Tickling, for FUN or for PAIN??

[FeatherFeet]

yea, reasons like that are why i dont support non consensual tickling, tho i admit with friends its normally unconsenual lol, but that only lasts for a few minutes normally, if it lasts longer than that when u really want them to stop, then you dont have good friends...

 

[ladybird27]

Those of you who know me know that I almost never post publically on the forums because of the tendency for overly enthusiastic males to send me pesty, inane PM's like "can I tickle your feet?". Therefore, let it be clearly understood that I am only writing this because I think this discussion is important enough for me to come out of lurkdom and contribute despite the risk of future annoyance.

Somebody else--I forget who--said that there is consentual tickling, nonconsentual tickling and consentual/nonconsentual tickling.

I agree in principle, but I don't think it's quite that easy to separate things. For example--there is nonconsentual tickling between friends, lovers or siblings--where for one reason or another one person holds the other and tickles, and the lee didn't agree beforehand. If the lee is upset or made to feel violated by such an experience, the ler has, in my mind anyway, an obligation to stop and appologize (or, if it's a sibling, to graciously except punishment in kind 🙂). However, not all people being tickled in under those circumstances are upset or traumatized--an interaction like that, though causing unlooked for and initially undesired laughter or physical reactions, can be a bonding experience and an exploration of trust--how far is the ler going to go? Is it a component of playful wrestling? Are they doing it to be cruel or to cheer the person up--I've seen a few instances where people have tickled others to get them to laugh, since it's commonly known that laughter can be a great way to relieve stress and negative emotions. Although such situations are technically nonconsentual, I don't think that they must always be reprehensible and thus fall under the catagory of abuse.

Now granted, I'm talking about family or friendship relationships--if you're talking about strangers, that's an entirely different senerio. Tickling, like any form of contact, should be modulated by the general maxim of "keep your hands to yourself". You wouldn't walk up to a co-worker and smack him or her, for example. 🙂 And of course, if the ler is deriving sexual pleasure from the lee's helplessness when that is inappropriate--say between siblings or with children--that is just wrong.

Another example of the fine line between consentual and nonconsentual tickling situations is tickling videos. Those models have signed contracts saying that they agree to be tickled for compensation. Some of them hate being tickled, some get into the bondage and realize it's very intense--but they have a legal contratual obligation to allow themselves to be tickled. While their reactions, positive or negative, please us, we know as we're watching tht the lees are doing a job, so to speak, and that while they may wish for the tickling to stop they're not getting anything worse than what they're being payed, by their own consent, to get. Is the idea of tickling videos right or moral? Is it like pornography, since people sometimes/often derive sexual pleasure from watching? Tgat;s an entirely different issue. But I don't think it's inhuman or cruel, even when the lees are tickled beyond what they think they signed on for.

And as to whether it's sick--well, I guess I'd rather have people watching the videos than doing it to real people. I really think that all depends on a person's grasp of reality--I for one have some tickle torture fantasies that are just that, fantacies. I would never want that as part of my love life, or my social life, but I find the idea somewhat erotic. Then again--there are people who don't know the fine line between fantasy and reality, and for them the distinction between being turned on by a video and turned on by tickling someone without their consent may be blurry. It's a bit like people who drink socially and may even occasionally have a few too many VS. an alcoholic. Generally, we as a society tolerate and approve of the first kind of person, while we are concerned for the personal health of the latter kind of person as well as his or her risk to society (drunk driving, etc.) Saying that all people who are turned on by tickle torture fimls or stories, which are fictional, are sickos is like saying that all people who drink, even just a few times a year, are alcoholics.

 

[drew70]

Ladybird, having now read a post from you, I'm finding myself hoping you post more often.

For me, there are several aspects of tickling that excite me. The physical aspect, the actual touching of a sensitive surface stimulating an involuntary response. But that's not the only aspect of tickling I find exciting. The unfairness of it is also a stimulant. The idea of a somebody tickling somebody else who is unable to protect his or herself. The taking advantage and exploiting of that helplessness for self serving purposes. That is also a big part of what excites me about tickle torture. It's invasive, agonizing and cruel. Doubly so in that the victims often can't properly express their disapproval and outrage, but are forced rather to express mirth and joy, when they are feeling anything but.

 

[nessonite1]

Aplologies, Ladybird. When I seperated tickling into three generic categories (consensual, non-consensual, and consensual non-consensual) I was refering to a more intense, invasive tickling between two non-related adults.
It is true that there are a million and one different different shadesof tickling. Some non-consensual (playful, between friends,non abusive) being perfectly okay.
What is or isn't "right" is of course purely a matter of personal opinion. But with few exeptions I think we could all agree on a base set of guidlines regarding good taste, and respect of personal boundries.

In any case, Ladybird, I think your reply was well thoguht out and I too hope you post more often.

 

[HOLLYWOOD]

ladybird: very good post indeed according to the hollywood brother. The Hollywood Brother really liked how smart you words were and how good you wrotethem. Please keep posting and let us get more words of wisdom from you

 

[ElfTickler]

Personally, I don't think that abusive tickling really bothers me, though the thought of having something like that done to me makes me quiver.

I might seem like a hypocrite saying that, but think of it this way. I don't mind watching scary movies with graphic murders, nor do they really bother me. Millions of people are like that as well. However, the thought as you are alone in a dark room of a murderer stalking you with a gigantic blade causes a cold sweat to erupt.

Even so, I've had fantasies of tickle-toturing people, but never really to the extent of keeping someone as a "pet." I tried once to create a character that was used primarily as a character in tickling stories (the lee, eh) and it just seemed like the character, in my mind, wouldn't stay prey for tickling long. The character wanted to develop to mean something more then a tickling toy. Maybe that relates to the fact that I wouldn't do something to a person of that extreme in real life.

We all have our little fantasies of wanting to tie down a gorgeous blonde, or a rugged guy and tickling them until you feel a sense of control. However, when you think about it, wouldn't there be more pleasure involved (since all of this deals with pleasure, usually, unless someone is just a sadomasochist - in that case... well, no words need to be spoken) if the gorgeous blonde or the rugged guy enjoyed the tickling and was your mate?

Isn't that what it's all about, the sexual attraction, when you think about fantasies of an erotic nature? If you were given the choice between being able to guiltlessly tickle a gorgeous blonde for unlimited time, all her life, would you choose that over having a beautiful blonde girlfriend who allowed you to tickle her whenever you liked and still loved you?

Assuming the blonde was replaced with a guy, I would choose the love over the torture any day.

Of course, that's just my two cents. (blinks and hops off)

 

[TRU1]

Sometimes I just like pure torture, it really depends on the mood I'm in. Sometimes I like it for the pain and sometimes I like it for the pleasure..

 

[FeatherFeet]

well then u go dream about it, but if u ever do it, ur a sicko

 

[quesecotil1]

RIGHT!

I have a few opinions which I wish to draw from in the following post, I will begin with the ‘Sicko’ part of this argument.

I think that people should have the freedom to think however they like and about whatever they like, even if it is obscene or offensive. I believe that people have the right to commit to paper or electronically or any other medium their fantasies, desires and lusts and I think that they should be able to do this without persecution. I’m going to repeat an opinion I hold from the ‘This can't be legal, can't it?‘ thread, that opinion is the fact that would you rather that the people who produce this media commit this to the internet where those of like mind can read it or would you rather they bottle it up and possibly explode with sexual tension and desire, the results of that could be damage to the person in question or maybe, just maybe, they’ll try to live out their fantasies on someone.

I’m a firm believer in the fact that freedom should be viewed and respected and all acts should be tolerated as long as no-one is hurt in any way (physically or mentally) throughout the process. I also think that it is unfair to label someone who writes something like this a ‘Sicko’ in fact you can look at this from a fetish perspective. The person who writes these stories has the same fetish as a tickle fetishist however they take a different approach, no matter how many kinds of tickling there is and no matter what kind of category others fall into it all falls under the main heading of tickling. There are a few exceptions, maybe this is one of them, but from where I sit merely producing this kind of media is not the behaviour of a ‘Sicko’ and I don’t think they deserve to be labelled as such. However any person who would take another against their will and performs those actions on them, the person in question certainly has something wrong with them in a mental sense. Though as I look back on that in retrospect it’s a very animalistic thing to let your desires and lusts take control. We are after all animals if you trace it right back. In this case it is actually understandable as to why people do this, however it is completely un-civilised behaviour and should have no place outside of the bedroom(wherever 😛) with a consenting partner.

Personally I am quite detached from reality. My imagination is always one step ahead of me and I wouldn’t have it any other way. I enjoy being quite fantasy based and having my ‘head in the clouds’ so to speak. This means, as you’ve probably guessed, that I have many fantasies that revolve around uncountable scenarios. I frequently fantasise about characters created from imagination whether they be mine or someone else’s in numerous differing scenarios. I will support anyone of like mind so long as they work inside the boundaries of my unwritten, unspoken law which I cited earlier.

I now move on to the moral implications of this facet of the tickling fetish.

Is it fair to condemn people because of what they think or believe? When you get right down to it, aren’t written or animated media a type of thought that occurred in the mind of the creator and they artfully took that thought in their hands and shaped it into something that others can see and enjoy?

I’m not in the habit of denying people what they wish to see if it is completely harmless to everyone else. A story is an idea and ideas can’t hurt people until they are put in motion. However in this instance the people can read a story or watch some media and get the tension and frustration out of their systems. If someone with an animalistic side is allowed to be wound taught then they might end up snapping.

The bottom line in this post is the fact that people need to vent their sexual frustrations and I for one would much rather have them do it in this way. I almost have to agree with this media because of the fact that it follows my moral code. No one is hurt mentally or physically and people can de-stress and move on.

As to the question asked in the first place:

What is tickling anymore? For fun? Or for suffering?

My answer to that is thus, tickling is whatever the person with the fetish chooses it to be. You can’t force other people to see your opinion even if you wave it in their face, much the same as you can take a horse to water but you can’t make it drink. It is still morally right so long as no damage is caused, that is part of my moral code and that ladies and gentlemen is my opinion.

 

[ElfTickler]

Well said. (claps)

 

[TomGirl]

I agree with you. I like tickling for fun not for torment.

 

[alf1]

What is tickling anymore? for fun? or for suffering?

For me evidently for fun......the more perverted can choose option number two 🙄 🙂

 

[CheshireCatNY]

WHAT HAPPENED TO THE GOOD OLD DAY?

Now this comment always cracks me up, as if at some point in time we were all so much less screwed up....because the truth is, THERE NEVER WERE ANY GOOD OLD DAYS!! Wether you like to believe it or not, humans are historically angry, violent, insensitive creatures in the overal spectrum and wether we're cheering as boxers beat the crap out of each other or indulging in seeing someone in a non-consentual situation, its all in human nature. Nothing has changed since the "good old days" except for how open people are with their hidden desires. In the 1930s to 50s there was a consesus to keep anything "not nice" a secret and to never speak of it in public. Unless you lived in a major city, you had to hide anything unusual about yourself just to survive. Humans have a thirst, an obsession with the taboo and the unacceptable, the same reason we slow down to see a car wreck. There has always been perversion and unfortunately there always will be. I think the best representation of true human nature was in the Greek/Roman empire periods. Nothing like watching lions eat christians and then going to the local Orgy to get it on with an under age boy, BOY HOWDY!! 😛

On a personal note, yes I have thought of images like this. (not the christians and the boy, the non-consentual tickling, LOL) I have fantasized once or twice about women and men in non consentual situations. This doesnt mean I'm going to go out and do it. The main reason why most of these authors and artists depict such ideas is so that they may use this as an outlet rather than act on their impulses....

Years back there was an individual named Terri Disisto who posed as a woman online to get young men to send him tickling videos of themselves. When the guys tried to cut themselves off from him, he began harassing them and even went as far as to crash an entire schools computer mainframe to get back at them. He was arrested, shown on the news, basically anyone in the area who did not know we existed now had a pretty demonized idea of what we were all about. Now that pissed me off but at the same time, any community needs its definition of the lowest of low, in order to contrast and compare their own ethical fundementals.....and I'm sure the average joe normal who heard the news probably had a good laugh and didnt take much offense anyway...

What I'm trying to get at is, now matter what floats yer boat or what you're into there WILL ALWAYS be those who represent the darker side of your lifestyle and there is absolutely nothing anyone can do about it. There WILL ALWAYS be those that make a bad name for the rest of us and there WILL ALWAYS be those who will make us all feel a little bit better about ourselves in comparison......oh yeah and there will always be those of the high and mighty who feel that their shit don't stink and feel they can judge others so easily for being like that..... You're beliefs are not ironclad man...until we've explored all 100% of the human brain none of us will know for sure. I mean the Society for Moral Order already makes it hard enough for people with questionable lifestyles, its supposed to be us against them, not us against us...

A fetish can be a very powerful thing. For many, their fetish is like a drug addiction, they are controlled by their own desires, unable to look away from that rape scene or unable to supress arousal watching the woman tickled till she pees. Many feel remorse, shame or guilt from indulging in their own passions but cannot control it at the same time. This is all documented by the Department for Abnormal Psychology.....Man I loved that class....

Look at it this way, you may have thought for years that you yourself was a pervert or a sicko just for being into tickling at all, now you can look at the real freaks and be like "Wow...I'm not so bad..." LOL

Wow...havent posted like this in a long while....

 

[BellaRisa]

In reading this thread I'm seeing a lot of what tickling is *supposed* to be, regarding mere fantasy. Um, guys? Who are we to tell others what they should or shouldn't fantasize about? I dislike the truly intense, horror-type stories, mostly because they tend to be far too over the top to be as intense as they were going for. But I support them and their fans, it's a legitimate genre.
I agree, of course, that non-con in reality is wrong-VERY wrong. As in "Bella will stick a fork someplace you don't want it" wrong. But hooray for fantasies and fiction! Without such outlets I can't imagine what folks would be like-the human mind can be a sadistic place, it's just our nature however we wish to deny it. As long as the darker stuff remains in fiction and not on the 6'oclock news I'm all for it.

 

[tukano_2]

...
Now this comment always cracks me up, as if at some point in time we were all so much less screwed up....because the truth is, THERE NEVER WERE ANY GOOD OLD DAYS!! Wether you like to believe it or not, humans are historically angry, violent, insensitive creatures in the overal spectrum and wether we're cheering as boxers beat the crap out of each other or indulging in seeing someone in a non-consentual situation, its all in human nature.
...

I don't agree with that, I strongly believe that human beings, just like all other life forms, just seek a way to be happy/feel good, but mostly cannot see the way, get unhappy, turn bitter, become cruel, do bad/orrible things to others, possibly to make them feel the same way they do, or just because they learnt to believe that happiness is just an illusion an world is just "dog eats dog", and so on, and that form a chain that will be hard to break.
Human beings had a peculiar development as animal species, got so much in term of mental and intellectual improvement, but forgot most of the instinctual, non-mediated part of themselves and that they are cells in an unique large organism. Happiness doesn't come with fast calculation or hydraulic engineering, but with feelings, touching, warmth, exchanges with other living beings, as well as with learning to love themselves.

I don't think writing stories about people reduced to tickle slave forever has nothing to do with real life murder, rape and abuse in general. One can say that has to do with expressing their unconscious or something like that, like in dreams, anyway I absolutely don't think that has to be taken as a confirm of mankind's innate feral pulsion.
Things that come out of our brain can be weird and meaningless, as well as scaring, for other people, but they do mean something to us, we need them, in some hard to measure way.
Once you know this is fiction, and people who post that kind of stories clearly declare the connotation of what they are going to post, if you feel disturbed by that, just skip that stuff.
I think there are many more people who potentially could do criminal things between people keeping everything well hidden inside themselves than between TickleTheater posters/readers.

...
I swear, people are getting me sick. Ive read stories recently of people getting trapped and tickled for the rest of their life. This is sick.
...

I suppose you are referring to Milagros' stories. I have read some of his stories about those guys being trapped in hideaway places, their trappers managing to let the world believe they are dead, keeping them constantly in bondage, nacked, humiliated, exposed, compelled to be get nutrition by licking food off their trappers' feet, mercilessly tickled for hours on a daily basis and savagely spanked until their buttocks fall onto the ground. And that for all the rest of their life.
Well, apart the organizational issues in setting up such a captivity, money, people involved who can black mail the organizer, relatives, friends of the captive and police not so completely inept, not to talk about the unavoidable progressive loss of interest of the torturers for their victim (we are talking about years, a lifetime, people change and evolve), the wide variety of physical and mental diseases that unavoidably will afflict the victim in such a state, bringing him to death or to be completely undesirable as the target of tickle tortures, age concerns of both torturers and tortured, and so on...
It's like a Quentin Tarantino film.
If you take it seriously (as something that could really happen to real people, like me and you) you are going to have numberless sleepless nights, turn paranoid and meditate about suicide.
If you take it as what it is, a movie, you have 2 choices:
1) you watch it and laugh your ass off for the unbelievable exaggerated nonsenses in it;
2) you watch another movie.

Reading Milagros' stories I adopt the "laugh your ass off" strategy, and I'm able to enjoy them for the tickling/D/b content, and laugh for the absurdity of all the rest.
That said I must admit that in one particular story he wrote there was something that really made me shudder: apart from all the humiliation and torture, the guy was not allowed to have orgasms anymore, for the rest of his life. To me that is much worse than being reduced to a lifetime tickle slave!!!

 

[nessonite1]

That was a really great post, Tukano...very well written! How I wish I had the same way with words. 🙂

 

[ftmench]

Oh boy.

Sickos, perversions? What the hell do most people that never heard of a forum like this or had no interest would think of all of us. You know what I am talking about too. Now it strikes me as odd that some of our own in this particular interest would use words like that. Non-consensual ticking is a big fat turn on for a lot of people. So what? Everyone is a product of their environment. I prefer the non-consensual stories and simulated pics over all else, am I sick? I think not.
I feel symphathy for the persons that had a bad experience with tickling, but...if it was that bad, why are they a member here?
Just my opinion, which is like a face.....
D

 

[FeatherFeet]

if someone wants to fantacize about non consensual tickling and torture do so all they wish, but the term sicko comes from be sayin someone who would actually go out and do that to someone. i mean, its like raping someone for the tickle world. people call rapist sickos. so , if anyone would go out anf commit the "crime" of non concsensual tickle torture, then thus, you are sickos. if ur just fantacizin bout it, thats diff. just as long as its only a fantasy.

 

[FeatherFeet]

heres the reason though, that stories as extreme and miliagros's sometimes bother me, as many people say, non consensual tickling is the equivilent to the tickle fetishes rape. but, yet people support and love stories of it. yet, do people support stories of rape? i kno i dont. do people write stories about people gettin brutaly rapped and tormented in the process? i kno that quite a few people would consider that sick, demented and wrong, but if people consider non consensual tickling the same as rape. why dont they consider those stories the same? that is something i just dont get.

 

[nessonite1]

if people consider non consensual tickling the same as rape. why dont they consider those stories the same? that is something i just dont get.

I for one don't consider them to be the same at all. Only very distantly are they even similar.

 

[CheshireCatNY]

On a side note...

Just something I thought of recently. I used to know a girl, a close but troubled friend of mine whos fantasy was to be "attacked" and "raped" by someone. Really it was a form of extreme roleplay and Sado Masochism. I mean, she told me about this set up she did with a lover where he pulled her off a jogging trail into the woods and violently made love to her. Needless to say, I was creeped the fuck out...

What I'm saying is if there are those who have a "rape fetish" than who is to say there arent those ticklees among us who have a similar case only with non consentual tickling? In this whole thread we've been focusing primarily on all this from the ticklers perspective, but what about the rest? I'm sure there are plenty of ticklees here who fantasize about being "attacked" and tickled against their will, the pleasure drawn from the helplessness of the situation.

Its the same as S&M, there are submissive and dominant and sometimes individuals choose to take those roles to the extreme.

To deny ones nature is to live a lie...and to live a lie is a waist of a life. To thy own self be true. SIEZE THE MOMENT PEOPLE!!!!

To see a World in a Grain of Sand,
And a Heaven in a Wild Flower,
Hold Infinity in the palm of your hand,
And Eternity in an hour

~ Siddhartha Guatama, founder of Buddhism

..............and thats all I have to say about that........mmyep.......*puff*......

 

[tukano_2]

heres the reason though, that stories as extreme and miliagros's sometimes bother me, as many people say, non consensual tickling is the equivilent to the tickle fetishes rape. but, yet people support and love stories of it. yet, do people support stories of rape? i kno i dont. do people write stories about people gettin brutaly rapped and tormented in the process? i kno that quite a few people would consider that sick, demented and wrong, but if people consider non consensual tickling the same as rape. why dont they consider those stories the same? that is something i just dont get.

There is a fundamental element in this discussion that has not yet been considered: if we refer to Milagros' stories, we must remember that Milagros is a ticklee, therefore when writing those stories he was very probably imagining himself as the victim, getting amusement and excitement identifying himself with the poor helpless captive. Now, I'm sure he had some heavy real time experiences as a ticklee/submissive, he wrote about that also, but I strongly doubt that he has any intention of being reduced to a lifetime bound slave, tortured as depicted in his stories.
That doesn't mean that if he was a tickler and wrote stories about him kidnapping and tickle-torturing and spanking women for a lifetime, that would have been to consider as an incitation to act like that in real life, but him being a ticklee and writing those stories let us more clearly see that they are just FANTASY. He might have arranged scenarios like those in his real life tickle sessions, but all the non consensual atmosphere was just simulated, since he was more than willing to be put in those predicaments, and as soon as the session was over, he returned to be a free citizien, just, I suppose, with a big wide smile over his face 🙂
I've also read */F stories written by women about extreme non consensual tickling, and I have the occasion to chat with one of them: I can assure you she wouldn't be glad to undergo what the ticklees in her stories do. But likes it if simulated. And stories are simulations, moreover much safer than anything done for real.

Rape similar to non consensual tickling? Probably, but there are also women who fantasize about being raped, I've known some, like to daydream about that and simulate that with their partner (done that myself too, on her suggestion), but again, not the slightest intention of getting raped in real life.

Sexual fantasies tend to be just like that, extreme and paradoxal, because they have to do with symbols, not with rationalization, just like dreams.

It would be nice to hear Milagros' comment on the matter.

That was a really great post, Tukano...very well written! How I wish I had the same way with words.

Wow, I'm always worried not to be able to express myself when I write in English, so that's a great compliment for me! Thank you so much 🙂

 

[tukano_2]

...
I used to know a girl, a close but troubled friend of mine whos fantasy was to be "attacked" and "raped" by someone.
...
What I'm saying is if there are those who have a "rape fetish" than who is to say there arent those ticklees among us who have a similar case only with non consentual tickling?
...

I didn't read your post in time and just wrote practically the same thing 🙂 I fully agree.

 

[nessonite1]

I'm always worried not to be able to express myself when I write in English, so that's a great compliment for me! Thank you so much 🙂

I saw your country of origin and to be quite honest I assumed English was your first language and that you moved to Italy later in life.

I've also read */F stories written by women about extreme non consensual tickling, and I have the occasion to chat with one of them: I can assure you she wouldn't be glad to undergo what the ticklees in her stories do. But likes it if simulated. And stories are simulations, moreover much safer than anything done for real.

This is, in essense, what I have been attempting to say myself. A simulated non-consensual environment is something I find to be very apealing. BUT there arent manypeople I'd be willing to do it with. It takes a very special combination of trust and familiarity. If I don't know the person super-well (ie best friend, husband) then even if I trust them my mind wouldnt be able to slip into that fantasy world and have it be believable. That's just me anyway.

Rape similar to non consensual tickling? Probably, but there are also women who fantasize about being raped, I've known some, like to daydream about that and simulate that with their partner (done that myself too, on her suggestion), but again, not the slightest intention of getting raped in real life.

This is also something that I can relate to (to a much lesser degree). At the risk of getting WAY more personal than anyone would like me to be, but in order to establish my point and to back up Tukano, when in bed withmyhusband (it DOES happen sometimes!) I do sometimes like to fantasize that I am being dominated.Not raped, per se, but more like being forced upon. I guess that makes me strange or abnormal...but then...that doesnt really bother me anymore. 😉

 

[FeatherFeet]

there are two types of non consensual tickling .....consensual-non consensual tickling where it is just sort of a turn on/game to act like it is against their will when in fact it totally is wanted, or the real form of non consensual when the victim truley does not want it at all. the second is what i find similar to rape.