharp reaction of the Christian community - to say nothing of the vast majority of the world that in fact has heard little of Jesus, (sorry ticklemeeeeee)- only reveals how far we have moved away from this essential part of Christian teaching: Jesus "...suffered under Pontius Pilate, was crucified, died and was buried..."
(Apostles' Creed - A.D. 180)

Well, i've rambled long enough. I hope this helps in some small way add to the discussion, as we journey through the season of Lent.

Many blessings everybody. 😎

Chickles_🙂
 
speaking of the passion of the Christ. my Dad was telling me that he heard on some Radio station that the host of that Radio station who was a christian) told a story on the Radio that my dad was happening to listen to. of a guy that was walking through a dark alley when he was younger and be for he even became a famous star. and while he was walking through this dark alley on the way home 3 guys surronded him and asked him for his Wallat and everything that the guy had and owned. But he refused to give it to them so the three guys jumped him in the alley way and beat him up so bad that he didn't even look like a man no more. They broke his legs and seprated his jaw and when the police got thier they already delcared the man dead that they found in the alley way. But they took him to the hosptail anyways just check him out and while they were driving fast towards the hospital the man that been beaten up real real bad in the dark alley way Gasped for breath and the hospital people heard this Gasping in the back and its turns out the guy was still alive after all that beating the poor man Got by the hands of the three guys that jumped him. and it Turns out the man that Got beating almost to the point of death was MEL GIBSON himself.

and look at him now he's a true star great story i thought that my dad told me🙂 just thought i would share that with everyone.

and as well further More about the passion of the Christ my Dad also told him that he heard that mel gibson just before shooting the Cruxican scene that mel gibson prayed and prayed to God that it was rain and storm out just before filming the cruxican scene of christ on the Cross. and it did it stormed so wildly that the main character and actor that portrayed Jesus Christ got hit by lighting while still on the Cross and his hair was burned up to a crisp. Now if thats not the hand of God blessing down on mel gibson during that scene and movie then i do NOT KNOW WHAT IS🙂
 
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