What's the Big Effin' Deal?

[Tamia78]

Okay, everyone.

This is the official trailer for the new Disney film "The Princess and the Frog" coming out in 2009. Why is there such a controversy over it? Frankly, I'm excited that disney is finally coming out with another cartoon. Also, this is the 1st time that a Disney princess is Black.

Apparently, at first, the main character's name was going to be Maddy, and her job was a chambermaid. Disney got a load of controversy over that one, claiming that it was "racist". I don't get it. Cinderella was a maid, Belle was a peasant,............see where I'm going with this?

Anyways, Disney changed her name to Princess Tiana, and she has a new job....can't think of it right now, but it's definitely NOT a chambermaid.

So, you guys preview this trailer, and tell me what you think about it. Does it really make black women look bad?

--T

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/gJl0JJt69ro&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/gJl0JJt69ro&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

 

[RobAce]

I agree with you Tamia.

I cant believe the lengths people go to sometimes.

The problem I see is that the princesses butt is not big enough for my liking.

UNITY!!!!!

Rob

 

[slacker2114]

Ok, I'm as politically incorrect as anyone, but I think I spotted a couple things that people would say is racist...

1. The exaggerated lips. It's one of the oldest stereotypes for blacks. Granted, it's a freakin' cartoon where characters are supposed to be exaggerated, but you must remember that some people have too much time on their hands.

2. The "Steppin' Fetchit" type speech on the bug. Not exactly sure why that's considered racist, but I have heard people, including blacks, take exception to hearing it.

Basically, some people just aren't happy unless they're bitching about something, and since Disney is on the same level of evil as Wal-Mart, they make a handy target for people with nothing better to do.

 

[Tamia78]

Slack, I see what you mean, and that was one of the complaints about Princess Tiana. But.........are they really that big? What's wrong with having big lips? She's supposed to be black. Personally, I think it's commendable for Disney to try and finally represent Black people. It just bugs me that we've been complainin for years that Disney doesn't have a black princess (Jasmine was close, but no cigar), and we have one..........and we complain?
Still shakin my head on that one.

I can see a little about the bug, but people had the same complaints about Jar-Jar Binks in Star Wars.

--T

 

[slacker2114]

The question is...is it black people complaining or is it white people who are afraid black people might be offended?

 

[Tamia78]

Whoa........that's deep, man.....It might be both. Damn politically correct-ness!

 

[..Glamorous..]

I personally think she looks like all the other princesses. Just a different color.

 

[KrazieDog]

Welcome to the over "PC" world where people go so far out of the way not to offend, they offend. Disney has a fantastic track record of making awesome cartoons. Little kids have always wanted to be the prince/princess growing up watching them. A black female lead is a great thing. Like you said Tam, her role in the movie would have followed many a great "pauper to princess stories". It's funny that it isn't considered demeaning to the previous characters but it is here? I see why in the point, but not in the overall context of what it is.

And Slacker, I don't think the voice was intended the way it came off. When she spoke, I thought I heard Creole in her voice and wonder if it takes place in the New Orleans area, and then when the bug spoke I knew that was "their" version of cajun which would make sense.

Overall Tam, I'm with you in that, let it role as is, make a great animation and story and have a beautiful black girl as lead.

 

[LD_Tickler]

I definitely don't see anything wrong in that clip.

Still, I can understand why people are eager to be Disney racism watchdogs. Disney's been known to make some questionable calls... from the character Jim Crow, in Dumbo, or the song of the "happy hearted roustabouds" - all of whom are black - in the same movie:

Hike! Ugh! Hike! Ugh! Hike! Ugh! Hike!
We work all day, we work all night
We never learned to read or write
We're happy-hearted roustabouts

Hike! Ugh! Hike! Ugh! Hike! Ugh! Hike!
When other folks have gone to bed
We slave until we're almost dead
We're happy-hearted roustabouts

A little borderline there, methinks.


And of course, let's not forget this shining example of racial sensitivity:

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/Y_at9dOElQk&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/Y_at9dOElQk&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

"teachem pale-faced brother all about Red man"

 

[kis123]

How many Disney princesses carry a Southern accent?

How many narrating characters are shown with half their teeth with a southern accent? Did Jimmeny Cricket have a half toothless mouth with a horrible southern accent? Let me answer that with a big resounding "no"!! Tamia, the trailer has racial issues all over it and I'm surprised you'd even question why this is really wrong. Disney produces quality product with white characters; why do they see the need to dumb it down because the princess is depicted as black?

I can see why some people are pissed; I wouldn't take anyone to see this movie based on the trailer. If they don't fix it, the attendance ratings will be low and the movie considered "unsuccessful" because of poor quality choices.

This isn't a PC issue; it's a stuidity issue from Disney that's going to bite them squarely in the backside if they don't fix it!

 

[Oddjob0226]

A major Disney female protagonist being non-white? I say about time, without being preachy or seeing this as a "victory". It's just a nice, new step. A character that talks funny, even if it seems a throwback to uglier times? Well, people DO talk funny.

(And we DO make fun of them when we are with out friends, in private, by imitaitng their speech. We do! Have some sake at a Japanese restaurant and just wait and hear what happens when you're hanging out with your well-drenched pals later that night back at the crib and people begin recounting their restaurant expereince. - Or, if you are Japanese reading this, enjoy a few Lone Star beers at a roadhouse steakhouse/saloon, then apply the same late-evening circumstances).

Some would say it was too late in coming. Others would say it's nothing to make a big deal about, even catering to "special interests".

As far as the clip; some will act as guardians of racial equality and view this movie with a microscope. Meesa tinks the movie's just fine no matter if she was a maid or princess, or what she looked like. It's nice that Disney is becoming more inclusive. I remember when their animated "Atlantis" film got some attention for having the first major male black character ( he was a doctor on the ship ). I didn't see any exagerated lips on the princess, jsut the frog. She's Southern since it's in New Orleans apparently (and thus anti-American in it's promotion of a monarchy upon U.S. soil - why has no one brought this up?) and the toothless firefly sounds if the actor himself has a dental issue. So it's perfect. Although he looks kind of ugly.

I love my Disney white girlz. But there's always room on the color palate for characters that are quality & fun.

This is something "new" to us I suppose as a society, but societies always change, anyway. 50 years from us it won't be a big deal at all. Or, oppositely, by their futuristic strandards it will be embarrasing. Raven Simon has been a big hit on the Disney Channel for years now. My "old days" parents think television has sunk too low, her being on the air. My "modern day" nieces want to be her & wish there was a Raven Channel. That's life on planet earth!

I know feminists that hate the Disney 'model' of princesses always needing to be rescued and as prominant fictional females in a child's life they are seen in a negative light. They love the independent get-r-done Princess Fiona, though. Who was green.

Disney has always reflected the larger cutlure to a great extent. Check out the attached pic of a little something cut out of Disney's "Fantasia" after it's 1940s release. Societies do change... adn in light of this Fantasia image this "Princess & Frog" trailer seems like a jump forward in light years. Someday there's going to be an outright openly gay Disney character; not just the antiseptically-homo-implied evil British-ish characters that have been in the movies for so long.

 

[Capnmad]

We've entered a very PC age at the same time we've developed shorter attention spans, happily blog and publicize kneejerk reactions, and those reactions can run around the web a few times before even TV catches up...

To a business like Disney, this means even the hint of impropriety can start a firestorm of controversy, boycotts and impact the bottom line before the matter is considered with any depth.

That "Maddy" was a chambermaid at the outset I would not have had a problem with, providing that, in accordance with the positive messages Disney's trying to convey, they demonstrate a triumph of the will over circumstance.

Duly noted -- Belle of "Beauty and The Beast" did that. It was determination and love that got her the fairytale ending. For Cinderella, it was less the matter of her own work and more that of the Prince, as I recall, but in modern Disney movies we tend to see movement toward more independent women, and that's a good thing...

Assuming they've made chambermaid "Maddy" into "Princess Tiana" from the outset, it unfortunately removes part of the struggle, part of the moral, and thus, part of the strength of the character... Crap -- she's a Princess already?! What the heck else does she want? Oh, love, right...



What disappoints me about Disney is their shameless pandering be it to trend or outside demand. I didn't know if I was going to see another traditional animation piece from them -- they dissolved their Florida studios a while back, and invested more in CGI thanks to the success of Pixar.

Similarly, I think they have no spine anymore to try to convince detractors to judge the work not on a few superficial features, but rather on the strength of the overall narrative. Their worry over the bottom line means they often don't have the will to see their original vision through even if it's a good one, and so they may wind up losing substance so they can fly whatever direction the politically correct winds are blowing.

My curiosity is a bit piqued at the teaser, but I'm going to need to know a bit more about the story before I'll commit to buying a ticket. For me, it's all about storytelling and meaning.



We're moving forward but it's important to remember that a work is a product of the culture at the time. One can point to the song in "Peter Pan", "What Makes The Red Man Red" with disdain, but you also must note in the original work by J.M. Barrie, that the Indian tribe of Neverland was called the "Piccaninny tribe" -- a very blatantly racist term. Disney's hardly the only one at fault, and I dare say "Red Man" sounds somewhat nicer than "Piccaninny". It could well be considered a cultural step up from the source material.

And also, however critical I may be of their pandering today, remember that Disney is held to a higher standard than anyone else. After all, we see them as someone we're trusting with our children for a couple of hours... Today, they'd never get away, for instance, with something as simple as Mike Myers' pseudo-Hindi greeting, "Mariska Hargitay" in the movie "The Love Guru"... That could be offensive to Hindi speakers for making fun of their language...

 

[Deleted member 66627]

It's a Disney movie?

Then it's going to be one of the most carefully laid out and developed movies ever. Not only do we have to be careful of how many sexual innuendos are written into the story, but they have a legion of followers and fans which makes for pretty damn high expectations and possible criticism in every project that they take on.

Anything that holds possible racial content will be jumped on, picked apart and evaluated-- due to the goings on of today's society. The only way that will change is if.. well, who knows? I don't think it's ever going to change.

With all the cases being made now compared to back in the 40s when it wasn't such a big deal to smoke on TV for heaven's sake, are enough to make any massively working corporation tread extra lightly.

Throw in the fact that it's directed mainly for kids? And you open a whole 'nother line of judgment to be passed down on them.

Unfortunately the days of Fantasia and even Aladdin are gone. 🙁

 

[Tamia78]

How many Disney princesses carry a Southern accent?

How many narrating characters are shown with half their teeth with a southern accent? Did Jimmeny Cricket have a half toothless mouth with a horrible southern accent? Let me answer that with a big resounding "no"!! Tamia, the trailer has racial issues all over it and I'm surprised you'd even question why this is really wrong. Disney produces quality product with white characters; why do they see the need to dumb it down because the princess is depicted as black?

I can see why some people are pissed; I wouldn't take anyone to see this movie based on the trailer. If they don't fix it, the attendance ratings will be low and the movie considered "unsuccessful" because of poor quality choices.

This isn't a PC issue; it's a stuidity issue from Disney that's going to bite them squarely in the backside if they don't fix it!

Kis, you know I definitely wanted your opinion, Sis!

Do you think they were trying to "modernize" things like they do with other newer Disney movies (Cars, Finding Nemo)? They are in Louisiana, I guess someone thought it would be more real if she has a southern accent. But you have to realize that Disney has alot of ethnicities in their employ, but I have yet to see the "special features" section of a Disney DVD where a Black person is one of the creators. So, I guess they have to "wing it" as best as they could.
I do agree that the toothless bug is a little much, tho.

And it really does come down to this being a movie that our kids are going to see. The Peter Pan reference was a great example. I remember watching it as a kid, and I guess that's just what I thought Native Americans should sound like. Sad. And we grow up with this stuff? I had a different veiw of Black people represented in cartoons and movies because I am one, and my family doesn't act like that.

Honestly, I don't see a problem with the way Princess Tiana is depicted. She is a beautiful black woman, and isn't this what we want our children to see? I don't think children will even pick up on the bug's accent, if only just to mimic it because its funny. It's WE AS ADULTS who really have the issues here. So, should Disney cater to a bunch of adults, or should they just make the movie to the audience it is intended for..............Kids?

What are the other racial issues you see? This is exactly the reason I started this thread. I really don't understand what the issues are.

Keep it comin, everyone!

--T

 

[venray]

Gone are the days of cinderella, Snow white, Dumbo....and the REAL Disney classics..

All the newer like mermaid, beauty and several others are basically the same old cool heroine girl to play up to all the little princess wannabees....

No real depth to any of them any more...geared for the largest audience and towards selling product and that is why Disney caves when groups complain....the artistry and magic that was Disney faded after Walt died...

 

[brianspencer66]

Tamia though my opinion may not be wanted here well Im african american and feel I need to chime in also since you brought this up. For one there is nothing wrong with the princess in fact the frog has bigger lips then she does. I think the problem is historical. I grew up in a time when animated features were rife with racial stereotypes. Warner Brothers and Disney cartoons were full of mammies, picaninnies, jigaboos etc. So there are many black folks over 40 who are still very sensative about these things. These were extremely painful images for black folks to watch. The trailer in question though not that bad well I too had a problem with the toothless bug. So though to some blacks may seem a little hypersensative well its for good reason. There has been a long long history that young people simply are not very aware of.

 

[Tamia78]

Brian, I do understand about the history. I really do. I just feel like we're picking everything apart, and it's just time to move on. It's freakin 2008. Even if the creators were black, I think we would STILL find something to complain about.

I guess I'm just a "peace and love" kinda girl!

--T

 

[tickledorange]

A movie is coming out? It's controversial?? Oh...my....god!!! 🙄

I don't think there has been a movie yet that has not had some kind of controversy to it. All I'm going to say is:

More controversy a film causes = more hype = more $$$

 

[brianspencer66]

Brian, I do understand about the history. I really do. I just feel like we're picking everything apart, and it's just time to move on. It's freakin 2008. Even if the creators were black, I think we would STILL find something to complain about.

I guess I'm just a "peace and love" kinda girl!

--T

I agree its in peoples nature to complain somtimes its warranted and sometimes its not. But do understand African Americans are in a unique place in history and old pains just dont go away they linger. Thanks for pointing this trailer out it should generate intresting discussion.

 

[Soda83pop]

I agree with KIS on some of the issues she saw. I thought some of it (most of it, actually) was way over the top. Im admittedly overly sensitive to inferred racism, much less blatant racism, which is why I tend to avoid these threads all together. And I could see where some black women would have found the princess kissing the frog everywhere but where she is supposed to as a way to portray the "bitch" stigma that somehow is attached to any black woman who remotely appears to have her own mind ("You know, I dont recall in the book I HAD to kiss you on the lips"). Which believe it or not, I think that would stir up more shit than anyone portraying a black male as stupid (ie the bug) since its been going for so long most people are numb to it and expect it.

I wont be seeing it. But I wouldnt have been seeing it anyway. And this is where I dont agree with KIS.

The movie will make money, because its a cartoon. The kids will want to see it, and the parents will take them. They will buy the DVD. Disney wont feel it.

 

[venray]

You are right...the parents will take them and Disney will continue to rake it in....

 

[Tamia78]

And I could see where some black women would have found the princess kissing the frog everywhere but where she is supposed to as a way to portray the "bitch" stigma that somehow is attached to any black woman who remotely appears to have her own mind ("You know, I dont recall in the book I HAD to kiss you on the lips").

Whoa...I wasn't even thinking that one. I don't think that kids (the audience this movie is intended for) will pick up on that, either. I'm a black woman, and I'm a bitch because I wanna be, not because someone thinks I should be, lol. I guess this is why I say again.....aren't we getting a little too nitpicky? Why wouldn't you want to see this movie?

I'm not arguing for the sake of arguing, I love all you guys, but playing the devil's advocate for a bit here....picking your brain, if you will.

--T

 

[Fire_Sprite]

Geez. I don't remember anyone going apeshit over Mulan having narrower eyes or the toothless redneck tow truck in Cars. People are way to sensitive about this.

Why is everyone getting so mad? Do you think Disney bankrolled a multi million dollar animated film just so they could throw some subtle jabs at the black population? Yeah, there's a toothless cricket with a southern accent. Thats because the movie takes place in 1920's New Orleans. Hey remember the magic baboon with an african accent in the Lion King? I bet the people who made him were totally racist and it had nothing to do with the fact that the movie took place in fucking Africa.

 

[Soda83pop]

Whoa...I wasn't even thinking that one. I don't think that kids (the audience this movie is intended for) will pick up on that, either. I'm a black woman, and I'm a bitch because I wanna be, not because someone thinks I should be, lol. I guess this is why I say again.....aren't we getting a little too nitpicky? Why wouldn't you want to see this movie?

Again, Im admittedly overly sensitive (Im a caucasian male to boot), so take it for what its worth. When you stated there was controversy surrounding the movie, and invited us to watch the clip, thats what stood out to me more than any of the stereotypical physical qualities. Im not saying that anyone should have seen that angle, but it would not have surprised me if that was an angle someone had taken. I almost didnt even notice the little narrator bug.

And so no one thinks that I feel this way, I think head strong women in general are sexy, black or not. But I doubt I have to go into the details of the stigma attached to independent, intelligent black women of the last two decades.

Nitpicky? In some instances Im sure we are. But to this day, when toddlers are given the choice between two dolls (a blonde and an african american) even the african american toddlers consistently choose the blonde because she looks "smarter and prettier and nicer." You would be amazed at what kids figure out at such an early age.

I wouldnt see the movie simply because I dont watch disney cartoons...nothing more than that. And certainly not because of the trailer.

Why is everyone getting so mad?

Im not mad. Just talking. And yes, cartoon makers have bankrolled cartoons that took jabs at many races. Its a known documented fact...just watch a cartoon made before the 1980's...or any daffy duck cartoon for that matter.

 

[Fire_Sprite]

Im not mad. Just talking. And yes, cartoon makers have bankrolled cartoons that took jabs at many races. Its a known documented fact...just watch a cartoon made before the 1980's...or any daffy duck cartoon for that matter.

I'm not asking about 30 years ago. Hardly anyone who worked at Disney then is running things now.