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You're So Vain, You Prob'ly Think This Post Is About You (video mini-rant) :)

The flip side of this, is if you have people clamoring for a certain type of video, if there is enough of a base audience, why not give the people what they want instead of saying...stop whining at wait.

Rob, I feel like we're still not understanding each other :bubble:. What I'm addressing here is the phenomenon of audience members who frown upon anything produced that isn't exactly what they want, no matter how much of what they like that you do give them. A good example is one customer in particular who loves my videos, but hates the fact that the 'ler in one of them is a male. He feels that there should never, ever ever EVER, be a male in a tickling video. Ever. When he asked me, horrified, why I had a guy (oo ick :xlime:) for the 'ler, and I told him that many of my other customers prefer M/F, he actually replied that they were gay and there should never be a man in a tk vid :sowrong:. That's....I don't even know what that is. Can you see where I'm coming from? With a customer like that, no matter how many videos we make that he likes, he'll complain when we make one he doesn't; I find that to be a bit self-centered and I think most producers and others would agree. It's odd to me when folks ignore that there are other types of people.

You're saying give the people what they want; I agree. I'm just saying that folks should respect others getting what they want from time to time, it can't always be your turn unless you like everything 😛

Bella
 
Bella, I think your frustration is coming from wanting to please everybody. You just won't be able to do it. There are guys who won't buy M/F clips. I'm one of them. Many others won't by F/M. Customers tend to tell you what they want and don't want, even if you don't ask them. It doesn't mean you have to justify every thing you do to them. But isn't it still better to know, from a marketing perspective, what people prefer? Is it so important that everybody accept every single piece of material you produce?
 
Bella,
when it comes to rants of a few I would agree just a nod of hearing them is all that is needed.
The only problem arises is if there is more than a few.
If someone does not like a male in a video, direct them to other videos you offer that have f/f. Ask them, have you seen this one....or perhaps this one.

You cant please everyone and thats true, and some people (unfortunately) are of the mindset that they should get what they want, when they want it. I am one of those but I temper that by looking at all the available resources and then making my purchases.
If you offer custom vids thats a way to let them know you want it your way...pay for it.
I dont know if you do that or not for sure since Ive never been a customer of yours, so I apologize if you do offer that option.
And about having a customer like that, if they still pay to watch other material, then it their problem not yours.

Rob
 
audience members who frown upon anything produced that isn't exactly what they want, no matter how much of what they like that you do give them.

Here's what I think is happening. When I watch a clip I basically don't like, I go "eh, waste of money" and don't order from them again. It's pointless to single out one element I don't like if there are many. But I can't control what turns me off any more than I can control what turns me on. When I watch a clip I really do like, but has some element that spoils it for me, a part of me can feel frustrated, cheated of an overwhelming experience. So close and yet so far. I often feel like contacting a good filmmaker and asking them please, please, to make a clip where they don't do that. And my frustration may overwhelm my praise.

I agree I'd never ask somebody to stop making clips with elements I don't like, if I think there are others who like them. And I know I'm as idiosyncratic as the next guy. I'd never ask a filmmaker to cater to my tastes alone. But if I think somebody does good work, I want it - for my own selfish reasons - to be even better. I suspect others may react similarly, and this may be the source of what Bella is hearing.
 
Bravo Bella!

I am constantly amazed over the past 8 years I've been online how utterly unappreciative many people on all sorts of forums are.

I appreciate everyone who shares the work they have produced, or have found a great clip they want to share. I don't care if I don't like the clip, or have seen it 1000 times. I find it amazing that people are bitching.

To some extent, they must be people who only have been aware of their particular kink after the internet became common- for those of us who had to settle for most fetish materials( if we could find ANY) prior to this internet age- forums like this are a damned wonderland!

The same principle runs true when people post pics of themselves, their wives or GF's, in hopes of sharing some fun and sexy images that would be pleasing to other members of a community- and then finding that other posters want to make degrading, insulting comments because those photos don't exactly match their tastes.

I suspect that the problem is much larger than just fetish forums members- probably indicative of larger probelms with American society as a whole.

And personally Bella-I love all of your videos! I have no request for anything other than maybe a nice sole shot from you!!!


Thank you, for the compliment and for understanding what I was getting at :bubble:

Bella
 
There's another small part to this that I think Bella's talking about as well. A lot of the folks she's talking about don't fall into the "potential customer" catagory. I've seen a lot of posters who just sit in Clips and slam the scenes as they come down the pike because they didn't cover what they wanted to see. And then never buy a video anyway, just keep downloading clips. We all know that there are people like that.

There have actually been one or two that I've tracked over the years that I've come to believe simply sit there with a "slam" ready to go for any video clip. I've seen "Why didn't it have any foot tickling in it?" in an upperbody clip, "You should have used a girl to tickle her" in a M/F clip, "You should have tickled her ribs" in a foot clip and "A guy would have tickled her better" in a F/F clip...

...all from the same poster. Seen it quite a bit over the years, actually.
 
There's another small part to this that I think Bella's talking about as well. A lot of the folks she's talking about don't fall into the "potential customer" catagory.
This is 100% incorrect. From a marketing perspective, anybody who shows any interest in her products is a potential customer. By some schools of marketing, anybody who even looks in Bella's direction is a potential customer. Certainly, anybody who visits this forum with an interest in tickling clips obviously can't be dismissed as a potential customer.

I've seen a lot of posters who just sit in Clips and slam the scenes as they come down the pike because they didn't cover what they wanted to see. And then never buy a video anyway, just keep downloading clips. We all know that there are people like that.
Exactly how do "we all know" who is buying clips and who isn't? I buy clips on line but my credit card is not made out to "drew70." Does it take Jedi training or something to be able to look at somebody in the clips section and somehow know that person doesn't buy clips on line?

There have actually been one or two that I've tracked over the years that I've come to believe simply sit there with a "slam" ready to go for any video clip. I've seen "Why didn't it have any foot tickling in it?" in an upperbody clip, "You should have used a girl to tickle her" in a M/F clip, "You should have tickled her ribs" in a foot clip and "A guy would have tickled her better" in a F/F clip...

...all from the same poster. Seen it quite a bit over the years, actually.
To me, a slam would be more like,"That was lame" or "That sucked." If a critic states specifically what it is he or she doesn't like about the clip, then its constructive criticism and well within the parameters of acceptable behavior as outlined in the GR.

I noticed Bella keeps assuming that those who don't agree with her simply don't understand what she is saying. I think the reverse is true. I think I get totally what she is saying. It's really not all that complex. She doesn't believe foot lovers for example should complain about upper body clips and that her customers need to realize she must put out a variety of material to satisfy a broad spectrum of clientel.

We get that. It's been reiterated ad nauseum. What's being missed here are basic marketing concepts. When you put out a product based on entertainment, you simply have to expect this kind of feedback. Anything you put out will entertain a certain percentage, while the rest will remain unentertained. They are likely to tell you about it. This isn't rude, or uncalled for. It's how the system works. This is true in the television industry, as well as motion picture and printed entertainment. They get all kinds of objections like..."Why'd you kill that character?"...."Why is so-and-so still on the show?!"...etc. Those that are serious about their product will give consideration to the complaints and will make adjustments according to the numbers.

Here's the meat of the issue here, as I see it. It wasn't all that long ago that tickling material was extremely rare and sought after. During these days, people were extremely grateful to anybody producing such material. So grateful, we'd pay upwards of $60-$90 for 45 minutes of questionable tickling with goofy feathers by people in silly costumes...and all of it in analog VHS format.

When the tickling groups formed on the internet, producers of tickling material were hailed as gods, and to this day that still goes on to some degree. It's hardly surprising that some people decided to start producing tickling material in a desire to recieve such fawning attention.

So the question becomes, how do you tell the serious producers from those that are just in it for the accolades? Easy. The serious producers are interested in both positive AND negative feedback, and aren't likely to complain when the cheering and fawning drop down to a level that can't sustain the ego.

So guys, keep those cards and letters coming!
 
there is this one guy who constantly comments on the fact that Vivianna isn't ticklish that she is faking..why does he care so much? i will post positive comments on clips i can preview and that i enjoy..my time to view is limited as i cannot get caught if you understand..and i definitely would love to buy but that is also a no no...
 
There's another small part to this that I think Bella's talking about as well. A lot of the folks she's talking about don't fall into the "potential customer" category. I've seen a lot of posters who just sit in Clips and slam the scenes as they come down the pike because they didn't cover what they wanted to see. And then never buy a video anyway, just keep downloading clips. We all know that there are people like that.

There have actually been one or two that I've tracked over the years that I've come to believe simply sit there with a "slam" ready to go for any video clip. I've seen "Why didn't it have any foot tickling in it?" in an upperbody clip, "You should have used a girl to tickle her" in a M/F clip, "You should have tickled her ribs" in a foot clip and "A guy would have tickled her better" in a F/F clip...

...all from the same poster. Seen it quite a bit over the years, actually.

You nailed it luv, 100% :redheart:. Thank you for articulating this aspect so well. I've seen it from several posters actually, and frankly it's not BellaRisa feedback that prompted me to start this thread; I've always observed other producers on the receiving end of this behavior *far* more than I've been, especially the males who dare to (gasp!) appear in their own clips. For some 'customers' that's way too much fun for a guy who isn't them to be allowed to have, apparently, so they have to protest 😀 The issue isn't about sales and marketing, because the gripers weren't the target audience in the first place; no, it's about courtesy and respect for other people, and simple acknowledgement of varying tastes and community :fish:

Bella
 
it would really HELP if people posted at the start of a new thread
m/f feet or upperbody clip
or f/f feet or upperbody clip or so on
not he/she hates being tickled
just nameing the clip would help m/f f/f f/m m/m
 
And you believe they should? Well, some might believe we should be able to complain about split files and clips that aren't posted in wmv - but we aren't. How is that so different from foot fans complaining about upperbody clips?
How is it any different from a video producer complaining about people specifying their preferences? Even if they aren't interested in such preferences (which violates most schools of thought with regards to merchandizing), why not just ignore them?

So then the vociferously whining minority should have their way?
Certainly not. But they should at least have their say. You're trying to deny them even that.
 
being rather not articulate i'm wondering if it's not vanity but insecurity that leads some to post negatively or constantly whine because they can't get a clip the way they want it..sounds childish and insecure to me..
 
I've always observed other producers on the receiving end of this behavior *far* more than I've been, especially the males who dare to (gasp!) appear in their own clips. For some 'customers' that's way too much fun for a guy who isn't them to be allowed to have, apparently, so they have to protest 😀
This reminds me something that actually happened to me a few months ago.

I got featured over a fetish tv show, "Ai Tuoi Piedi". I was showing my pics, and proceeded to tickle a girl who wanted to become a foot model.
We filmed the vid and released it. I did appear in some of the clips.

Some users watched the clips and expressed varying degrees of appreciation.
Some guy did not appreciate them much: he claimed the girl was not ticklish, just faking her reactions.
I explained I was there all along: we did not rehearse the show, and the tickling was absolutely genuine, as far as I could know, since I had personally tickled her with my own hands and tools.
He simply ignored my statement.
He pointed me over to a clip from another producer, telling me THEIR models were *genuinely* ticklish.

...

I guess "she is not ticklish" is the kind of remark that baffles most producers.
It is not about marketing techniques. It is not about body areas, physical looks or gender.
It just feels so random - and I thought I'd relate.
 
My two cents:

I draw tk and from time to time, I get a post or PM saying 'why wasn't it this?'. Why wasn't she barefoot in the pic? Why wasn't the lee tickled UB? Stuff like that. The bottom line is we try. We try to contribute what we can to the community. We try to provide this community with the material which many of us come here for. We try to be creative and artistic for our own enjoyment.

It has to do with constructive criticism. If it's tactful and well-thought out, constructive criticism can be very helpful. Simply saying 'it sucks' or 'It was an UB clip. I only like foot tk' doesn't help. Criticism is usually welcomed by those who contribute material to the community, but please, keep it constructive.

Snail Shell
 
Criticism of tickle vids won't ever stop, but I think that can be a good thing, since there are so many people that want so many different things, producers can keep churning out the material and keep getting paid.

However, the way the criticism is worded, it seems, can be a problem.

"Great clip! Can't wait to see one with more ____!"

Sounds a lot better than

"omgz! diz clip waz sooo shytty. moar feetz!"

But what the hell do I know? I've never bought or produced a clip in my life.
 
Criticism of tickle vids won't ever stop, but I think that can be a good thing, since there are so many people that want so many different things, producers can keep churning out the material and keep getting paid.

However, the way the criticism is worded, it seems, can be a problem.

"Great clip! Can't wait to see one with more ____!"

Sounds a lot better than

"omgz! diz clip waz sooo shytty. moar feetz!"

But what the hell do I know? I've never bought or produced a clip in my life.


You know a lot, and you hit it right on the head :twohugs:

Bella
 
Ewg!!!

Luv, there's a splosh fan who's *still* mad that I didn't dip my saran-wrapped Cassie in a kiddie pool full of Spaghettios...:rotate:

Now that IS sick. Custard is one thing, but there are limits...I often say that, while I may be a pervert, at least I'm not a pervert.
 
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