Why do people not like police?

[Wolf]

Hello, Kettle...this is the pot...

I liked your original post, all of it, but wanted to comment on this. I agree that this is the case more often than it should be. And it pisses off those of us who are Dominant for all the right reasons. I'm hoping Bella comes along to back me up on this, because it's something we've discussed before. A true "Alpha Male" Dom mentality is something different than being a "control freak". You can't be a racist or misogynist and be an effective Dom. Not for long, anyhow. I don't have the tiniest bit of a misogynistic or racist bone in my body, but am a complete Dominant nonetheless. The emotion a Dom should be sharing with a Submissive; the balance between control and care, give and take, fulfillment and cross-fulfillment, the "owner" and the "caretaker", all of the roles involved...pretty much mean you have to have a more open view of a D/S relationship.

Just wanted to put that out there before a stereotype of Doms gets started inadvertantly.

Good post, though. It's nice to have the point of view of someone with some experience in these things. I have family in State and Federal law enforcment, and by virtue of my job, am friends with many Customs officers, Border Patrol, State Police and such. But that doesn't mean that I personally have any experience in it to form a frame of reference. Thanks for your point of view.

And thank you, for reminding me that in my rant against racists and ignorance, I was guilty of comically obvious hypocrisy in casting such a wide net about pseudo-Alpha male Doms. (and my own prejudice thus revealed) Point well taken.

 

[drew70]

By the way, anyone else notice how many self-proclaimed bad-ass "dominant" types are not only not-so-closeted misogynists,

I've noticed this a lot, particularly in BDSM environments. Certain self-proclaimed "masters" who talk a good game of loving, caring, respecting, etcetera etcetera ad nauseum...but once all the fluff is stripped away, they are simply misogynistic sadists who get off on thumping women.

...but also not-so-closeted racists?

Can't say I've personally observed this.

It's all about trying to justify your fear, while concealing it....isn't it?

I disagree. I'm not a fan of hatred myself, but there are other factors that can bring it about. Though it's very popular in today's politically correct society to blame any resistance to the all-inclusive philosophy solely on fear and/or ignorance, the reality is that these are only two of many things that can bring about intolerance.

 

[LindyHopper]

The statistics I posted are not opinions. They are facts taken directly from US Census websites and Criminal Justice System websites. Interpereting these numbers, I formed an opinion that makes sense to me.

Yes. But you are making a common error in interpretation: that the fact that more African Americans are in jail must mean that they must commit more crimes.

One well-studied example of "systematic racism" involves sentencing for drug crimes. In the United States, the distribution of 5 grams of crack carries a minimum 5-year federal prison sentence. For powder cocaine, distribution of 500 grams carries the same sentence. That's 100 times the amount of crack cocaine, and that's no opinion. 😉 And it just so happens that powder cocaine is a drug of choice among whites, and crack more common among blacks.

But that's not all! We're also looking at racial disparities in sentencing. For example, 66% of crack cocaine users in the United States are white or Hispanic. However, in 2003, African Americans constituted more than 80% of the defendants sentenced under the federal crack cocaine laws, and whites a mere 7.8%. The result is that blacks spend a lot more time in jail for drug offenses than whites do. In fact, an African American serves an average of 58.7 months in prison for a drug offense. To give you a comparison point, whites serve an average of 61.7 months in prison for violent offenses.

I'm not mad at you, Viper, nor am I trying to attack you with this post. I'm just trying to provide some factual information that might contribute to your understanding of why we have a disproportionate number of African Americans in prison in the United States.

 

[ViperGTS]

Yes. But you are making a common error in interpretation: that the fact that more African Americans are in jail must mean that they must commit more crimes.

One well-studied example of "systematic racism" involves sentencing for drug crimes. In the United States, the distribution of 5 grams of crack carries a minimum 5-year federal prison sentence. For powder cocaine, distribution of 500 grams carries the same sentence. That's 100 times the amount of crack cocaine, and that's no opinion. 😉 And it just so happens that powder cocaine is a drug of choice among whites, and crack more common among blacks.

But that's not all! We're also looking at racial disparities in sentencing. For example, 66% of crack cocaine users in the United States are white or Hispanic. However, in 2003, African Americans constituted more than 80% of the defendants sentenced under the federal crack cocaine laws, and whites a mere 7.8%. The result is that blacks spend a lot more time in jail for drug offenses than whites do. In fact, an African American serves an average of 58.7 months in prison for a drug offense. To give you a comparison point, whites serve an average of 61.7 months in prison for violent offenses.

I'm not mad at you, Viper, nor am I trying to attack you with this post. I'm just trying to provide some factual information that might contribute to your understanding of why we have a disproportionate number of African Americans in prison in the United States.

Now see, THIS is the kind of post I was praying for.

Beautiful. I am not one to predicate a decision or opinion based on conjecture, only facts and experiences. This post is VERY helpful. I've been thinking about this whole discussion thew past few days and I've been taking everyone's points into consideration.

And Cosmo, thank you for making the effort to understand. I guess the reason I feel the way I do is the same reason so many people dislike cops; bad experiences.

 

[tickledgirl]

Yes. But you are making a common error in interpretation: that the fact that more African Americans are in jail must mean that they must commit more crimes.

One well-studied example of "systematic racism" involves sentencing for drug crimes. In the United States, the distribution of 5 grams of crack carries a minimum 5-year federal prison sentence. For powder cocaine, distribution of 500 grams carries the same sentence. That's 100 times the amount of crack cocaine, and that's no opinion. 😉 And it just so happens that powder cocaine is a drug of choice among whites, and crack more common among blacks.

But that's not all! We're also looking at racial disparities in sentencing. For example, 66% of crack cocaine users in the United States are white or Hispanic. However, in 2003, African Americans constituted more than 80% of the defendants sentenced under the federal crack cocaine laws, and whites a mere 7.8%. The result is that blacks spend a lot more time in jail for drug offenses than whites do. In fact, an African American serves an average of 58.7 months in prison for a drug offense. To give you a comparison point, whites serve an average of 61.7 months in prison for violent offenses.

I'm not mad at you, Viper, nor am I trying to attack you with this post. I'm just trying to provide some factual information that might contribute to your understanding of why we have a disproportionate number of African Americans in prison in the United States.

That happens on smaller scales too. In the Jena, there were lots of cases of high school kids fighting. The white kids got misdemeanor "disturbing the peace" charges. The black kids got charged (with one conviction!) with attempted murder.

 

[LindyHopper]

Now see, THIS is the kind of post I was praying for.

Beautiful. I am not one to predicate a decision or opinion based on conjecture, only facts and experiences. This post is VERY helpful. I've been thinking about this whole discussion thew past few days and I've been taking everyone's points into consideration.

Cool. 🙂 I'm glad my post was helpful. And TG's right: drug sentencing is only one example of differential treatment on the basis of race that contributes to African Americans' overrepresentation in the U.S. prison population. I haven't done the legwork on this, but I suspect that if you checked the average sentence given for any crime, from shoplifting all the way to murder, you would find that the average black convict receives a harsher sentence than the average white convict. This goes a long way towards explaining why at any given moment, there are so many more African Americans in prison.

 

[NMKamikaze]

I hate cops because they are so fuckin' nosy and they think they're tough. If they didn't have those guns, tasers, and pepperspray, they'd be gettin' their asses owned 24/7 cuz God knows they can't fight... Fuck the police!!!

 

[ViperGTS]

I hate cops because they are so fuckin' nosy and they think they're tough. If they didn't have those guns, tasers, and pepperspray, they'd be gettin' their asses owned 24/7 cuz God knows they can't fight... Fuck the police!!!

Wow.

I....wow.

You know what, I am going to walk away from this one because it's just too, too easy, and I will get myself in trouble if I take the bait... rofl.

*snickers*

 

[kis123]

Now see, THIS is the kind of post I was praying for.

Beautiful. I am not one to predicate a decision or opinion based on conjecture, only facts and experiences. This post is VERY helpful. I've been thinking about this whole discussion thew past few days and I've been taking everyone's points into consideration.

And Cosmo, thank you for making the effort to understand. I guess the reason I feel the way I do is the same reason so many people dislike cops; bad experiences.

I've been looking at this post for awhile and I keep coming to the same conclusion. So let me see if I have this right:

I and other posters told you the same thing and you chose not to listen and even be combative with your responses. Lindy and Cosmo say it and it becomes the response you've been praying for. Why is that so? Is it because prior to her response all but one of us telling you this were black? So you didn't believe our experience to be true until non-blacks clarified it for you right??

Am I still out of context?

 

[LindyHopper]

I and other posters told you the same thing and you chose not to listen and even be combative with your responses. Lindy and Cosmo say it and it becomes the response you've been praying for. Why is that so? Is it because prior to her response all but one of us telling you this were black? So you didn't believe our experience to be true until non-blacks clarified it for you right??

No, I don't really think that's it. I think my post had numbers in it, so that gave me a leg up. 😛

But seriously... I think it's because umbrage, in and of itself, isn't likely to change anyone's mind. If a listener has to spend all his energy defending himself, then that leaves little time and space in which to absorb new information, even if that information is valid. If not being black enabled Cosmo and I to speak about this issue with a bit of emotional distance and a lack of personal offense, then that might have helped us formulate our viewpoints in a way that would make them more likely to be heard.

 

[ViperGTS]

No, it's because instead of being constructive and helpful with making me understand another point of view, you're an asshat.

I presented statistics and facts that were immediately available to me and you responded with 😡 . LindyHopper and Cosmo Ac, instead of getting their back up and getting all defensive, took my perspective into consideration and explained why it might be flawed.

I'm not perfect and I admit I could have said things differently in this thread, but try using your brain instead of your anger to make a point and maybe people will take you more seriously without just thinking you're an aggressive moron.

 

[chicago]

try using your brain instead of your anger to make a point and maybe people will take you more seriously without just thinking you're an aggressive moron.

Excuse me, Mr. Kettle? There's a pot calling for you...

 

[WorkInProgress]

Let me put forth two propositions here.

(1.) Nobody disputes that black Americans are overrepresented in both the poor population and the criminal population. Moreover, nobody disputes that there are many people who fit the stereotypes associated with their respective groups.

(2.) Under no circumstances whatsoever is it acceptable to apply a stereotype to a person on the basis of membership in a group, or to bestow second-class citizenship on a person due to membership in a group.

So, what am I saying? Yes there's a rational statistical basis for racial profiling, and yes, racial profiling is still a heinous crime that must not be tolerated under any circumstances. That's not a contradiction; it's the truth. So, no matter what statistics you can cite that support stereotypes, there's still no basis to imply that acting on such stereotypes in law enforcement and other public policy areas is tolerable, because there is no higher principle than that nobody can rightfully be punished for another person's action, and that principle is absolutely more important than the principle that every crime must be solved and every criminal locked up. Our society is based on rights as well as on law-and-order, and if some citizens are going to be second-class citizens, then our country is a failure and there's nothing worth either defending or singing patriotic songs about. Defend racial profiling and you're asking your country to be a failure.

Now, someone said earlier that racial profiling was an invention of the Sharpton crowd. Wrong. It is a fact that there have been state troopers who have systematically followed a strategy of "There's a well-dressed black man driving an expensive car, I'm going to stop and search him to see if he's running drugs." That's racial profiling, and even if you can furnish the statistics to show that this strategy nets a harvest of arrestable suspects who happen to fit that stereotype, it's still something that can't be tolerated in a democratic society. Why? Because a black person, no matter what any disproportionate number of other black people happen to be doing, still has an absolute right to be a fully equal citizen in this country, and anybody who engages in an action that deprives one of that right is just as insidious a criminal as any drug runner or any burglar, because that is a full-scale theft.

So, what needs to be said to police is, "We know exactly why you engage in racial profiling, and we're still not going to let you do it, not at all, not even a little bit now and then."

 

[kis123]

No, it's because instead of being constructive and helpful with making me understand another point of view, you're an asshat.

I presented statistics and facts that were immediately available to me and you responded with 😡 . LindyHopper and Cosmo Ac, instead of getting their back up and getting all defensive, took my perspective into consideration and explained why it might be flawed.

I'm not perfect and I admit I could have said things differently in this thread, but try using your brain instead of your anger to make a point and maybe people will take you more seriously without just thinking you're an aggressive moron.

Are you talking about me or yourself little boy???

I'm not nearly as angry as I was; I'm a mature adult who can handle anything you think you can throw at me. Unfortunately for you, you cannot say the same. You're no more than a sandbox player-you need to pick up your toys and go home. It's well after dark and we wouldn't want the racially-profiled black people.........oh I mean the boogeymen to get you!

Oh, so now you've reduced yourself to name calling and mud slinging. Pity, pity, pity! Threating to punch my lights out wasn't enough! While you're calling me an asshat, you'd better check yourself little boy because you're making yourself look bad again!

Did you call me aggressive? You're just angry because a woman is taking you on mr I-think-I'm-a-just-a-wannabe-dom!! You're no more than a coward who thinks you can bully someone. You're immature and childish and pretty pathetic from here. Stick to your computer games little boy because you simply can't handle what I can bring you!

Oh and one more thing; as far as me using my brain is concerned, I'm working on my Masters degree little boy. What are you working on? You need to work on not looking like an idiot when you go to the keyboard. How about that for using your brain??

Give me a shout little boy when you can present an intelligent POV. I won't hold my breath waiting on you!

Better an asshat than an asshole!

 

[ViperGTS]

Excuse me, Mr. Kettle? There's a pot calling for you...

Rofl. Stop taking shit out of context and trying to turn it around, sweetie. *pats on the head* I know you think you're Little Miss Sanctimonious, all brave and witty behind your keyboard, but now you're just being bitter and more or less annoying.

I'm not perfect and I admit I could have said things differently in this thread, but try using your brain instead of your anger to make a point and maybe people will take you more seriously without just thinking you're an aggressive moron.

The pot only calls the kettle black when the pot thinks he can do no wrong.

 

[kis123]

Excuse me, Mr. Kettle? There's a pot calling for you...

'Nuff said

 

[kis123]

Let me put forth two propositions here.

(1.) Nobody disputes that black Americans are overrepresented in both the poor population and the criminal population. Moreover, nobody disputes that there are many people who fit the stereotypes associated with their respective groups.

(2.) Under no circumstances whatsoever is it acceptable to apply a stereotype to a person on the basis of membership in a group, or to bestow second-class citizenship on a person due to membership in a group.

So, what am I saying? Yes there's a rational statistical basis for racial profiling, and yes, racial profiling is still a heinous crime that must not be tolerated under any circumstances. That's not a contradiction; it's the truth. So, no matter what statistics you can cite that support stereotypes, there's still no basis to imply that acting on such stereotypes in law enforcement and other public policy areas is tolerable, because there is no higher principle than that nobody can rightfully be punished for another person's action, and that principle is absolutely more important than the principle that every crime must be solved and every criminal locked up. Our society is based on rights as well as on law-and-order, and if some citizens are going to be second-class citizens, then our country is a failure and there's nothing worth either defending or singing patriotic songs about. Defend racial profiling and you're asking your country to be a failure.

Now, someone said earlier that racial profiling was an invention of the Sharpton crowd. Wrong. It is a fact that there have been state troopers who have systematically followed a strategy of "There's a well-dressed black man driving an expensive car, I'm going to stop and search him to see if he's running drugs." That's racial profiling, and even if you can furnish the statistics to show that this strategy nets a harvest of arrestable suspects who happen to fit that stereotype, it's still something that can't be tolerated in a democratic society. Why? Because a black person, no matter what any disproportionate number of other black people happen to be doing, still has an absolute right to be a fully equal citizen in this country, and anybody who engages in an action that deprives one of that right is just as insidious a criminal as any drug runner or any burglar, because that is a full-scale theft.

So, what needs to be said to police is, "We know exactly why you engage in racial profiling, and we're still not going to let you do it, not at all, not even a little bit now and then."

Thank you. There's nothing else to be said here.

 

[ViperGTS]

Wait a second...

"I'm a mature adult who can handle anything you think you can throw at me."

"Oh, so now you've reduced yourself to name calling and mud slinging. Pity, pity, pity!"

Followed by...

...1.sandbox player...2.little boy...3.mr I-think-I'm-a-just-a-wannabe-dom...4.coward...5.immature...6.childish...7.pathetic...8.little boy...9.little boy...10.idiot...11.little boy...12.asshole!

I remember this episode. It was called 8th grade...

ANGER!! RAGEEE!!!11!!!!!!!one!!! ANGST!

Seriously though, if this is how you act in every day life, I'm a little concerned for your mental health. It seems like you have some issues with anger management and self control...might want to see a doctor, seriously.

Back on topic: I never said that profiling was right or just in any way. I said there's a reason for it. Reason doesn't equal justification.

 

[chicago]

Listen, Viper, you constantly start these threads in which everyone knows it will cause pointless arguments among people. The majority of your posts are condescending, rude, or pointless.

All I'm saying is, as you're a potential producer of tickling vids, I'd suggest taking some of your own advice, thinking before you speak, and trying not to alienate an entire race of people from buying your products.

Thank you, that is all.

 

[ViperGTS]

Listen, Viper, you constantly start these threads in which everyone knows it will cause pointless arguments among people. The majority of your posts are condescending, rude, or pointless.

All I'm saying is, as you're a potential producer of tickling vids, I'd suggest taking some of your own advice, thinking before you speak, and trying not to alienate an entire race of people from buying your products.

Thank you, that is all.

See, this is something I can respond to. Thank you for being a little more constructive and a little less smart-ass, it's refreshing and alot more effective.

Your point is taken.

While we're doling out advice, I would recommend pulling back on the reigns a bit when it comes to the snide and underhanded remarks. They're little more than annoying and rarely contribute to a thread's discussion.

 

[Fire_Sprite]

Well, Kis feels there's nothing left be said on her part... again. Viper got his closing arguement, not a particularly elegant one, but it'll do. Friendships were destroyed, absolutely nothing was established, and 90% of the forum is avoiding this thread like the plague.


To commemorate the end of this horrible event, I give you a shrimp on a treadmill.

 

[ViperGTS]

I give you a shrimp on a treadmill.

I literally just saw this today on TV at work. They were trying to research why cockroaches and shrimp can run so freakin fast (in the roach's terms, 50X it's body length in one second, equivalent to over 170mph if it were a human running that fast). Turns out, it's because of their joints and the structure of their legs.

 

[kis123]

Wait a second...



Followed by...



I remember this episode. It was called 8th grade...

ANGER!! RAGEEE!!!11!!!!!!!one!!! ANGST!

Seriously though, if this is how you act in every day life, I'm a little concerned for your mental health. It seems like you have some issues with anger management and self control...might want to see a doctor, seriously.

Back on topic: I never said that profiling was right or just in any way. I said there's a reason for it. Reason doesn't equal justification.

Nothing wrong with my mental health. Something seriously wrong with yours. Everything you claim to think I need is really a cry for mental intervention for you. You're a silly little boy trying to deal with a grown woman. At some point you have to just let it go. Just let it go Viper......

Seriously speaking, you're little more than a bad joke. Grow up, get a real life and give me a shout when you really can hang with me.

At least there's room for medical intervention. I really think you're beyond such. But keep exposing yourself-it's pure entertainment to me sweetie.

Just pitiful from here...........😡

 

[kis123]

Back on topic: I never said that profiling was right or just in any way. I said there's a reason for it. Reason doesn't equal justification.

Now you're flat out lying!!!

You were the one who used this so-called information to justify your rantings and ragings. You were the one who pointed at so-called statistics. You're the one who flipped the so-called apology (which btw, anyone with half a bran knows you were doing it to appease bella) because you got backed against a wall.

You're pathetic! I've already exposed you to who and what you really are little boy!! You think you can run with the big dogs, but you're merely a puppy! Call me when you grow up and can think beyond the stats! Call me when you can hold an intelligent conversation without losing your short temper. Give me a holler when you learn to debate without the name calling and mud slinging.

In other words, please notify me when you actually grow up and can give me something to actually work with.

I'm going to ride you like Seabiscuit until your sorry you-know-what actually gets a clue. I'm not going anywhere my dear. Learn how to live with it!!

 

[ViperGTS]

Give me a holler when you learn to debate without the name calling and mud slinging.

Same Post:

...lying...pathetic...little boy...puppy....short temper...grow up...sorry you-know-what...

Keep going, this is kinda fun.

edit: 100 posts in this thread. Wow. 76 of them weren't useful at all and about 32 of those were mine, I think. :/

[/thread]