WWE Wrestler Chris Benoit and family found dead

[Redmage]

He had 10 (that's ten) times the theraputic dose of STEROIDS in his system. Whether or not it's the smoking gun, I certainly suspect it was a catalyst along with the anti depressants and other drugs in his system.

OK, here's where I put on my scientist hat. I think I've mentioned before that I used to work in a drug-testing lab. So when I read this report on Benoit my first thought was "that's the problem with trying to discuss science in a newspaper." It's almost impossible to do it without simplifying the results so much that misperceptions like this creep in. To really explain this needs more technical information.

See, no one bothers just measuring testosterone levels by themselves when they're trying to detect steroid use. A man's body produces testosterone naturally, and it's indistinguishable from the stuff they inject. Just to complicate the picture further there really isn't a "normal" level of testosterone in men. There is a normal RANGE into which almost all men fall, but it's fairly broad.

So what they do instead is measure two things: testosterone and another natural steroid called epitestosterone (T and epi-T for short). Epi-T is a byproduct of the same metabolism that produces T, so when an athlete takes artificial T the ratio of T to epi-T in his blood goes up. It's that ratio that gets measured and reported to establish that he's been doping.

Even so, the T/epi-T ratio varies from man to man. The AVERAGE ratio is 1 to 1, but for example my own personal T/epi-T ratio is 4.5 to 1 - well above average but still within the normal range of variation. And I've never used anabolic steroids in my life.

Because of all this scientists who do this sort of testing don't feel that there's evidence of doping unless an athlete's T/epi-T ratio is greater that 6 to 1, because very, very few men have a ratio that high naturally.

I would bet a large amount of money that the news report that Benoit's T- level is "10 times normal" was based on a measured T/epi-T ratio of 10 to 1. That is 10 times higher than the AVERAGE ratio, but it's only a little more than twice mine, and only about 60% higher than the upper end of the normal range. It's still solid evidence that Benoit was doping (which surprises no one I'm sure), but it looks a lot less sensational when you understand it than it does when a reporter simplifies it down to "10 times normal" and leaves it at that.

As for whether it played a role in Benoit's death, there's just nothing to indicate that. You can suspect it was a "catalyst," but that doesn't really mean anything without some rational connection between Benoit's behavior and the way steroids are alleged to make people behave. We don't have that.

What difference does it really make-steroids, anti-depressants, whatever drugs were in his system? He killed his wife and son, then the miserable SOB killed himself! All the speculation in the world won't bring any of them back, will it?????

If it truly didn't make any difference then they wouldn't have done the tests. It can't bring them back but there's value in understanding what might or might not have caused this.

 

[Goodieluver]

OK, here's where I put on my scientist hat. I think I've mentioned before that I used to work in a drug-testing lab. So when I read this report on Benoit my first thought was "that's the problem with trying to discuss science in a newspaper." It's almost impossible to do it without simplifying the results so much that misperceptions like this creep in. To really explain this needs more technical information.

See, no one bothers just measuring testosterone levels by themselves when they're trying to detect steroid use. A man's body produces testosterone naturally, and it's indistinguishable from the stuff they inject. Just to complicate the picture further there really isn't a "normal" level of testosterone in men. There is a normal RANGE into which almost all men fall, but it's fairly broad.

So what they do instead is measure two things: testosterone and another natural steroid called epitestosterone (T and epi-T for short). Epi-T is a byproduct of the same metabolism that produces T, so when an athlete takes artificial T the ratio of T to epi-T in his blood goes up. It's that ratio that gets measured and reported to establish that he's been doping.

Even so, the T/epi-T ratio varies from man to man. The AVERAGE ratio is 1 to 1, but for example my own personal T/epi-T ratio is 4.5 to 1 - well above average but still within the normal range of variation. And I've never used anabolic steroids in my life.

Because of all this scientists who do this sort of testing don't feel that there's evidence of doping unless an athlete's T/epi-T ratio is greater that 6 to 1, because very, very few men have a ratio that high naturally.

I would bet a large amount of money that the news report that Benoit's T- level is "10 times normal" was based on a measured T/epi-T ratio of 10 to 1. That is 10 times higher than the AVERAGE ratio, but it's only a little more than twice mine, and only about 60% higher than the upper end of the normal range. It's still solid evidence that Benoit was doping (which surprises no one I'm sure), but it looks a lot less sensational when you understand it than it does when a reporter simplifies it down to "10 times normal" and leaves it at that.

As for whether it played a role in Benoit's death, there's just nothing to indicate that. You can suspect it was a "catalyst," but that doesn't really mean anything without some rational connection between Benoit's behavior and the way steroids are alleged to make people behave. We don't have that.

If it truly didn't make any difference then they wouldn't have done the tests. It can't bring them back but there's value in understanding what might or might not have caused this.

I think the media is on some kind of "rage" the way they wont let this story drop

 

[Redmage]

I think the media is on some kind of "rage" the way they wont let this story drop

I don't blame the media. If people didn't want to know about Benoit no one would talk about him. It's just unfortunate that the limitations of mass media oversimplify complex issues.

 

[kis123]

OK, here's where I put on my scientist hat. I think I've mentioned before that I used to work in a drug-testing lab. So when I read this report on Benoit my first thought was "that's the problem with trying to discuss science in a newspaper." It's almost impossible to do it without simplifying the results so much that misperceptions like this creep in. To really explain this needs more technical information.

See, no one bothers just measuring testosterone levels by themselves when they're trying to detect steroid use. A man's body produces testosterone naturally, and it's indistinguishable from the stuff they inject. Just to complicate the picture further there really isn't a "normal" level of testosterone in men. There is a normal RANGE into which almost all men fall, but it's fairly broad.

So what they do instead is measure two things: testosterone and another natural steroid called epitestosterone (T and epi-T for short). Epi-T is a byproduct of the same metabolism that produces T, so when an athlete takes artificial T the ratio of T to epi-T in his blood goes up. It's that ratio that gets measured and reported to establish that he's been doping.

Even so, the T/epi-T ratio varies from man to man. The AVERAGE ratio is 1 to 1, but for example my own personal T/epi-T ratio is 4.5 to 1 - well above average but still within the normal range of variation. And I've never used anabolic steroids in my life.

Because of all this scientists who do this sort of testing don't feel that there's evidence of doping unless an athlete's T/epi-T ratio is greater that 6 to 1, because very, very few men have a ratio that high naturally.

I would bet a large amount of money that the news report that Benoit's T- level is "10 times normal" was based on a measured T/epi-T ratio of 10 to 1. That is 10 times higher than the AVERAGE ratio, but it's only a little more than twice mine, and only about 60% higher than the upper end of the normal range. It's still solid evidence that Benoit was doping (which surprises no one I'm sure), but it looks a lot less sensational when you understand it than it does when a reporter simplifies it down to "10 times normal" and leaves it at that.

As for whether it played a role in Benoit's death, there's just nothing to indicate that. You can suspect it was a "catalyst," but that doesn't really mean anything without some rational connection between Benoit's behavior and the way steroids are alleged to make people behave. We don't have that.

If it truly didn't make any difference then they wouldn't have done the tests. It can't bring them back but there's value in understanding what might or might not have caused this.

Thanks for the science lesson, but the bottom line is it doesn't bring them back! Steroids, no steroids, antidepressants, sedatives, whatever! None of it matters in the end and it changes nothing. I'm sure their surviving relatives and friends would agree.

 

[Goodieluver]

I don't blame the media. If people didn't want to know about Benoit no one would talk about him. It's just unfortunate that the limitations of mass media oversimplify complex issues.

and now wrestlers who's time have passed are leeching onto this to talk with nancy grace and other as "Experts" to discuss the issue

The reason why marc mero was eyeballed with venomous spite at the benoit funeral

 

[Tickle Fiend]

and now wrestlers who's time have passed are leeching onto this to talk with nancy grace and other as "Experts" to discuss the issue

The reason why marc mero was eyeballed with venomous spite at the benoit funeral

And they had the nerve to call Marc Mero "arguably one of the greats."

 

[Goodieluver]

And they had the nerve to call Marc Mero "arguably one of the greats."

nancy grave also thought the four horsemen was a federation and was demoted to wwe

:jagoff:

She needs to die

 

[SlaverTickler]

What bugs me most...

Ok, as most of you know I am a Canadian. I am proud to be a Canadian, and I do my best to support my countrymen in any legal activity they take part in (specialy the military, lets go Canada). I am also an outspoken wrestling fan. I have been since I was 7 (and I am still at 33). So as you can guess, a guy like Benoit was a big deal to me, even though I haven't watched WWE since the death of Eddie Guerrero (please don't make that a topic of this thread). When Chris Benoit did what he did he not only let me as a wrestling fan who believed in him as a tremendous performer, but he also let me down as a countryman who put him up on a pedastil, near the same level as Hart Brothers (Bret and Owen).

I don't care about what drugs he was on, I don't care if his wife was going to leave him or that his son's "illness" was a hard burdan. Benoit turned out to be an abusive low life, thats why his wife was going to leave him in 2003, thats the real reason he mad little side trips back to Georgia (see him and Nancy had hooked up while both were still married to somebody els, and I think he thought she would cheat on him just like she cheated with him). Nancy Benoit hadn't been involved with wrestling for over 10 years, yet some how in 2006 she needed Chris to take time of to help her at home because she had neck surgery... why did she need neck sergery?

In the end it all comes down to a 7 year old little boy who worshipped his father, a father who made sure he would never grow up, never fall in love, never have his first kiss, first dance, get married or have children of his own. Fuck you Chris Benoit, you may have been something special in the fantasy world of Pro Wrestling, but in real life you were a falure as a man, and as a Canadian.

PS
I hate the fact that people have made tributes to him on youtube. It makes me sick.

 

[Comfort Eagle]

In the end it all comes down to a 7 year old little boy who worshipped his father, a father who made sure he would never grow up, never fall in love, never have his first kiss, first dance, get married or have children of his own.
Fuck you Chris Benoit, you may have been something special in the fantasy world of Pro Wrestling, but in real life you were a falure as a man, and as a Canadian.

word....

 

[natural tickler]

Ok, as most of you know I am a Canadian. I am proud to be a Canadian, and I do my best to support my countrymen in any legal activity they take part in (specialy the military, lets go Canada). I am also an outspoken wrestling fan. I have been since I was 7 (and I am still at 33). So as you can guess, a guy like Benoit was a big deal to me, even though I haven't watched WWE since the death of Eddie Guerrero (please don't make that a topic of this thread). When Chris Benoit did what he did he not only let me as a wrestling fan who believed in him as a tremendous performer, but he also let me down as a countryman who put him up on a pedastil, near the same level as Hart Brothers (Bret and Owen).

I don't care about what drugs he was on, I don't care if his wife was going to leave him or that his son's "illness" was a hard burdan. Benoit turned out to be an abusive low life, thats why his wife was going to leave him in 2003, thats the real reason he mad little side trips back to Georgia (see him and Nancy had hooked up while both were still married to somebody els, and I think he thought she would cheat on him just like she cheated with him). Nancy Benoit hadn't been involved with wrestling for over 10 years, yet some how in 2006 she needed Chris to take time of to help her at home because she had neck surgery... why did she need neck sergery?

In the end it all comes down to a 7 year old little boy who worshipped his father, a father who made sure he would never grow up, never fall in love, never have his first kiss, first dance, get married or have children of his own. Fuck you Chris Benoit, you may have been something special in the fantasy world of Pro Wrestling, but in real life you were a falure as a man, and as a Canadian.

PS
I hate the fact that people have made tributes to him on youtube. It makes me sick.

Yanno Slaver, I understand how you feel, but you have to understand that those tributes done for Benoit were done before we knew all the details. And yes, they disappointed me too, but that does not dimish or taint all that Benoit has done for the sport, and the business

People make mistakes, and people have their demons they have to combat. Benoit unfortunately made the wrong choice in battling his.

Before people start saying harsh things about Benoit, remember this: People with glass houses shouldn't throw stones

 

[SlaverTickler]

Yanno Slaver, I understand how you feel, but you have to understand that those tributes done for Benoit were done before we knew all the details. And yes, they disappointed me too, but that does not dimish or taint all that Benoit has done for the sport, and the business

People make mistakes, and people have their demons they have to combat. Benoit unfortunately made the wrong choice in battling his.

Before people start saying harsh things about Benoit, remember this: People with glass houses shouldn't throw stones

I'm not perfect, and at no time have I claimed to be, but when you kill a kid (especialy your own) thats it, you've gone to far. Demons be damned, Eddie had his demons too, but he didn't kill his family, niether did Kona Crush (who just died) or Hulk Hogan, or anyother wrestler. Even Jake Robert hasn't killed anyone that I know off, and he has demons that make most peoples look like bunny rabbits. Sorry but for my a dead 7 year old is to much. Imagine it was your Nephew and sister (or daughter, or even you in law).

I tried to understand it I thought maybe it was roid rage of some sort. Then I found out about the seperation in 2003, and also that Nancy had been tied down when she was killed. Sorry Natural, but that is just to much, I can't forgive that sort of cowardice from someone I had looked up too in the past. I wanted to be Benoit at one point. The smaller wrestler who beat the odds and became worlds champion. Now I can only pray I'm never anything like him.

 

[natural tickler]

fully agreed. I have additional views, but I'll just keep that to myself.

by all means my friend, please expound your views. I'd love to hear them

 

[Eriksmasque]

Just Read This Today On Aol News

ATLANTA (Sept. 5) - Pro wrestler Chris Benoit suffered brain damage from his years in the ring that could help explain why he killed his wife, son and himself, a doctor who studied Benoit's brain said Wednesday.


Photo Gallery: Vital Link?

Kevin Mazur, WireImage.com Wrestler Chris Benoit killed his wife and son before taking his own life in June. Since then, evidence of steroid abuse and multiple concussions have been found in Benoit.
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The analysis by doctors affiliated with the Sports Legacy Institute suggests repeated concussions could have contributed to the killings at Benoit's suburban Atlanta home.

The wrestler's father, Michael Benoit, told reporters Wednesday that he knows his son had concussions because his son told him so. But he also said he knows of no medical records or records kept by the wrestling league to support the diagnosis.

Steroid use also has lingered as a theory behind the killings, since anabolic steroids were found in Chris Benoit's home and tests conducted by authorities showed Benoit had roughly 10 times the normal level of testosterone in his system when he died.

The institute, which researches the long-term effects of concussions, coordinated the testing using samples of Benoit's brain tissue provided by the Georgia Bureau of Investigation.

The Waltham, Mass.-based institute's president is former pro wrestler Christopher Nowinski, who has said he had to quit the ring after a kick to the head. Nowinski still has ties with World Wrestling Entertainment Inc., which runs the league he and Benoit were in.

A lawyer for Stamford, Conn.-based WWE did not immediately return a call Wednesday seeking comment. The company has maintained steroid use did not cause Benoit to snap.

Despite the results of the institute's tests, there was no way to know if Benoit's concussions contributed to the murder-suicide, said Dr. Robert Cantu, a member of the institute who also is chief of neurosurgery service at Emerson Hospital in Concord, Mass.

"Whether it is the sole factor I believe is speculation and I will not go there," Cantu said by phone.

The level of brain damage Benoit had can cause depression and irrational behavior, Cantu said.

Benoit's brain showed the same degenerative processes that doctors working for the institute found in the brains of three men who had played pro football and committed suicide, Cantu said. There were abnormal protein deposits caused by trauma to Benoit's brain, Cantu said.