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Women Want A**h*les
- Thread starter ShiningIce
- Start date
I always wanted a man who would make me feel safe. And, unfortunately, because they scared me, bad boys seemed like they could keep me safe. Some pretty flawed logic there… but if you knew a little about the way I grew up, it would make more sense.
I ended up dating some REALLY bad boys and marrying a total control freak.
Then I grew up. Realized that I didn’t need a dangerous man, a mean man or a control freak to feel safe. I needed a strong man. Not necessarily one who could bench press me lol but one with strength of character. One who always stands up for what he believes is right and believes that making sure I know how much I am loved… is one of those things.
I wish I’d met him in kindergarten.
Ayla – reformed bad boy magnet. 🙂
I ended up dating some REALLY bad boys and marrying a total control freak.
Then I grew up. Realized that I didn’t need a dangerous man, a mean man or a control freak to feel safe. I needed a strong man. Not necessarily one who could bench press me lol but one with strength of character. One who always stands up for what he believes is right and believes that making sure I know how much I am loved… is one of those things.
I wish I’d met him in kindergarten.
Ayla – reformed bad boy magnet. 🙂
Red_Feather
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A lot of shy guys seem to want to blame women for their lack of relationships. 'She doesn't want to know me. She wants a Jerk, since She obviously doesn't want a nice guy like me.'
I think that the reality is that Girls would love to have a nice guy, but the problem is that we are too self conscious to make any moves. This means that rather than showing we are nice guys, we just seem distant and removed...and no girl will be attracted to that.
I've tried to be outgoing, and it's harder than it looks, for someone who has been introverted all their life. I'll keep trying, but at the moment I'm not so optimistic. 🙁
I think that the reality is that Girls would love to have a nice guy, but the problem is that we are too self conscious to make any moves. This means that rather than showing we are nice guys, we just seem distant and removed...and no girl will be attracted to that.
I've tried to be outgoing, and it's harder than it looks, for someone who has been introverted all their life. I'll keep trying, but at the moment I'm not so optimistic. 🙁
Sunday_10pm
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A random assortment of my thoughts...
Butterfly wings: You say women deserve better than to be jerked around, but they choose those guys. They make the choice to stay with them for years in abusive relationships. I'm not saying I like jerks, but they only act the way they do because women (ESPECIALLY attractive ones) consistently respond so positively to it. These guys get everything they want by treating women the way they do. Don't blame them for not wanting to change.
But don't blame women either. Everyone says women make decisions based on their emotions, and men use logic. You know - "Women's Inuition"? But what does 99% of nice guys actually offer an attractive woman? These women go through their life with so many guys wanting their love, just because of their looks. So you're a nice guy? All you want is her love, right? You will be completely faithful to her and you won't jerk her around. How can she refuse? Put yourself in her shoes: you're offering something that is of no value whatsoever. Women are drawn to badboys not just because they're exciting, it goes deeper than that. In almost everything they say and do in their badboy manor, they subcommunicate higher value than a nice guy precisely BECAUSE they ARE NOT nice. A hot girl will gravitate towards a guy who doesn't need her, and shows no kindness to her, even abuses her because, subconsciously the emotions those guys stir in her makes her FEEL like she's found someone of higher value than the nice guys who'll offer her love, exclusivity, a free drink, all that stuff she doesn't need and is sick of being offered.
Sometimes I think men's thinking on women is so stupid it's verging on insanity: Some guys think that when a woman says no when you offer to by her a drink, that she's being a bitch. What? She says no because you aren't offering anyone else a drink - You want something in return and she knows she doesn't want to give it to you, so she turns down your part of the deal out of politeness rather than taking your money, and wasting your time. Even if she's abrupt about it, is that really being a bitch?
Despite all this, I still cannot understand why so many really intelligent women are such bad judges of character. I mean I'm pretty sure I know why they FEEL the way they do about jerks, but why can't they see it themselves?? They don't even realise what's going on!
This means it's up to you to figure out how to stop being a nice guy and become a great man so you can win the love of the woman you love and save her from all the jerks who'll hurt her.
If you want a great woman, you have to figure out what it means to be a great man, and if you're a nice guy, you have to actually stop being nice (amongst other things). It doesn't mean you have to be a jerk. You just have to figure out what a woman REALLY wants from a man.
There are several common types of men I think:
Great Men - Rarest by far, very attractive to all mentally healthy women.
Badboys/Jerks - Relatively common, attractive to many women.
Needy Nice Guys - Most common, largely unnatractive, especially to women of high value.
Learn how to be the top one ;-)
Butterfly wings: You say women deserve better than to be jerked around, but they choose those guys. They make the choice to stay with them for years in abusive relationships. I'm not saying I like jerks, but they only act the way they do because women (ESPECIALLY attractive ones) consistently respond so positively to it. These guys get everything they want by treating women the way they do. Don't blame them for not wanting to change.
But don't blame women either. Everyone says women make decisions based on their emotions, and men use logic. You know - "Women's Inuition"? But what does 99% of nice guys actually offer an attractive woman? These women go through their life with so many guys wanting their love, just because of their looks. So you're a nice guy? All you want is her love, right? You will be completely faithful to her and you won't jerk her around. How can she refuse? Put yourself in her shoes: you're offering something that is of no value whatsoever. Women are drawn to badboys not just because they're exciting, it goes deeper than that. In almost everything they say and do in their badboy manor, they subcommunicate higher value than a nice guy precisely BECAUSE they ARE NOT nice. A hot girl will gravitate towards a guy who doesn't need her, and shows no kindness to her, even abuses her because, subconsciously the emotions those guys stir in her makes her FEEL like she's found someone of higher value than the nice guys who'll offer her love, exclusivity, a free drink, all that stuff she doesn't need and is sick of being offered.
Sometimes I think men's thinking on women is so stupid it's verging on insanity: Some guys think that when a woman says no when you offer to by her a drink, that she's being a bitch. What? She says no because you aren't offering anyone else a drink - You want something in return and she knows she doesn't want to give it to you, so she turns down your part of the deal out of politeness rather than taking your money, and wasting your time. Even if she's abrupt about it, is that really being a bitch?
Despite all this, I still cannot understand why so many really intelligent women are such bad judges of character. I mean I'm pretty sure I know why they FEEL the way they do about jerks, but why can't they see it themselves?? They don't even realise what's going on!
This means it's up to you to figure out how to stop being a nice guy and become a great man so you can win the love of the woman you love and save her from all the jerks who'll hurt her.
If you want a great woman, you have to figure out what it means to be a great man, and if you're a nice guy, you have to actually stop being nice (amongst other things). It doesn't mean you have to be a jerk. You just have to figure out what a woman REALLY wants from a man.
There are several common types of men I think:
Great Men - Rarest by far, very attractive to all mentally healthy women.
Badboys/Jerks - Relatively common, attractive to many women.
Needy Nice Guys - Most common, largely unnatractive, especially to women of high value.
Learn how to be the top one ;-)
Last edited:
maniactickler
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Well said Sunday. 
CaptainQuantum
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Well said on any day of the week actually. 😀
Here comes my 2 cents. Major generalizing coming...
First, men try to separate the women they want to date ("easy" or "fun" women) from the women they want to marry ("nice" or "quality" women). Women don't think this way, they think about marrying their boyfriend regardless of their original intentions in dating him (i. e. because he's "fun" or "good-looking").
I know a lot of women who never really asked themselves how good a husband and father their current spouse would be before getting married. For a variety of reasons, this mistake hurts women more than men.
Second, it's not really a mystery why so many women date and marry guys well below the quality level they could get. It originates with Dad. Absentee, abusive, neglectful, or just incapable, dad can mess up a daughter's future relationships more than anyone. Of course, Dad can also be excellent, and this makes a night and day difference.
This is why so often after a divorce, the man has learned nothing, and the woman has learned a lot. It's often her first real experience dealing with a man, when dad was kinda useless or distant. Mom is pretty rarely useless or distant, and guys don't seem to be messed up the same way when mom is a poor parent.
2 cents over.
First, men try to separate the women they want to date ("easy" or "fun" women) from the women they want to marry ("nice" or "quality" women). Women don't think this way, they think about marrying their boyfriend regardless of their original intentions in dating him (i. e. because he's "fun" or "good-looking").
I know a lot of women who never really asked themselves how good a husband and father their current spouse would be before getting married. For a variety of reasons, this mistake hurts women more than men.
Second, it's not really a mystery why so many women date and marry guys well below the quality level they could get. It originates with Dad. Absentee, abusive, neglectful, or just incapable, dad can mess up a daughter's future relationships more than anyone. Of course, Dad can also be excellent, and this makes a night and day difference.
This is why so often after a divorce, the man has learned nothing, and the woman has learned a lot. It's often her first real experience dealing with a man, when dad was kinda useless or distant. Mom is pretty rarely useless or distant, and guys don't seem to be messed up the same way when mom is a poor parent.
2 cents over.
Butterfly wings
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Sunday_10pm said:
Why that may be so. Jerks and bad boys get things that they want and most women respond very positively to it (because that is true). That still does not give any right for any bad boy or jerk to treat THIER girls the way they do. It's like they have mind control over them or something. It's no different then a guy or wife that beats up on and slaps and hits there own partner.
Heck i could go up to any girl and start banging her in a back room and give her things that she wants and needs and then split. Breaking her heart and breaking her spirit and leave her wondering why her and what went wrong and why all guys treat her bad. And i could call girls all kinds of degrading names in the book.
But I CHOOSE not to be like any of thoses type of guys. I was raised better then that. And i don't plan on changing.
I recommend that before you try this, make sure not to introduce yourself by your TMF handle.Butterfly Wings said:
I was a single guy until I was 36. During those long years I devoted much thought and effort into understanding women and trying to figure out why I always ended up in the "friend zone," of which it is my opinion that a more apt phrase has never been coined. I'm now 48. Even to this day I still study male/female relationships, only now I get a lot more from the female point of view than I did when I was single.
I can tell you with the most sincere earnest that this Zeke guy whom Cav88 quotes is dead on the money about everything said there. I would read those words again and let his wisdom sink in. I'm totally serious.
Butterfly wings
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drew70 said:
I was just kidding.
suprticklishgrl
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Hi. I'm a nice girl. And I would really like a nice guy. Surprised? You shouldn't be.
I have to say that I agree with the sentiments of ogre, mpath, GQguy, and Sunday_10pm. I didn't have the patience to read Cav88's long post, but I'm sure it had some good insight in it. In addition to that, I read 3 pages worth of angry remarks aimed at girls who absolutely disregard nice guys. So here are a few points of mine, if anyone cares to know...
1. We all make mistakes. That means that sometimes a girl will have to experience the bad to realize how great and worthwhile the good is. As for the girls who continually date the jerks, get dumped, then date more jerks, they have let to learn any valuable lesson. Forget them and move on.
2. Look in the right places. If you're hanging out at the bars or strip clubs all the time, of course you're not going to find an honest decent girl who's looking for a lasting and loving relationship. If you want my opinion, don't LOOK at all. Ms. Right will appear in front of you when you didn't even expect it. Why? Cuz love likes to smack us around like that sometimes. By the way, deperation is very unattractive.
3. The chase, the rescue, the adventure. Ok personally, I want a knight in shining armor. Most girls do. It's been a dream to be a fairy tale princess since childhood, and to have a dashing prince charming. Women want to be fought for. (Not literally, ok? I don't want to start fights.) There's something magical about love conquering all, overcoming obstacles. Most women in society these days are independent thinkers and not about to let a man do any "nice" gesture for them...but it is out of the ordinary and will stand out. Nice guys aren't the ones that grovel in front of a pretty lady and whine about broken hearts, they should be the ones with the confident smile who kisses the lady on the hand with courtesy and respect.
4. Similarity is attractive. My first boyfriend once told me, "The guys who you're looking for are not looking, and the guys who are looking are not what you're looking for." What he meant was that I would find many so-called jerks out there who would be attractive to me, but not ultimately what I wanted in a relationship. So to fix that, what I had to do was become the right person first, not go out and find the right person. When I was happy with who I was, the perfect guy would be ready for me as well. Because he would have become the right person on his own, and we would be drawn to one another. In other words, the jerk who is just looking for the hot girl and a one night stand, is going to get just that. But that's what the girl was looking for as well.
5. Men think with logic, women feel with their hearts. Is this true? You may say yes, but with relationships, I say absolutely not. Its a stereotype and a misconception. Take this situation: Girl A and Guy B go on a date and Guy C asks his buddy later on how the date went. Guy B says "You know, it just felt right, I really think she may be the one." And another situation: Girl D and Guy E go on a date and Girl F asks her friend later on how the date went. Girl D says "He did [blank] and [blank] and I was really happy to find out that he's [blank]. But I'm not sure if he knows [blank]. If I find out next time that he does, then this relationship may work out." Falling into a category of "nice guys" doesn't do you any good unless you're going to pass her test of what she's looking for.
Here's my last bit of advice. Don't stand on the sidelines with a picket sign that says "nice guys finish last". Put on your running shoes and go finish that race.
I have to say that I agree with the sentiments of ogre, mpath, GQguy, and Sunday_10pm. I didn't have the patience to read Cav88's long post, but I'm sure it had some good insight in it. In addition to that, I read 3 pages worth of angry remarks aimed at girls who absolutely disregard nice guys. So here are a few points of mine, if anyone cares to know...
1. We all make mistakes. That means that sometimes a girl will have to experience the bad to realize how great and worthwhile the good is. As for the girls who continually date the jerks, get dumped, then date more jerks, they have let to learn any valuable lesson. Forget them and move on.
2. Look in the right places. If you're hanging out at the bars or strip clubs all the time, of course you're not going to find an honest decent girl who's looking for a lasting and loving relationship. If you want my opinion, don't LOOK at all. Ms. Right will appear in front of you when you didn't even expect it. Why? Cuz love likes to smack us around like that sometimes. By the way, deperation is very unattractive.
3. The chase, the rescue, the adventure. Ok personally, I want a knight in shining armor. Most girls do. It's been a dream to be a fairy tale princess since childhood, and to have a dashing prince charming. Women want to be fought for. (Not literally, ok? I don't want to start fights.) There's something magical about love conquering all, overcoming obstacles. Most women in society these days are independent thinkers and not about to let a man do any "nice" gesture for them...but it is out of the ordinary and will stand out. Nice guys aren't the ones that grovel in front of a pretty lady and whine about broken hearts, they should be the ones with the confident smile who kisses the lady on the hand with courtesy and respect.
4. Similarity is attractive. My first boyfriend once told me, "The guys who you're looking for are not looking, and the guys who are looking are not what you're looking for." What he meant was that I would find many so-called jerks out there who would be attractive to me, but not ultimately what I wanted in a relationship. So to fix that, what I had to do was become the right person first, not go out and find the right person. When I was happy with who I was, the perfect guy would be ready for me as well. Because he would have become the right person on his own, and we would be drawn to one another. In other words, the jerk who is just looking for the hot girl and a one night stand, is going to get just that. But that's what the girl was looking for as well.
5. Men think with logic, women feel with their hearts. Is this true? You may say yes, but with relationships, I say absolutely not. Its a stereotype and a misconception. Take this situation: Girl A and Guy B go on a date and Guy C asks his buddy later on how the date went. Guy B says "You know, it just felt right, I really think she may be the one." And another situation: Girl D and Guy E go on a date and Girl F asks her friend later on how the date went. Girl D says "He did [blank] and [blank] and I was really happy to find out that he's [blank]. But I'm not sure if he knows [blank]. If I find out next time that he does, then this relationship may work out." Falling into a category of "nice guys" doesn't do you any good unless you're going to pass her test of what she's looking for.
Here's my last bit of advice. Don't stand on the sidelines with a picket sign that says "nice guys finish last". Put on your running shoes and go finish that race.
ShiningIce
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Wow how my thread has grown. Let me just say that I am now.................not so nice.
Sunday_10pm
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Butterfly wings said:
And it's great that you don't!
Sunday_10pm
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Hi suprticklish. In your example you say that girls think with as much logic as guys when it comes to love, and to an extent, you're right. But in my experience the try to, and fail miserably. Here, read this example of a girl's emotions triumphing over cold logic:
You're a hopeless romantic 😉
suprticklishgrl said:
You're a hopeless romantic 😉
suprticklishgrl
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ok, so then logic tells me that the prince who's going to fight for me is going to be the best partner i can dream of in a relationship. what's wrong with that? if he's courteous, respectful, daring, willing to go that extra mile and sweep me off my feet, i can't think of any better qualities that would fit my description of a perfect guy.
Sunday_10pm
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Sorry missy. Backwards engineering your dream is cheating. You created that dream when you were young because of how it makes you FEEL. It was all about the emotions. The fantasy came first, now you've broken it down, and theoretically, he would probably be a great guy: They don't call it "Women's Intuition" for nothing.
suprticklishgrl
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so it did start out as a feeling, i won't deny that, but it evolved into a thought that fit with my desires. of course we all grow up. what exactly is your point? i was agreeing with what you said earlier. or are you just giving me a hard time for the sake of it? 🙂
Sunday_10pm
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supr, don't get me wrong: I'm not saying girls are bumbling fools who can't apply logic EVER. I was just trying to say you don't fall in love using logic like you said.
CaptainQuantum
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suprticklishgrl said:
I've given up all hope and just stay in the house and surf the net. So I'm certainly following that advice of not looking. 🙁
lightninbug
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A perspective from down the road.
I was in the Park the other day & saw a bunch of elderly gents sitting outside in the UNSEASONABLY warm January weather. Watching young lovers walking by hand in hand, one or more would notice, comment & the rest would nod their approval or shake their heads in disapproval.
As I watched all this for a good spell from the coffee shop window, I tried to Imagine just what these conversations sounded like...and it hit me; they were expressing needed remidies or confering blessings on the Various couples that walked by as seen from the vantage point of 65-75 yrs. of age.
If I were that Old, (I'll be 53 in a little over a week), here's the wisdom I would feel Obligated at this time to Impart to Males AND Females:
1) If you think you're meant for better than what you have, then try it & see.
2) When you refuse to setle for less than what you really want, more often than not, You Get It.
3) Pay ATTENTION
4) Tell The Truth; most importantly, to YOURSELF.
5) You Have the RIGHT to Be Happy
6) EVERYONE ELSE Does Too.
7) If I knock you off a barstool just to be mean, you get hurt & you land flat on your back on the floor, That's MY Fault.
If I come back to the Bar 3 days later AND you're STILL layin there, THAT'S YOUR FAULT.
8) Don't let people down that trust you.
9) Realise the you're the ONLY one that has the Power to make you feel better OR worse.
10) If you really have a chance to be Happy, Take it.
The JOKE of the Universe seems to be that we're given these young, beautiful, hard bodies & it takes some of us Decades to learn what to do with them...AFTER we No longer have the Hard Bodies we once Had.
ps. what's the sound of 1 hand clapping?
Jump on in; the water's wet.
BUG
I was in the Park the other day & saw a bunch of elderly gents sitting outside in the UNSEASONABLY warm January weather. Watching young lovers walking by hand in hand, one or more would notice, comment & the rest would nod their approval or shake their heads in disapproval.
As I watched all this for a good spell from the coffee shop window, I tried to Imagine just what these conversations sounded like...and it hit me; they were expressing needed remidies or confering blessings on the Various couples that walked by as seen from the vantage point of 65-75 yrs. of age.
If I were that Old, (I'll be 53 in a little over a week), here's the wisdom I would feel Obligated at this time to Impart to Males AND Females:
1) If you think you're meant for better than what you have, then try it & see.
2) When you refuse to setle for less than what you really want, more often than not, You Get It.
3) Pay ATTENTION
4) Tell The Truth; most importantly, to YOURSELF.
5) You Have the RIGHT to Be Happy
6) EVERYONE ELSE Does Too.
7) If I knock you off a barstool just to be mean, you get hurt & you land flat on your back on the floor, That's MY Fault.
If I come back to the Bar 3 days later AND you're STILL layin there, THAT'S YOUR FAULT.
8) Don't let people down that trust you.
9) Realise the you're the ONLY one that has the Power to make you feel better OR worse.
10) If you really have a chance to be Happy, Take it.
The JOKE of the Universe seems to be that we're given these young, beautiful, hard bodies & it takes some of us Decades to learn what to do with them...AFTER we No longer have the Hard Bodies we once Had.
ps. what's the sound of 1 hand clapping?
Jump on in; the water's wet.
BUG
suprticklishgrl
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Sunday_10pm said:
if we all fell in love using graphs and checklists, that wouldn't be very exciting. (i'm known amongst my friends for making relationship graphs - i can't help it being an engineer.) and you're right. i kinda like being a hopeless romantic. it has its fun times...and i just don't let the singleness factor get me down.
but then, in my opinion, all the "nice guys" who keep complaining about girls not choosing them over some jerk really aren't making a very good case when they're just sitting in front of the computer or girl-bashing with their buddies. i think that life's a wild adventure, we should live it that way. i think someone said it earlier...its possible to be a fun exciting nice guy.
