Virginia Tech Shooting

[Dr. Bill Kobb]

Oh, pish posh. If I truly held archaic views of the mentally ill, we wouldn't still be having this discussion.

"Asian Sensation". Yeesh. You're the one who aped this phrase from eBaums, and then went on to gush over the number killed in the attack.

Look, you and Cho weren't the only ones to ever get picked on in school, and you won't be the last. The point is, most everyone deals with things a tad differently than slaughtering their classmates and teachers. To post a snippy "I lol'd" on a message-board the day of such a tragedy, with no background as to your convictions, and then to turn around and claim that you did so out of some sort of sardonic, cold-hearted disgust at the sad state of affairs, instead of so much as a small prayer for the victims of this lunatic's rampage, and then to continue to dwell on poor put upon Cho? It's just bewildering to me that you show so little compassion for those who might've wanted to go on with their lives. If Cho had simply commited suicide, it would have been a sad shame, and a testament to how much pain one can feel in this world. But to go on a cold, methodical killing spree against people who may have had no dealing with in this lifetime? It's the worst of the worst.
"Misanthropic" as your 'mood' states under your avatar? Fine. There's alot to hate about humanity. Instead of dwelling on the bad, though, perhaps if you sought out the good to be found. Or even better, become that light of positive energy. Regardless of any belief systems you or others may endorse, everyone of us holds the potential for positive energy, even in the face of what appears to be a cold, unforgiving world.

You lol'd at the tragedy, but it's the dead who are laughing at us.

 

[blackmagicjack1]

Found this article in the Christian Science Monitor on Prof. Librescu. Thought it would be good for people to know a little about him.

http://www.csmonitor.com/2007/0420/p01s03-wome.html

 

[Mr Dog]

Enough negativity! Is like fighting at funeral!

 

[TKLVR181]

I'm with Dog. You guys aren't honoring the lost ones, you're dishonoring them. Let's focus on the victims, not the shooter in here

~K

 

[Camel26]

It kills me that Professor Librescu survived the Holocaust and brought his brilliance to the states, only to lose his life protecting his students from someone who should have been committed to an institution for help...

Nothing about this makes any sense...

My heart breaks for the families and friends of those who passed...

 

[Excess]

Well I'm not so sensitive as to start overthinking the shooting and start thinking that anything with shooting that's near a school must be banned, but yeah, the victims are the ones that should be getting our feelings, not so much the shooter. The reason people talk about the shooter is to simply try to understand why...

 

[Betchass1]

Well I'm not so sensitive as to start overthinking the shooting and start thinking that anything with shooting that's near a school must be banned, but yeah, the victims are the ones that should be getting our feelings, not so much the shooter. The reason people talk about the shooter is to simply try to understand why...

What's so hard to understand? Alienated people full of bitterness and anger are everywhere. Look at the internet. Look at the Middle East. Look at US inner cities.
The Onion ran a fake story once about how life was back to normal at Columbine after some period of time; bullies were back to pushing quiet kids around, jocks and cheerleaders were back to excluding the less fortunate, etc. That seems to be the way. Certain forms of intimidation, manipulation and aggression are okay, certain forms are not. The difference is obvious, but the plain truth is that we ALL have this tendency to want to knock others down; there are ways of dealing with it in civilized society, but it predates civilized society, and it isn't going away.

It doesn't matter at all whether someone has sympathy for the killer, or the killed, or whatever. They're all dead. What does matter is understanding the reality of what has happened, and any kind of personal judgment of the involved parties- damning them to eternal torture, for an extreme example- will tend to inhibit that.

 

[taragohn]

I read through this tread and all I see is focus on victim or shooter and God bless this and that.

What I want to know is: HOW CAN A MENTAL PATIENT WHO WAS DEEMED A DANGER TO HIMSELF AND OTHERS AROUND HIM GET A GUN?

he bought it as if he was buying a loaf of bread. why ins't anybody concerned about that.

 

[Weedly]

What's so hard to understand? Alienated people full of bitterness and anger are everywhere. Look at the internet. Look at the Middle East. Look at US inner cities.


you dont even have to look THAT far

 

[Weedly]

I read through this tread and all I see is focus on victim or shooter and God bless this and that.

What I want to know is: HOW CAN A MENTAL PATIENT WHO WAS DEEMED A DANGER TO HIMSELF AND OTHERS AROUND HIM GET A GUN?

he bought it as if he was buying a loaf of bread. why ins't anybody concerned about that.

Taragon, to answer your question, it has been stated in almost every report released that Cho was urged to seek counciling by professors and close associates. And ALL REPORT THAT HE NEVER DID!!!! Someone who never goes to a doctor or psychiatrist to ask for help cannot be diagnosed or have any record thereof of "mental problems". Secondly, the store owner of the shop where he purchased his weapons of choice has come out to the media and provided proof of a CLEAR BACKGROUND CHECK. Cho's only offense on record was a speeding ticket that he would attend hearing for next month.
In the state of Virginia, It is PERFECTLY LEGAL FOR ANY PERMANENT US RESIDENT, EITHER BY BIRTH OR GREENCARD, TO PURCHASE A FIREARM GRANTED THEY PROVIDE PROPER ID, ARE 18 YEARS OF AGE OR OLDER, AND HAVE A CLEAR CRIMINAL HISTORY. CHO HAD ALL OF THE ABOVE.

Being a gunowner myself, I have much experience in dealing with gun laws and have taken the liberty of educating myself on Virginia's laws ( because i thought about living there one day). I recommend the following site if you yourself wish to look into the matter some more. It has a really comprehensive translation of "lawer speak".
http://www.vsp.state.va.us/Firearms.shtm

PS: the only thing wrong with gun laws is the fact that they only hinder and persecute law-abiding citizens for practicing their Constitutional Rights.

 

[vinnyva]

He wasnt stopped from buying the gun because NICS showed that he wasnt a felon. Its truly as simple as that.

Vince

 

[Wade1]

What I want to know is: HOW CAN A MENTAL PATIENT WHO WAS DEEMED A DANGER TO HIMSELF AND OTHERS AROUND HIM GET A GUN?

Under the law he shouldn't have been able to buy guns; he was indeed ineligible because of his previous designations and committals. He slid past the gun laws because of fundamental problems with the way that information is shared, apparently.

 

[Midnight Circus]

Oh, pish posh. If I truly held archaic views of the mentally ill, we wouldn't still be having this discussion.

Why, because you'd check yourself in for shock therapy?

"Asian Sensation". Yeesh. You're the one who aped this phrase from eBaums, and then went on to gush over the number killed in the attack.

This may come as a surprise, but historians agree that Adolf Hitler was a great military tactician (for the most part), a great propagandist, and, overall, a great politician--and all WITHOUT agreeing with his policies or morals. Cho's pistol skills have been unmatched by any other mass spree-killer in this country. I'm sorry that he has the current high score and you don't, but your jealousy is no reason to be an over-reaching ass.

Look, you and Cho weren't the only ones to ever get picked on in school, and you won't be the last.

Once again, Rick assumes too much. People largely left me alone in school. Also, nice attempt at insult.

The point is, most everyone deals with things a tad differently than slaughtering their classmates and teachers.

No kidding. Who's claiming that they don't?

To post a snippy "I lol'd" on a message-board the day of such a tragedy, with no background as to your convictions,

I like how I need a background, lest you assume something (which you do anyway, even when provided with background). And, as I recall, I posted that, you posted a question mark, and I explained myself. If you don't believe my explanation, then that is quite frankly your problem and not mine.

and then to turn around and claim that you did so out of some sort of sardonic, cold-hearted disgust at the sad state of affairs,

See above.

instead of so much as a small prayer for the victims of this lunatic's rampage,

What, do you want me to post a whole rosary? I've already said that I feel for the victims and their families. If you want more than that, too damn bad. This is all you're getting.

and then to continue to dwell on poor put upon Cho?

Uh...because, in a weird round-about way, he's kind of a victim, too. He's dead, his parents are mourning his loss, and that's that. You can't change reality, dude, no matter how much you try.

It's just bewildering to me that you show so little compassion for those who might've wanted to go on with their lives.

See above. Also, if I'm going to show compassion, I'm certainly not going to do so when it means so little (as it does on a small forum where the victims and their families are not likely to go) just so I can have bragging rights among you people. Sorry, but I don't work like that.

If Cho had simply commited suicide, it would have been a sad shame, and a testament to how much pain one can feel in this world. But to go on a cold, methodical killing spree against people who may have had no dealing with in this lifetime? It's the worst of the worst.

And that actually is my point, sir. His destruction was rooted so deeply that it didn't just shake him, but rather destroyed the lives of those around him as well. That's quite a testament to how much pain one can feel in this world right there--to be so angry, to be so hurt, to be so emotionally damaged from years and years of social torment that you can actually justify (as he did) the killing of thirty-two other people. You seem to be making the mistake that I think it's something to be proud of, which I don't--and I never meant to insinuate otherwise. However, the fact still stands that, if we're going to call Cho a monster, we've also got to place the blame on those who created him. That's my point. Is a monster really responsible for his own creation? I'm not so sure about that.

"Misanthropic" as your 'mood' states under your avatar? Fine. There's alot to hate about humanity. Instead of dwelling on the bad, though, perhaps if you sought out the good to be found. Or even better, become that light of positive energy. Regardless of any belief systems you or others may endorse, everyone of us holds the potential for positive energy, even in the face of what appears to be a cold, unforgiving world.

Thanks for the psuedo-scientific gobbledeegook, but if I wanted that sort of thing, I would visit a psychic or a palm reader. I do find it funny, though, that you base your whole perception of me on one word under my avatar and a few posts in a thread that you haven't even actually read but instead just assumed a lot of things from.

You lol'd at the tragedy, but it's the dead who are laughing at us.

See above, YET AGAIN. Also, now who's being negative?

But, on a different note, has anyone here read any of the Asian Sensation's plays? They're actually not that bad.

Predicted response: ZOMG!! I HOPE HIS PLAYS BURN IN HELLZORZ!!!

 

[Midnight Circus]

I'm with Dog. You guys aren't honoring the lost ones, you're dishonoring them. Let's focus on the victims, not the shooter in here

~K

1. Cho was a victim himself, and
2. Cho's parents are now without a son, so they're victims, too.
I mean, even the VTech memorial has 33 sites (with one for Cho), and yet you people still have a problem with acknowledging Cho as a victim? They can forgive and come to some sort of understanding, but you people--who couldn't possibly be farther from the atrocity--somehow can't stop going on your little cyber-witch hunt? That's pretty sad.

 

[MistressValerie1]

I read through this tread and all I see is focus on victim or shooter and God bless this and that.

What I want to know is: HOW CAN A MENTAL PATIENT WHO WAS DEEMED A DANGER TO HIMSELF AND OTHERS AROUND HIM GET A GUN?

he bought it as if he was buying a loaf of bread. why ins't anybody concerned about that.

He was actually a prohibited purchaser because he had been ordered by a judge to undergo outpatient psychiatric treatment in 2005, but the record of that order was not entered into the NCIC database that is used to conduct the background check.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070420/ap_on_re_us/virginia_tech_shooting_weapons

 

[taragohn]

Otakuwarrior:

First. He was deemed dangerous by a judge so there must have been records at court that stated his mental state. Why does that not come up with the background check?

Second. Older than 18, permentant resident and no criminal record. That's it?
So in Virginia only criminals, youth and outsiders are deemed unfit to own a gun? All I read on the site is criminal background. A mental state check is for me as important as criminal background.

Third. Why does a law abiding citizen need a gun? Why is it a right to own a gun? It is a lethal and dangerous item only professionals need to have

 

[Betchass1]

He was actually a prohibited purchaser because he had been ordered by a judge to undergo outpatient psychiatric treatment in 2005, but the record of that order was not entered into the NCIC database that is used to conduct the background check.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070420/ap_on_re_us/virginia_tech_shooting_weapons

So the answer to the question is "because of another American government fuck-up." At least it wasn't the government themselves shooting students this time.

 

[Betchass1]

Third. Why does a law abiding citizen need a gun? Why is it a right to own a gun? It is a lethal and dangerous item only professionals need to have

It is a right to own a gun so that citizens will not find themselves helpless, as the writers of the Constitution witnessed many revolutionaries going up against British soldiers armed with pitchforks. The Bill of Rights is largely for protecting citizens against overzealous government. If it is legal to own a gun, and it is, then it is none of our business *why* anyone needs to own one. It's like asking why anyone needs to be allowed to protest the government.
Preventing crimes by making it illegal to be able to commit them sounds like something straight out of Minority Report. It's a chance you take living in this country. The judicial system doesn't promise justice, it just promises you have the same chance for justice as everyone else.

 

[Betchass1]

The Holy Spirit is there to guide and direct us, but most chose to ignore Him. Everyone want to blame anyone but who is truly responsible, satan and the sinful choices of man. Typical of this generation.

I think most of any generation would blame this on poor choices of a man. I can only guess that those who leave satan out would generally prefer to actually address the problem than to push it to a corner of their minds labeled "evil" and write it off.

 

[taragohn]

It is a right to own a gun so that citizens will not find themselves helpless, as the writers of the Constitution witnessed many revolutionaries going up against British soldiers armed with pitchforks. The Bill of Rights is largely for protecting citizens against overzealous government. If it is legal to own a gun, and it is, then it is none of our business *why* anyone needs to own one. It's like asking why anyone needs to be allowed to protest the government.
Preventing crimes by making it illegal to be able to commit them sounds like something straight out of Minority Report. It's a chance you take living in this country. The judicial system doesn't promise justice, it just promises you have the same chance for justice as everyone else.

Brittish soldiers? Constitution? we live in quite different times now. There are other ways to fight overzealous goverments than to arm yourself these days. Furthermore, the right to own a gun as the Constitution writers meant it is now, in modern times, not practised the way they intended to. Nobody owns a gun to protect them against overzealous goverments anymore. So the term Constitutional Right is as it was originally meant is now completly lost. You say as if saying that you do not have the right to own a gun is the same thing as saying you cannot question your goverment. These are now totally unrelated.
As for none of our business because it is legal. When it concerns an item that is a considirable threat and very dangerous to me I feel I have the right to know why someone needs to own such a device. It is a weapon people. These things can kill and are tools that can be used to cause tragedies like the one that happened which caused all this grief in the first place. And it is not the first time this has happened in your country. But if you feel that everybody has the right to own a gun fine by me. But do not start whinning when the next tragedy happens. Because you feel everyone should have the right to own a gun.

Last: a judicial system that does not promise justice??????????

 

[TKLVR181]

1. Cho was a victim himself, and
2. Cho's parents are now without a son, so they're victims, too.
I mean, even the VTech memorial has 33 sites (with one for Cho), and yet you people still have a problem with acknowledging Cho as a victim? They can forgive and come to some sort of understanding, but you people--who couldn't possibly be farther from the atrocity--somehow can't stop going on your little cyber-witch hunt? That's pretty sad.

I agree he's a victim--he fell through the cracks. But what he did was still horrible. Sticking up for him is just causing people to get angry and argue amongst ourselves over it. Which isn't what this thread is about.

 

[Betchass1]

Brittish soldiers? Constitution? we live in quite different times now. There are other ways to fight overzealous goverments than to arm yourself these days. Furthermore, the right to own a gun as the Constitution writers meant it is now, in modern times, not practised the way they intended to. Nobody owns a gun to protect them against overzealous goverments anymore. So the term Constitutional Right is as it was originally meant is now completly lost. You say as if saying that you do not have the right to own a gun is the same thing as saying you cannot question your goverment. These are now totally unrelated.

So the authors of the U.S. Constitution didn't understand what it was like to live in dangerous, unstable times? Surely we know what they really meant better than they did. Never before have innocent citizens been in danger from people with guns!

As for none of our business because it is legal. When it concerns an item that is a considirable threat and very dangerous to me I feel I have the right to know why someone needs to own such a device. It is a weapon people. These things can kill and are tools that can be used to cause tragedies like the one that happened which caused all this grief in the first place. And it is not the first time this has happened in your country. But if you feel that everybody has the right to own a gun fine by me. But do not start whinning when the next tragedy happens. Because you feel everyone should have the right to own a gun.

I think if you check over my posts you'll find I haven't whined a bit about this tragedy. I'm in the camp that is not shocked. I definitely don't think Cho should have been allowed to purchase a gun, but I also don't think it should be illegal to own one. I could reference another famous controversial figure, Bernhard Goetz, whose actions filled many with courage and were seen as the triumph of an underdog. By some...

Last: a judicial system that does not promise justice??????????

By jove, I think he's got it! How can anyone promise justice? To do so is a lie. An accused criminal is promised a trial by a jury of peers, and a victim is promised some level of representation by the government. How could anyone guarantee that every innocent victim will see justice and every law-breaker will be apprehended and dealt with fairly? It's nice to have some attempt, but only a totalitarian government could realize such a promise. Justice is a feeling, nothing more. Reality is ruthless.

 

[alienfetus]

Bleh. 1/3rd of my graduating class went to VTech.. I live maybe an hour away from the campus. I dunno. I just... It makes me sick to think... One of my best friends almost went there, for engineering, but decided to stay here. I indirectly know a few people shot, but. No one close to me was injured.. It's just stressful, here. And not all of us Virginians are redneck, gun-wielding psychos. Which one of my other forums tried to insult. I was pretty offended.

 

[Midnight Circus]

I agree he's a victim--he fell through the cracks. But what he did was still horrible. Sticking up for him is just causing people to get angry and argue amongst ourselves over it. Which isn't what this thread is about.

Yeah, well, I just happen to have those little things called "sympathy" and "understanding"--and, apparently, so do the students at Virginia Tech. That should tell people something.

 

[kopfhorer1]

I hear what you're saying. A relative was in New York on business in mid-September 2001. When the 9-11 attacks hit, I called his home to make sure he was OK. His wife informed me that he was nowhere near NYC that day.