Underage Content

[wendynpeter]

Can someone please explain exactly the decision at TT regarding underage content? What exactly is the new policy?

 

[Myriads]

Might this not be better addressed on TT?

Myriads

 

[wendynpeter]

If their policy is to allow underage content, I don't want to be anywhere near that site. I certainly don't want to post there. I'm trying to find out information. If you don't want to post the answer, could you PM me?

 

[Myriads]

I have no answer. I've got my hands full running the TMF to keep a finger on other forums moderation choices. I just assumed that since it was TT's policy, the answer would be best found there. Though as HDS shares moderation duties here and there he might have insight.

Myriads

 

[Bugman]

I wanted my membership on TT deleated,but i understand that cannot be done,i have no idea why.I never was there much anyway,and i dont plan to ever visit that site again.

 

[Cave In]

Hang on, there seriously going to allow underage content on that site? Thats madness, i don't know what reasoning could possibly justify it

 

[His Divine Shadow]

Missed this earlier so I suppose I'll answer it now. The policy as of now is to bar any and all content featuring real minors first off. This has been the policy there for several years (Probably close to as long as it has been here, in terms of banning any and all real minor content (Like mainstream clips featuring real minors that, from what I remember, were allowed in both the TT and TMF for some time back until being killed after trouble)). Let me emphasize it again: NO REAL MINORS ARE PERMITTED AT THE TICKLETHEATER. I "shout," so to speak, because I think there is an impression that we allow such. We do not.

We currently allow depictions of fictional minors with certain restrictions. The reason for this was that the admins (Myself, Mistress Valerie, and Nessonite) have and continue to have the policy that, if it is not illegal under United States legal codes, we would not bar it. As such, we follow the legal codes in banning any sort of fictional/animated minor content featuring the following (This is lifted from the rules sticky in Tickling Art at the TT and was, in turn, taken almost verbatim from United States Code [18 USCS §§ 2251 et seq.]):

--Actual or simulated
---graphic sexual intercourse, including genital-genital, oral-genital, anal-genital, or oral-anal, whether between persons of the same or opposite sex, or lascivious simulated sexual intercourse where the genitals, breast, or pubic area of any person is exhibited;
---bestiality;
---masturbation;
---sadistic or masochistic abuse;
---exhibition of the genitals or pubic area of any person;

--Graphic positions
---meaning that a viewer can observe any part of the genitals or pubic area of any depicted person or animal during any part of the time that the sexually explicit conduct is being depicted;

We also chose to forbid the following after deliberating and deciding that nearly every member (And nearly any outsider who stumbled upon it) would consider it sexual in nature, even though it is not forbidden by US Code:

-Foot Worship
---sniffing, kissing, licking, sucking, and/or lovemaking to or with the feet or foot

Finally, we banned any sort of fictional adult/fictional minor tickling, no matter the way done (adult tickling minor, minor tickling adult).

Please don't take the following the wrong way: I don't want to get into a discussion about why or why not the rules should be like this. First, this is the TMF, not the TT. Second, we discussed this to death at the TT (And threads were made about it here). I don't mean to silence debate but I also don't want to start another long back-and-forth about it.

bugman, the reason we don't delete members is that it leaves then any posts made by that member either gone (If we choose to delete all posts of that member as we delete them, which I imagine you want) or as a Guest. Removed posts leave holes in old discussions, something we do not want as it disrupts old threads (With posters referring to posts that or members who no longer exist). As such, it is our policy not to delete members. I believe the same policy is true here, although I may well be mistaken in that.

 

[Bugman]

Thanks for clearing that up HDS.To the best of my knowledge i never posted on TT anyway.I never had anything against it,i just found that it was not what i was looking for.

Just the debate of allowing any sort of minor content did alarm me,i must admit.In any case,i dont plan to visit TT again,so tis a moot point i suppose....

I want to edit here,just to make this clear.I never had any problems with TT,it was just not a site i cared for.As Ray said,i dont want to be connected to it in anyway,if there is any question about minors period.

 

[drew70]

thanks for the clarification HDS. I find TT's cool and level headed approach to the subject rather refreshing.

 

[wendynpeter]

HDS,

Thanks for the information. This

We currently allow depictions of fictional minors with certain restrictions.

is enough to prompt some of us here at TMF to request that we be removed from TT.

While I understand the "not wanting to leave holes in prior discussions" deal, a new decision of that magnitude deserves some reconsideration of that policy, don't you think?

Would the TT staff be willing to offer a one-time "out" for people who want to be deleted from TT? I think that would be only fair...

 

[venray]

In this case I am inclined to agree...If someone wants his/her membership deleted for whatever reason the request should be granted.....the legal ramifactions may be covered in the policy enacted, but the comfort zone and personal opinion of the member should take precedence over "holes being left in posts".....

 

[Krokus]

thanks for the clarification HDS. I find TT's cool and level headed approach to the subject rather refreshing.

Ditto. Thanks, HDS.

 

[His Divine Shadow]

I will be happy to discuss this. I just don't want to discuss the rules/fictional minors and whether they should be one thing or the other. I imagine you saw how quickly two threads on the subject in the TMF's TK Dis ballooned to massive proportions. That again I'd rather not start.

The reason I say no to that has to do with two things. One is the bit I mentioned earlier to bugman about why we don't remove members. We don't want to start doing it. Many members have left for various reasons in the past and, each time, we tell them simply to clear their profile and then never log back in. The other is that the rules change isn't really a change at all. It has been our policy to allow such as has been mentioned since the inception of the board. It simply has never been necessary until now to note specifically what is allowed and what is not (Due to reports of potential violations and the aforementioned thread on the subject at the TickleTheater). Were we to offer a "one-time" out now, we would have to offer one any other time the rules changed and someone was unsatisfied. Perhaps a cliche answer but truth still rings in it: do something one time and you are bound to do it again in the future. A habit it must not become.

 

[His Divine Shadow]

... sneaking in there several are ...

Glad to be useful, drew and Krokus. 🙂

I don't see any harm in deleting members with no posts, I suppose. I could remove anyone who has no posts made. However, some who wish to be deleted have several hundred posts. Yourself, wendynpeter, have 366. That is going to butcher any number of conversations.

However, I am but one being. I will put forth the question to the other admins and see if they have an opinion one way or the other (Both on deleting those with posts and those with none). This one should not be sole arbiter of opinion without knowing with one hundred percent certainty that the other admins are behind it. An answer I should have in a day or two.

 

[Goodieluver]

... sneaking in there several are ...

Glad to be useful, drew and Krokus. 🙂

I don't see any harm in deleting members with no posts, I suppose. I could remove anyone who has no posts made. However, some who wish to be deleted have several hundred posts. Yourself, wendynpeter, have 366. That is going to butcher any number of conversations.

However, I am but one being. I will put forth the question to the other admins and see if they have an opinion one way or the other (Both on deleting those with posts and those with none). This one should not be sole arbiter of opinion without knowing with one hundred percent certainty that the other admins are behind it. An answer I should have in a day or two.

I simply dont understand how TT has always allowed cartoon tickles and such, yet now someone complained, everyone is wantin to delete their accounts

 

[Bugman]

I simply dont understand how TT has always allowed cartoon tickles and such, yet now someone complained, everyone is wantin to delete their accounts[/QUO

Even though i have been on the menbership rolls for a while,i found out after 2-3 visits TT did not have anything to intrest me.I can find everything i want and more on the TMF,and i do not want anything to do with a site that allows any content involving with minors in any context.Cartoons involving adults do not intrest me either to be honest,within the context of tickling,but that is a diffrent subject.

 

[wendynpeter]

I simply dont understand how TT has always allowed cartoon tickles and such, yet now someone complained, everyone is wantin to delete their accounts

Until now, no one was ever told that this would be the official policy of TT. Many people participated in TT forum discussions, complained to no avail, and left TT because of it.

But this being the official policy decision changes things. There are many of us who do not want to be asscoiated in any way with TT now that the decision is final.

I think that's a reasonable request. As for the "we don't want holes in our discussions" excuse, I'm not buying it. TT simply doesn't want to loose membership numbers because that effects internet revenue. That's fine. The TMF members who want out and are being told no will have to solve the problem another way...

 

[Myriads]

The TMF will not delete member accounts either. And for the same reasons. It pokes holes in discussions and frigs up the database when you delete accounts. In short its annoying to do. So we don't.

I have no desire to see this thread become a bash the TT.

TT has explained their policy. If you dislike it go THERE and debate it, or take it up with HDS in PM.

Myriads

 

[Goodieluver]

Until now, no one was ever told that this would be the official policy of TT. Many people participated in TT forum discussions, complained to no avail, and left TT because of it.

But this being the official policy decision changes things. There are many of us who do not want to be asscoiated in any way with TT now that the decision is final.

I think that's a reasonable request. As for the "we don't want holes in our discussions" excuse, I'm not buying it. TT simply doesn't want to loose membership numbers because that effects internet revenue. That's fine. The TMF members who want out and are being told no will have to solve the problem another way...

True but they have always had cartoon pix up there and they have a very large art forum dedicated to anime tickling and whatnot. Its always been there. My concept is people didnt know of it and didnt care, now because some realize and decided to make it into world war eleven over it which prompted flaming on 2 forums and massive discussion fronts on different forums, people are all for wanting their accounts to be deleted. Hell the main icon of TT is of a cartoon girl being tickled, and last i checked, her DOB isnt on that pic

 

[isabeau]

not to get off subject here, but isn't it possible to delete an account without also deleting their posts? i'm not sure i understand..

 

[Kalamos]

not to get off subject here, but isn't it possible to delete an account without also deleting their posts? i'm not sure i understand..

They want their accounts deleted - as opposed to simply closed - because they don't want their posts to show up.

The point is appearing as if they had never joined the forum to begin with.
And it wouldn't suffice, because they'd have to manually edit each and every quoted post from other users.

...

Seriously, this thread is Bad Communication 101 - how to spread misinformation with careless words.

TTC is not endorsing minor contents, or covering any kind of crime up.
TTC admins are just trying to be fair, and not push rules beyond the actual letter of the law.

Problem is not with TTC admins.
Problem is with individual users.

Users exploiting loopholes in rule wording.
Users chickening out and spreading misinformation.

...

My stance is well known over TTC: in several occasions I suggested a stricter wording of rules regarding toons.
But, for some reason, I always come off as the democracy-hating evil European.

Now, you guys are suggesting the same, and admins replied they won't bend the letter of the law, acting out on fears alone.

You cannot claim admins over TTC are actively endorsing minor contents.
That would either be misinformation or slander.

Given the original poster had a long history of flames with TTC admins and mods, I would be hard-pressed to say it was just a well-meaning misunderstanding.
Could be paranoia speaking.

But if you give him the benefit of doubt, you should give it to HDS and Tickle Theater as well.

...

Besides, you can't edit Google's cache, so if they ever shut TTC down, cops are going to get you anyway, if they really want you.

 

[His Divine Shadow]

True but they have always had cartoon pix up there and they have a very large art forum dedicated to anime tickling and whatnot. Its always been there. My concept is people didnt know of it and didnt care

Correct. It is not a policy change; what has happened is that it was noticed by members who had before not been aware of it. After the massive debate (Leading to a thread closure due to descent into bickering and simple back-and-forth of the same point ad nauseum) we opted to alert members of specifically what was allowed and what was not (As opposed to the case-by-case basis with more "risky" works in the past). If anything, the new rules change eliminated previously allowed works; nothing new was permitted. But, enough of this. I refuse to clutter up the TMF and make Myriads job more difficult with TT issues. If one wished to continue the discussion, feel free to PM me here or bring it up at the TickleTheater.

Besides, you can't edit Google's cache, so if they ever shut TTC down, cops are going to get you anyway, if they really want you.

Correct and another reason we don't delete members. You would be gone from the TickleTheater proper, yes, but records would exist in Google and other search engines of your presence at the TickleTheater.

I asked of the administration as a whole at the TickleTheater and received the same response I earlier gave you: we do not delete members, for all the reasons I have mentioned in this thread. Members are free to delete their own posts; the TickleTheater claims no ownership of posts made by members, so members are free, if they so choose, to delete all posts made by themselves. We do not encourage or suggest this, but the option is there for you. This is the only option.

This is not the answer you want but it is the answer. As I said earlier, please contact myself via PM here or bring the issue up at the TickleTheater if you wish to continue the discussion. I will be more than willing to continue the conversation in either place; however, the opinion of the admins of the TT is not going to change. I don't want to silence anyone but I also don't want to bring any more bloated tirades to the TMF; already we (The TickleTheater) have been the cause of two massive TK Dis threads here. I don't like that and do not want to see a third created. TT problems should be taken up at the TT; TMF problems at the TMF.

Thank you and I apologize for being long-winded.

 

[Zotz]

If this ever became an issue of legality, it would be the mods, admins, and owner of the site that would most likely be the ones investigated.

Next in line would be those that posted the questionable materials and after them, the ones who responded favorably to the materials posted.

I would think that it would never be a bother to those who are merely members of the general forum.

 

[lespieds]

In short, be careful what you post on boards.
There are certains subjects one should never even mention beyond saying it is against the rules or law.

 

[Goodieluver]

Correct. It is not a policy change; what has happened is that it was noticed by members who had before not been aware of it. After the massive debate (Leading to a thread closure due to descent into bickering and simple back-and-forth of the same point ad nauseum) we opted to alert members of specifically what was allowed and what was not (As opposed to the case-by-case basis with more "risky" works in the past). If anything, the new rules change eliminated previously allowed works; nothing new was permitted. But, enough of this. I refuse to clutter up the TMF and make Myriads job more difficult with TT issues. If one wished to continue the discussion, feel free to PM me here or bring it up at the TickleTheater.


Correct and another reason we don't delete members. You would be gone from the TickleTheater proper, yes, but records would exist in Google and other search engines of your presence at the TickleTheater.

I asked of the administration as a whole at the TickleTheater and received the same response I earlier gave you: we do not delete members, for all the reasons I have mentioned in this thread. Members are free to delete their own posts; the TickleTheater claims no ownership of posts made by members, so members are free, if they so choose, to delete all posts made by themselves. We do not encourage or suggest this, but the option is there for you. This is the only option.

This is not the answer you want but it is the answer. As I said earlier, please contact myself via PM here or bring the issue up at the TickleTheater if you wish to continue the discussion. I will be more than willing to continue the conversation in either place; however, the opinion of the admins of the TT is not going to change. I don't want to silence anyone but I also don't want to bring any more bloated tirades to the TMF; already we (The TickleTheater) have been the cause of two massive TK Dis threads here. I don't like that and do not want to see a third created. TT problems should be taken up at the TT; TMF problems at the TMF.

Thank you and I apologize for being long-winded.

Its all good, i just think the situation got way to out of hand for a reason that wasnt even an issue. Had there been a massive flood of papaka crap or like alot of youtube having fathers\mothers tickling their infants and whatnot, that would be over the line and justify immediate action.