'Twas the night... huge mainstream post

TickleChgo · Dec 24, 2004

Mimi · Dec 24, 2004

http://www.ticklingforum.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=48961

TickleChgo · Dec 24, 2004

Well, there’s holiday spirit for you!

I posted a sleigh-load of mainstream pics in this thread.

With one exception, which I thought was quite innocent, I took care to avoid posting photos of underage, or questionably underage, subjects (i.e., looking at other photos in the relevant album).

Shortly after posting these pics, my post was edited. I noticed that the one questionable pic was removed, and I understand that. However, I am informed that a total of 20 pics were unceremoniously removed from my post with nothing more than a reply with link to the message regarding rules of mainstream posting. I was later informed that the moderator thought these other pics were “quite questionable.”

If anyone would like to see the original unedited post, you can e-mail me at [email protected], or send me a pm, and I will send it to you.

This sure will encourage me to spend the time to collect all those photos, to go through them to make sure they are not “questionable”, to label and post them.

Bah humbug!!

Mimi · Dec 24, 2004

IMAGES RULES: "Many of the pics posted in mainstream sites/albums are of people who are underage. We remind everyone that this is not something that is to be included in listings posted here. Not only is it illegal to have underage images here, but we also do not condone this ourselves.

This having been said, when compiling and posting mainstream image lists, please refrain from using any images that are even close to appearing as having underage individuals in them. If you are uncertain of whether an image should be included or not, we suggest you opt for the latter to avoid any difficulties."

You blatantly ignored these rules and violated them. I am sorry you spent so long gathering them, but you knew pictures containing minors or even possibly resembling minors were not allowed. Yet you chose to take the risk and post pictures that contained minors anyway...including toddlers and grade school children.

The moderators on this board have enough work to do already without having to babysit posts like this one and spend hours on end editing out links that should never have been included in the post in the first place. That is why the rules are in place. If you can not obey the rules, you will lose your access to the forum so that we no longer have to trouble ourselves with worrying over them being ignored or violated again.

Myriads · Dec 24, 2004

We appreciate the time that you place into gathering the images for reposting here. No questions about that. You have always been a top line contributer and a valued member. And I understand that annoyance in having your post edited.

That said, staff spent well over an hour going over the links above and 20 of them were in violation of our age rules. This was a measurable number of the total. Way way too many.

We walk a fine line when it comes to minor content on this forum. In the eyes of the world we are seen as a sexual content forum. And because of that we have to take great care when presenting images of children engaged in acts that the majority of our membership sees as a sexual activity. It's an invitation to trouble.

What we ask is that when you create these posts is to make sure that minors are not in the images. About three months back I had to deal with one image owner who forwarded us on to authorities when they saw a massive number of hits coming from the forum to see thier twelve year old being tickled. I spent a good bit of time putting that incident out. Things like this can be forum killers. And I'd hate to loose this place over a misunderstanding between a person who posted what to them is an innocent image, and our community.

Thanks!
Myriads

Armpit_licker · Dec 24, 2004

I believe I was one of the first to view TickleChgo pics when he first posted them. It took me about 10 minutes to view them all. I saw a few "questionable" pics and one or two that should of been removed..... However, some of the ones that were removed how can you honestly say that the person is "underage"??? In many states(including MO, where I'm from) the underage age is 17. Many of the pics that were removed looked like 17-19 year old girls tickling each other, and it was harmless tickling. None of them were nude or tickling in private places, just a quick poke on the side or what not.

I'm not going to get involved in this but TickleChgo HAS contributed a lot as Myriads already stated. I enjoy his mainstream post and I know many others appreciate it as well. I will say if I took the time to contribute all these nice tickling pics to us I would also be a tad bit upset with just a "link to a previous thread" on this topic.... But that is just my humble opinion.

TickleChgo, I hope this doesn't effect you posting pics in the future because that would totally suck and we would lose a great contributer of mainstream never before seen innocent tickling pictures.

TMF Jeff · Dec 24, 2004

Here's my thinking on this:

Once you find a couple of pics of toddlers and kids around the age of twelve, you become a lot more likely to err on the side of extreme caution.

As for the shortness of the original reply, Obviously I can't speak for mimi, but I think after she had spent all the time it takes to view and consider this many pictures, she probably was tired of dealing with it and didn't feel that anything she said at that point would be productive. I know that's how I would have felt.

Mimi · Dec 25, 2004

The shortness of my original reply to this thread, in which I only posted a link to the sticky that cleary addresses the edit job I did, was in fact because I was quite upset with having to devote that much time to cleaning a thread in which the poster knew was crossing the lines to begin with. I have always liked and respected TC, and did not want to post a verbal reply in the heat of annoyance and anger out of that respect for him. When he chose to make this a public issue of "those mean old moderators removed my links for no reason", I caved in and posted a full verbal reply that fully explained my original actions here.

But despite my attempts to my calm and fair and non-confrontational, I still somehow get made out to be the evil doer here. I fail to see how that is fair or even acceptable.

Mimi

venray · Dec 25, 2004

This area has been "troublesome" at best on many occasions. I spent many hours as a mod going through the hundreds of links of this type posted by many. I had to delete quite a few of them at that time because of questionable content.

I determined what was questionable by viewing other pics from the same source. Most webshots links give you the option to return to the gallery from whence the posted link came.

On many occasions it was obvious that the pictures were of minors as the gallery titles were "15'th birthday" or something similar. I used to delete those links no questions asked.

It is better to err on the side of caution when posting from mainstream sources. If I could not verify that the picture posted was of someone 18 or older (legal age of ALL adult websites) then I would indeed pull the link.

It is much easier for the originator of the post to verify age than it is for a mod to have to go back through 20-40 links and try to do the same after the post has been made.

So please fellow posters, have a little consideration in what is chosen to be shared here within the forum.

It is in ALL of our best interests......

Ray

TickleChgo · Dec 25, 2004

Pretty harsh, Mimi (and I notice that you have toned down the rhetoric in your original post a couple of times).

I thought we had some mutual respect for each other.

What offended me here was not the fact that my post was edited and that pics were deleted. Perhaps I am a bit naïve and innocent in thinking there is nothing wrong with posting a pic of a kid reaching up to tickle his mommy’s pregnant tummy, or a kid tickling his mom’s foot, however, I understand the problems you guys face and do not take issue that those pics were deleted.

What offended me was the way this was handled. I'm sure you thought you handled it in an appropriate manner, Mimi, by simply deleting the pics and posting the link, since you probably could have just revoked my so-called access, as you threatened more than once. But, for what its worth, if you had said either in your reply or a pm something like, "Nice post, Andy, but I had to remove a few...", or, “Sorry, TC, I had to delete some pics because of the rule…”, I would not have been so put off. I'm not looking for kid gloves here, just some courtesy. (I am not even going to go into how offended I was by your subsequent post practically calling me a pedophile.)

As Armpit_licker above noted, imagine how I felt after spending many hours putting together what I thought was a very nice “Happy Holidays” post, when the first reply is a link to a rule indicating that my post was edited. Now I know how Howard Stern must feel.

I am sorry that it has taken the moderators so many hours to pour over my posts. Know, though, that for every hour you spend reviewing my posts, it takes me at least three to put them together (ToYou, City of Mica and TkRexx can attest to the time it takes to collect these mainstream posts). If it is such a trouble and annoyance to go over posts like mine, perhaps it is time to stop serving as a moderator. While I know that you moderators are volunteers, it is a duty you have assumed. I, on the other hand, have no such duties to devote hours creating posts for this forum, and did so merely to share with the other members.

Don't worry – I’ll save all of us some time - I won't be troubling you having to babysit my posts again any time soon.

TklDuo-Ann · Dec 25, 2004

Having had to do this kind of editting on many occassions myself, I've gotta say that everyone is a little hot in this thread. Perhaps it's because time had to be taken out of Christmas eve with family? Perhaps it's the many stresses thrown at us by the commercialization of the season? Who knows?

In the end what it comes down to is observing the few simple rules we have governing the forums existence. The underage rule is one that, when violated, nearly always brings heat down on us. Are we hypervigilant as a result? Sure, we are. Do we end up stepping on toes at times when we need to edit? Unfortunately, yes. Nobody is accusing you of being a pedophile or anything of the sort. We simply ask that people respect our position in having to edit out things that put the forum at risk.

We're human and just as prone to mistakes and emotional termoil as anyone else. But, that doesn't mean that we don't like/respect the poster. Your effort to provide folks with a bit of holiday cheer is much appreciated. All we ask is that more care be taken by people (You aren't the only one who does this.) in posting things. That's all.

Let's all take some time to settle down and think about what's happening here. I'm sure we'll see the light in the end.

Ann

(If you feel like talking this out, I'm on AIM - TklDuo)

Mimi · Dec 25, 2004

*sigh* This is getting us nowhere.

I apologize for handling this the way I did. I have always liked you, TC, and I chose not to reply to you immediately after doing the edit job because I was annoyed with having to clean up so many links to minors, and I did NOT want to say something that would jeapordize our respect for one another. Turns out that my decision to be short in my reply was what offended you. But you gotta understand I did so because I WAS angry and I didn't want to say something like I did in the full reply I made after you posted your disgust with the edit. I'm sorry my lack of explanation upset you, but I only did so to attempt to keep the peace...NOT to be an ass.

I know you're not a pedophile, and I was not trying to insinuate you were. I was trying to drive the point home that we do not allow the posting of images with minors because we could legally get in trouble for pedophilic material. To you, and many others on the forum images such as that are innocent. But in the eyes of the law, this is an adult website, and any minor content on it (or even questionably minor) can be cause for a lawsuit and/or criminal charges. I know you guys just want to give to the community, and we all sincerely appreciate the time and effort you put into gathering these images for the members, but we have to stress how important it is that you take the extra precaution to post NOTHING with anyone even remotely resembling a minor. By doing so you save your hard work from being edited and destroyed, and you save us moderators the work of having to check every single image and make sure none of them contain questionably aged subjects. Then we are all happy.

Again I'm sorry for getting angry and not giving you the full explanation you sought immediately upon finishing the edit. It was not very professional of me as a moderator. But I AM only human. We ALL let the stress get the better of us sometimes and lose our tempers. Being the holiday season simply means our fuses are even shorter than usual due to the stress that comes with this time of year.

I'm willing to admit I handled this wrong and apologize for my lack of professionalism, if you are willing to promise to be more careful with posting mainstream images in the future and help us to avoid any legal investigations. Deal?

Mimi

Darkknight · Dec 25, 2004

I hear ya Andy.

DK

TickleChgo · Dec 26, 2004

Mimi - apology accepted, and thank you.

I, in turn, am sorry for posting pics that I knew had minors in them, such as the pic of the kid tickling her mom’s foot, and the one of the kid tickling his mom’s pregnant tummy. Of course, I knew there were minors in them, but they just struck me as *so* innocent, that I did not really see them as a problem. My thinking at the time was as follows: I thought these were innocent and acceptable, but, if they do not meet the standards of the TMF, a moderator will edit them. I guess I was wrong to subject these to your judgment in the first place, and I will not do that again.

The problem, though, lies with the other pics that were deleted. When I thought a picture was questionable, I *did* take the time to check to see if the subjects were acceptable, by looking at the full albums, etc. It is obvious, though, that I failed in trying to figure out what was acceptable for this board. I am concerned that my gauge for judging these photos is not aligned with the moderators for this board (and, from what I am hearing, this may be a broader issue). This is the reason why I will still not be posting any mainstream pics again any time soon. I never wanted to cause such a stir with my post (Geez, my intentions were just the opposite – to send some nice holiday cheer), and for that I also apologize; and, I do not want to jeopardize this board or get anyone in trouble in the future.

One other thing that I think bears repeating, and I say this not meaning any offense whatsoever. If you got soooo angry and annoyed in editing my post, Mimi, maybe you really should think about stepping down as a moderator. Perhaps it is the stress of the holidays, as several have alluded (not in my case, though – except for this, holidays are great), but if performing your moderator duties causes such a reaction, you can’t be performing your duties in a proper manner (witness this whole thing where you were so angry you could not reply to me), and it can’t be healthy for you.

TickleChgo · Dec 28, 2004

I keep saying to myself that my last post to this thread was indeed my last post to this thread, however, Max Speer’s farewell message and ensuing thread ( http://www.ticklingforum.com/showthread.php?threadid=53165&perpage=15&pagenumber=1 ) has made me realize that some clarification is needed here. I also find myself in the most uncomfortable position of being aligned, to a certain extent, the posting of materials that include underage subjects. However, I feel the need to somehow vindicate myself here.

I admit that I can’t recall ever checking the “TMF Rules And Announcements” before, but this whole brouhaha caused me to check the rule on “Posts involving Minors.” After review of this rule, I am not sure that I did anything wrong in the first place. Either that, or the rules applicable to this particular “Images” forum are different and more strict.

The “Posts involving Minors” rule in the “TMF Rules And Announcements” states as follows:

“We don't allow posts that involve any form of images or stories of an adult involved in tickling a minor. Period. Any that we find will be removed.

Posts that involve minors tickling minors will be evaluated on a case by case basis depending upon context.”

The “sticky” post for this Images forum states “please refrain from using any images that are even close to appearing as having underage individuals in them.”

As I have said above, I knowingly posted what I thought were innocent and benign pics of a kid tickling her mom’s foot and another of kid tickling his mom’s pregnant tummy. Now, I have *not* gone through my original post to figure out what the other 18 pics were that were deleted, but I am sure that most if not all of them were, at most, minors tickling other minors. I do not believe that I posted any pics of adults tickling minors, so either it appears that I did not violate the “Posts involving Minors” rule in the “TMF Rules And Announcements”, or the rules in the Images forum are stricter.

So, I am sitting here thinking - Why am I writing all of this which seems to defend posting of underage subjects, when, in fact, I agree with all that has been said about the evils of posting materials with minors, and I most certainly agree with the moderators that they cannot tolerate a situation where this causes a problem with the actual subject of the photo or their parents.

Aside from somehow vindicating my original post (and somehow addressing the tremendous guilt I am feeling for causing such a furor and for all I have heard since about the trouble my mainstream posts have caused), I guess the reason for this post is to request clarification on the rules here to make it clear what is and is not permitted. This can only benefit all here, can help the whole minor issue, and can help people posting mainstream pics in the future to follow the rules.

maniactickler · Dec 28, 2004

I just think this world is getting out of hand with political correctness.

rajee · Dec 28, 2004

😀 Excellent links/finds! 😀

Sultrybrunette · Dec 28, 2004

I do not usually post in the forum but since I have heard about this I wanted to see what was up. (GR violations removed) Anyone that had any common sense would not even think of posting any kind of kids pictures on here period, no matter how "innocent" they may seem. I think Mimi did exactly the right thing and I back her up 100 percent. Its too bad that someone that does something which is deliberately against the rules of the forum should get so bent out of shape, instead of being a man and accepting what he did was wrong. (GR violations removed) Mimi hon, you keep up the good work!

TklDuo-Ann · Dec 28, 2004

Woooooahhhh! Hang on everyone. Andy posted some pictures that were not appropriate according to our rules. Unfortunately, those rules say two different things in different places. He did NOT deliberately break the rules. WE are as much at fault as he is in this. But, even if that were not the case, this doesn't make him a bad person or one we should start slamming around. Any further personal attacks will be dealt with accordingly.

Ann

venray · Dec 28, 2004

The sticky in the image forum was added after trouble occurred from a link that was posted here. It was made a little more strict than the original in order to help us to avoid further trouble and possible shutdown.

The problem with sticky posts is that they are rarely read by a majority of posters 😉 and so are actually easy to miss.

I know that Andy would NEVER break the rules on purpose, nor post anything that he would consider anything but harmless fun, so let's all take a step back here and a deep breath before saying things that we really dont mean.

Ray

TklDuo-Ann · Dec 29, 2004

Thread closed because of repeated attacks. Enough!

'Twas the night... huge mainstream post

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