What DON'T you like about M/M tickling? (a discussion)

[tricham]

2 Men being THAT physical with each other is Gay

& I personaly find homosexuality offensive & disgusting & I'm against it because GOD is against it, & who am I to argue with the Creator. I dont hate them, I was just raised like many others that homosexuality is wrong.

 

[wendynpeter]

Jesus. Idiotic, homophobic, bible-thumping answers aside...

Simple question, simple answer.

I don't like watching M/M tickling because it doesn't get me off. Why? Because I can't place myself in the scenerio. Why? Because I wouldn't want to tickle or be tickled by another man. Why? Because tickling is a sexual fetish for me, and I have zero desire to express myself sexually with another man.

In other words, I'm not gay or bisexual, and the participants of a M/M are presumed to be either gay or bisexual. OF COURSE that's the short answer, and I'm not going to twist my mind into a PC-induced pretzel over trying to answer the question in any other way. As for the (in-fucking-evitible) question of why straight men will watch F/F tickling -- See above. Duh. A straight man can place himself into a F/F scenerio. Because he can assume that either the women are gay or bisexual, that still places him comfortably into the scenerio. *The better question is how many straight (not bi or bi curious) women or gay men like to watch F/F tickling.*

Yes, it's all fantasy, but our fantasies are based on what we'd love to be able to do in real life, even if they aren't posible.

 

[Senbab]

guys just arent my thing. Im not a homophobe or anything. gay people can do whatever they want, just as long as i dont have to witness it or anything.

 

[tickler_n_black]

Im not a homophobe or anything.

Ya know Senbab, it's plenty OK to be what they call a "homophobe."

It's OK to not like something and express your dislike in a civil manner.
It's OK to have an opinion, especially about your sexual preferences.


[first night at Homophobes Anonymous]
"Hi,
I'm TIB and I'm a ... homophobe."


It's ok if a person believes that men having sex (sticking that thing in that place) with men is disgusting in every way possible. Certainly one is allowed to express that opinion if others are allowed to say "I'm gay and proud of it. I love men." Each side is entitled to their statement.

 

[LindyHopper]

::: TIB slaps Bagelfather across the face :::

Wake up man!
Get a hold of yourself!
Did you hear what you just said!?!?!

😉

Oh for God's sake (not that God has anything to do with it), there's a world of difference between not being repulsed by kissing a member of the same sex, and active attraction. For myself, in one particular situation, I found the touch of one particular woman to be sexually arousing. I still consider myself straight, because when I compare that one experience with all the men I've had crushes on, obsessed over, lusted after, and loved, there's simply no comparison.

In other words, engaging in activities like this means that we aren't homophobic, but there are no further implications for our sexuality. The absence of disgust is not the same as the presence of desire.

 

[Ticklerguy4u]

Oh for God's sake (not that God has anything to do with it), there's a world of difference between not being repulsed by kissing a member of the same sex, and active attraction. For myself, in one particular situation, I found the touch of one particular woman to be sexually arousing. I still consider myself straight, because when I compare that one experience with all the men I've had crushes on, obsessed over, lusted after, and loved, there's simply no comparison.

In other words, engaging in activities like this means that we aren't homophobic, but there are no further implications for our sexuality. The absence of disgust is not the same as the presence of desire.

Didn't you hear?? Only male on male is gay..but girl on girl is not. Ask all the guys around here if you don't believe me..

 

[PainTrain]

It's OK to not like something and express your dislike in a civil manner.



It's ok if a person believes that men having sex (sticking that thing in that place) with men is disgusting in every way possible. Certainly one is allowed to express that opinion if others are allowed to say "I'm gay and proud of it. I love men." Each side is entitled to their statement.

Oh the irony.

Yea, making a comparison between the statement "I'm gay and proud of it. I love men." And "Men having sex with men (sticking that thing in that place) is disgusting in every way possible"


...anyone see the difference here? Kinda funny coming from someone who claims he expresses his opinions in a "civil manner".

Most of the time I don't, but at least I don't claim to.

 

[tickler_n_black]

Oh the irony.

Gremio, if gay men have sex some other way besides the way I described, would you kindly let us know? Are you trying to say that this is not how a man and a man have sexual intercourse? Is there some magical other way that us "homophobes" don't know about? Thanks.

Honestly this is interesting to me because now that I think of it, gay men seem to NEVER talk about how gay sex happens. It's like they pretend it doesn't. Please shed light on this since you yourself said you are "as gay as they come."

And you must admit (keeping with the subject of this thread) that nearly every man who involves himself in a m/m tied and tickled scenario ... is either gay or bi.... right? You're not denying that are you?

 

[wendynpeter]

Oh the irony.

Yea, making a comparison between the statement "I'm gay and proud of it. I love men." And "Men having sex with men (sticking that thing in that place) is disgusting in every way possible"


...anyone see the difference here?

Other than the fomer is a statement about one's self and the latter is a statement about a group of other people? How about a little charity of interpretation? OK, how about:

If it's OK to express the opinion "gay sex is wonderful," then why isn't it OK to express the opinion "gay sex is disgusting." There. Both are expressions of *taste*. Both statements should be equally valued among people who believe in diversity and tolerance (unless they value diversity only so long as it's not diversity of thought and they value tolerance only so long as it's not tolerance for expressions they disagree with...)

This thread did not call for a conversation about the *morality* of homosexuality. Let's not go there, OK? We all know everyone has their ideas about that topic, and no one's gonna change anyone else's mind about it.

 

[Bagelfather]

on the kiss

Did he slip you the tongue?

No, I did.

 

[Bagelfather]

TMF sandbox

::: TIB slaps Bagelfather across the face :::

Wake up man!
Get a hold of yourself!
Did you hear what you just said!?!?!

😉

It is really sad when the last three people have only made snide comments on the fact that I kissed a man. The thought out intellectual consderations of gay lifestyles and the BDSM community have been overlooked for crass humor. Of all the people who made snide comments I would expect better from you, I would not expect that from you. I am very disapointed that you decided to go down the route of four year olds. The others I can expect it from, but not you.

 

[lk70]

It's ok if a person believes that men having sex (sticking that thing in that place) with men is disgusting in every way possible. Certainly one is allowed to express that opinion if others are allowed to say "I'm gay and proud of it. I love men." Each side is entitled to their statement.

Oh I'm so glad this came up. And if a man sticks that thing in that place of a woman, what then? Is he a closet homosexual?

And let's suppose the gay man doesn't have anal sex, but only receives oral sex from his same sex partner, is that ok?

Those are two acts that can be experienced in the exact same way with either a man or a woman - oh the irony.

 

[wendynpeter]

Oh I'm so glad this came up. And if a man sticks that thing in that place of a woman, what then? Is he a closet homosexual?

Only if he closes his eyes and imagines he's doing it to Brad Pitt...

And let's suppose the gay man doesn't have anal sex, but only receives oral sex from his same sex partner, is that ok?

Gay OK.

Those are two acts that can be experienced in the exact same way with either a man or a woman - oh the irony.

That's a pretty confused line of reasoning, lk. Those are *not* two acts that can be experienced in exactly the same way with either a man or a woman (although that's the common argument gay men give when they're trying to seduce a straight guy). In fact, it's who's involved that matters most. If it didn't, gay men wouldn't mind sleeping with women.

 

[lk70]

That's a pretty confused line of reasoning, lk. Those are *not* two acts that can be experienced in exactly the same way with either a man or a woman (although that's the common argument gay men give when they're trying to seduce a straight guy). In fact, it's who's involved that matters most. If it didn't, gay men wouldn't mind sleeping with women.

Quite right. But someone earlier felt the need to specify that "sticking that thing in that place" is the problem. I'm just wondering if "that place" in a woman is a problem too?

 

[PainTrain]

Gremio, if gay men have sex some other way besides the way I described, would you kindly let us know? Are you trying to say that this is not how a man and a man have sexual intercourse? Is there some magical other way that us "homophobes" don't know about? Thanks.

Honestly this is interesting to me because now that I think of it, gay men seem to NEVER talk about how gay sex happens. It's like they pretend it doesn't. Please shed light on this since you yourself said you are "as gay as they come."

And you must admit (keeping with the subject of this thread) that nearly every man who involves himself in a m/m tied and tickled scenario ... is either gay or bi.... right? You're not denying that are you?

And how did you get the idea that I'm somehow denying anal sex? I take it up the ass, deal with it. You sure are great at dodging the points of posts.


As for the "every guy who engages in m/m tickling is gay or bi" ... I can't answer that one. I won't speak for people I don't know. All I can tell you, is that not everyone thinks like you do.

 

[PainTrain]

Other than the fomer is a statement about one's self and the latter is a statement about a group of other people? How about a little charity of interpretation? OK, how about:

If it's OK to express the opinion "gay sex is wonderful," then why isn't it OK to express the opinion "gay sex is disgusting." There. Both are expressions of *taste*. Both statements should be equally valued among people who believe in diversity and tolerance (unless they value diversity only so long as it's not diversity of thought and they value tolerance only so long as it's not tolerance for expressions they disagree with...)

Way to misinterpret. TiB used the line "I'm gay and proud. I love men" NOT "Gay sex is wonderful". Both you and he entirely missed the point of the post. If he had said "Gay sex is wonderful", it would have been a different story. He did not. He basically compared one normal, tame statement, to one tasteless, rude one, and tried to pass it off as "civil".


It would be like someone saying: "I'm straight and proud. I love women." and then me replying by saying "Vagina is gross. Sticking that thing in that place; there is nothing more disgusting."

See?

I'm not disputing his right to do so. I'm only pointing out the fact that he stated "It's OK to not like something and express your dislike in a civil manner." I wouldn't call how he compared those statements civil, but thats just my opinion, nothing more.

I won't post in this thread anymore, as it has gotten off topic.

 

[BellaRisa]

I find this thread fascinating.

I haven't posted much, because I didn't feel I belonged here. This thread was explicitly designed for people who dislike m/m tickling. I am not one of those people, so I've been rather silent unless it was as a moderator. But I have been reading, and I've watched this thread go careening off course as I predicted. I honestly welcomed this thread as a place for people with preferences that differ from mine and others to speak their opinions in an appropriate place, where someone asked for their opinion. I hoped it wouldn't turn into yet another thread where people with a legit stance had to defend themselves. Ah well. Apparently this can't be discussed without it devolving into that. I don't understand that really, but I digress...

Personally I've never expected to change a non-m/m enthusiast's mind. I'll definitely challenge them on a few facts about it, and I'll ask them, rather vocally, to not say negative things to annoy me in threads that promote it, but I would no more expect them to change their minds than I would expect someone to finally convince me to like football (I live in Ohio and the whole life-overtaking Buckeye mania makes me nauseous every darn year ). If you ask me, I'll tell you that I think grown men running into each other on purpose is goofy. But only if you *ask* me. (and if you're not my ex-football player boyfriend who never needs another reason to spank me... 🙄 ) I don't go bothering people in football threads, I don't harrass my friends who have parties to watch the games, and I bite my tongue when the guy on the treadmill next to me at the gym scares the crap outta me screaming at the game on the overhead tv. Because spoiling their fun with my comments would be immature and in poor taste. Do I have a right to my opinion? Absolutely. Is it better for everyone to keep that opinion to myself unless asked? Absolutely. Bringing down someone else's positive experience serves only the most selfish of purposes.

Guys, seriously: all m/m fans, or f/m fans or m/wookie fans or whatever, ask is to be allowed to enjoy their clips and threads and such in peace. Please do not confuse your right to express yourself with the right to add needless negativity. I don't mean threads where your opinion is asked for and valuable however others may disagree, I mean threads where debate is not the purpose and frankly no one asked you.

/Bellarant

 

[jk666uk]

And how did you get the idea that I'm somehow denying anal sex? I take it up the ass, deal with it. You sure are great at dodging the points of posts.


As for the "every guy who engages in m/m tickling is gay or bi" ... I can't answer that one. I won't speak for people I don't know. All I can tell you, is that not everyone thinks like you do.

who are you trying to kid

 

[jk666uk]

I find this thread fascinating.

I haven't posted much, because I didn't feel I belonged here. This thread was explicitly designed for people who dislike m/m tickling. I am not one of those people, so I've been rather silent unless it was as a moderator. But I have been reading, and I've watched this thread go careening off course as I predicted. I honestly welcomed this thread as a place for people with preferences that differ from mine and others to speak their opinions in an appropriate place, where someone asked for their opinion. I hoped it wouldn't turn into yet another thread where people with a legit stance had to defend themselves. Ah well. Apparently this can't be discussed without it devolving into that. I don't understand that really, but I digress...

Personally I've never expected to change a non-m/m enthusiast's mind. I'll definitely challenge them on a few facts about it, and I'll ask them, rather vocally, to not say negative things to annoy me in threads that promote it, but I would no more expect them to change their minds than I would expect someone to finally convince me to like football (I live in Ohio and the whole life-overtaking Buckeye mania makes me nauseous every darn year ). If you ask me, I'll tell you that I think grown men running into each other on purpose is goofy. But only if you *ask* me. (and if you're not my ex-football player boyfriend who never needs another reason to spank me... 🙄 ) I don't go bothering people in football threads, I don't harrass my friends who have parties to watch the games, and I bite my tongue when the guy on the treadmill next to me at the gym scares the crap outta screaming at the game on the overhead tv. Because spoiling their fun with my comments would be immature and in poor taste. Do I have a right to my opinion? Absolutely. Is it better for everyone to keep that opinion to myself unless asked? Absolutely. Bringing down someone else's positive experience serves only the most selfish of purposes.

Guys, seriously: all m/m fans, or f/m fans or m/wookie fans or whatever, ask is to be allowed to enjoy their clips and threads and such in peace. Please do not confuse your right to express yourself with the right to add needless negativity. I don't mean threads where your opinion is asked for and valuable however others may disagree, I mean threads where debate is not the purpose and frankly no one asked you.

/Bellarant

wookie fans good one 🙂 🙂

 

[wendynpeter]

Quite right. But someone earlier felt the need to specify that "sticking that thing in that place" is the problem. I'm just wondering if "that place" in a woman is a problem too?

I should hope it's the sex of the person with the orifice and not the orifice itself that matters in a discussion like this. If not, that's another discussion entirely.

 

[wendynpeter]

Way to misinterpret. TiB used the line "I'm gay and proud. I love men" NOT "Gay sex is wonderful". Both you and he entirely missed the point of the post. If he had said "Gay sex is wonderful", it would have been a different story. He did not. He basically compared one normal, tame statement, to one tasteless, rude one, and tried to pass it off as "civil".

And I'm saying you should base your response on the most charitable interpretaion of what was said. He was obviously making a statement about pro-gay vs. anti-gay sentiments. If I'm misinterpreting you, TIB, just lemme know.

As for being tasteless and rude, I disagree. It might have been *tactless*, but it's a legitimate viewpoint.

It would be like someone saying: "I'm straight and proud. I love women." and then me replying by saying "Vagina is gross. Sticking that thing in that place; there is nothing more disgusting."

See?

And not that it makes it any better, but I've heard that exact statement coming from the mouths of gay men JUST as often as I've heard the reverse from straight men.

Look, I agree things have veered off course. But then I'm not sure that wasn't an intended consequense of this discussion. Do *I* think it's over the top to call gay sex "disgusting?" Maybe, but certainly not more over the top than 500 men marching down a public street in walrus mustaches, ballet skirts, nipple clamps and combat boots screaming "We're here, we're queer, get over it! (cha cha cha). Dignity has a role to play on both sides of the fence.

 

[Senbab]

Ya know Senbab, it's plenty OK to be what they call a "homophobe."

It's OK to not like something and express your dislike in a civil manner.
It's OK to have an opinion, especially about your sexual preferences.


[first night at Homophobes Anonymous]
"Hi,
I'm TIB and I'm a ... homophobe."


It's ok if a person believes that men having sex (sticking that thing in that place) with men is disgusting in every way possible. Certainly one is allowed to express that opinion if others are allowed to say "I'm gay and proud of it. I love men." Each side is entitled to their statement.

oh i know. and i agree with what you say, i just wanted to phrase my opinion in that i support gay marrage even though it does disgust me personally.

 

[wendynpeter]

'Homophobe.' -- It's an interesting use of the word, I think. I don't know that many people who are AFRAID of gay people. Probably a better word to describe the way most anti-gay people feel would be 'heterocentric.' Or maybe 'hetrosexist.' Just a thought....

 

[PainTrain]

And I'm saying you should base your response on the most charitable interpretaion of what was said.

Forgive me if I don't interpret things based on your criteria.

Look, I agree things have veered off course. But then I'm not sure that wasn't an intended consequense of this discussion. Do *I* think it's over the top to call gay sex "disgusting?" Maybe, but certainly not more over the top than 500 men marching down a public street in walrus mustaches, ballet skirts, nipple clamps and combat boots screaming "We're here, we're queer, get over it! (cha cha cha). Dignity has a role to play on both sides of the fence.

Dignity? Who's definition of "dignity"? Forgive us homosexuals if we don't submit to the common heterosexual definition of "dignity". Some of us, anyhow. Ah, to live in a free country.

Oh yea, and it's called a parade. It's allowed. Ah...what I wouldn't give to be back at San Fran Pride 05'... 😛oke3:

 

[wendynpeter]

Dignity? Who's definition of "dignity"? Forgive us homosexuals if we don't submit to the common heterosexual definition of "dignity". Some of us, anyhow. Ah, to live in a free country.

Ah. My point precisely. Forgive us heterosexuals if we don't submit to the common homosexual contention that homosexuality isn't anything to be disgusted by.

Look, I just feel the exact same way that my buddy Oscar Wilde felt: "Homosexuality isn't normal. It's just common."

I think that's it in a nutshell. I think most people are willing to be tolerant, and draw the line at "openly accepting." And since this IS a free country, that might just have to do.