two female roommates,i tickle their feet. thoughts.

[PurpleStyle]

Since we're in agreement and you've destroyed my rebuttal at every pass without me realizing it, I accept your victory.

Corrected for truth.

 

[rhiannon]

Oh, I see. So you're not trying to convince anybody that what they are doing is wrong? Because if you're not, you should know that it's really REALLY coming off like you are.

Just FYI.

Just FYI: I couldn't care less! 🙂

Not if she was reasonable. What you're describing here is a girl who doesn't mind being tickled until she finds out he likes it more than she thought he did. Does that seem reasonable to you?

Just because you don't find it reasonable doesn't mean it isn't reasonable. If a girl doesn't want to be used for sexual gratification without her being aware of it, then maybe her feelings should just be respected.

Is it reasonable to be bothered by an activity simply because one of the participants "likes it too much?"

Yes, it is reasonable! I've discussed this today with a guy who gets off on watching women in dressing rooms - which is clearly illegal! - and even he thinks it's over the top if touching is involved (I was surprised...I thought he'd say it's okay as long as the involved person doesn't know since that is what he thinks about the dressing room thing!)

There are one or two who seem to feel that intent alone is enough to magically transform an activity from nonsexual to sexual

If the person doing it is having a boner, it is sexual. No transformation involved!

If you think it's wrong, then don't do it. Those who agree with rhiannon that it's wrong, don't do it. The rest of you who have no moral issues with it, keep on doing it as much as you like.

If you don't like to read what I have to say, don't read it, how about that? 🙂 I am aware that people won't stop doing it just because others think it's wrong. I don't stop doing things that I do and others think are wrong either. But as long as I enjoy voicing my opinion, I voice my opinion.

Respect is a two-way street rhiannon. How can a guy respect a girl who tries to police his inner thoughts and desires? What kind of "friend" would say, "It's okay for you to tickle me unless you like it too much?"

Well, what kind of friend would use another friend for their sexual gratification? I wouldn't be interested in being friends with a person who is that sneaky! Want to be friends with benefits, at least let me know please!!

Me, I'll respect my friends feelings as long as those feelings don't involve what goes on in my head.

It's not about what goes on in your head, it's about what's going on in your pants while you touch them!

 

[proud2tickle]

its always about what its going on in ur head.... even our legal system punishes people based off of what there thoughts were at the time of commiting the crime. thus 1st and second degree and even third degree. you can also be cleared if u can prove you mental couldnt understand at the time.

and the dressing room thing is complete different like u said its illegal and creepy.... this isnt. its human interaction.

 

[Wolf]

So, the way to deal with the possible creepy factor of indulging your sexual fetish with friends (without their knowledge that you're "getting a charge" out of the activity) is to simply deny that you have those feelings in the first place.

Brilliant!

 

[smokinj]

Well, what kind of friend would use another friend for their sexual gratification? I wouldn't be interested in being friends with a person who is that sneaky! Want to be friends with benefits, at least let me know please!!

Yeah right, so you can completely overreact? No thanks. I think the less you know, the better. As far as you know, there is no sexual gratification.

 

[coldneck]

Hugs are hugs UNLESS you have a hug fetish. Tickling is just tickling UNLESS you have a tickling fetish.

So tickling is OK, as long as it doesn't arouse you?!

This is highly illogical, Captain.

Makes me wonder what most of us are doing here.

I also have to question why the "moral minority" is force-feeding us their version of "ethical".

Of all the places to take a stand against tickling, I would think the TMF would be the last.

 

[coldneck]

It amazes me that some guys here don't want to see the problem!

And these scenarios are no different from tickling a woman who has no idea that it is sexual to the person who does the tickling!

That sheep shaking her ass at me is giving me a major rager!

Oops! I just made a big sticky mess.

Thought you should know.

 

[rhiannon]

Yeah right, so you can completely overreact? No thanks. I think the less you know, the better. As far as you know, there is no sexual gratification.

Well, to you it's an overreaction, to me that kind of behavior is creepy and nothing that I'd want in a friend. It would be awkward to have a friend that gets his jollies out of me. No thanks!

That sheep shaking her ass at me is giving me a major rager!

Oops! I just made a big sticky mess.

Thought you should know.

Interesting fetish! But what does it have to do with anything?

 

[DontAskJusTckle]

Check this out. Here is a quote from me verbatum...

Since we're in agreement and you've offered no rebuttal, I accept your concession.

Then...

PurpleStyle's deliberate and incredibly immature MISQUOTE of DontAskJusTckle
Since we're in agreement and you've destroyed my rebuttal at every pass without me realizing it, I accept your victory.

Corrected for truth.

Destroyed my rebuttal at every pass? You didn't even respond to any of them. Here, let me show you...

PurpleStyle
That's a poor analogy, because if you didn't have a thing for men, then you have no reason to go around masturbating them in the first place.

DontAskJusTckle
That only makes it an unlikely happenstance, not one that falls outside the realm of possibility. The point of my analogy has nothing to do with the likelihood of it's actual occurrence. It's simply a hypothetical. If the situation happened the way I described for whatever reason, the results would would be as I said, and the conclusions I drew are valid.

PurpleStyle
(no reply)

PurpleStyle
My analogy may not be perfect either, but no analogy is. That's the point of analogies; which makes it even more absurd that I have to point this out to you.

DontAskJusTckle
The point of analogies is that no analogy is perfect?? Were you high when you wrote that?

PurpleStyle
(stunned silence)

PurpleStyle
So, let's try going in another direction with it, by asking:

Would you consider it sexual activity when a male doctor physically examines your genitals/anus?

I'm going to go ahead and speculate that your answer would be "no, of course not, because the doctor has no sexual intent". In this context, it is indeed the intent behind the act that matters, not the act itself.

DontAskJusTckle
Wrong again. A physical examination of the the genitals by a doctor is not a sexual act. Even if the doctor gets off on it and became a doctor only because he gets aroused by medically examining genitalia, it's not a sexual act. It's an established medical procedure. So once again, it has nothing to do with intent. The activity itself is either sexual, or it isn't. In the case of the doctor, and in the case with tickling, they are not sexual activities.

PurpleStyle
(crickets chirping)

Yeah, Purps. You really "destroyed" me with that crippling silence of yours! My crystal ball is showing me yet another classic PurpleStyle Padded Scorecard in my near future!

And...moving right along...

rhiannon
And that's exactly why most people are not the slightest little bit suspicious that someone is getting their jollies off by tickling them. Which is exactly what I think is wrong!

DAJT
Okay, now we're getting somewhere. Instead of saying "which is exactly what is wrong" you said, "which is exactly what I THINK is wrong."

I have no problem with you thinking it's wrong. We all have a right and I dare say a responsibility to judge right and wrong for ourselves. But up until now, that's not what you've been doing. You've been making absolute statements. "It's wrong. It's immoral." Statements which unless otherwise disclaimed as personal opinion apply to everybody by default. If you think it's wrong, then don't do it. Anybody else who thinks it's wrong shouldn't do it. But when you jump into every thread of this nature to proclaim this behavior as wrong, you adopt a posture of judgmental holier-than-thou sanctimony.

rhiannon
In that case I guess I have to apologize - maybe I worded myself wrong. Of course I can't make a moral statement for everybody! But still I'd like to discuss WHY I believe it's morally wrong...

DAJT
...in every thread of this topic, it seems. That's what I still don't get. You seem to have some stake in this that goes far beyond a simple discussion or an exchange of ideas. You admitted that you resort to extreme comparisons because otherwise, people "don't listen." I'll ask once again, why is it so important to get them to listen? Why the urgency?

rhiannon
Because discussions are only fun if people participate.

DAJT
Oh, I see. So you're not trying to convince anybody that what they are doing is wrong? Because if you're not, you should know that it's really REALLY coming off like you are.

Just FYI.

rhiannon
Just FYI: I couldn't care less! 🙂

Most people would care about appearing hypocritical and judgmental. Congratulations on your refusal to acknowledge it.

Just because you don't find it reasonable doesn't mean it isn't reasonable. If a girl doesn't want to be used for sexual gratification without her being aware of it, then maybe her feelings should just be respected.

Maybe that's too great an expectation. If she doesn't like being tickled maybe she should make that clear, if not before, then certainly after.

Yes, it is reasonable! I've discussed this today with a guy who gets off on watching women in dressing rooms - which is clearly illegal! - and even he thinks it's over the top if touching is involved (I was surprised...I thought he'd say it's okay as long as the involved person doesn't know since that is what he thinks about the dressing room thing!)

No, it isn't reasonable! I've discussed this today with a girl who believes that guys should be more forthcoming about their feelings, which is clearly presumptuous! - and even she thinks it's over the top to expect a guy to spill his guts about what he finds erotic. (I was surprised...I thought she'd want that since that is what she thinks about feelings in general!)

If the person doing it is having a boner, it is sexual. No transformation involved!

Sure, if he's tickling her WITH his boner! Besides, if he's sporting a boner, won't that let the cat out of the bag, so to speak? Won't she know he gets off on it? Doesn't that render your point of her not knowing kind of moot? Isn't this entire discussion predicated on the assumption she doesn't know of his arousal?

But as long as I enjoy voicing my opinion, I voice my opinion.

Yes you do. And in your zeal to "voice your opinion" you often voice it as though it were fact and not just opinion.

Well, what kind of friend would use another friend for their sexual gratification?

One who finds their friend attractive and desirable, obviously. There's certainly no crime in that.

I wouldn't be interested in being friends with a person who is that sneaky! Want to be friends with benefits, at least let me know please!!

I wouldn't be interested in being friends with a person who wants to police the activities that I privately find arousing. If you want to be my conscience, at least let me know please!!

It's not about what goes on in your head, it's about what's going on in your pants while you touch them!

You don't believe that sexual arousal occurs in a person's head? Seriously??

So, the way to deal with the possible creepy factor of indulging your sexual fetish with friends (without their knowledge that you're "getting a charge" out of the activity) is to simply deny that you have those feelings in the first place.

Not at all. The way to deal with the possible perception of creepiness is to not be creepy in the approach. Among other things, that includes keeping quiet about his fetish, and keeping his dick in his pants. There's no need to deny anything as long as he acts cool and natural about it.

 

[Wolf]

Not at all. The way to deal with the possible perception of creepiness is to not be creepy in the approach. Among other things, that includes keeping quiet about his fetish, and keeping his dick in his pants. There's no need to deny anything as long as he acts cool and natural about it.

Hmm. Don't concur.
I'm all for the concept of self-restraint, but I believe that subjecting someone else to an action that turns you on, regardless of whether you let on that you're getting turned on, is taking advantage of them, in a way. Acting 'cool and natural' is just masking any arousal form the act. I'm not saying it's a felonious act; and there are a lot creepier things that can go on. I'm saying a guy needs to take responsibility for his own hard-on. He doesn't have to be ashamed, or even NOT do what he's enjoying. He just needs to acknowledge that it means something different to him than the average "vanilla" person.

I've known a lot of women who've told me that tickling had been used by "vanilla" friends as an convenient excuse to cop a feel; so, it works both ways, as it were.

Look, I'm not saying the OP is a creep, by any stretch of the imagination. I'm saying he needs to be careful to not seem or become creepy.

 

[smokinj]

Hmm. Don't concur.
I'm all for the concept of self-restraint, but I believe that subjecting someone else to an action that turns you on, regardless of whether you let on that you're getting turned on, is taking advantage of them, in a way. Acting 'cool and natural' is just masking any arousal form the act. I'm not saying it's a felonious act; and there are a lot creepier things that can go on. I'm saying a guy needs to take responsibility for his own hard-on. He doesn't have to be ashamed, or even NOT do what he's enjoying. He just needs to acknowledge that it means something different to him than the average "vanilla" person.

I've known a lot of women who've told me that tickling had been used by "vanilla" friends as an convenient excuse to cop a feel; so, it works both ways, as it were.

Look, I'm not saying the OP is a creep, by any stretch of the imagination. I'm saying he needs to be careful to not seem or become creepy.

Exactly, why do you need to know what is going on inside my head, then claim to not be the 'morality police'? Who cares what he thinks as long as it stays playful, harmless tickling. Maybe you'd like to stand at the foot of his bed and scream at him, 'you better not be thinking of me! PERVERT!!' while he whacks off. Thats what its like.

 

[coldneck]

Interesting fetish! But what does it have to do with anything?

Just making you aware of what's going on around you.

Boom! Baby!

 

[primetime]

So let me get this straight. According to some posters in this topic, if a person tickles another person because it sexually arouses them, and does not tell the "lee", then that person is creepy?

So what you're saying is, all the people who find tickling sexual can not and never should tickle ANYONE unless they are in some kind of romantic relationship with the person they want to tickle? You have to confess your arousal from tickling BEFORE you tickle them as well?

That's basically what is being said.... I can't agree with that mindset. Like I mentioned before, just because you don't tell them you're aroused by tickling doesn't mean you think it's wrong, you just may be embarrassed by telling them your innermost feelings.

 

[coldneck]

Hahahaha!
That post was greatness!
Lakers or not

 

[Jagermeistered]

This is a very cute thread...

 

[GodlessTickler]

I can see points on both sides here... but I think what it real depends on what kind of axioms you are using when it comes to your ethics.

I mean there are several levels here and most of them are being glossed over as if obvious, but they are not.

For example... one level is that people essentially have a problem with someone "getting off" on someone without them knowing it. Now many people who are actors say... hetrosexual male actors, are mastribated too by gay men. They may not like it, and particuarly when they first started they did not think of it. But none the less it happens.

Now some in this thread would say "yes but they know they are in the public eye" but we are talking about "allowing something" and clearly even if these straight actors expressly forbid any homosexual to ever thing sexual thoughts about them, they have no right to control the thoughts of others.

So then there is the reason that I say I can see both sides... the touching issue. On the one hand we would say that no one should be physically used for gratification against there will. However I point out again that it isnt expressly against their will.
In the case of the peeping tom comparision there is actually a greater issue with violation of privacy, than the thought process. I mean if you were looking in dressing rooms for a compleatly non sexual reason... say your a transvestite and you wanted to see what panties might make you look more feminine... thats still against the law because those women have a right to expect privacy in the dressing room.

Besides what is legal and illegal is a terrible judge of morality because it often fails on both ends.

So a large part of it comes down to the question is there something ETHICALLY worse about getting off on someone without their knowladge or consent if it involves touching them. And that is a tricky question to me, because I will give you a counter example in a sense. We do not think child porn is ok, as long as you don't touch the children. And if it is purely the sexual nature of the act, then we are back to the ethical issue of jerking off to the movie star.

The problem with this thread as so many of its kind, is that everyone likes to try and boil complex ethical and logical thought down to sound bytes cause we live in a catch phrase culture. But complex issues are NEVER that simple.

 

[Wolf]

That high-pitched noise you hear?

Exactly, why do you need to know what is going on inside my head, then claim to not be the 'morality police'? Who cares what he thinks as long as it stays playful, harmless tickling. Maybe you'd like to stand at the foot of his bed and scream at him, 'you better not be thinking of me! PERVERT!!' while he whacks off. Thats what its like.

That was the point of what I said, whizzing over your head.

 

[DontAskJusTckle]

Hmm. Don't concur.
I'm all for the concept of self-restraint, but I believe that subjecting someone else to an action that turns you on, regardless of whether you let on that you're getting turned on, is taking advantage of them, in a way.

That's pretty vague and undefined. What does that mean in terms of harm or foul? For example, if a card counter uses his skill to beat his opponent at card games, he's taking advantage of them. They suffer a loss of money as a result.

But if a guy tickles a woman who's perfectly okay with it, but doesn't know he gets off on it...exactly how does that harm her? What has it cost her?

Acting 'cool and natural' is just masking any arousal form the act. I'm not saying it's a felonious act; and there are a lot creepier things that can go on. I'm saying a guy needs to take responsibility for his own hard-on. He doesn't have to be ashamed, or even NOT do what he's enjoying. He just needs to acknowledge that it means something different to him than the average "vanilla" person.

I have two questions to this. First, to whom must he acknowledge that it means something different to him? Who's business is it besides his own if he holds a special meaning to the tickling?

The second question is why must it be acknowledged? Where's the harm in just keeping a lid on what floats one's boat? You say "masking" as though it's deceitful, but the truth is we all wear masks...metaphorically speaking. I don't always put on a frown when somebody annoys me. I don't always smile when I think something is funny, and I very seldom if ever tell the woman on the street whose ass I'm scoping that "I'm going to have sex with you tonight whether you're there or not!"

In my opinion, discretion is far less creepy than TMI.

 

[rhiannon]

even she thinks it's over the top to expect a guy to spill his guts about what he finds erotic.

How often do I have to repeat that I do not expect every guy to come up to me and spill his guts about what he finds erotic? I just expect him not to do anything to me that he finds erotic if he knows that I have no erotic interest in him! He can think whatever he wants about me, but please - no touching with sexual interest in his mind!

I admit though that I would probably not even let a guy touch me if I didn't find him at least a little sexually interesting. I don't know if that goes for everybody though!

Sure, if he's tickling her WITH his boner! Besides, if he's sporting a boner, won't that let the cat out of the bag, so to speak? Won't she know he gets off on it? Doesn't that render your point of her not knowing kind of moot? Isn't this entire discussion predicated on the assumption she doesn't know of his arousal?

Not every guy wears pants where the tent is visible right away! 🙂

Yes you do. And in your zeal to "voice your opinion" you often voice it as though it were fact and not just opinion.

Yeah, that makes it more fun to discuss! 🙂 When you start out with opinions, too many people are like "Well, that's your's and that's mine, let's agree to disagree!" Booooooooriiiiiiiiiiiiing! 🙂

If you want to be my conscience, at least let me know please!!

Oh, yes, please, can I? 🙂 I'll even do the "Give a little whistle" song for you! 😀

You don't believe that sexual arousal occurs in a person's head? Seriously??

With most guys I've dealt with, the dick knew that there was sexual arousal occuring before the brain was quite sure about it! But that's just my experience, maybe it changes with age!

Among other things, that includes keeping quiet about his fetish, and keeping his dick in his pants. There's no need to deny anything as long as he acts cool and natural about it.

IMHO, this is the definition of being sneaky!

I'm all for the concept of self-restraint, but I believe that subjecting someone else to an action that turns you on, regardless of whether you let on that you're getting turned on, is taking advantage of them, in a way. Acting 'cool and natural' is just masking any arousal form the act. I'm not saying it's a felonious act; and there are a lot creepier things that can go on. I'm saying a guy needs to take responsibility for his own hard-on. He doesn't have to be ashamed, or even NOT do what he's enjoying. He just needs to acknowledge that it means something different to him than the average "vanilla" person.

Exactly what I think.

 

[Wolf]

No, no, no, no, no, no, NO...

So let me get this straight. According to some posters in this topic, if a person tickles another person because it sexually arouses them, and does not tell the "lee", then that person is creepy?

So what you're saying is, all the people who find tickling sexual can not and never should tickle ANYONE unless they are in some kind of romantic relationship with the person they want to tickle? You have to confess your arousal from tickling BEFORE you tickle them as well?

That's basically what is being said.... I can't agree with that mindset. Like I mentioned before, just because you don't tell them you're aroused by tickling doesn't mean you think it's wrong, you just may be embarrassed by telling them your innermost feelings.

I'm saying that a person has to be aware of their own motivations to avoid being creepy. Then, it's up to them to decide what's appropriate. That's it.

 

[smokinj]

Hey Mark, are you still out there? Quite a discussion you caused. I hope after all this you realize what a huge colossal mistake it would be to tell these girls your secret. I implore you, do the right thing and STFU about it. Nothing good can come of it! Nothing!

What goes on in your head is NOBODY's business but yours. I think I'm done with this thread. Exactly no one's mind was changed here. Hopefully its given you food for thought if nothing else.

 

[primetime]

I'm saying that a person has to be aware of their own motivations to avoid being creepy. Then, it's up to them to decide what's appropriate. That's it.

My post was directed at you per se... Certain other people in this thread...

I think what everyone has to remember is this guy is doing this with people he KNOWS and has a comfort level with. If he was doing this with strangers, we have a different ball game.

I donj't believe the OP has to admit any of his arousals to his friends. His friends don't seem to mind. There is nothing "creepy" going on. How can it be when they are friends and have a comfort level with each other?

 

[rhiannon]

I donj't believe the OP has to admit any of his arousals to his friends. His friends don't seem to mind. There is nothing "creepy" going on. How can it be when they are friends and have a comfort level with each other?

Remember the story that Mitch told? Some people just feel awkward when people they don't have sexual feelings towards touch them to get arousal out of them.

 

[primetime]

Remember the story that Mitch told? Some people just feel awkward when people they don't have sexual feelings towards touch them to get arousal out of them.

But do you remember the story I told? You act like this happens in EVERY situation. It all depends on the friend getting tickled. The way you act, EVERYONE would be "creeped out" if they were tickled by a friend, and the friend got his arousal.

So, what are you saying Rhiannon? If ANYONE who finds tickling sexual, they are not allowed to tickle anyone UNLESS they are in a romantic relationship and confess their love for tickling before they do it?

 

[rhiannon]

So, what are you saying Rhiannon? If ANYONE who finds tickling sexual, they are not allowed to tickle anyone UNLESS they are in a romantic relationship and confess their love for tickling before they do it?

It depends on the kind of tickling. There is nothing to be said against a playful tickle out of a casual situation, but if you start doing the tickling like you would sit down in front of the computer to watch porn, then I say it's not cool!

Did I express that clear and understandable or do you have no idea how I mean it? 🙂 I feel like I didn't word that too clearly.