You thought Alabama had it bad? Trend of manic southern judges continues...

[Oddjob0226]

What the Scottish burned was an x-shaped cross. This still happens at the Grandfather Mountain, North Carolina Scottish Festival in July. When Thomas Dixon wrote his book "The Clansman" he included a line about "The Firey Cross of old Scotland's hills!" and mentioned how the KKK burned crosses - even though at that time (the 1800s) they didn't. When "The Clansman" was turned into the D.W. Griffith film 'Birth Of A Nation' it showed the Klan lighting an upright Christian cross. William J. Simmons, founder of the second movement of the KKK in 1915 liked what he saw and we - I mean THEY - have been using it ever since.

I know that there is a church - non KKK affiliated - that uses a firey cross as its symbol as well. I think it's a Lutheran Branch; I'm not sure, worshipping Satan and all.

And ..... Vidor, Texas is the Klan capital of the United States! They have the most concentrated number of Klan members there & their first black resident just moved there in the early 1990s.

 

[BigJim]

What the Scottish burned was an x-shaped cross. This still happens at the Grandfather Mountain, North Carolina Scottish Festival in July. When Thomas Dixon wrote his book "The Clansman" he included a line about "The Firey Cross of old Scotland's hills!" and mentioned how the KKK burned crosses - even though at that time (the 1800s) they didn't. When "The Clansman" was turned into the D.W. Griffith film 'Birth Of A Nation' it showed the Klan lighting an upright Christian cross. William J. Simmons, founder of the second movement of the KKK in 1915 liked what he saw and we - I mean THEY - have been using it ever since.

I know that there is a church - non KKK affiliated - that uses a firey cross as its symbol as well. I think it's a Lutheran Branch; I'm not sure, worshipping Satan and all.

And ..... Vidor, Texas is the Klan capital of the United States! They have the most concentrated number of Klan members there & their first black resident just moved there in the early 1990s.

Ah, that would be a cross of St. Andrew that the jocks burned then. Not surprising, considering he is the patron saint of Scotland.

All I can say is, that Vidor's first black resident is a braver bugger than me!

 

[the_Baron]

as a Lutheran, i can state that the burning cross is not part of the symbols of any of the various lutheran denominations here in the U.S.

the flame and cross is the official symbol of the united methodist church - and it has scriptural symbolism obviously - nothing to do with racism.

 

[Oddjob0226]

Ah, that would be a cross of St. Andrew that the jocks burned then. Not surprising, considering he is the patron saint of Scotland.

All I can say is, that Vidor's first black resident is a braver bugger than me!

Yes, that's what I just said.


Check out the book "The Straight Dope Tells All" by Cecil Adams. It gives you the lowdown on the drunken, stingy Scots' crossburnings. Exceptin' they burned x-shaped crosses (a St. Andrew's cross, like what Ashlee Renee would get tied to in some of her videos...)

Hello, McFly, hello....


I saw a story about the 1st black resident on the ... uh, telly. They didn't seem to much care for him or his son. Hail Satan.

 

[BigJim]

as a Lutheran, i can state that the burning cross is not part of the symbols of any of the various lutheran denominations here in the U.S.

the flame and cross is the official symbol of the united methodist church - and it has scriptural symbolism obviously - nothing to do with racism.

Originally the swastika had nothing to do with fascism, but Hitler adopted it, turned it back to front, and became synonymous with it.

 

[Oddjob0226]

Originally the swastika had nothing to do with fascism, but Hitler adopted it, turned it back to front, and became synonymous with it.

And now it's a hot sex-fantasy icon!

This has nothing to do with the topic, but as a symbolic blow to fascism I shall speak freely and unafraid! How did both the American Indians/indeginous people of the Americas and the Indian Indians/East Indians both end up having this symbol as part of their spiritual iconography, being separated by miles, years and culture? And how the deuce do both China and England have dragons in their folklore when THEY are separated by miles, years and culture - and it's not even a real thing?

 

[JoBelle]

And how the deuce do both China and England have dragons in their folklore when THEY are separated by miles, years and culture - and it's not even a real thing?

Who says they aren't real!?! Bite your tongue!

Joby

What about the extended arm salute that Hitler ripped off?

 

[Oddjob0226]

Who says they aren't real!?! Bite your tongue!

Joby

What about the extended arm salute that Hitler ripped off?

Yeah, and taking Charlie Chaplin's mustache to appeal to the masses!

Shiznit, after watching "Reign of Fire", if dragons were ever real, that movie killed 'em off for me.

 

[ticklebutton]

Oddjob

...and how the deuce do both China and England have dragons in their folklore when THEY are separated by miles, years and culture...

It's the universality of myth from the Collective Unconscious.

Check out anything by Joseph Campbell, including The Hero With a Thousand Faces.

Or get your hands on the videos of Bill Moyer's interviews with Campbell called The Power of Myth.

[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Campbell]

Button

 

[Oddjob0226]

Re: Oddjob

It's the universality of myth from the Collective Unconscious.


Button

I'll check it out. On the one hand, it seems like a really wierd coincidence, on the other hand what I know about the Collective Unconsciousness - admittedly very little - strikes me as kind of strange and unreal, too. Well, there's always more reading to do! What do you know about Carl Jung and anything I should be reading about his theories?

 

[BigJim]

This has nothing to do with the topic, but as a symbolic blow to fascism I shall speak freely and unafraid! How did both the American Indians/indeginous people of the Americas and the Indian Indians/East Indians both end up having this symbol as part of their spiritual iconography, being separated by miles, years and culture? And how the deuce do both China and England have dragons in their folklore when THEY are separated by miles, years and culture - and it's not even a real thing?

Not read any of my threads on the common origin of all major religions? Iconography is a part of them. The dragon symbolism is repeated in many cultures too. Many of the older civilisations depicted their "gods" as being of reptilian appearance and dragon symbolism possibly is a route taken from that. Dragon symbolism is also related in the Chinese culture to the phenomenon that Western science has dubbed "Geomantic Energy". (If you want a reference, think of Alec Guiness describing the Force to Mark Hamil.) The Chinese called it Dragon Energy and they called what we term Ley Lines, Dragon Lines. Apparently their "gods" were experts at tapping the energy through their biological bodies.

 

[JoBelle]

I asked my son, who is slightly obsessed with dragons (has over 50 in various forms in his bedroom) where he thought they came from. He's six, so take that into consideration.

"People found a pterodactyl fossil beside a t-rex fossil and thought they were one big thing. And they added fire-breath because it was big."

So there you have it.

Joby

Who hasn't heard the words ley lines in about 7 years.

 

[Oddjob0226]

Not read any of my threads on the common origin of all major religions? Iconography is a part of them. The dragon symbolism is repeated in many cultures too.

I'll do a search and try to pull them back up.

But I'm not wondering so much what they mean, I'm asking how did this one specific thing that doens't even exsist appear in one place at at time when there were no explorers, no mass communication, no contact between one land and another, and then appear in some total other place. I can kind of see the Egyptians coming up with mummies and pyramids, and the Aztecs comming up with mummies and pyramids, since it would just be a matter of experimenting, observing nature, trying new things etc. over a thousand years or so. Lions feature in European iconography and in Asia. Even though big cats dodn't exsist in the wild in Europe now they did at one time, same as in Asia. But this is a totally man-made thing appearing as a major influence in 2 different lands.

So I guess at one time they really did exsist.

Or ?

 

[BigJim]

I asked my son, who is slightly obsessed with dragons (has over 50 in various forms in his bedroom) where he thought they came from. He's six, so take that into consideration.

"People found a pterodactyl fossil beside a t-rex fossil and thought they were one big thing. And they added fire-breath because it was big."

So there you have it.

Joby

Who hasn't heard the words ley lines in about 7 years.

Interesting. Only thing is, dragons have been around in various myths for thousands of years, wheras dinosaurs have only been known about since the discovery of an Iguanadon tooth in 1822, in England.Other than that, perfectly plausible.

Where did you last hear about ley-lines Jo? 🙂

 

[BigJim]

I'll do a search and try to pull them back up.

But I'm not wondering so much what they mean, I'm asking how did this one specific thing that doens't even exsist appear in one place at at time when there were no explorers, no mass communication, no contact between one land and another, and then appear in some total other place. I can kind of see the Egyptians coming up with mummies and pyramids, and the Aztecs comming up with mummies and pyramids, since it would just be a matter of experimenting, observing nature, trying new things etc. over a thousand years or so. Lions feature in European iconography and in Asia. Even though big cats dodn't exsist in the wild in Europe now they did at one time, same as in Asia. But this is a totally man-made thing appearing as a major influence in 2 different lands.

So I guess at one time they really did exsist.

Or ?

Or...

My personal belief is that mankind's history goes back many millenia before official sources tell us. Despite official egyptologists telling us that the three pyramids and the Sphinx on the Giza plateaux only date from the 5th dynasty, it's patantly obvious using geological dating and astronomical angles that they date from before 10,000 B.C. Civilisation in the Nile Valley is completely debunked before 3100 B.C.

At some point in the past there was a civilisation that was spectacularly more technologically advanced than we give early man credit for. There is much archaeological and linguistical evidence to suggest that many cultures on many different continents had the same source. This would also explain to me why all major religions for the past 15,000 years have the same symbolic source; including Christianity, Islam, Judaism, Bhuddism, ancient Egyptian, Greek, Babylonian, Sumerian and Roman.

 

[JoBelle]

Interesting. Only thing is, dragons have been around in various myths for thousands of years, wheras dinosaurs have only been known about since the discovery of an Iguanadon tooth in 1822, in England.Other than that, perfectly plausible.

Where did you last hear about ley-lines Jo? 🙂

So, it's impossible that someone thousands of years ago stumbled on a fossil?

Ley lines. From a girlfriend obsessed with that and other things to be found in the encyclopedia of the supernatural. 😉

Jo

 

[BigJim]

So, it's impossible that someone thousands of years ago stumbled on a fossil?

Not impossible, no. Just highly unlikely. 🙂

The biggest giveaway is that these two creatures were not contemporaries. The Pteranodons/Pterodactyls lived primarily during the late Triassic and early Jurassic periods. (185-155 million years ago.) The Tyrannosaurus Rex existed during the latter Cretaceous period. (80-65 million years ago.) Given that fossils form as a result of a sort of mummification in forming rock stratum, a Ptero fossil would be formed anything up to a hundred million years before the T-Rex one. They could be in the same geological area, but not the same level of stratum.

It's also worth noting that someone finding and mis-interpreting a fossil, would not lead to a world-wide folklore thousands of years before global travel was alleged to exist. (That would go into a conspiracy thread where even I don't wanna go! Not yet anyway.)


Jim: Who always thought that Spielberg created another 20 million armchair paleontologists overnight with his park full of dinosaurs.

Spotting the reptillians since 1985. 😉


P.S. Sorry if I get too serious sometimes. 😉


P.P.S. It's a damn good theory the lad had. Where did he get it? Something he heard at school or summat he thought of on his own? 🙂

 

[BigJim]

Ley lines. From a girlfriend obsessed with that and other things to be found in the encyclopedia of the supernatural. 😉

Jo

That's something I study, but generally from a pseudo-scientific angle.

I personally don't believe in the supernatural or paranormal. I think those were just words invented by various religious organisations to demonise what is nothing more than the inneffably powerful forces of nature at work. Energy grids, geomantic energy, spirits, heaven and hell etc. I think they're all as normal and natural as diving under water and finding yourself in a different world.

 

[JoBelle]

It's ok Jim.


When you get over-serious regarding the theories of a 6 year old, I just let you run with it.I personally don't think it's too shabby of an idea. Hell, if enough people over a large expanse of time found remnants of just the giant birds, it seems plausible. But....then again, there's no "proof" to back that like there is for your illuminati. 🙄

Joby, thinks dragons came from Pern on holiday.

 

[BigJim]

It's ok Jim.


When you get over-serious regarding the theories of a 6 year old, I just let you run with it.

It's nice to know that if nothing else, I can provide cheap amusement. Always good to know I have a function in life.

I personally don't think it's too shabby of an idea. Hell, if enough people over a large expanse of time found remnants of just the giant birds, it seems plausible.

Yeah, it does. The tiniest and most insignificant of things can become overblown and much more important with time and each re-telling. Even ridiculously small things can loom large in the minds of the people. Take George W. Bush for instance. 😀

But....then again, there's no "proof" to back that like there is for your illuminati. 🙄

This coming from a member of the country where against all the odds and all gathered evidence so far, people are still believeing in the existence of a brain cell in the man who they elected as their national leader? I'm wounded!

Seriously though Jo *waiting for Ven to drop in with an O/T edit* , there's plenty of circumstantial evidence, you've just chosen to ignore or discredit it. Cool. 😎

 

[JoBelle]

Seriously though Jo *waiting for Ven to drop in with an O/T edit* , there's plenty of circumstantial evidence, you've just chosen to ignore or discredit it. Cool. 😎

OOPS!

Wrong Jimbob!

I don't discredit or ignore ALL of your facts. I simply do not agree with the connections that must exist in order to make the "plan" workable. What percentage of the civilized world agrees with the WHOLE? Are all the rest of us so easily fooled?

Anyway, I think we almost made it full circle back to taking one sets of traditions or facts and applying them to a whole new group. The whole Scots burning crosses thing!!!! GAH! It's a master plan!!

The whole world IS interwoven isn't it???? 😀

J.

 

[ticklebutton]

...I think they're all as normal and natural as diving under water and finding yourself in a different world.

Me too.

JoBelle, I like that your little boy considers things and makes connections.

I have to disagree with his conclusion about war, though. 😎

Button

 

[Oddjob0226]

But if things AREN'T connected, then that leads me back to my original question: How did cross-burning dragons spontanously come up with the Lutheran swastika at the same time (figurtively speaking) despite the two societies - China and England - being separated by language, culture, years, geography, a single brain cell, a missing bloody glove, a magic bullet from Pern and John Doe #2?

Why do I come to a tickling forum for answers to important questions......

 

[JoBelle]

JoBelle, I like that your little boy considers things and makes connections.

I have to disagree with his conclusion about war, though. 😎

Button

Well, I guess that's the beauty of the human race. There are no right answers. We just do what our hearts and limited minds suggest that we do. I personally agree with my young son in that sometimes drastic measures insist that we have to take steps that we might otherwise not. I've taught my son to be everything I'm not....hence the surprise when out of the mouth of this babe came the thought that some things are worth the pain.🙁

And as far as how dragons ended up in totally seperate places in history. Hmmmm, you got me. What do you think, Odd? Or did I miss it?

J.

 

[BigJim]

And as far as how dragons ended up in totally seperate places in history. Hmmmm, you got me. What do you think, Odd? Or did I miss it?

J.

Maybe it was a combination of two fossils that got broken up in an earthquake and ended up on two seperate continents? 😀

Seriously though Jo, the reason I addressed the point so seriously, was because it seemed totally plausible to me. I thought it was a pretty intelligent thing to say, especially for a 6 year old. I can just imagine how two skeletons superimposed on top of one another could give the false impression of being a single animal. You obviously thought so yourself, because you mooted it too. I wasn't being picky/annoying/English/Jim-ish or pedantic by saying what I did. (Not on purpose anyway.) I actually thought it might be right for a bit! I went and checked on the two animals times to see if it was possible, and then reported back when I found out they had lived in different periods.

I don't discredit or ignore ALL of your facts. I simply do not agree with the connections that must exist in order to make the "plan" workable. What percentage of the civilized world agrees with the WHOLE? Are all the rest of us so easily fooled?

You don't? Well bugger me with a fishfork! lol You got me interested now, what facts do you agree with? Beyond the basic facts like times and dates, I thought you had the impression I was all hooey and a lot of wishful thinking. I was certainly under the impression that you disagreed with me on the existence of organisations like the Bilderberg Group being string pullers of elected politicians, media owners etc. As that is the type of organisation I am referring to when I use the word "Illuminati", that's what I was referring to.

When you said "there's no proof for this, like there is for your illuminati🙄" it seemed obvious to me that you were being sarky about the level of proof I had presented for collusion behind the scenes by individuals or groups. It wasn't a huge leap to assume you were saying I had none at all.

Are all the rest of us so easily fooled?

For the large part, yes. Of course, that is only my opinion.

I tend to view the human race as being like Truman Burbank, from The Truman Show. The truth is there and amazingly easy to access if you bother to put yourself out to search for it. But why bother? You best mate is coming round with some brewskis, your wife has bought some of that lovely Mococao drink for tea and the world makes a lot more sense if you accept the reality of the world that you're initially presented with. It's all just so unecessary to go out looking for the real world, when that nice kind producer has gone to all the trouble of creating this fabricated joke, and your life isn't fucked up so long as you go along with it. No storms rock the boat, no people in your life badgering you to conform to the expected-accepted and you definately don't have to worry about that big, bad world out there, because it's nice and safe and warm in here. Given mankind's propensity for allowing itself to be scared to death of non-existent threats, it's a piece of piss to keep Truman in the show.

Just in case there is any confusion, that is my view of humanity as a whole Jo, not my view of you in particular. Don't want to cause any un-looked for offence here. 🙂