What's your opinion of the "politics" of healthcare?

[ticklkitten]

....

 

[TKpervert]

Good topic.
I have no problem with high drug prices because developing new drugs and getting them approved is not cheap.
If drug companies can't make a profit, medical progress comes to a halt and even the drugs we take today will go away ( no profit = no drug company).
I suppose we could import our drugs from Bulgaria, but I sorta prefer Merck.

but..... thank God for generics.....
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[TKpervert]

She has serious malabsorption issues and her body doesn't appropriately absorb oral medications. I can't get her insurance company to cover it (an entirely different headache). But she can't afford the ****$350**** it costs a month to buy it herself either! To me, that cost is OUTRAGEOUS.

That sounds like a rare condition (malabsorption of oral drugs).

Could that be described as an orphan disease, which a minority of drug companys will persue to help the very few with no return ?

 

[giantfan121262]

My mother was disgnosed with Leukemia back in 1993, and it seems like she has had a constant battle with the insurance company on what they would cover her for, first, interfurion (sp), and now Gleevak (sp?). Recently, she was told that she yould have to pay $5,000 annually, out of pocket for her gleevak. After doing extensive research, she was able to get the cost covered. Once I get the details straight, I will share them with you.

It seems to me that insurance companies have pharmecies, and health care providers right where they want them. Unfortunetely, the people who wind up suffering are the patients. From the medication side, the general population has to pay so much more in co pays to fill prescriptions that they are going broke. From the providers side, their income is cut dramatically because the insurance company won't pay them for services rendered because it was above "reasonalbe and customary care". If you look at a statement of benefits, you will see that a provider will put in for an office visit of say, $300. Out of that $300, the insurance company will only pay $150. the patient will be responsible for their $20 (or whatever) co payment, and the doctor will be out the balance. As a result, I feel that the patient gets rushed out without getting the necessary time they need to treat whatever ailment they are receiving treatment for. They are relying on turnover to make up for the lost revenues. In other words, they will see many more patients to try to match the money they were getting for their services because the insurance pays quite a bit less, than they would charge someone off the street for their services. This is not to mention the increased cost for malpractice insurance because we live in such a litigious society today. I mean when someone sues a McDonalds for getting them fat, and WINS, that is just ludicrous.

 

[the wiz]

I started a thread some time ago about Government Provided Health care. Many of the members stated it would be a bad ideal. But, the health of American is steadily declining; kid dies from an infective TOOTH because his mother can't afford to take him to the dentist.

More people diagnose with some type of serious health problems, which could have been avoided with annual check-ups. but, most people can't afford the doctor visit and medications.

in my household our premiums has risen from $260.00 a month to $700.00 a month but the quality of services is drop at least 50%.

People being denied life saving procedures because it's deem as experimental; at one time hearth surgery was experimental, organ transplant was experimental, brain surgery was experimental.

The many raise for people rejecting governmental health care is it would cause a lot of money. If someone have a serious health problem and ends up at the emergency room, the hospital can't turn them away, since they can't pay the pill, hospital will push that cause directly to people with insurance. I.E. you and me, which means we're already paying for un-insured people.

More and more other counties has government provided health care, and their citizens are living longer and healthier. other counties are starting to take control of how corporations treats their employees in that country, mandatory 3 or 4 weeks a year in vacation at the starting leave. mandatory health care and personal time. 401k and tuition reimbursements. while all the time the corporations in American is cutting everything.

 

[maniactickler]

Get government out of the picture as much as possible and i think the health care system would improve.

 

[kis123]

Get government out of the picture as much as possible and i think the health care system would improve.

As much as I'm against government intrusion into the lives of its citizens, I believe they should shoulder the cost. Government funds so many unnecessary causes (a war that's unending, expensive, with no solution in sight) why not support the heath of the citizens that put them in office and they claim to serve?

I also work in the healthcare industry; I've seen doctors see from 24-38 patients a day. That is NOT quality service folks and it definitely affects the care the patients receive.

I've had 30-60 minute conversations with physicians on worksites where they are expected to perform procedures beyond the scope of their specialty. They're told if they don't do them, they can leave. This is a malpractice claim waiting to happen, but these clients are greedy and are willing to take the chance until they get busted.

Kitten, I know all about the "perks" pharm companies get; patients pay for those perks at prices they can barely afford. I know how insurance companies abuse doctors; the doctors are making the same money in the temporary field for the last five years. Would anyone here want to work for someone without a raise for five years? Certainly not!

I personally got a taste of medicaid politics recently; my son's medicaid was cancelled because some idiot didn't bother to transfer my new address (as his payee) when I moved over a year ago. My son's abilify is over 400 bucks/month. My son had a medication crisis since the group home he previously lived in didn't tell me about the medicaid issue or that he'd been sporadically taking his meds since January. A 10-day course of Abilify cost me 169.00 out of my pocket; man was I ever pissed!

And wiz, if I had to pay 700 bucks for health insurance, I think I'd kill myself! That's not an insurance premium, that's a mortgage payment! Your company should be ashamed of themselves! I can remember the days where employer sponsored healthcare meant just that-no copays and nothing out of pocket! What the hell happened?

I personally hope that there is a special place in hell reserved for insurance companies and that they're fitted with gasoline suits prior to getting there! They can share the company of oil execs and most politicians!

 

[tickleshotel]

This response is not relating to medications ,but it does relate to the Practice that I just experienced yesterday. My primary Doctor scheduled a Ultrasound & Stress test at the Local Hospital on a Outpatient Basis ,early in morning the Business office of Hospital called my house to tell me that those Tests were not covered ,and I would have to Pay the $500.00 Deductible,in addition to the Charge that the Nuclear Medicine Clerk would need in advance due to the IV that needed to be inserted... So I had to pay 500.00 plus another 100.00 before I could have anything done,and that is One of paychecks

 

[Iggy pop]

The problem with health care is that we have over 40 million people who do not have health insurance mainly because they can not afford it. These people do not get preventitive care. They do not go to the hospital when the problem is small. They only go to emergency room when the problem is huge and very expensive to treat. This in turn cause insurance coverage to raise and often hospitals to close down. The uninsured are big probelm in this county. The United States is a first world nation and its citizens deserve first world care. Health Care for United States citizens should never be a privledge, it should be a right.

 

[LindyHopper]

But I see ads for this med in SO many magazines and such and it's alternately amusing AND frustrating because I know no one will pay for it.

Direct marketing of drugs to consumers is basically evil. I understand that your patient had a good reason for needing this particular drug, but for the most part, magazine and TV ads just create demand among people who shouldn't be shelling out for that drug. Usually, there are less-expensive, covered equivalents that will work fine. Yet people see the ads, and like shopping for the best new car, think that's the brand that they need.

The Onion had a brilliant "news article" about this: Pfizer Launches 'Zoloft For Everything'

I mean, it's no wonder we have 80 year old patients driving to Windsor, Canada to get their medication cheaper. And that is just sad.

See, that right there is evidence that pharmaceuticals don't "really" cost as much as they do here. We're dealing with markups from pharmaceutical and insurance companies.

The many raise for people rejecting governmental health care is it would cause a lot of money.

It already costs a lot of money. Part of the reason that we're in the health care situation we're in is because our government foots the bill for the elderly, who cost the most to treat. As a result, a disproportionate amount of R&D has gone into treatments for diseases that afflict older people, because these companies know that anything covered by Medicare is essentially a blank check for them, and there's huge money to be made.

Now we have an ever-increasing number of mind-bogglingly expensive treatments to add another year or two to the life of a 90-year-old, covered by the U.S. government, while millions of American children aren't getting basic immunizations. If government coverage of health care applied to everyone, at least the distribution of resources would make more sense.

 

[LindyHopper]

Actually, here in MI (I guess maybe I assumed this was nationwide?) the local health dept has immunization supplies that are specifically intended towards uninsured children to assure that they get their vaccinations.

Similar services are available around here too, but access is still a major problem for most of the kids who need them.

Sort of surprising that the government (even if it's just the state) made a decision with healthcare that's actually looking at the future generations.

I don't think we necessarily need to attribute noble motives here - one estimate I've seen indicates that every dollar spent on childhood immunizations saves $13 down the road. That's their money they're saving.

The fact that this is even an issue in this country points to major problems with how our health care dollars are being used.

 

[Deuce]

Well we can all bitch about this but the sad facts are this, money makes the world turn and as long as politians need the money from HMOs and drug companies so they can get elected and given there vacations from the same companies I don't see must changing. Why donate 20 million to the poor for meds they need when they can donate it to elect someone who will hold off on making them sell there product at the same price they sell it to the rest of the world. Does Canada buy drugs in such bulk they can sell them so much cheaper then the U.S. why does the same pill a drug company make for my dog cost .25 but that same pill is sold to the public for 6.00 and lets not even think what a hospital bills you for that same 6.00 pill. I'm not sure how this works but how can Wal-Mart I think they are doing this only in Florida but sell the 100 most popular drugs for only pennies on the dollar, so I ask myself is Wal-Mart just crazy or is the public getting it up the old a$$ ? so next time your in line shaking your head that your paying 200.00 for a persciption remember this some elected offical or company rep is soaking up the sun down in the Cayman's.

 

[The Sean Man]

My company went on a new health plan this year. Last November we had an informative meeting to let everyone know how it would work. When all was said and done, it basically said that any single individuals in the company would have to pay $1,200 before the insurance kicked in and covered any expenses. When my buddy Dennis and I inquired what was going to happen to us if a bus ran us over on the first of January, before we had a chance to start paying the $1,200, the insurance agent paused and said:

"That would be bad."

 

[Tkltime]

There are so many good points and understandable misconceptions in this thread that it could be split into a dozen parts.

I’ve worked in health care for the past 15 years, and in primary care for the past 4.5 years in a private practice that has constantly struggled to stay afloat while maintaining quality care for our patients.

This is my opinion of some of what I’ve read here:

First off we live in a country that was founded on and continues to recognize capitalism as our driving force. As such, whomever has the most money will always have the loudest voice as far as our government is concerned. If our legislators only hear one side of the story they will always vote accordingly.

Pharmaceutical companies and insurance companies are responsible to their investors, and will do whatever they can to continually increase the value of their stock. It’s not realistic to expect them to voluntarily accept less profit than they feel they can make. They operate within the system as it exists, and the only way to change the way they operate is to change the system.

In 1993 first lady Hillary Clinton headed up a task force that produced a reasonably workable universal health care plan. It wasn’t perfect, but new legislation rarely is. That’s why we have the ability to modify it later. I won’t go into all the details, but here’s a link to a Wikipedia article that gives a brief synopsis of what happened and some good links to follow for more information.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clinton_health_care_plan


The plan was defeated by the kind of lobbying pressure that only big business can muster.

Here’s the thing; Our legislators cannot remain in office without our support. That was proven in the last election when many long time incumbents were sent packing. If we want things to change, then we have to change them.

Basically, quit yer bitchin and get involved!

Write your Senators and Congressmen. If they don’t vote the way you feel they should, then spend some time helping the campaign of someone who will.

And please, VOTE!

Be Well

 

[Deuce]

Kitten my ex works for Johnson & Johnson the Mc Neil Pharmaical divison (they make most of the tylonol products) now they have a company store there you can buy any J&J product at cost and what she spents on a nice gift basket she gives to friends for baby showers is unreal, they pack them with all the childrens tylonol products baby wipes and things like that and honestly I have her buy stuff for me there cause I can't buy the basket itself at the price they sell the entire gift basket. She buys all her cars though them as well cause they buy there sells reps new cars every year and she just picked a 2005 Saab for under 20,000.00 which she priced buying from a car dealer and told me the dealer can't even come close to matching the deal from J&J. So not to take away from the drug reps but do they really need a 50,000. company car ?. I love what they do there cause it makes my life easier during the summer they provide transportation for all the employees kids to and from there day camps and have a place they can play till the parent is done for the day. Now my brother-in-law my ex's brother is a doctor he took over the practice his father started over 30 years, now about 6 years ago a heathcare company by the name of Tenet Healthcare brough there practice from them and lets put it this way after that buy out he was able to buy a 750,000.00 home, now I'm very happy he can do this cause I see at family functions how long he's on the phone when he's on call that weekend so I agree with you 100% the hours they put in is unreal but my point with this is Tenet is now out of business they filed bankrupty (go figure) and doing that they closed 2 hospitals inside the city of Philadelphia. But why does a hospital need to buy a family doctors practice other then to get them to admit them into there hospital,so why are hospitals buying these pratices up cause they know they can get that money back when there admitted to that hospital.The Hospital down the street from me is always building new doctors offices and just redid they E.R. to handle over 200 people now but they need that cause this hospital is making money so now that ER is always full cause the people from the city come there now cause they don't have a family doctor and use the ER as there doctor which I'm sure you know happens. So is it true healthcare is only going to be for those who can afford it and is that was that 5.00 pill at Wal-Mart cost 50.00 there cause they now need to cover the ones who can't pay there hospital bills. I say lets cut off the 300.00 lunchs like you mentioned and heck I love to know how much money these companies are now spending on TV ads you can't turn a television on without hearing a drug commerical and in talking with my brother-in-law as a doctor he hates the patient coming in asking for drugs by name and complains about the sells reps cause there are so many they need to put aside almost 15 hours a week to fit them in, so maybe hold back on spenting millions of millions of dollars to get there name out there don't get me wrong I think it's great I can go get a pill and keep a hard on now for 3 days but I would give that up if they take that money and put it into a cure for something like the common cold or how about cancer or MS, I don't need to hear and watch Calis fight it out with Viraga for errects.

 

[Tkltime]

ticklkitten,

My reply to this thread was not meant to be a personal attack or to negate anything that you said. I feel the same way you do about the situation. My concern has been, and always will be for the people I serve.

My point is that you cannot expect the pharmaceutical companies to act any different from any other corporation just because they happen to have a product that is used in health care. I certainly don’t condone their marketing practices as ethical, however I believe that I can say without fear of being proven wrong that they are not illegal.

Our government exists as a representative body who’s sole purpose is to act in our best interest. So why don’t our representatives do that? In my opinion it’s because there is so much money offered to them by large corporations that they can’t possibly turn it down. Those catered lunches you talked about are a very small part of a vast marketing campaign that is carefully designed to make sure that business as usual continues indefinitely.

The only way I know of that we can make a difference is by identifying those legislators who receive large amounts of money from the pharmaceutical manufacturers as well as the insurance industry, and vote them out of office.

There is also the matter of our representatives being offered positions as so called “consultants” after they leave office that feature salaries in the high six figure range. Once again an unethical practice, but perfectly legal. Perhaps a grass roots campaign to get a constitutional amendment put on the ballet that would make this practice illegal, would at least bring this to the attention of the general public and force our representatives to show us where they stand on the issue.

Be well

 

[the wiz]

Direct marketing of drugs to consumers is basically evil. I understand that your patient had a good reason for needing this particular drug, but for the most part, magazine and TV ads just create demand among people who shouldn't be shelling out for that drug. Usually, there are less-expensive, covered equivalents that will work fine. Yet people see the ads, and like shopping for the best new car, think that's the brand that they need.

The Onion had a brilliant "news article" about this: Pfizer Launches 'Zoloft For Everything'


See, that right there is evidence that pharmaceuticals don't "really" cost as much as they do here. We're dealing with markups from pharmaceutical and insurance companies.


It already costs a lot of money. Part of the reason that we're in the health care situation we're in is because our government foots the bill for the elderly, who cost the most to treat. As a result, a disproportionate amount of R&D has gone into treatments for diseases that afflict older people, because these companies know that anything covered by Medicare is essentially a blank check for them, and there's huge money to be made.

Now we have an ever-increasing number of mind-bogglingly expensive treatments to add another year or two to the life of a 90-year-old, covered by the U.S. government, while millions of American children aren't getting basic immunizations. If government coverage of health care applied to everyone, at least the distribution of resources would make more sense.

I disagree the main reason why we’re in this mess is because or government do not believe in negotiations, the true reason is they get kick back from giving big corporations the contracts.

How is it a single person can called the hospital and negotiate their bill? Why is it the government pay more than 3 times more than what an item is truly worth? I know because I work for a government funded organization. It’s not encourage to spend money wisely, but to spend all you have in order for you to receive more the following year. If you don’t you will be penalized the amount of money you return to the government.

 

[LindyHopper]

I disagree the main reason why we’re in this mess is because or government do not believe in negotiations, the true reason is they get kick back from giving big corporations the contracts.

That's related to what I said. Anything the government is willing to pay for is a "blank check" for the corporation, incenting them to develop more products within the categories of "what the government is willing to pay for." The most profitable medical technologies are the ones that help the elderly, because, as you said, the government is willing to pay many times more than a product is "worth." Products than may or may not be covered by insurance companies are less likely to be profitable.

 

[Tkltime]

Sorry if I came off that I thought you were attacking me. I didn't.

And I see what you say about we shouldn't expect pharm companies to be any different from other huge corporations. I mean, they are in the business to make money... and a lot of it. And they're VERY good at it. Just about every other business is in it to make money as well no matter what their field of expertise.

But it's dirty. And I'm glad it's not my job because if it were I wouldn't be able to sleep at night. And I'm angry that people can and feel justified in what they do knowing what the end result is. I say, enjoy your shiny new SUV.. you'll look good in it driving your ass around in hell.

I feel the same way about insurance companies. I can understand not wanting to pay for more expensive medications without trying less expensive or generics first. But when patients have legit reasons for their "non formulary" prescriptions I'm pissed as all hell when they come back unpaid. They aren't the ones who have to call the patient and say "sorry, the only medication that works for you isn't covered by your insurance company. And I understand you can't afford it. So sorry."

I am.

On a more personal level, I'm in this business because medicine fascinates me and I love doing what I do. But the downside really sucks.

I agree with you completely.

 

[steph]

They do here too. Finding the right program to fit your family's needs is the challenge for those who don't know where to start. And, there are a lot of shady government characters (I work for neither the state, nor the county, nor the city, I'm in the private sector) who don't want to do the work involved. They'll tell a family, "Oh, I'm sorry, you just make too much money to qualify for the program" and the family just...accepts it as Gospel, walks away, feeling sad and dejected. It's enraging to have to explain to people, "What they told you was BS. You can make 10,000$ a month and still qualify for Medi-Cal." Yes, you'll have a huge SOC. But it's minor in comparison to what you'd pay without it.
XOXO

Actually, here in MI (I guess maybe I assumed this was nationwide?) the local health dept has immunization supplies that are specifically intended towards uninsured children to assure that they get their vaccinations.

QUOTE]