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Who's to blame for women being looked at as sex objects?

jugner

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My apologies for how I said it, I couldn't think of any other way to put it.

As you know the last Miss Teen America was stripped of her title for posing for Playboy, others have in the past too.

My question is, who do you think is more to blame for many mens view of women as sex objects, Men or Women? Most say men, which I'm inclined to agree with (I don't view women like that, and I'm a man living in the same world as they are). But don't you think the women that use their looks are every bit as to blame? When you agree to be Miss America, you're supposed to be a role model to young girls, that's a responsiblity you accept by accepting that crown. Isn't this just saying if you have looks, use them.

That was an example, but that's the way it is with a lot of women. They say they want to be role models, but when they are offered a check they forget all that.

Now it can be said, men don't have to buy these magazines, which is true, but in the same sense women don't have to pose for them. I also know not all women are like this, but not all men are pigs, and I've heard it said an inumerable amount of times.

I hear all the time, why do men buy these magazines or go to strip clubs or etc. Much more rarely do you hear, those women shouldn't do that. Men get blamed almost always.

I know if men didn't look the women wouldn't have incentive to keep it up, but if the women weren't there the men wouldn't look. I just don't see why men get almost all the blame. In a society of equal rights, shouldn't women also shoulder some responsibility?
 
who is to blame?

Sin
The Media
Men ingeneral (some men NOT all)
Howard Stern
Porn


etc


i hope that is what your asking. but if not then i put my foot in my mouth right now!
 
maniactickler said:
I believe God created man if im not mistaken. ;O

yeah he did your right. But its Satan and man that has turned Sex into something dirty and nasty. God never untended for Sex to be dirty and trashy (like Playboy Hustler HardCore xxx etc)


But sorry jugner. Back to your original idea towards this thread and your question
 
Last edited:
A different view...

Who's responsible? The human nature. Why?

Over 95% of human behavior is driven by instincts, not by rational decisions. Humans belong to a rather rare species with a sex drive which is active all year round. This means humans are extremely perceptive to a possible partner's attractions.

These attractions are somewhat different between the genders. Males are more focused on looks, whereas women are more attracted by an aura of success. Although male and female instincts are quite different, they work towards the same aim: mating.

Nowadays, mating doesn't automatically mean propagation. But to achieve a safe propagation rate for the species, the instincts are focused on the purely sexual gratification, not on an event which is nine months away. That's why we love sex.

For men as a more visually driven being, seeing beautiful women who reveal their sexual attractions is an erotic kick. It whets the sexual appetite. Therefore, offering this kick means satisfying a real demand, the basis of all business.

For women, this means they can exploit this male weakness for their own aims. Not necessarily by posing for nude photos, but they play their part in the mating ritual: Underline all bodily aspects of sexual attractivity, for example with a lipstick, their clothes, their perfume. Playing with the male sexual desire is one of mankind's oldest games.

I'm aware that these statements are grossly generalizing. But all the exceptions to this rule are irrelevant for describing the general mechanism of how sexuality works. IMO, you can't blame men for their instincts, or women for making use of those instincts. You can't blame them for being human.
 
To add to Hal's explanation:

To me, it can be a vehicle for self-expression, which may or may not be sexual in nature. Sometimes, a man can break down a woman's self-expressive actions to "man, look at how she dresses! She just wants to get fucked!" She may not view it that way at all. Just an alternative to piercing her eyebrows and having a chain going from the left side of her nose all the way to her ear.

One wishes Life were a simpler affair. But, it isn't.
 
from a girl's POV?

I say both~women for buying into it and providing it (porn stars, Pamela "blowup doll" Lee, etc.) and men for being dumb enough to think that someone might actually look like that (without 25k of plastic surgery, hair stylists, 4 hours of makeup, etc.) and wishing that the rest of us girls would follow suit. Plus the media for holding these shallow idiots up as role models 🙄 Just my 2 cents though, great question!

XOXO
 
I don't recall half time beauty pagents at the oylmpics
or the colliseum of days gone by but you can bet if
they had 'em, the women would have been quite bare!

Society dictates to foolish mortals!
 
Re: from a girl's POV?

steph said:
I say both~women for buying into it and providing it (porn stars, Pamela "blowup doll" Lee, etc.) and men for being dumb enough to think that someone might actually look like that (without 25k of plastic surgery, hair stylists, 4 hours of makeup, etc.) and wishing that the rest of us girls would follow suit. Plus the media for holding these shallow idiots up as role models 🙄 Just my 2 cents though, great question!

XOXO
😱 :yowzer: :yowzer:




I agree, whole heartedly. Men see these women who make their living and invest all of their time and money in their appearance and think, "Gee, I deserve to have a woman of those physical charms". Yet somehow they look in the mirror and see Adonis with charisma on steroids. They can't see that they are middle-aged with the resultant bagging and sagging and shifting of attributes. They forget they haven't laid eyes on their own belt buckles in years and perhaps they haven't lost their hair, it's just shifted down to their backs. They want the woman who cooks their meals, washes their clothes, cleans their houses and raises their children to look like the one who pampers herself for a living (and by the way, Hon, would you stop the lawn mower for a minute and run in to get me a beer and find me the remote?). (The whole "June Cleaver Syndrome", doing housework in heels and pearls comes to mind, but don't tell how old that makes ME!) How many of those stunning beauties will feel the need to cook your meals or wash your clothes? They want someone who can afford to hire the work out.
I would have to say, in some ways males have evolved more than females. With the emphasis on procreation, the female is attracted to the provider and protector and for the most part she still is. Males used to be attracted instinctively to sturdy women of good child bearing form, full hips, a certain softness and roundness that lends itself to feeding and nurturing a child. Now most of them seem to have a sense of entitlement to some androgenous form who happens to have breasts. Are all of us like that? No, of course not. But enough are, through the influence of the media, to leave the less than perfect females of the species to be dismissed as unworhty based on looks alone.
Sound like the rantings of a woman who finds herself lacking in the physical charms? Probably is. I'll be the first to tell you, I do not fall into the category of babe, but somewhere out there is a person who can appreciate a sharp mind, a sharper wit, boundless loyalty and hidden strength and I don't particularly care if he's four feet tall and five feet wide, if he can appreciate the attributes I do have and return the same to me.
 
Steph, 100% agree. Hal, I agree to a point, but saying 95% of what we do is instinctual and that we can't help our instincts, is like saying we're no better than an animal. Tactillian, it's our own fault if we let society dictate what we like.

Instinctual and societal pressures are not easy to overcome, I have at times, everyone has at some point. I just don't believe anyone should say we can't help it.
 
Re: A different view...

Haltickling said:
... women are more attracted by an aura of success.

If that's true, then I'm gonna go live in the mountains and never come back. That also explains why women love Donald Trump, despite his awful hairstyle.<a href='http://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=ZSzeb008_ZSXXXXXX41US' target='_blank'><img src='http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/1/1_4_84.gif' border=0></a>
 
jugner said:
Hal, I agree to a point, but saying 95% of what we do is instinctual and that we can't help our instincts, is like saying we're no better than an animal.
Animals are driven 100% by instincts. But our instincts are to a large part programmed by our surroundings, i.e. parents, teachers, friends, society as a whole. All our emotions are instincts, and more often than we like, our decisions are driven by our emotions, only that we tend to rationalize them.

Maybe somebody with professional psychology knowledge should comment on this. I got this info from one of them, but there might be different theories on the exact percentage.
 
Alot of it has to do with the concept of Survival of the Fittest. Who here have seen women be in love with guys who absolutely treat them like crap, and are not that good looking, because they are rich, stong, or are in some way in a position of power. And the women know this guy is a dick, but they stay with him. It started in the caveman days. The stronger or more able the caveman, the more a woman would partner up with him for survival. Throughout time the same concept applies. Women would hook up with guys who were rich, had land, orin some way are in a position of power. Like that big, ugly defensive lineman that had a girlfriend all the time because he was on the football team. Before it was solely a mans world, and women had to do and play whatever they could to get a man who was rich, had land, or some sort of status as that woudl reflect on them as well. And how could a woman attract a man? Through sex, or the promis of sex, with them. So anything or act that would achieve that goal would be done. Just go into a bar and you will see what I mean. Now women are becoming equals, which it should have been in the first place, and this concept and way of thinking may go by the wayside. It will take a while as it is so steeped in our culture and way of thinking, but it will go eventually. So the fact is that it is BOTH sexes who have used and abused this. Men have used it to show some sort of status, and women have used it to show some sort of status.
 
BlackmoonDoll said:
who is to blame?

Sin
The Media
Men ingeneral (some men NOT all)
Howard Stern
Porn


etc

Pretty nicely put, IMHO
 
Human nature really. Even if you have a fully clothed woman, you will have some men looking at her as a possible mate. BVecause, that is human nature. We are always on the look out for mates, though we have evolved.
 
there are some excellent points being made here, but one thing I haven’t seen anyone address, is that being a sex object can equal power. it’s not the best, or the most honest, tool to use in building the life you want… but for some women, it the only one they think they have. sad, but true.

nothing wrong with being sexy… but it’s the women who are sexy, strong, and intelligent, all at the same time, that I admire.

love the June Cleaver and her pearls reference. been there, done that. the pearls just about strangled me.
 
Ayla ny said:
there are some excellent points being made here, but one thing I haven’t seen anyone address, is that being a sex object can equal power. it’s not the best, or the most honest, tool to use in building the life you want… but for some women, it the only one they think they have. sad, but true.

nothing wrong with being sexy… but it’s the women who are sexy, strong, and intelligent, all at the same time, that I admire.

love the June Cleaver and her pearls reference. been there, done that. the pearls just about strangled me.


There is a big difference i feel being between Sexy and Proud of your body that God gave you. and being Slutty and Trashy jumping in everyguys bed and letting them give you anal and your all sucking on there Penises. Thats what i find wrong. i would never ever want a girl thats gonna be sleeping around on other guys while still going out with me :sowrong: :sowrong:
 
Yea, I have a friend, we've been friends since elementary school, I wouldn't be friends with him if I had just met him in the last few years. He's a male slut. He's 23, 6'3, 250lbs. He may sound chubby, but actually he's a bodybuilder. His dad was one, and a successful one. He hasn't started taking steroids, but plans too when he starts competing. Women love him. He has women come to his house at 3 or 4 in the morning just to have sex. I've told him his lifestyle is wrong and dangerous (I figure a women that will do that is probably promisqcuous), he says he knows, but it's hard to say no. I've explained to him it is a difficult choice, but it's still a choice, difficult is not the same as impossible.

Now a lot of people are saying it's just human nature. But I was talking to a professor of mine a while ago, he's Catholic, and I asked him if he thought it was natural for priests not to have sex. He said if a person cannot stop from acting on their urges, then your saying humans are no better than animals, who go completely on instincts.

Yes human nature is the cause of wanting to look a certain way or wanting someone who looks a certain way, but acting on it is a choice for you and you alone to make.
 
Why not answer?

This entire thread asks a question that deals with at least 20 different fields of scientific study...none of which have nailed down a direct answer. Since I'm not a scientist and this isn't a science site, I'll give you the short of it.

The human brain, for all of its complexity, can understand very little. It senses and knows very little about itself and has trouble conceiving things outside its range. For millennia, we thought we knew everything there was to know based on what we could see-hear-smell, etc., and it took very chancy investigation on behalf of some very daring people to figure out that that was false.

There are multiple light spectrums; we only see in one. There are innumerable ranges of sound; we perceive the narrowest. There are n-number of dimensions, we can only see 3 and can only imagine up to 5-6. Our perspicacity is limited, and thanks to our evolutionary heritage (our super-great decendants were prey items for predators), our first instinct is fear. Lack of knowledge or awareness allows this instinct to imagine countless methods of death, so out greatest fear is of the unknown. And if we don't know the answer, we quite often make it up and stick to it.

What we commonly forget is that ALL of our cultural and social values are over 1,000 years old. They were mostly developed in patriarchal societies with religious fervor and superstition that even the pious of today find ridiculous, and were very, very paranoid, biased and isolated. Thanks to their religious connotations, these beliefs and practices from the days of pre-science are still around, albeit diluted.

Globally speaking, the female is superior to the male, who is usually just a sperm bank. Human females have greater cognitive function, emotional interpretation, and biological advantages; the male is slower, shallower and lower-maintainence. It is primarily due to the female's delicate reproductive system that prevents her from surpassing the male in size and musculature. So in a way, it makes sense for men to be visual and women tobe less so. But keep this in mind: all mammallian lifeforms are inherently female or possess strong female traits in vivo...the male and female reproductive system comes from the same tissue. So while men and women have different biological imperatives...they all share the same genetic foundations. This may explain why we see conflicting behavior in men and women so often.

This is all stuff we've learned in the last 50 years...our perceptions of how women and men should behave are 300 times older than that. Remember how I said we stick to our illusions to stave off fear? That's where this comes in. Human sexuality is so complex that even after 4,000 years of endlessly talking about it, we still don't know anymore than the surface material. We know a little about human orgasm response conditioning, sexual mal- and dysfunction, abberrant maladaptation and male/female response, but other than that, not much. Othewise, homosexuality wouldn't be so controversial.

Men and women of today struggle with whether they should be themselves or whether they should try to adhere to the traditional modes of behavior: women, modest and sexless; men, promiscuous and macho. All of these things are endorsed and exaggerated by cultural beliefs. One argument you often hear in the so-called "culture wars" (again showing the human brain's limited perspective...dichotomy), is that "if something has worked for _____ long, then it works dammit!" But keep in mind that most of the things these values "protect" are based on common sense...giving them a religious or designating tint doesn't change how successful the following of them can be.

Don't kill/murder = d'uh, social organization falls apart with homicide.
Don't be promiscuous = STDs & emotional instability make living VERY difficult.
Don't dress provacatively = Males with aggressive sex drives tend to gravitate towards you.

All these things can be figured out by observation and deduction, and then later understood through science...IT'S NOT THAT HARD! IT JUST TAKES TIME! Even dirt-dwelling simpletons can figure that much out! But we still follow what remains of the old ways because tradition has not only given us a familiar concept, but our very identity as well: you are ____ behave this way. It's due to thousands of years of conditioning, and it is the main reason we see women as sex objects today.

Who's responsible for women being treated as sex objects? Culture. it tells women how to be, what to do, and what their purpose is. And it ignores all the holes in its logic to remain strong. It is these holes that pave the way for all the exploitation we see today. Women as sexual advrtsising and celebrity is due to the rigid condmentations on sex and sexual epxression to reinforce tribal-quality values of community. As long as these traditions remain based on culture and tradition rather than science, we will never see an end to the so-called "gender wars."

...Damn, I pulled a BigJim.
 
I tend to agree with Jugner's first post in that men are partially to blame, but so are women. It's a balance between the horniness of men and the vanity of women. Men will naturally tend to see women in a somewhat sexual context due to hormones and general masculinity. Women, in turn, succumb to and perpetuate this image because of their social nature and because so many of them like to be put on a pedestal. Understanding the male side of this equation is simpler, because as men, we're pretty blatant in our libido. The female side is a bit more subtle, so that's why I'm going to elaborate more on it.

In my experience, women seem to have a love-hate relationship with attention. They want to be noticed and emotionally nurtured, yet, they often go through moods of wanting to be alone. While the same could be said of men, the rationale behind women's behavior in this avenue is largely hormonal and societal. Whether or not they admit it, most women seem to enjoy being "sexually admired" -- as long as it's from the right guy. If a woman (who isn't married or in a serious relationship) is getting "checked out" by a guy she finds attractive as well, she's usually going to like it. By the same logic, she's going to probably dislike this same attention from a guy she isn't attracted to. Granted, in the case of bisexuals and homosexuals, you can add or replace other women to the equation.

I know this sounds like common sense so far, but here's where it gets tricky. Some women are truly exhibitionist; I've known plenty of them myself, and there are probably at least a few who even frequent this site. The reasons for this desire are varied, but overall, exhibitionism can be most concisely explained as the need to receive attention from all members of the opposite sex (and in the appropriate context or orientation, members of the same sex). Some women literally enjoy the idea of having a bunch of horny men (who often pay well) oggle over their body. Granted, I'm not saying that the majority of strippers or models feel this way, but there are enough of them out there to bring up this idea. With modelling in particular, it's a matter of vanity. I think it's pretty obvious that someone like Anna Kournikova was probably brought up in an environment where she quickly concluded that she was extraordinarily attractive. While some women don't like the kind of attention this entails, plenty of others do. I've known several very attractive women that have aspired to be models because they are well aware that they were blessed with the kind of physique that such a job requires. I honestly don't think most of these women who desire the kind of sexual attention that modelling and stripping involve really think about the societal repercussions of their professions. When a model goes to a photoshoot, the thought of a teenage girl starving herself to look like her in these pictures subsequently is probably the last thing on the model's mind.

Much of the societal pressures to look a certain way among women comes from women themselves. People always say that men are very visual, but women are too; they just focus on different things. Men often look at a woman's "assets," while women usually look at a guy's clothing. Yet, this female focus on clothing extends to other women (even in the case of straight women). Women are usually the ones that drive the fashion industry in a particular direction. Most fashion designers are women; granted, there are plenty of significant male designers as well, but if you'll notice, a lot of them are gay (which almost gives them a female perspective).

To explain these pressures in more detail, I offer the following blunt observations.... Most guys I know make a significant distinction about what they find attractive and what they don't. There are obviously varying degrees of attraction in our personal perspectives, but for the most part, we either find a girl attractive or not attractive. Sometimes, "not attractive" crosses into the category of "ugly," but in general, most girls that fall into "not attractive" are just plain or maybe a bit below average. Quite frankly, most American males don't go for fat women, for example. The problem herein lies the discrepancy between how men define fat and how women do. You'd think it would be a simple state of comparison involving body types, but once the female perspective comes into play, it gets a lot more complicated.

Many women I've known seem to define fat as anything that's wider than the girls you see in Maxim or in catalogues like Victoria's Secret. Granted, I realize that plenty of women are more sensible or realistic than that, but you have to take this perspective into account to understand much of the teenage female point of view. High school is obviously a very socially oriented environment. From what I remember of those days, kids seemed to judge each other by petty things like clothing, what car you drive, and general appearance. From what I understand, teenage girls tend to be even more judgmental toward each other in appearance and clothing than guys are. When you combine this tendency with the images presented by professional models, you end up with a lot of girls that develop eating disorders in order to "fit the mold." Ironically, many of these girls are already pretty close to the "thin ideal," but their insecurity leads them to think that they are fat.

Meanwhile, most of the teenage guys already know what they like when it comes to appearance, and many of them don't make much of a distinction between anorexic Ann and that model they oggle over in the latest Maxim. Quite frankly, what it often comes down to is a higher standard that is set for the girl by her female friends than the one that the guy has. Most guys aren't gonna care or even notice a 10 pound difference in their girlfriend, but the girl's friends will. What I'm trying to say is that unhealthy lifestyle habits among women often originate from images created and supported by women themselves. Once these habits and perceptions develop in high school, they often linger through the adulthood of many women.

In conclusion, it really is a matter of mostly women judging each other too harshly that leads to much of the "objectivizing" of women. Men obviously play a part in this, but we're generally less picky and scrutinizing about it.

As a final note, whether or not such objectivizing is a sin is dependent on your definition of sin. In my mind, a consensual act is not a sin. I've noticed that a few seem to have brought religion into this discussion, and for those of you that have, I have one question: why would God, of all things, care if you masturbate to porn? Why is pornography sinful? Lust may be considered one of the 7 deadly sins, but I believe the original context of its mentioning in scripture referred to things like rape. You can argue that premarital sex is sinful, but I'm pretty sure God (if he/she exists) doesn't partake in judging people by thought crimes.
 
Well as for as GOD and religion go, the Bible says that everyone is sinful from birth, at this point people can't do physically anything, so mental thoughts can be considered sinful.
 
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