Are safewords really necessary?

[TMF Jeff]

May I ask what prompted this question? Was there a specific situation? What's going on?

Actually, what prompted the question was all the tickling footage that I've been digitizing for my clips4sale store. I recently edited some video from girls who later told me, or someone else, that they had been completely freaking out and that I had inadvertantly gone too far in tickling them. One girl in particular was mummified at the time, and I didn't have a lot of cues to go by, and I made her freak out and cry, which I hasten to add I didn't set out to do, and regret doing.

BUT!!!

What struck me in particular was that in every case, including the mummification, these girls ended the shoot smiling, claiming to have had a good time, and just fine in every way.

So the question I asked myself was "Would they have used a safeword if they had one?" And I answered myself, "Yes." Then I asked, "Did they need one?" And I was forced to answer, "No, clearly they did not."

 

[Redmage]

Necessary? NO. Maybe, as said here, when first developing a trust between ler and lee but the safeword takes control away from the ler and regardless of what any others may say and or believe, control is and always should be in the hands of the LER not and NOT the lee.

Nice to know that's a law of nature, independent of what anyone else says and believes. Sheesh.

 

[TickledToDeath]

Nice to know that's a law of nature, independent of what anyone else says and believes. Sheesh.

Heh heh.....think about it, no matter what, the LER is really in control. She/he is the one who has the LEE tied up and the one tied really dosen't have a whole hell of a lot of control how would he/she?
Some ler can be tied and an evil dominant female ler can pretty much tickle that person for as long as she wants regardless of what the LEE says when you truely think about it!

I personally again, will impliment a safeword IF the LEE demands it but most of the folks we play with, have full trust with us and deservedly so because we have earned and gained that trust so most of the time a safeword is not needed.
IF there is a problem with the lee during one of our sessions which mind you has NEVER happened, that lee will know what to say to get us to stop prematurely of the intended time.
Sometimes the game is to MAKE the LEE "cry uncle".

If the LEE has truely had enough, when we stop for a breather/break, we just ask......."are you done"? If yes is the answer, the lee is untied and the next victim takes her/his place....

 

[TMF Jeff]

Nice to know that's a law of nature, independent of what anyone else says and believes. Sheesh.

let's try to keep this cool please...

 

[TickledToDeath]

Jeff,

In my opinion, it clearly depends upon the situation. It probably is true that the more intimate the relationship, the better a top can read a bottom. On the other hand, in a casual play or new relationship situation, having a safeword is absolutely crucial, if for no other reason than for the trust established by agreeing to respect the bottom's limits and the formalizing of that agreement by use of a safeword. I'm sure you've played with many bottoms that love to beg, plead and carry on because it helps them get into the scene more - "stop, stop, oh my god, I'm dying, You're KILLING ME" - but most of those bottoms only feel comfortable losing themselves in a scene like that if they know that "yellow" REALLY means "hold on a second." All this assumes that the bottom is really ticklish, and could reach her or his limit. It also assumes that "I'm having a heart attack" could itself be a safeword (phrase), but only if the bottom would never say anything like that while actually enjoying herself, in the heat of the moment.

Another thing I'd like to say (and this is in no way specifically directed at you, Jeff) is that I don't think it's for us tops to say. I think the rules of safe play are in place to protect the bottom, and so it's for THEM to decide whether they want to use them... right? Does anyone disagree?

May I ask what prompted this question? Was there a specific situation? What's going on?

There ya go!
Exactly!
IF trust is established and the LEE forgoes the use of a safeword, then there is no "safeword" but if the LEE feels he/she HAS to have one for whatever reason he/she has...then the ler should abide by such request.
The lee crying uncle or whatever word may not mean she/he wants the whole scene to end but may feel he/she needs a quick break....two seperate issues really, like the yellow, red word usage.

 

[Redmage]

let's try to keep this cool please...

I thought I was being cool. Just pointing out what seemed a fairly sweeping statement.

TTD, there's control and control. The 'lee's choices about whether or not to file charges after the ropes come off probably should be seen as a measure of control. At least, if the 'ler has any aversion to jail-house gray.

 

[TickledToDeath]

I thought I was being cool. Just pointing out what seemed a fairly sweeping statement.

TTD, there's control and control. The 'lee's choices about whether or not to file charges after the ropes come off should probably be seen as a measure of control. At least, if the 'ler has any aversion to jail-house gray.

LOL! Well in THAT case, then the LEE probably does have control but then again, therein lies that trust issue again! The LER must trust the LEE as much as the LEE must trust the LER.
Sure, the LEE can be all cooperative and all and then once the LER has her tied up she cries RAPE....who will the law believe? (A rhetorical question)
🙄

 

[Redmage]

LOL! Well in THAT case, then the LEE probably does have control but then again, therein lies that trust issue again! The LER must trust the LEE as much as the LEE must trust the LER.

Exactly my point. If the 'ler needs to have trust, then he or she is not in complete control (control takes away the need for "trust"). So the idea that he or she is and always should be in control is nice in fantasy, but it ignores some fairly important real-world issues.

 

[Eroticklee]

I don't think a safeword is necessary if the tickler pays attention to the lee and doesn't take it too far. after all, this is supposed to be about fun and excitement, not hurting people.

 

[maniactickler]

I dont believe in using safe words. i use common sense.

 

[TickledToDeath]

I don't think a safeword is necessary if the tickler pays attention to the lee and doesn't take it too far. after all, this is supposed to be about fun and excitement, not hurting people.

Exactly! Regardless of the intensity of the tickling, it can be fun for both if both parties are into it!

 

[Myriads]

Jeff pondered: Are safewords really necessary?

It’s important to note that this question is being asked in the strict context of tickling play.

Ok, that limited scope is important, but let us step back and look at why safewords are used in general when power exchange is being experienced between two people. That in my eyes, will more then help answer the question.

Safewords are there to protect both the sub and the Dom from a variety of issues that can arise in a play session.

At the most basic they are a way for a sub who has limited physical control of a situation to bring it to a stop if the experience has become too physically punishing in any way. The why the situation has become to much can vary, (Dom error, sub over estimation of capacity, sudden physical change) but they all result in a state where the sub is in fear of damage they do not wish happening to their person. The safeword provides a way to stop this unwanted result.

The safeword also acts as a trust tool between the Dom and sub. It’s existence is an agreement that there are limits to the scope of the act that are under both parties control. This is important in all D/s relationships, as trust is the foundation of the best play. Without it, a sub can never fully submerge into the experience, as they are always on watch. Without it, the Dom has no security that they has not pushed too far or gone someplace where they should not go. Things that build this tool are important and needful.

Most importantly the safeword acts as a fallback guard for psychological surprises.

I, as a Dom and Sadist have played a lot of ways with a lot of people. I tend to play only with people that I feel I know very well, and have a good handle upon. People that trust me enough to play without safewords. People that are skilled subs.

But more then once while playing with someone I know well, I’ve stepped on a landmine that neither I nor the sub even knew was in their subconscious. Mostly it’s amazingly clear when this happens, and one stops immediately. But some landmines are sneaky and the emotional wave they release surprises the sub and drowns them slowly and quietly. By the time they realize something is very very wrong they may be in very deep. A safeword stops these times cold.

In late 1992 I tickled a sub who almost had a full emotional break because she suddenly made a mental connection with tickling (which she loved) with some deep buried abuse that she had suppressed. Her safeword stopped the action in time for me to get her unbound and find out what the hell happened to her, and why she had become literally psychotically upset.

So....

While I play with people who often don’t wish to use safewords for the very reasons that many lees above listed, I see them as an important tool that hurts nothing to have about, and perhaps can head off a huge amount of badness. So I support them.

Do they ruin the fantasy by limiting My power? In my eyes, no. There are things that will end a scene instantly if a sub says them to me regardless of safeword status. The sub always has a measure of power in exchanges that are consensual. It’s part of the design of ‘consensual’, it’s just there. All a safeword does is codify the escape button, and make it clear to all. They know, I know. I’m not having to guess between the good screaming and the bad screaming. The good crying and the bad crying.

Add in that I think they are vital for building the trust relationship in any new paring of partners and they become a habit that I think people should always work to have.

Are they necessary? No. Recommended? Yes. Strongly.

Myriads

 

[TickledToDeath]

I dont believe in using safe words. i use common sense.

I totally agree. If the ler is paying attention, a safeword should never even have to come into play, so to speak.

 

[LeeAllure]

I don't like safewords. That said, the first time I seriously
play with someone I'm likely to use "red, yellow, green"
just because. After that, if I decide I want to repeat that
experience with that person, I don't use them. I don't allow
them. And that goes for tickling as well as more s/m activity.
I think that the people I've tickled over the years would let
me know if something wasn't _right_, which is not necessarily
the same as a safeword, but a notice that adjustment might
be required for some valid reason.

I think that the longer someone perceptive and caring has
been into something involving other people's reactions, (and
knowing what kind of reactions they want to elicit, and how
to make that happen) the less they need the other person
to tell them what's happening with them, whether it's the
first time they've played with them, or the 100th.

I concede that there are idiots out there whom no one should
let tie them up or do... whatever, to them. And that there are
going to be some people so submissive that they'll not take
their own safety into consideration.

There are also some people out there who don't want a safeword,
and want to experience something far beyond any experiences
they have previously had, but because they've always had a
safeword available, may well have cut something short just because
they could, but in retrospect, in no way really wanted to.

Mostly, know the person you're playing with, on both sides.
I can imagine someone dying from laughter; but for the most part,
tickling is one of the safest ways to play (as long as the ticklee
isn't thrashing about dangerously, or in bad bondage).

Lee

 

[TickledToDeath]

I don't like safewords. That said, the first time I seriously
play with someone I'm likely to use "red, yellow, green"
just because. After that, if I decide I want to repeat that
experience with that person, I don't use them. I don't allow
them. And that goes for tickling as well as more s/m activity.
I think that the people I've tickled over the years would let
me know if something wasn't _right_, which is not necessarily
the same as a safeword, but a notice that adjustment might
be required for some valid reason.

I think that the longer someone perceptive and caring has
been into something involving other people's reactions, (and
knowing what kind of reactions they want to elicit, and how
to make that happen) the less they need the other person
to tell them what's happening with them, whether it's the
first time they've played with them, or the 100th.

I concede that there are idiots out there whom no one should
let tie them up or do... whatever, to them. And that there are
going to be some people so submissive that they'll not take
their own safety into consideration.

There are also some people out there who don't want a safeword,
and want to experience something far beyond any experiences
they have previously had, but because they've always had a
safeword available, may well have cut something short just because
they could, but in retrospect, in no way really wanted to.

Mostly, know the person you're playing with, on both sides.
I can imagine someone dying from laughter; but for the most part,
tickling is one of the safest ways to play (as long as the ticklee
isn't thrashing about dangerously, or in bad bondage).

Lee

Nicely said Lee! That which makes you, along with fem lers like yourself and my wife, great, evil and merciless ticklers!

 

[milagros317]

For me, it's part of the fun to have a safeword but see if I can last the whole sessioon without using it. 😀

 

[TickledToDeath]

As I have stated, the only time I personally as the LEE at least, want to use a safeword is if the LER or LERs are trying to MAKE me(or the LEE) say it.

 

[TklDuo-Ann]

See? Now this is why Lee would be on that very short list of people I'd trust in a session like that. She uses the brain God gave her. Sadly, she's in the minority. While not everyone is going to agree that a safeword is necessary or not necessary, I hope we can all agree that using common sense in ANY type of play is an absolute necessity. It's the times when people relax too much and forget about that (or allow themselves to get carried away) that people get hurt.

Hell, I wish everyone out there was as informed and caring as a ler! I'd have a lot more people to pick from when I want to play with others besides Drew! 😉

 

[TickledToDeath]

Thankfully the wife and I have earned the trust of many as well 😀 which dosen't make us any less evil 😀

 

[TickledToDeath]

See? Now this is why Lee would be on that very short list of people I'd trust in a session like that. She uses the brain God gave her. Sadly, she's in the minority. While not everyone is going to agree that a safeword is necessary or not necessary, I hope we can all agree that using common sense in ANY type of play is an absolute necessity. It's the times when people relax too much and forget about that (or allow themselves to get carried away) that people get hurt.

Hell, I wish everyone out there was as informed and caring as a ler! I'd have a lot more people to pick from when I want to play with others besides Drew! 😉

Personally, I don't think Lee is evil enough!

 

[LeeAllure]

I agree. I'm far too nice 😉

Lee

 

[TickledToDeath]

I agree. I'm far too nice 😉

Lee

Yes. We need to do something about that and find you someone to do it to!

 

[BorisandNatasha]

Instead of Safeword, tickling your victim into admitting something or doing something could be just as effective and get the same result.

Boris

 

[Capnmad]

I've got to go with what seems to be an emerging consensus: Safewords are not necessary in all cases, but they are strongly advisable if not necessary in some.

The worst that could happen for someone who misreads cues includes not just being tickled too much, but the fallout from that which could involve emotional trauma or physical damage.

assuming that you could breathe, and that you were not literally having a heart attack, what would happen if you were experiencing this and the ler kept tickling you anyway?

I don't know how relevant that question is. Emotional trauma is is still possible. And heck, a lot of people have heart attacks themselves and don't even know it. While it's unlikely to occur, if it did, it's entirely possible even an experienced 'ler wouldn't recognize it until the damage was done, or perhaps it was too late. Plus, some people, being tickled, are prone to hyperbolic statements which ironically, are not real cues to stop: "You're killing me!" "You're going to give me a heart attack!" So, do you assume it's hyperbolic and keep going, because it's "just tickling", stop because it might be a cue, or keep a safeword on hand for the event that they recognize something real and dangerous is occurring? (Again, the way around this conundrum is practice, knowing your 'lee and what behavior acts as a safeword.)

I don't think the idea of "needing" something to stop should end at, "Do they survive the experience?" Or, "Do they smile as they leave?" Because, yes, people will survive a great deal of punishment, and yes, many will leave with a smile out of courtesy, but will never be willing to do something like that again, after having been pushed that far.

I like to use safewords at the beginning because people react differently, and you want to learn their signs. But once you understand how they react, safewords can be mostly discarded, because their signs act as the safeword. Keep in mind though, that these signs can emerge before any demonstrable signs of serious physical distress. Now, one could also ask of these signs, "What's the worst that could happen if you tickled them beyond that? Someone gets tickled too much." But there's of course an ethical issue of going beyond a person's tolerances if they're unprepared or undesirous of it... I think it should be recognized that however much it's "just tickling", it can get truly unbearable just like anything else that is forced upon someone, and one should watch closely and act empathically to the needs of the 'lee. More extreme limit-pushing should be reserved for the more advanced levels of understanding your 'lee.

The areas of want and need to stop are always a bit hazy, but are best clarified with a good relationship between 'lee and 'ler. Absent that, safewords are key, and a good place to start for beginners just learning about each other.

I don't think that because there are those in the world who shouldn't be involved in or are too irresponsible for power exchange that that in any way invalidates the use of safewords. It only means these are not people to be played with, regardless the safeguards put in place, and safewords with them do not make one safe. Trust should be reserved for people, not procedure. And I'd hope that's just common sense.

 

[marcusb]

Personally, I think the first time you play with someone they should have one since you don't know them and/or their possible limits.

After that, lee choice IMO. Some don't want that "way out" available to them and want to see what's around the corner while others have a comfort threshold they'd prefer not to exceed. Doesn't matter to me really... I'll play as light or hard as someone wants.

Know your lee. Respect your lee. Use your brain. 😉