A Masters Creed (not for all - BDSM related - if offended, do not open)

[susannah355]

Because we'd rather be spanked by a man who finds the act deplorable? Whatever. 🙄

You know, you should try a real man some day, Lindy. A man who gives a woman love, respect, and tenderness, instead of pain, authority, and humiliation.

Anyway drew, I just wanted thank you for your participation in this thread - you're really brought out the best in everyone else. 😉

I too would like to thank drew for his participation in this thread. Dispite some unbelievably vicious backbiting, he's kept his focus on the truth.

I'm particularly appalled at this comment--

"I could mention the insanity of married men who've been willingly and eagerly held down and tickled by several women, with their wives nowhere to be found, having the nerve to refer to anyone else's happy relationship as dysfunctional. But I'll leave that alone"

This coming from a woman who openly embraces polygamy. Talk about the pot calling the kettle black.

But the worst by far is this spoiled child whom drew reached out to in her moment of vulnerability, offering friendship and compassion, who returned this rare and kind gesture by spitting in his face. That was utterly disgusting.

The worst of it is that none of you were the subject of drew's objections. All three of you attack drew because of his branding of the beaters of women as the abusers they are. But that's what victims of Stockholm Syndrome do. They defend their abusers just as my Mom and my sister and I defended our abusive father. I feel sorry for you and I hope you get the help you desperately need.

 

[Redmage]

You know, you should try a real man some day, Lindy. A man who gives a woman love, respect, and tenderness, instead of pain, authority, and humiliation.

Susannah, you really need to read up before you type. Lindy isn't into spanking, or indeed any type of painplay. If you'd taken a little time to check your facts...

Ah, well.

All three of you attack drew because of his branding of the beaters of women as the abusers they are. But that's what victims of Stockholm Syndrome do. They defend their abusers just as my Mom and my sister and I defended our abusive father. I feel sorry for you and I hope you get the help you desperately need.

Actually it's even worse than you know, Susannah. Some women actually seek out men who like what they like. In fact, some of them do this even if they've never been "abused" in any sense, by anyone. Possibly they lived in Scandinavia in a past life, or some such thing.

And then you have folks like Lindy, who aren't into SM at all. Lord knows what she has to do with Sweden.

*sigh* Enough. There's nothing anyone can say to make a dent in your assumptions. In any case that venom is its own worst enemy.

 

[Ticklerguy4u]

I did seek out a therapist once about my bdsm fetish. She told me that I have troubles. I told her she was bad girl for saying that. She said maybe I should do something about it. So I spanked her. 😉

 

[kis123]

I keep thinking about the title to this thread. Just in case anyone doesn't remember it.......

...if offended, do not open!

I'm not sure what part of that was difficult.

If BDSM offends "you" and "you" (with "you" being hypothetical) became offended, why go there? If you chose to post anyway, why are you surprised that BDSM supporters don't share your views with open arms? If someone were to attack something that I felt was paramount in my life, I'd come out swinging towards the fences.

I thought Mimi did well-she just found the creed and put it out there. She had no specific opinion one way or the other. I certainly don't agree with all I read, but she told me "if offended, do not open" right? This was specifically intended for those who supported, agreed, or wanted to know more about the BDSM world. If you find this so distasteful or disgusting and so vehimently disagree, please refer to Mimi's "disclaimer"

.....if offended, do not open!

I don't completely share their views either, but I feel that if all participants are consenting adults, who am I to judge the behavior? And please don't come back to me with that "penis-eating" story! There is not one person of the 30 thousand + members of this forum that would support such barbaric behavior!

I thought things were getting to a point that the posting was somewhat educational. Because I'm not familiar with the BDSM world at all (and spent years denouncing it without any knowledge of what goes on there), I wanted to know more about it and the people who actually participate in it.

Guess what? I'm still not interested in participating, but there is something I realized and has thusly made me more tolerant:

They go to work everyday just like I do
They have families and people who love them just like I do
They put on their pants (or skirts) one leg at a time just like I do
There's no sign on their foreheads saying "BDSM fetishist"
In other words, outside of their fetishes, they do not look, feel, or practically think any differently from myself.

I'm not going to say tickling and BDSM are the same to me because (to me) they aren't. However, if I ever tried to explain to my vanilla friends and family I had a love/passion/fetish for tickling, I guarantee they'd try to have me committed! Why? Because they don't understand our world, nor will they ever try! That's why I opened my mind enough to hear their opinions about what BDSMers think and feel. I'm slowly trying (and it's still a work in progress) to hear and learn from others who think and feel differently than I do.

When I sit in a meeting at work, I tend to wonder "what do these people sitting around my table do when they leave the office?" and the crazy imagination kicks in-makes for a helluva meeting in my mind!

I'm not trying to beat up on anybody, and believe I'm not the liberal "let everyone do what they want" type (just go and ask my children-they'll tell you I'm not that way at all!). I just decided how and when to pick my battles. There is no winner and loser in this debate-when this thread is over (if ever), some are going back to tickling and BDSM'ers will continue to BDSM.

 

[Ticklerguy4u]

Very well said kis.

 

[LindyHopper]

You know, you should try a real man some day, Lindy. A man who gives a woman love, respect, and tenderness, instead of pain, authority, and humiliation.

Anyone who thinks that I haven't tried a real man clearly doesn't know me very well. 😉 That sound you hear is all my friends laughing in the background. 😀

I doubt you bothered reading that other thread, so here's me on Redmage, bold added:

I've never played with anyone who's so attentive and considerate to what makes me feel good. Every session is an exploration into how to tickle me better and please me more. He treats me like the most precious of gifts. He has never asked for anything like submission from me. And he's never so much as swatted my bottom, because he knows I probably wouldn't like it.

You see, I'm actually a big fan of love, respect, and tenderness. 🙂

I too would like to thank drew for his participation in this thread. Dispite some unbelievably vicious backbiting, he's kept his focus on the truth.

Yeah, that's the problem with a moralist's "truth." It doesn't leave room for other peoples' life experiences, for exploring and finding what's right for them as individuals. It also doesn't leave room for... well, facts. Facts like the fact that people in BDSM relationships are happy. Ecstatic even. And don't go telling me that your mother was ecstatic about being beaten by your father, simply because she didn't complain. It's not the same thing, any more than date rape is exactly like a 30-minute orgasm-fest.

And FYI, I would know.

I'm particularly appalled at this comment--

"I could mention the insanity of married men who've been willingly and eagerly held down and tickled by several women, with their wives nowhere to be found, having the nerve to refer to anyone else's happy relationship as dysfunctional. But I'll leave that alone"

This coming from a woman who openly embraces polygamy. Talk about the pot calling the kettle black.

It has to do with honesty and communication. That's the difference between polyamory and cheating. I don't expect a person who views the world in such black-and-white terms, who lumps caring and careful tops in with wife-beaters, to understand the distinction.

But the worst by far is this spoiled child whom drew reached out to in her moment of vulnerability, offering friendship and compassion, who returned this rare and kind gesture by spitting in his face. That was utterly disgusting.

I'm recalling that drew's friendship and compassion as of late has consisted of calling her loved and trusted top a "monster unfit to live among civilized humans," and implying that she, and all women like her, are somehow sick for desiring what they do. Not much of a friend, if you ask me.

The worst of it is that none of you were the subject of drew's objections. All three of you attack drew because of his branding of the beaters of women as the abusers they are.

Can I just say that I really don't understand what you're yelling at me for? I hardly think my single previous post in this thread qualifies as an attack on drew (Backhanded compliment, sure, but attack? Not so much.) I knew you weren't much for fine distinctions, but geez... referring to me, bella, and TicklishLurker as "the three of you?" I'm hardly worthy. 😀

But that's what victims of Stockholm Syndrome do. They defend their abusers just as my Mom and my sister and I defended our abusive father. I feel sorry for you and I hope you get the help you desperately need.

Well, I feel sorry for you too. 😛 Once again, anyone who thinks I'm in desperate need of help, knows me not at all. 🙄 But I do hope that you can eventually find enough peace with your own past to learn that as we are all the sum of our experiences, we are not all the same. And thank goodness for that.

 

[asutickler]

I've been reading this thread off and on for quite a while now... And for some reason I feel compelled to throw in my own two cents. To an extent, I agree somewhat with those on each side of the issue.


If tie someone up and give them a light spanking, then (so long as they consent) you're a normal adult who happens to be slightly kinky.

A great many aspects of BDSM, although considered odd by mainstream standards, are relatively harmless. Although I'm not at all a fan of BDSM, I don't see the harm in people playing out safe S&M scenarios that indulge a fetish or craving for fantasy in their sex lives. To a large extent, what two (or more) consenting adults do behind closed doors is nobody else's business.



On the other hand,

If you tie someone up and cut their arms off (even with their consent), then you're a very sick individual in desperate need of help.

Here we have the other end of the spectrum. There really ARE people out there who crave pain and physical damage due to some sort of mental issue... And, sadly, there are sick, twisted individuals who prey upon them. Consent to an activity does not always make it right, and it certainly does not always make it legal. The validity of consent as a justification for BDSM and BDSM-like activities is inversely proportional to the danger and physical harm caused by the activity in question.

 

[kis123]

A great many aspects of BDSM, although considered odd by mainstream standards, are relatively harmless. Although I'm not at all a fan of BDSM, I don't see the harm in people playing out safe S&M scenarios that indulge a fetish or craving for fantasy in their sex lives. To a large extent, what two (or more) consenting adults do behind closed doors is nobody else's business.

On the other hand,

If you tie someone up and cut their arms off (even with their consent), then you're a very sick individual in desperate need of help.

Here we have the other end of the spectrum. There really ARE people out there who crave pain and physical damage due to some sort of mental issue... And, sadly, there are sick, twisted individuals who prey upon them. Consent to an activity does not always make it right, and it certainly does not always make it legal. The validity of consent as a justification for BDSM and BDSM-like activities is inversely proportional to the danger and physical harm caused by the activity in question.

I couldn't agree more, but I have a theory on the twisted category of folks in the world. I tried explaining this on another thread, so once again, this is kis' view on the matter.

When I talk about "consenting adults", I automatically eliminate "extreme" behavior. You'll (you being hypothetical) are always (yes, always) going to find extremes of the spectrum no matter what the subject matter is. Let's talk politics-there are Liberals and Conservatives with extremes on each end. Let's talk religion/spirituality-there are DEFINITELY extremes on each end of the spectrum there!

We won't even discuss athletes-there are some who just want to stay in shape. We have some who will throw their bodies into structures just to get a ball into their possession (I'm still paying for my daughter's basketball-induced concussion so I know what I'm talking about!). Then you have those who get a rush from jumping off structures, skiiing, skateboarding, etc. We're still only talking about amateur sports, and haven't covered the pros yet! I find all of this extreme-then again, it's probably why I'm built somewhat similiar to the stay-puf marshallow man! 😀

Oh, back to topic...............

Let's talk tickling for a moment-we have some who love it on the playful side, and some who want to be tickled (or want to tickle others) until they lose their bodily functions (and probably their mind too)! We have folks who love consentual and others who crave a non-consentual experience (just look at the stories section to confirm this). The same is going to be true in the world of BDSM or any other life matter.

I automatically mentally eliminate what I consider to be "extreme" behavior when I post on certain subject matter. You are always going to find a group of people for whatever reason, aren't satistfied unless they take their interests to the very edge-life and limb be damned! I can't count them into my assessments because they don't want the safe and sane-they don't even want "normal." This is a group of people who will risk their very lives for what they consdier the "ultimate" experience.

 

[TicklishLurker]

On the other hand,

If you tie someone up and cut their arms off (even with their consent), then you're a very sick individual in desperate need of help.

Here we have the other end of the spectrum. There really ARE people out there who crave pain and physical damage due to some sort of mental issue... And, sadly, there are sick, twisted individuals who prey upon them. Consent to an activity does not always make it right, and it certainly does not always make it legal. The validity of consent as a justification for BDSM and BDSM-like activities is inversely proportional to the danger and physical harm caused by the activity in question.

That's an extreme that no true practioner would even consider. Doing injury like that is an invitation for the BDSM comunity to report you to the police, blackball you from all clubs, gatherings, websites, have your picture passed around to warn people about you, etc.

I've honestly never seen a group more against real abuse then the BDSM community. People don't seem to grasp that in this thread. Because they're too closed minded. And you'd think being a group of fetishists we would be more opened minded. Honestly, do you even know how the vanila community looks at us? Apparently not. I have admited my fetish to vanila people - and they're more understanding and accepting of urine and feces play then tickling! We are, no matter how you look at it, a BDSM group. We might tickle instead of spank, but we still tie people up or at the least pin them down, and do something to them that many people look upon as sadistic and evil.

We should all just learn to be more open minded. After all, no one's asking you to accept something TRUELY sick and evil like pedophila, rape, beastiality, or necrophilia. We're asking you to accept something between happily consenting adults.

 

[isabeau]

Oh, back to topic...............

Let's talk tickling for a moment-we have some who love it on the playful side, and some who want to be tickled (or want to tickle others) until they lose their bodily functions (and probably their mind too)! We have folks who love consentual and others who crave a non-consentual experience (just look at the stories section to confirm this). The same is going to be true in the world of BDSM or any other life matter.

i am one who craves a non-consensual experience. its why i do love those stories such as Shadowtklr and Invisible Ink write so very well. there is just something so thrilling about not being in control that i find truly fascinating. and i know if i had a Dom and we played out that scenario, i could trust him to know just how far to carry it without going over the deep end so to speak.. having never been spanked or beaten for pleasure as an adult i have no idea if that would be a turn on or not, but i do know that the various stories i have read on the bdsm library forum appeal to me as long as its also not carried to the extreme. snuff, scat, golden showers are a definite turn off that i wont read. and want nothing to do with myself. also bastinado? i think its spelled. my feet are so super sensitive i really dont think i could take a caning on those soles. also bestiality shudders i will not read stories having to do with that as well. and in the bdsm library, every story has symbols before you open up the story, saying what will be involved within the plot so you are warned beforehand.

isabeau

 

[Ticklerguy4u]

I have to say I commend the people that have spoken up about their interests in BDSM. Even though they know that some will call them sickos, make fun of them, and even have them commited for evaluation.

The funny thing is ...these people are the same people you may sit next to on a bus, one of your co-workers, a person that takes your order at a restaurant, and even famous actors/actresses. The ones that you look at everyday and smile. But because they have admitted to a fetish..they are now condemned. I think some people picture them as standing in a dark room, shaking and talking to themselves.

I only did that once. When the lightbulb blew out in my bathroom. I was peeing at the time.

 

[drew70]

I have to say I commend the people that have spoken up about their interests in BDSM. Even though they know that some will call them sickos, make fun of them, and even have them commited for evaluation.

That's great, Guy. Hey, as long as we're commending people, I'd like to commend Susannah for speaking from the heart, refusing to buy into the glamorization of fetish abuse, fully understanding she'd be treated as a heretic. I told her not to reply, knowing full well she'd be lynched by those who support abusive men with a religious fervor. Unlike me, she actually cares what such people think and is sensitive to criticism.

The funny thing is ...these people are the same people you may sit next to on a bus, one of your co-workers, a person that takes your order at a restaurant, and even famous actors/actresses. The ones that you look at everyday and smile. But because they have admitted to a fetish..they are now condemned. I think some people picture them as standing in a dark room, shaking and talking to themselves.

I only did that once. When the lightbulb blew out in my bathroom. I was peeing at the time.

Guy, you speak as if it's a bad thing to reevaluate somebody based on new information about them. Was it bad for us to change our opinion of OJ Simpson when he committed murder and got off scott free? When you see only the good and noviolent side of people, the tendancy is to give them the benefit of the doubt. When it becomes known they take pleasure in hurting people, we're forced to reformulate our opinion of that person. Not that I condone judging people who have "a fetish." It just depends on what that "fetish" is.

Which brings us to another myth, that all fetishes are equal. Many fetishes are benign, like foot fetishes, pantyhose, bondage, and tickling. But there are many darker fetishes that involve injury, animals, children, and even corpses. Guy your remarks suggest you feel that guys who take sport in hurting women are being victimized unfairly for having "a fetish." This is rather disturbing as it also suggests you regard ANY fetish as legit, and nobody's business but those involved.

Finally, I'd like to say something about the tickling fetish. I think people exaggerate negative public opinion of tickling. I heard somebody say that if the people they know found out about their tickling fetish, they would have them committed. I used to feel this way myself. Imagine my surprise when I began telling anybody who asked that I liked tickling, including close friends and family, not one of them so muched as blinked an eye over it. Now, if I told them that what I liked was to dress in black, go to a "dungeon" and be humiliated by a "dom" wearing stilletos, leather, and an eyepatch, tickling me into submission, to "teach me about myself," that would have earned me the treatment many of you fear. I encourage anybody to not be ashamed of your love for tickling. As fetishes go, you could have been dealt a lot worse. I say this last picturing Redmage in that video, wand in one hand, knife in the other, screaming naked woman in between.

 

[kis123]

I believe everyone's made their point and everyone is just going to have to agree to disagree. We can keep picking each other's posts apart and we will all still go away feeling the way we do. The pro-BDSMers will remain in BDSM and those who disagree with the practice will continue to disagree.

And as far as my family finding out about me, it'll be long after I'm dead! I take enough flack from them for being too much of a risk-taker and free-spirit not buckling down to society's expectations. What a joke-are they serious?

You don't know the background and make up of my family at all-this is not acceptable to them to the point that if my kids were minors and this was exposed, they'd try to take them from me. My ex came from a very strict and closed-minded environment-if it isn't straight hetero sex, it's deviant, plain and simple with no compromise. I'll never tell any of them--not ever!

 

[TicklishLurker]

I believe everyone's made their point and everyone is just going to have to agree to disagree. We can keep picking each other's posts apart and we will all still go away feeling the way we do. The pro-BDSMers will remain in BDSM and those who disagree with the practice will continue to disagree.

Yeah, that's pretty much what I think. Of course, with the title of this thread, to me that's the proof that the people who disagree are simply trolling. They were told to not open it if offended. No one put a gun to their head saying "Open this thread and read it or I'll blow your brains out." Judging by the fact they did open it and replied it suggests they came in here strictly looking to start a fight, plain a simple. (Also judging by the fact they came in here and didn't try to understand or educate themselves, but right away started insulting, belittling, and generally acting like they're better then everyone.) My ignore list now has a few names added to it. I don't open threads I don't agree with (anti-Bush, pro-Hillary Duff/Lindsey Lohan/Avirl), they should learn to do the same.

Frankly, I'm starting to think that since this is a losing battle, we should just lock the thread. Mimi, I still think it's a wonderful thing you did starting this thread, and I'm so sorry people had to go and ruin it for you. I think the creed is lovely.

 

[Redmage]

Frankly, I'm starting to think that since this is a losing battle, we should just lock the thread. Mimi, I still think it's a wonderful thing you did starting this thread, and I'm so sorry people had to go and ruin it for you. I think the creed is lovely.

Trying to teach a pig to sing is always a losing battle, Jami. But I think the solution is simply to stop wasting time and annoying the pig. There's still value in the thread once the static is tuned out.

 

[Bagelfather]

okay I have to say it

That last clause would be enough to send a chill down anybody's spine were it not ridiculous bordering on hilarity. I like the phrase "all the confusion" as if to suggest that anybody who dares raise an eyebrow at the concept of somebody taking delight from inflicting pain on another doesn't understand "what's really going on." 🙄

Let's have a closer look at this "creed," shall we? 😀

So far anything to do with bdsm or D/S you have been extremely negative and nasty in your responses. I think from now on I'll just call you "Oil Fresh From the Ground" because you are 'crude and unrefined.'

Yes everyone is entitled to their opinion but you do it in such a negative fashion it makes me wonder if you practice being a jerk or does it come naturally?

There are people who use D/S play who are MORONS who shouldn't be allowed to touch any toy or have a sub and don't know the concept of it. Then there are loving and consentual players.

With hanging out with people I have tried things which I have found cool, and things which I have not enjoyed. Last night as part of a party I got flogged. I can HONESTLY say it does not turn me on, and I really have no interest in being flogged. It was boring an mildly painful to me. Myself flogging someone might be a different matter but we'll see 😉

Last night I got to see elctrical play in use... and THAt is fun. I had it used on me and it wasn't bad at all (he had it on a low setting). What was REALLY fun was this cute co-worker he tried it on using his metal claws to lightly rake her while the charge was going through. She didn't scream, she didn't cry... she actually laughed because it tickled. I was highly amused and entertained 🙂

None of the players I hang out with put cigars out in people or do serious injury. Sure there are those people who like that... I don't play with them becuase I find that "icky" to me. I don't say its wrong for THEM.. for ME it is wrong! And I can identify that. Everyone has different limits... I have a friend who HATES cold play, HATES having ice touch her. It is a STRICT red limit! Ice cubes are not cigars, are not broken bones, are not kicks to the crotch or weights on nipples. Yet by your definition this would be cruel. Hey SOMEONE doesn't like that play so its wrong. Oh wait its not hurtful? Yes it is to the person who has it as a red limit! HELLO... to some people oral sex is a limit.

Now if you find a lee who hates having his or her feet touched that can be a limit too. If anyone ever saw any video of non-consentual tickling, read any fiction of someone abucted, kidnapped, or otherwise force to endure tickling against their will then that person is a hipocrit of the highest order because that person is no better then the "monsers" he or she professes to fight.

A complete 24/7 master/sub relationship probably would not work out for me. Do I find it wrong that some people do and have a contract? No.

My friend Chris and Laura (whose wedding I am officiating) are in such a relationship and they have a contract. Chris has said on many occasion how responsible HE is for HER welfare! That is the responsibility he takes on. If she gets sick or hurt it is on him to take care of it. I don't know the details of the contract I have no interest in intruding on a personal item such as that. The point being is that if the sub is in a bad situation the sub can leave, can call the police. It is not a legally binding document. Usually the first one is for a short time and then things are renegotiated.

See that is the thing you are missing... the contract is a negotiated deal. The sub has JUST as much say in it as the Dom. If not then the sub and dom are definitely doing something wrong.

I am not trying to change your mind, I can't work on something like that and have no interest. I am merely really just annoyed with the fact that anytime anything BDSM is brought up you cry evil and start flinging your holy than thou water upon us.

You don't like BDSM, fine we understand that. Go make YOUR OWN THREAD and stop hijacking these threads to get on your high horse!

 

[BellaRisa]

Um...No.

I'm particularly appalled at this comment--

"I could mention the insanity of married men who've been willingly and eagerly held down and tickled by several women, with their wives nowhere to be found, having the nerve to refer to anyone else's happy relationship as dysfunctional. But I'll leave that alone"

This coming from a woman who openly embraces polygamy. Talk about the pot calling the kettle black.

A) I embrace polyamory, not polygamy. And actually for me it would be polyandry, since I have a loving husband and a loving boyfriend. If folks are going to discuss my wayard and sinful life they need to have their facts straight

B) Everyone calls me black, though I prefer 'mocha latte'. Brownsplenda, if we're on truly friendly terms 😉

For the record, I have absolutely no issue with married folks playing outside the marriage. I've helped top Drew myself and enjoyed it thoroughly. The point I was making with that comment is that *everyone* is in a dysfunctional relationship if you ask enough people. Nobody is doing exactly what everyone else thinks they should be doing and we all know it. Personally, I've gotten flack for marrying too early, marrying a white man, raising interracial babies, being involved in the tickling community as a mother and a married woman, running BellaRisa...just about everything I have ever done that brings me joy and makes me whole has been condemned as dysfunctional and just plain wrong, by persons thinking they had the right to judge me based on their personal views. Since I don't suffer fools well, every now and again I feel the need to debate such issues, often despite knowing in advance the type of self-righteous illogic I'm dealing with; hence my responses in this thread. Occasionally dead horse beating is a novel pastime 😀 .

Good people like Drew and Susannah have valid reasons for feeling as they do about abusers. Frankly I feel the same way. The reasons that folks like Lindy and Jamie and myself take a bit of offense are that

1) As fully functioning and happy adults, we know the difference between abuse and what we enjoy; comparing us to truly abused women and our partners to abusers insults our intelligence and the plight of the actually abused.

2) Insulting our ways and beliefs as laughable and ridiculous simply because you don't care to adhere to those ways is unfriendly and offensive and beneath the character of those posting here.

It's one thing to express dislike of our activities. It's quite another to openly mock what we do, using such labels as deplorable, sick, hilarious, etc., and then further insult our intelligence by saying that you're merely disapproving. You know the difference and shame on you for pretending that you don't.

For this thread, I have no interest in attempting once again to explain the difference between BDSM and abuse. At this point you have to be incapable of reading comprehension to still be in the dark on the subject; some will only see what abuse and hurt in their personal past will allow into their vision. My only request is that those of us who embrace BDSM be left in peace to discuss it without nay-sayers constantly...well, nay-saying. It's in rather poor taste to constantly place bile and sarcasm in the middle of a topic in which you profess to have no interest or actual disgust. It helps no one and only serves to alienate people needlessly. Kinda like using passive-aggression to be acidic in a thread praising someone you don't care for. But I digress...

I hope that this thread remains unlocked, and continues in the vein for which it was intended; and that those who don't care for the subject matter have the common sense and good manners to give it up.

Bella

 

[isabeau]

i would like to ask this question.... do Doms enjoy giving pain? and those submissives who enjoy receiving the pain. does that make them wrong? i believe myself that if the submissive enjoys having pain, whats the big deal?

also another question..... it was brought to my attention that both good and bad Doms enjoy giving pain but the good Dom will obey the safeword, no matter how much he would like to continue.... do all Doms like giving pain? sorry its all still sort of new to me

isabeau

 

[Mimi]

A "Top" does not necessarily enjoy giving pain. A "Sadist" enjoys giving pain. They are not always one and the same.

Mimi

 

[drew70]

So far anything to do with bdsm or D/S you have been extremely negative and nasty in your responses.

All I've done is strip away the pretty packaging and glamour of it. What you perceive as nastiness is what's left at the core of BDSM without the cosmetics.

I think from now on I'll just call you "Oil Fresh From the Ground" because you are 'crude and unrefined.'

More crude, than say a guy who gets a boner punching a woman in the back, or beating her with a club? Sounds pretty crude and unrefined to me. The term Neanderthal comes to mind.

Yes everyone is entitled to their opinion but you do it in such a negative fashion it makes me wonder if you practice being a jerk or does it come naturally?

Name calling. The first step towards crudeness. Tsk tsk. And after I went to the trouble of providing sound advice in your "What Am I Doing Wrong?" thread. Your ingratitude is nearly as galling as Jami's.

There are people who use D/S play who are MORONS who shouldn't be allowed to touch any toy or have a sub and don't know the concept of it.

*gasp* "Morons?!" How dare you?! That is so crude and unrefined! You know, you give your opinion in such a negative way it makes me wonder...well, you know.

Then there are loving and consentual players.

Yes, each swing of the cat'o'ninetails and every hot iron brand is delivered with oh so loving tenderness. 🙄

See that is the thing you are missing... the contract is a negotiated deal. The sub has JUST as much say in it as the Dom. If not then the sub and dom are definitely doing something wrong.

I'm not missing that at all, and never have. I've long since demonstrated that consent does not necessarily excuse any and all behavior as you and others seem to suggest.

I am not trying to change your mind, I can't work on something like that and have no interest. I am merely really just annoyed with the fact that anytime anything BDSM is brought up you cry evil and start flinging your holy than thou water upon us.

Sorry if expressing a different opinion "annoys" you. Perhaps I should run all my posts by you first, to make sure you approve?

You don't like BDSM, fine we understand that. Go make YOUR OWN THREAD and stop hijacking these threads to get on your high horse!

I did make my own thread. Tickling vs Pain in the Tickling Discussion. I was met with the same self righteous fervor there as you and the others are spewing here, so I really don't see any difference. I've not hijacked this thread at all because each and every post I've made deals with the original topic of masters, topping, and BDSM. But if it makes you feel any better, your not the only one who feels opposing opinions should be censored.

 

[Ticklerguy4u]

Drew, I personally I think you are just here to ruffle feathers and manipulate people into a argument with you so you can laugh at what some people feel strongly at. I think that is distastful as well. Don't give me this crap about how you feel about this self-righteous way of thinking that its not right to spank a woman even though she likes it. You really don't care about it as much as you say you do. You may have an opinion but because women themselves have admitted they enjoy it..you didnt even listen.

At first, I was thinking that I may explain it to you but I see now that its a waste of time. You assume you know what goes through everyone's mind when they "play" but you don't. You came in here totally out of spite just to get some attention. You disregarded what Mimi said and went through with you self-righteous attitude. Go back to church and learn about being respectful then come back and talk about morals.

I'm done with you! You may be a nice guy but your acting like a @#$^%&*. End of discussion.

 

[drew70]

Drew, I personally I think you are just here to ruffle feathers and manipulate people into a argument with you so you can laugh at what some people feel strongly at. I think that is distastful as well. Don't give me this crap about how you feel about this self-righteous way of thinking that its not right to spank a woman even though she likes it. You really don't care about it as much as you say you do. You may have an opinion but because women themselves have admitted they enjoy it..you didnt even listen.

Jesus, where do I start? Okay first, I've never given any opinion about "spanking." I don't have a problem with the gentler applications of pain like spanking or noogies. If SM pain play stopped there I'd have no problem with it. But you and I both know it doesn't. Yes, I've listened to every woman that say they enjoy it. I get it. As I've said about a hundred times, consent doesn't excuse extreme behavior, in my opinion.

At first, I was thinking that I may explain it to you but I see now that its a waste of time. You assume you know what goes through everyone's mind when they "play" but you don't.

Your mistake was in assuming I disapproved because of a lack of understanding on my part. Nothing you told me is anything I haven't already known for years. And no, I've never claimed to be a mind reader, so I don't know where you're coming from, there.

You came in here totally out of spite just to get some attention. You disregarded what Mimi said and went through with you self-righteous attitude. Go back to church and learn about being respectful then come back and talk about morals.

I think I know my reasons for participating in this thread a little better than you do. Now who's pretending to know what's going through other people's minds, hmm? I disregarded what Mimi said for the same reason you did. It didn't apply to me. I've not been to church for years, and there is only one moral for which I have made any stand: It's wrong for men to take pleasure in hurting women.

I'm done with you! You may be a nice guy but your acting like a @#$^%&*. End of discussion.

I think you need a break from this discussion. Go take a deep breath. Relax. And when you're ready to be reasonable I'll be here.

 

[Cosmo_ac]

Ladies and gentlmen, if you wish to discuss S&M related material, my advice is simple. Just ignore Drew. This thread was created for people who enjoy S&M to discuss it, so, discuss it. Drew finds the actions of people here, even though both parties consent and enjoy there activities in a safe manner, as respulsive, insulting, etc. And he's welcome to his opinion, which will never change on the subject no matter how well the argument is made, so it;'s a futility to talk with him about it. Just talk about whichever subject you like, and as the old saying goes, "Don't feed the Trolls". 😉

Enjoy your conversation.

 

[Johnny Ticklish]

Ladies and gentlmen, if you wish to discuss S&M related material, my advice is simple. Just ignore Drew. This thread was created for people who enjoy S&M to discuss it, so, discuss it. Drew finds the actions of people here, even though both parties consent and enjoy there activities in a safe manner, as respulsive, insulting, etc. And he's welcome to his opinion, which will never change on the subject no matter how well the argument is made, so it;'s a futility to talk with him about it. Just talk about whichever subject you like, and as the old saying goes, "Don't feed the Trolls". 😉

Enjoy your conversation.

Talk about trolls. You pop in here just to call Drew a troll and encourage people to ignore him?? Where was your interest in this conversation 100 posts ago? Go troll somewhere else, Cosmo.

Bringing this thread back on topic since Cosmo derailed it in such a fucked up way, I tend to agree with Drew's assessment. I think women should be given love, tenderness, and kindness. I grew up having been taught that it's wrong to hurt women, and really REALLY wrong to take pleasure doing it. I have a hard time believing that a master's pleasure in hurting a woman ends the minute she gives the safeword, grunt, hand signal, whatever. He's smart enough to honor her request, but given his druthers, I think he'd prefer to continue. Before one of you asks me how I know what a master would prefer, I'll tell you flat out, I don't know. But that's my working hypothesis.

 

[BellaRisa]

i would like to ask this question.... do Doms enjoy giving pain? and those submissives who enjoy receiving the pain. does that make them wrong? i believe myself that if the submissive enjoys having pain, whats the big deal?

also another question..... it was brought to my attention that both good and bad Doms enjoy giving pain but the good Dom will obey the safeword, no matter how much he would like to continue.... do all Doms like giving pain? sorry its all still sort of new to me

isabeau

Heya hon,

No, not all Doms like giving pain. A Dominant is simply the one in charge in a D/s relationship. Topping or playing is what he or she actually likes to do, and it varies greatly from person to person. One can be a top without being dominant; you just like doing cool stuff to people 🙂
Some Doms just like being the one to whom his submissive defers on certain subjects, and pain is never a factor. Heck, there are some Dominant/submissive couples who don't do any of the physical BDSM activities; they just enjoy the control factors. I have a friend who's Dom is helping her with her weightloss program, for example. She reports to him every so often on her progress, has to ask his permission to skip a workout or have something that's part of her diet, that kind of thing. If she disobeys she's disciplined but it's never physical. Other Doms, like mine, enjoy topping by giving another person intense sensation (spanking, tickling, ice play, etc) because they love the reactions they get and the scenario involved; He and I enjoy roleplaying a naughty cheerleader and rival team football player session, for instance . He loves the sounds and reactions involved in spanking, but the idea of actually hurting me turns him off completely. Pain can be a part of it but isn't necessary, that's not what it's about.

A 'good' Dom will always give his sub's happiness, health and well-being first and foremost importance. Just as a tickling Dom will stop when you need him to no matter how much he'd love to tickle you all night, Doms with other interests will stop when they need to do so.

If a submissive (or a bottom, which is a person that likes receiving the sensations/having things done to them but isn't a submissive person) likes pain and enjoys it in ways that only bring him or her happiness and tranquility both physically and mentally, there's absolutely nothing wrong. DVNC could tell you how I "bliss" after a good tickling; I do the same thing after a good hard spanking .

Bella