Boston Public....and "that" word...

[Dave2112]

Ok, I doubt that there are many who saw tonight's "Boston Public" and were unaffected by the subject matter. I could do one of several things here, none of which would be non-controversial.

I could say that people should just deal with the past and move on. This would no doubt piss off the people who have had to live with the vile word "nigger" their whole lives. People who have had neo-nazis, rednecks, assholes and just the plain ignorant use the word to make themselves feel better that they might have something "up" on someone else.

Excuse me. Did I say "redneck"? Did I say "Nazi"?. I'm sorry. I surely didn't mean to offend anyone.

Which brings us to my next attempt.

I could say that African-Americans are out of place for using the word within their own community, showing that there is an even deeper wedge between the blacks and the whites.

I'm sorry. Did I say "blacks"? Did I say "whites"? I surely didn't mean to offend anyone.

I could say that people are justified when their own race is bashed to drag some hillbilly truckdriver out of his rig on the streets of Los Angeles and make him pay for the sins of his race while I had to sit there and watch it happen, horrified at the condition we've accepted as normal.

Excuse me. Did I say "hillbilly"? I'm sorry.

I could say that whitey is conspiring against the black race when our trusted peace officers attack a man of color simply for being a man of color. I saw that as well in my travels.

Excuse me yet again. I said "whitey". So sorry. Please forgive me. I'm just a stupid Mick.

Oh shit, there I go again.

Or I could say that we should understand that words themselves have no power other than the intent with which they're said. No power other than the political motivation that we all seem to be so eager to give them. That a word must be considered either "bad" for EVERYONE or acceptable to EVERYONE. That derogatory slang is hurtful even when used by those it is intended for. That NO joke is funny enough to justify it's use. That you are not "empowering" yourself by throwing what you revile back into the faces of those you wish to seek revenge upon. That we should all try to accept each other for what we are, not where we are from.

And that goes for all of us...Spick, Nigger, Fag, Mick, Wop, Jew, Towel-Head, WhiteTrash, *****, Dyke, Canuck, Frog, Limey, Nazi, Slope...

Oh crap, I said more words in that paragraph I wasn't supposed to say...

"Understand" and "Accept"

Please forgive me. I didn't mean to offend anyone.

 

[qjakal]

A strange world...

A good point Dave, but that particular word is still off limits to whites....as are many words to many other cultures because the entire meaning changes when said by someone "outside" the affected race/culture...I can say things to my Italian buddies and get a laugh, whereas someone else saying the exact same phrase will get a beating...weird world, but that's the way it's currently spinning...Q

 

[Myriads]

Words are powerful. They are gifted with more or less power by the number of people who conjure with them, and the intent that they are layered with when that happens.

Thier energy can be gathered or dispersed by how they are used and how they are viewed.

Curses are worn away with comedy. Racial slurs are twisted into badges of identity. Meanings are reversed.

Words are like magic spells. They only work as well as the target is open to the suggestion of a result happening. If you don't believe in them, they have no power.

Myriads

 

[Scooby112211]

I agree 100% with Dave. Words are words. Deal with it.

 

[primetime]

uses of "racial" words are on a fine line. it depends on who says them, and the manner in how they say them. myself, being african american obviously have some feelings about the word "nigger". i do find it quite amazing that other blacks use the word amongst each other. but if you think about it, of course they can. if a black person is calling another black person "nigger", it is okay because they are both "niggers". there's no harm in that. but if a person of any other skin color chooses to use that word, it ALL DEPENDS in the context it is used. i help out my high school a lot with the football program and the team is predominatly Mexican, and Samoans. the head coach is Samoan, and there are few blacks on the team. yet, the Mexicans and Samoans call each other "nigga". there's no offense to it, it is casual slang talk. it comes from the hip hop culture and again, it is the context on how it is used. but these same people could use it in a negative way, and the result will be different.

these words are a double-edged sword. again, depending on the context in which it is used (and you can usually tell the type of context) it can be inflammatory, but it can also be used as typical slang between friends.

 

[Scooby112211]

Well, the double-standard is really quite irratating. Being a pasty white Irishman, i try to avoid the word "nigger." That being said, it's inserted more times than I care to count into almost every rap song there is. If I am singing along, I am not going to not sing that particular lyric, because that's just silly. It's not like I'm using the word to spit upon someone of a different race, it's just part of the song. I would be more than happy to not use the word...but only if everyone stopped using the word. Otherwise, it's a double standard that needs to be fixed. "Do what I say, not what I do" is a concept that will never work. It is rarely used by caucasians as an insult anymore...so I say stop with the self-segregation, let's all just unite as one. I mean...it's sort of a moot point when Osama bin Laden's ass is trying to blow us all up, regardless of race.

 

[Alex Warfield]

The way I look at it, to stay out of trouble, if there is a word or phrase or whatever that could be offensive to someone, then just don't say it. I don't get pissed off because I can't approach my friends and say, "What's up my nigga?" Having a couple words stricken from my vocabulary is a small price to pay to be able to get along with great people of all race, religion, or gender.

 

[Strelnikov]

A dissenting view...

About 25 yrs ago, in "Blazing Saddles", Mel Brooks used every slur and stereotype imaginable. He dissed whites, blacks, Mexicans, Jews, Germans, Irish, Chinese, Indians (Did I leave anyone out?) He was criticized for doing so. His response was, maybe if we get all of this stuff out in the open and laugh at it, we can make it go away.

Maybe he was right. But he lost that argument, and in these present politically correct times, now we'll never know.

Strelnikov

 

[JoBelle]

Agreement from this corner as well. Any word that labels can hurt when said right...or wrong..depending on your intent. It's not just race either.

It's just like women using the word Bitch jokingly, but God forbid a MAN say it. The terror of flames on his ass and a pox on his family. No? Then there is regional as well. As a Cajun, I proudly refer to myself as a Coon-Ass. It's a colloquialism that means nothing more to us than the bloodline from which we sprang. HOWEVER, I recently found out that it's on par with nigger to some black people in other areas.

Sheesh....I'm so over being polite. I'm going to take my Southern Propriety and try to stuff it away in a box somewhere....but damn if it won't come crawling back tomorrow!

Jo

 

[MadKalnod]

About 25 yrs ago, in "Blazing Saddles", Mel Brooks used every slur and stereotype imaginable. He dissed whites, blacks, Mexicans, Jews, Germans, Irish, Chinese, Indians (Did I leave anyone out?) He was criticized for doing so. His response was, maybe if we get all of this stuff out in the open and laugh at it, we can make it go away.

I'm reminded of a stand-up comic who appears on Comedy Central's Premium Blend, an African American woman named Renae Hicks, who offered the following suggestion to take away the sting of that word:

"We've got to take that word and attach it to something so good and positive that it overwhelms all the bad things it's been used for. Something that will make people happy when they hear it. Like snack chips. People love potato chips and corn chips and tortilla chips, so I'm going to make a new kind of chip called Niggers. They'll come in all kinds of tasty flavors, like Cheese Niggers, Sour Cream & Onion Niggers, Nacho Niggers, Onion & Garlic Niggers... But not Barbecue Niggers, I don't like the sound of that... And they'll be so good and everyone will love them so much, that the only time people will hear that word and get angry is when they go to a party where they don't have any more. 'What do mean you don't have any more Niggers? It just isn't a a party without Niggers. All you've got are crackers, and you can't have party with just crackers.'"

Cheese, Onion, Garlic,... Mmmmm..... I'm behind her on this plan...

There is no force in the universe that can withstand being laughed at.

 

[Dave2112]

To be completely honest, within 5 minutes of making my post, I was terrified that people would take it the wrong way. You guys made my morning by having such deep insight and intelligent responses.

I hate that word as much as the next guy. I hate all of the words I used to make my point. I hate the fact that I even had to use them to make the point. But, my emotions were strong at that time and I've seen too many fights and violence stem from the misplaced use of words.

If there is anyone out there who didn't respond because I upset them, I apologize. Deeply. My intent was to show that we all have things that we can be called and to put the power behind them into perspective. I tried to use every derogatory slur I could think of to prove that it's not even a Black/White thing anymore. There is a gap between any two people of differing backgrounds that needs to be bridged if we are to survive and grow.

I have had online conversations and discussions with Primetime and enjoyed them very much. I'd been doing that for months before I even knew he was African-American. It was a non-issue. Our colors or creeds should have no bearing on our relationships with one another.

Thanks for listening and understanding what I was trying to say.

Peace.😎

 

[ShiningIce]

What exactly happened on Boston Public to start this column. Also, Dont even try to get rid of racism and hatred its ingrained in every person on Earth to SOME degree.......

 

[shark]

I have to agree that context plays a part,although i think far too much is made of the entire situation.Growing up,we heard and used various slurs along the way and we all survived.I have already been in chat and got bitched at...I was quoting someone who has referred to me as a niggerlover.Funny thing was that a moderator had just closed the room for racial slurs being made,and did not object to my reference.Toughen up.
Or maybe I should feel discriminated against because nobody thought to include me in their posts. How could you comprise such a collection of names and forget Polack? How noninclusive can you be?
I feel so harassed and abused............

 

[TickledToDeath]

Words have more power than people can imagine or realize or care to acknowledge.
Words can make others happy.
Words can make others sad.
Words can ease a troubled mind.
Words can drive a spike through ones heart.
Words can be full of pleasure and compliments.
Words can be vile and destructive.
Actions may speak LOUDER than words, but words can cut deeper than any blade and cause deeper damage to the mind heart and soul that can and usually would last a lifetime.

It's only words....but then again.......


TTD

 

[Krokus]

Well

- edited for my past stupidity

 

[G-Force3]

First things first, "nigga" was not started by the Hip Hop Culture and wasn't even introduced by the culture until post-86. Let's get that straight, first. Black people have been calling each other "nigga's" since the times of slavery. Even in books like "To Kill A Mocking Bird", the blacks describe themselves as nigga...

...which leads to the next point. The word "nigga" is never just thrown around unless it's by fake thugs. It's a word of unity between blacks and other minorities with some African influnce. That's why white people are frowned upon when they use the term.

 

[Krokus]

Hmm

- edited for my past stupidity

 

[Biscuit]

I'll make this brief ...

I've been called some terrible, loathsome, awful things in my life. Often without justification, although they generally weren't racial, they sometimes probably were. At any rate, here's my feeling:

I have Never been truly offended or bothered by any of it. It comes down to one simple fact: other people's good or poor opinion of me has Never been nearly as important to me as my good opinion of myself. I never argue, because trying to change your mind implies that I care whether or not you agree with me or my view of the world. I really don't. Just not important to me. As long as I can look at myself ethically in the mirror every morning and see somebody I can live with, I'm actually pretty happy. YOU don't have to be able to live with him, just me.

So ... My feeling is that anyone who is so shallow and narrow that they are so deeply offended by words coming out of somebody's mouth should just go jump off of a goddamn bridge and end their suffering, becuase it will almost certainly not be the last time their sensibilities are offended. I think that would be natural selection at it's best.

I'd be a terrible politician, and a worse lawyer, because both of those professions stress "perception is reality". Bullshit. Reality is physical, not hypothetical.

🙂 NOBODY ever called me politically correct 🙂

And I challenge ANY of you to offend me. Go ahead and try. Betcha you can't, which is my whole point. 😉

Interesting topic, Dave my friend.

 

[Oddjob0226]

O.k, here's some thoughts/theories from me... to get at them, let's go back in time......

In the 1980s, when I was in high school, there were these series of books out, basically known as "Truly Tasteless Jokes.." (there were different volumes, different titles, but in the end, they were all the same). I remember how people were offended, shocked and embarrased by these books. I also remember that people of all races were shocked, embarrased and offended. I also remeber it was people past the age of 35 that were the most shocked, embarrased & offended. I ALSO remember - wow, what a memory!- that the books were incredibly popular...also with all races and with people above the age of 35...ah, the dicotomy of the human... These books were also popular with the high school kids. So, in past times, people actually could look at some of these words, even use them, in humor -albiet tastless humor ( but it was understood to be that..)- and no one got into trouble except for, perhaps, impropriety, like telling such jokes when they really shouldn't have been told, or upsetting some one who would truly be offended. Generally, the jokes were avoided by those who didn't want anything to do with them, relished by those who were fans, and an truce was held between people the rest of the time reguarding such humor. My ultimate point: 10 to 20 years ago, nobody gave a durn abou these words if they were uses in jokes, as long as all parties knew the jokes were of a low brow type and not necessarily the highpoint of wit. No one was fined, no one lost jobs, no one had their careers ruined. People weren't pussified into what offends whomever and the 1st Amendment was pretty healthy. Now, things have become rather strange and mutated.... I'm seing fart and sex jokes (overt, nothing cloy or double entendered) in "family" films, indicating that all humor is for anyone at anytime, and under the 1st Amendment, anything goes... yet, I write a certain little ditty like 'I washed by car SPIC and span so I could take my NIGGARDLY pay and enjoy a night at the HONKEY tonk, but I went home 'cause I couldn't JEW donw the cover charge, and I was all FAGGED out anyway...' and soon I've got a placard carrying PC-Klan gathering protesting on my front lawn for insensitivity. Guess what? Some of us are insensitive! We don't care that a six letter burst of air might bug ya if we are going for a laugh or blowing off steam to vent a potentially bigger burst.... I'm overweight, and and I stil get twitchy when I hear the medical term 'fat cell', but I have yet to march or boycott.... and my feelings don't come from anything historic, they come from personal experience.

Now I had a wonderful part two follow up here.. but somehow I became "unregestered" and this was all I could save. Too bad, too, becasue I figured out a way that would have solved all the problems... but no, I'm not "registered"!!!!!! Well, I'll put up part two when I think it through again and I'm less mad at the computer....

 

[blankpage]

Re: Well

There Will Always Be Racism. Deal With It.

It's this kind of attitude that keeps racism around.

I don't understand the argument "We'll never get rid of racism, so why try." That's like saying "Why should I ever take a bath, I'm just gonna get dirty again, so why bother".

It makes no sense.

 

[Oddjob0226]

"It's this kind of attitude that keeps racism around."

Interesting point, certainly one to think about, but I kind of see it like this. You can take a bath and try your best to stay as clean as you can for as long as you can. By staying clean a long time, that is sort of a victory; besides, it's easy to remedy the problem. Now, with rcism, you just have to look at people in general..when have they ever really gotten along? On a wide scale, pretty much never. People of the same race and similar philosophies still behaved violnely against each other enough to change history. The Puritans had to leave England and come here because they didn't get along with their own kind. In ancient times, the northern Egyptians and the southern Egyptians had their own kings and kingdoms - they were the same race - the same people! Even in modern times, we see the Irish blowing each other up for political reasons, Mid-Easterners killing each other for riligous reasons, and the Hutus and Tutsis kiling each other for... well, on my t.v., they seem to be the same. Humans are prettyt rotten little creatures, adn that's when the are amoung "their own"! Now, how do they usually react when faced with something different? Unless there is a profound change in human evolution within the next 10,000 years, it's going to be a struggle that will never go away.

No I'm not saying we shouldn't try. I am saying we should look at eradicating racism as a noble failure. Something worthwhile, something where the struggle is the victory, and, within those struggles, there will indeed be some triumphs (well,this is a little pessimistic, but look what I have to work with....!!)
O.k., It's like the Thor comic... all the Asguard gods knew the future... their world was going to fall and there would be no more believers. They would lose all power, they would become nothing and their world would be lost in chaos. Yet, they still played their roles because the struggle to keep their world was worth it - they weren't going to give in and LET it fall, it was going to be taken apart. So Loki still played his tricks, Odin still ruled, and Thor still fought for good, helping out Captain America, Spider-man and The Dazzler whenever possible. O.K., I never read Thor, I liked the X-men and Moon Night, but that's how it was explained to me. We must be like the Asguardians, even thought we are more like the Kree and Scrulls.... damn Scrulls!

 

[Zebra]

I think I'd pretty much get lynched at work if I wore a
"February's over, time to get back to White History" T-shirt tomorrow.

It's ok for this one girl in my unit at work to wear a
"Say it Loud, I'm Black and Proud" T-Shirt, and her
"100% Black" shirt....

God forbid I show up in a "100% White, and PROUD TO BE" shirt...
I'd be in H.R. so quick it'd make me wonder if I actually was walking in, or out.

 

[tummyticklish01]

What Zebra said really sparked my interest. Now what i'm about to say is not meant to be racial at all, but seems to be a known fact.

Many other races feel freely about expressing themselves and bragging about how great they are and stuff, i have no problem with this, i think it's awesome, but when a white person goes around and says, "I'm white and it is the best feeling in the world!" It's not gonna go over to well.

I think this is due to the ugly past, were white people never exactly were mistreated for their color, but if you look at slavery and stuff like that, you'll see other races have had tough times. Now could that actually have a connection, the past causing this racial future. I definitely think so.

 

[Oddjob0226]

Here's a thought.....

Back in the late 70s to mid 80s, when slahser films were the big thing, people often complained that it would desensitize us to violence. While I personally don't think so - since the violence was simply too unrealsitic to see or duplicate in real life, and therefore was hardto relate to, unlike the violenve in war, policee and mafia films - it raised an interesting point. Too much of one thing can desensitize you. So - instead of hiding from these words, why not just use 'em? A LOT! And use them when they don't even make sense. Call a black dude a honkey, A French guy a sand-nigger, Polish guy a pollack ( I don't think he'd notice - hee hee!) You know, just cut lose with the words and eventually no one will really care. How many times do you here damn, hell, shit, asshole, and worse everyday? I'm not saying these are nice words, bu they ssure don't pack the punch they used to, and I certainly wasn't supposed to say these things when I was growing up. Many people don't. But m,any people do. It's de-sensitivity. I used to call my WHITE friends all sorts of racila names in high school, becasue we knew it was good for a laugh and it was like kind of bucking the system. Just use the words - as nouns, verbs, adjectives.... how dark was it? It was jigaboo dark! How exspensive were these tickets? Man, they were Kikey Kikeman exspensive ( got that one from Howard Stern...) We need to worry more about the Taliban, cancer, serial killers and alcoholics driving Buicks than we need to worry about lexicon. Use the words enough, in 10-20 years everyone will be doing it and few would care.

 

[Frink]

Zebra

Originally posted by Zebra
God forbid I show up in a "100% White, and PROUD TO BE" shirt... I'd be in H.R. so quick it'd make me wonder if I actually was walking in, or out.

You do bring up an interesting perspective...one that I think many share but probably don't admit to. The only thing I can say is you have to factor in the existing inequalities/imbalances in the world/society.

You have to remember that for the longest time Af-Ams did not think that way. They were told explicitly and implicitly, in both direct and subtle ways, that they should not be proud of their race. Parents raised children in this light for generations. You may not choose to believe it but, many Af-Am STILL need to hear a message like that because on some levels many are NOT proud of it.

tummyticklish01 made a very valid point too. It is the troubled past that has made the present what it is today. Just because we don't see or choose not to see what has happened and continues to happen, doesn't make it any less true.

Forget race for a second and look at the struggles of WOMEN in this country, for example. Look at all the ads, commercials, t-shirts, groups, etc. that are essentially just women standing up and saying they are proud of being women. Given what women have gone through and continue to go through, would you say they are wrong for doing that? Would you say they hate men? Would you say that means you are not proud of being a man? Would you say that all men should now go around saying to all how proud they are of being men?

To me thats just being completely insecure and irrational. By almost any metric you want to choose (US or worldwide) men have more power, money, status, and influence....by LARGE margin. (How would women feel if men were walking around saying that?) Men should be HELPING women get to the point where they don't have to do things like that. Then men (we 🙂 ) won't have to worry about feeling insecure.

If we all took that appproach (regarding race, age, gender, sexual preference, etc.) maybe we'd all stop marching, organizing, having parades, etc. and then burn our collective t-shirts. lol