Bullying

[grandizer]

Everyone has at one time or another experienced a bully. Maybe even still do today. Your boss, people you know, etc.

I teach Kenpo and last night I had a student that was bullied so much that his parents transfered him to another school. This is becoming a real problem.

What ever happened to the good ole days when you just had it out then were friends? Now adays if kids fight they get fined? They write tickets here! 250$

But if the students tell the teachers, nothing gets done about it. I know violence is never the way to go, but I think by telling kids they can't fight or defend themselves we are taking life lessons away from them. A weak kid might discover he is strong where a strong kid may discover he is weak. This was part of growing up when I was young. I think this whole thing is just a clusterf@$k.

For one students should not have to move because of bullies and they should be able to defend themselves without worrying about getting fined or suspended.

Any thoughts on this from my fellow TMFers?

 

[General Zod]

Bullies are nothing more than fucking cowards and hypocrites. When they push people around,it was just a joke. When you do the so called responsible thing,like telling an adult,you are labeled as a tattletale by the bully.


But when you stand up to them? Then they run crying to an adult,therefore becoming a tattletale themselves.

Far as I am concerened,kids who are bullied should gang up on bullies,and beat the shit out of them. Just not on school property.

 

[kurchatovium]

I was bullied constantly in elementary, junior high and high school. Finally I just snapped and basicaly went ballistic on the bully saying I was gonna beat him so bad his kids would inherit the bruises. He ran off and never bothered me again. I learned a valuable lesson that day. There times you need to stand up and hold your ground. I wasnt bullied after that. Too bad it took me 12 or so years to figure it out. 😛

 

[grandizer]

That's my whole point my friend. Kids today get fined for that shit. It's so stupid!!

 

[kurchatovium]

That's my whole point my friend. Kids today get fined for that shit. It's so stupid!!

I know. It was same problem I had though I think its much worse now. As an example I had a friend who saw someone tinkering with the school lights and he told him to stop. The guy chased him down beat the holy heck out of him and they both got suspended for 3 days. What?? My friend didnt even get a chance to throw a punch and he got suspended. They said he instigated the fight. I said no YOU instigated the fight by not stopping that bully from tinkering with the lights. My friend just had more balls then all of you combined. 😀

 

[BlackestLily]

Everyone has at one time or another experienced a bully. Maybe even still do today. Your boss, people you know, etc.

I teach Kenpo and last night I had a student that was bullied so much that his parents transfered him to another school. This is becoming a real problem.

What ever happened to the good ole days when you just had it out then were friends? Now adays if kids fight they get fined? They write tickets here! 250$

But if the students tell the teachers, nothing gets done about it. I know violence is never the way to go, but I think by telling kids they can't fight or defend themselves we are taking life lessons away from them. A weak kid might discover he is strong where a strong kid may discover he is weak. This was part of growing up when I was young. I think this whole thing is just a clusterf@$k.

For one students should not have to move because of bullies and they should be able to defend themselves without worrying about getting fined or suspended.

Any thoughts on this from my fellow TMFers?

I work near the Detroit area and get kids from places like Pontiac. Talk about school of hard knocks. I can assure you, I DO do something about bullying when I see it. Saying teachers do nothing is quite a blanket statement.

And do you know what's a pain in the ass? When kids DON'T tell me. Then they get to have their false teenage bravado, hormones, and anger, and get the shit kicked out of them in a parking lot, thinking they can take a bully and the bully's friends. Quite frankly, it usually doesn't work like that. And when you get some kids like mine? We're talking drugs, guns, and all kinds of stuff that doesn't belong anywhere near a young human being. When staff is told about it, we REMOVE the the bully from our school. I'd rather not have to scrape some kid off of the school parking lot so he can see if he can earn his manhood that day.

That's my "teacher perspective".

 

[General Zod]

I work near the Detroit area and get kids from places like Pontiac. Talk about school of hard knocks. I can assure you, I DO do something about bullying when I see it. Saying teachers do nothing is quite a blanket statement.

And do you know what's a pain in the ass? When kids DON'T tell me. Then they get to have their false teenage bravado, hormones, and anger, and get the shit kicked out of them in a parking lot, thinking they can take a bully and the bully's friends. Quite frankly, it usually doesn't work like that. And when you get some kids like mine? We're talking drugs, guns, and all kinds of stuff that doesn't belong anywhere near a young human being. When staff is told about it, we REMOVE the the bully from our school. I'd rather not have to scrape some kid off of the school parking lot so he can see if he can earn his manhood that day.

That's my "teacher perspective".

Bless you for doing something about it.I guess times are different today. Back in my day,when a bully was told on,said bully would just get even with whomever told on him.

 

[BlackestLily]

Bless you for doing something about it.I guess times are different today. Back in my day,when a bully was told on,said bully would just get even with whomever told on him.

I have to admit, I have some good stories from high school too. There was a young, very pretty and thin girl at my school. She talked shit on EVERYONE. It didn't matter who it was, they were fat, ugly, stupid, gross, and definitely not worthy of her presence. One day she happened to say those things about a girl who was about 6'4" and 250 pounds. All I can say is...sweet justice. The taller girl found her in the hallway and drilled the little one's head straight into a locker. After a hospital visit, we didn't hear too much out of her anymore.

High school has this weird way of making bullies feel invincible. I always enjoy pulling the wind right out of their sails. 🙂

 

[grandizer]

I have to admit, I have some good stories from high school too. There was a young, very pretty and thin girl at my school. She talked shit on EVERYONE. It didn't matter who it was, they were fat, ugly, stupid, gross, and definitely not worthy of her presence. One day she happened to say those things about a girl who was about 6'4" and 250 pounds. All I can say is...sweet justice. The taller girl found her in the hallway and drilled the little one's head straight into a locker. After a hospital visit, we didn't hear too much out of her anymore.

High school has this weird way of making bullies feel invincible. I always enjoy pulling the wind right out of their sails. 🙂

There is a saying that a good teacher is a work of art and lily you must be. Not many teachers that care anymore. Case in point. There was a young girl in my kenpo class who came in to learn to fight. Three kids had been meeting her at the bus stop and beating the shit out of her. One day her mom watched her daughter. Two girls and a boy came up. The boy pushed the girl down and one of the girls stepped on her head and pushed her head into the mud. The mom ran up and ran off the kids. She asked the bus driver if she knew this was going on. She said "Yea I see it, but I can't stop it." The school bus driver said that! the little girl learned kenpo and beat the shit out of all three of them. Ha!!

As far as the school bullies, yes they are the ones that should be removed. Not the students that are picked on. But Lily think about it. Your a kid and your scared shitless. Would you be afraid of what the bully might do? Common! You can't just expect kids to tell. And when you say guns are involved, well that makes things ten times worse. Now they're really scared to tell.

 

[BlackestLily]

There is a saying that a good teacher is a work of art and lily you must be. Not many teachers that care anymore. Case in point. There was a young girl in my kenpo class who came in to learn to fight. Three kids had been meeting her at the bus stop and beating the shit out of her. One day her mom watched her daughter. Two girls and a boy came up. The boy pushed the girl down and one of the girls stepped on her head and pushed her head into the mud. The mom ran up and ran off the kids. She asked the bus driver if she knew this was going on. She said "Yea I see it, but I can't stop it." The school bus driver said that! the little girl learned kenpo and beat the shit out of all three of them. Ha!!

As far as the school bullies, yes they are the ones that should be removed. Not the students that are picked on. But Lily think about it. Your a kid and your scared shitless. Would you be afraid of what the bully might do? Common! You can't just expect kids to tell. And when you say guns are involved, well that makes things ten times worse. Now they're really scared to tell.

The top story illustrates a bus driver. I am a teacher. Do you realize if anyone at all knew I was informed of bullying and did nothing about it, that's one of the best ways to get fired? Never mind the fact that I would never allow it in my room ANYWAY. But I would be FIRED.

Yes, I do expect kids to tell. You've basically just said it's better the kids beat someone up than tell someone. But if a kid is scared about what the bully might do, don't you think they'd be even MORE afraid to face said bully?

Do you know the types of kids I get who are bullied? The different ones. The ones who have Asperger's autism. The ones who love to read anime and wear pokemon t-shirts. The ones who dress strangely and have odd social behaviors, say odd things, or really anything that sets them apart. These kids are the ones who tell me things like, "Two years ago the bullying was so bad, I wanted to kill myself." They did not say, "I just wanted to beat that bully up." They said they wanted to KILL themselves. They couldn't beat every single person up who picked on them. Most were even too physically weak to take on someone like that (not to mention bullies friends).

I stand by what I say. In my professional experience and based on what the kids have told me, it's better to inform an adult and have the bully dealt with for good than try some perverse form of street justice that could get someone hurt or killed.

I can just imagine how wonderful and productive our schools would be if we let "animal kingdom" mentality take over. Issues with another kid? Kick the shit out of them. THAT'LL show'em. As much as I love to think only good could come from it, I know better.

 

[grandizer]

The top story illustrates a bus driver. I am a teacher. Do you realize if anyone at all knew I was informed of bullying and did nothing about it, that's one of the best ways to get fired? Never mind the fact that I would never allow it in my room ANYWAY. But I would be FIRED.

Yes, I do expect kids to tell. You've basically just said it's better the kids beat someone up than tell someone. But if a kid is scared about what the bully might do, don't you think they'd be even MORE afraid to face said bully?

Do you know the types of kids I get who are bullied? The different ones. The ones who have Asperger's autism. The ones who love to read anime and wear pokemon t-shirts. The ones who dress strangely and have odd social behaviors, say odd things, or really anything that sets them apart. These kids are the ones who tell me things like, "Two years ago the bullying was so bad, I wanted to kill myself." They did not say, "I just wanted to beat that bully up." They said they wanted to KILL themselves. They couldn't beat every single person up who picked on them. Most were even too physically weak to take on someone like that (not to mention bullies friends).

I stand by what I say. In my professional experience and based on what the kids have told me, it's better to inform an adult and have the bully dealt with for good than try some perverse form of street justice that could get someone hurt or killed.

I can just imagine how wonderful and productive our schools would be if we let "animal kingdom" mentality take over. Issues with another kid? Kick the shit out of them. THAT'LL show'em. As much as I love to think only good could come from it, I know better.

Look I'm not trying to argue with you lily. I was just stating some situations that happened. As far as telling. You know it's easier said than done. No I was not saying it's easier to face the bully.

We have had kids kill themselves in our school district. One of my son's friends did. So yea I think I have a small idea of what goes on when students get pushed to the edge.

As far as fighting goes. It seemed to work for the last 50 plus years. Kids fought then became friends, but that was before chickenshits started carrying guns. I don't believe it was called animal kingdom back then. It was called.....values. Life lessons.

But as far as being physically weak. That's Bullshit! Unless they have an illness or something like that. Anyone is capable of doing anything. There are plenty of kids in my class that could easily take on someone twice their size. They don't think they are weak because no one refers to them like that.

Either way learning to stand up for yourself is part of growing up.

 

[grandizer]

Another fact. I deal with the parents of students alot who get bullied and want their children to learn self defense. They do it because they have gone through the proper channels and nothing is done. So I'm glad you do lily, but not everyone is you.

 

[BlackestLily]

I guess my annoyance is mostly being vented in how teachers always become "the enemy". I don't know how or when it happened, but according to our state, we are the reason the state is broke, we are the reason bullying continues to exist, we are the reason kids are failing in massive numbers, among...lord knows what else. I would say most, if not all, of my colleagues would do the same as me in terms of standing up to bullies and making sure every kid felt safe and welcome coming to school.

And sadly, the last 50 years aren't today. I would love for street justice to work itself out. Every time I watch a school boot a kid out, sometimes I just think...man...that kid needs such a swift kick in the ass...that usually they don't get. And when I say some kids can't? I mean some of these bullies have the training that the bullied kids just start getting if they NOW entered martial arts. I had a kid this year fight in amateur MMA/UFC style fights. Granted I never saw him bully anyone, but with his build and know-how, I'm pretty sure he could've kicked the can off most of my boys and girls.

I think that anyone should have at least minimum knowledge in defending themselves if something ever arose where they needed to protect themselves, but I also believe in going through other channels for the kids as well to remove the bully completely. I speak strongly about this because I feel very strongly about it, so I'm sorry if I come off as offensive and abrasive to you. But it scares the shit out of me thinking of one of my kids as a smear on the pavement.

 

[grandizer]

I guess my annoyance is mostly being vented in how teachers always become "the enemy". I don't know how or when it happened, but according to our state, we are the reason the state is broke, we are the reason bullying continues to exist, we are the reason kids are failing in massive numbers, among...lord knows what else. I would say most, if not all, of my colleagues would do the same as me in terms of standing up to bullies and making sure every kid felt safe and welcome coming to school.

And sadly, the last 50 years aren't today. I would love for street justice to work itself out. Every time I watch a school boot a kid out, sometimes I just think...man...that kid needs such a swift kick in the ass...that usually they don't get. And when I say some kids can't? I mean some of these bullies have the training that the bullied kids just start getting if they NOW entered martial arts. I had a kid this year fight in amateur MMA/UFC style fights. Granted I never saw him bully anyone, but with his build and know-how, I'm pretty sure he could've kicked the can off most of my boys and girls.

I think that anyone should have at least minimum knowledge in defending themselves if something ever arose where they needed to protect themselves, but I also believe in going through other channels for the kids as well to remove the bully completely. I speak strongly about this because I feel very strongly about it, so I'm sorry if I come off as offensive and abrasive to you. But it scares the shit out of me thinking of one of my kids as a smear on the pavement.

Hell no! We don't blame teachers down here. We blame the Government and all the monkeys up in office. We spend billions of dollars a year on defense. I think a little more could be sent toward education. And all those weapons and defense didn't do shit for us on 9/11. The enemy got us anyway.

I personally think teachers should be the highest paid profession there is. I know doctors save lives, but who teaches the doctors about all that medicine. Who teaches them before they are doctors. If not for teachers the great geniuses that have changed history would not have been. Ya know?

So you have my respect Lily. What you do is an honorable, respectable and noble thing. If not for you, we would be lost.

I didn't take any of that personal. But I might be seeking you out come next Nest. lol

 

[BlackestLily]

Hell no! We don't blame teachers down here. We blame the Government and all the monkeys up in office. We spend billions of dollars a year on defense. I think a little more could be sent toward education. And all those weapons and defense didn't do shit for us on 9/11. The enemy got us anyway.

I personally think teachers should be the highest paid profession there is. I know doctors save lives, but who teaches the doctors about all that medicine. Who teaches them before they are doctors. If not for teachers the great geniuses that have changed history would not have been. Ya know?

So you have my respect Lily. What you do is an honorable, respectable and noble thing. If not for you, we would be lost.

I didn't take any of that personal. But I might be seeking you out come next Nest. lol

I don't mean to come off as a heroic martyr. Quite frankly...well...I'm anything but. I sit on my lazy ass on weekends and play video games or read comics. But every ounce of me feels for those kids who feel like they don't belong in the world. So I think we agree many levels. We're just approaching our thought process on opposite ends. 🙂

 

[Skipadeedoodah]

As far as the tell an adult/fight it out debate, I have mixed feelings. I've seen both ways work and I've seen both ways fail, but I don't think either answer is really the solution. The solution is that parents need to learn to give a damn. Instill some values in your children that teach them that bullying someone is wrong, and when some of them go out there and it anyway, hand out some serious consequences. Unfortunately the world is always going to have shitty, lazy, careless parents, so kids are going to be putting up with bullies forever.

Also, I don't know much about martial arts, but everything that I do know indicates that martial arts aren't meant to teach someone to kick ass. They're meant to teach someone discipline, respect, and self-defense (not the same as kicking ass) as a last resort. If I sent my kid in to a martial arts class I certainly would not be expecting the instructor to teach them how to put a bully in their place. Then again, I wouldn't take my kid to a martial arts class for that reason, either. To each his own, I guess.

 

[LD_Tickler]

Well... is it one or the other? I was taught to keep my cool and tell an adult when that was an option, but to fight when it wasn't.

Of course, relative to some of the bullying scenes we're talking about, even my worst childhood experiences in suburban Canada were pretty tame.

 

[goddess_nemesis]

Bullies don't always involve violence. There are bullies who taunt and insult you. Verbal abuse is just as bad as physical violence. Sometimes no matter if you stand up to a bully, they'll continue with their verbal abuse.

I've always been fat. I was fat as a child and I grew up fat. I was never physically hurt by bullies but I certainly was verbally hurt. It happened on the bus and on the playground and in the hallways. Nobody wants to sit by the fat kid, you might get squished. If a fat kid runs, other kids will pretend to fall down and yell "Earthquake". What can a kid do when the teachers ignore the taunts? What can a kid do when the bus driver is annoyed because you have sit down and not because someone won't scoot over? What can a kid do when after he/she calls out the bully "I'm fat so what?" and they continue with their cruel words?

It's the same and/or worse for any kid who is perceived to be different. Fat, skinny, gay, nerd, geek, emo, whatever.

Too often teachers ignore bullying and too many kids learn that no one cares. No wonder a kid will commit suicide. Death can seem like a relief than to endure more cruelty.

 

[socktickler86]

I was never bullied during school so maybe I don't really have the best perspective on things (and no that doesn't mean I ever was the one doing the bullying). To me, kids up until a certain age (up to probably 6th grade) should duke it out. I don't think kids up to a certain age can intellectualize the consequences of bullying. Beyond that when you get into junior high and high school, anyone who beats up another kid should be removed from school or some other big punishment. Also, the BS about the kids who get beat up also being suspended/expelled is beyond stupid. It teaches kids that even if you do no wrong, you are going to get in trouble (not that that doesn't happen in real life, but it's the exception, not the rule). At that age, kids need to start practicing their newly developed ideas about the real world consequences of their action. When they learn these weird ideas that being bullied is part of life or that reporting bad behavior is wrong, that translates into being the victim of bullying as an adult. Same for the bullies, they take the lessons they learn to the real world as well.

 

[Skipadeedoodah]

I don't think kids up to a certain age can't intellectualize the consequences of bullying.

Based on the surrounding parts of your post, I imagine you mean you don't think kids *can* intellectualize...blah blah blah, and I disagree completely. My niece is seven years old and just finished first grade, and she is most certainly capable of understanding the difference between right and wrong and the consequences of saying hurtful things to others. Once again, it goes back to putting in a little bit of effort. Parents need to have a little bit of forethought and recognize opportunities to teach their children lessons in a way they're going to understand and relate to. You can't randomly sit your kid down and say, "by the way, don't bully anyone ever. Bye." But if you hear your kid innocently say something that could be hurtful, you take that opportunity to explain to them that that's not okay and why. Flip the script and ask them how they'd feel if someone said it to them. It takes more than 2 minutes, and you probably can't find a TV show that will effectively do it for you, but it's certainly not impossible to teach a kid not to be an asshole until they're in 12 years old.

 

[BlackestLily]

Also, the BS about the kids who get beat up also being suspended/expelled is beyond stupid. It teaches kids that even if you do no wrong, you are going to get in trouble (not that that doesn't happen in real life, but it's the exception, not the rule).

I'm not sure what you mean by this, as I've literally never heard of this being done. The closest thing I can relate to it is in many schools now, if someone starts trying to "beat you up" you can defend your body from harm, but cannot go on the offensive and go apeshit crazy right back. If you do go on an offensive, you will also be on a trouble list. Is this what you're referring to?

 

[LD_Tickler]

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I thought I didn't know I felt on this issue, but then again, I feel nothing but satisfaction and justice watching this so.... I guess that shows my true colours.

 

[BlackestLily]

I thought I didn't know I felt on this issue, but then again, I feel nothing but satisfaction and justice watching this so.... I guess that shows my true colours.

Whenever I see wee little man-peanuts trying to obviously engage and threatened someone who could curb-stomp them with a big toe, I immediately think of nature shows when they discuss how males get female attention and mark their territory. Full, gloriously colored plumage, strutting around the mating ground.

 

[LD_Tickler]

Whenever I see wee little man-peanuts trying to obviously engage and threatened someone who could curb-stomp them with a big toe, I immediately think of nature shows when they discuss how males get female attention and mark their territory. Full, gloriously colored plumage, strutting around the mating ground.

I'll have you know that if it wasn't for my lush plumage and alluring strut, I'd never get laid.

 

[BlackestLily]

I'll have you know that if it wasn't for my lush plumage and alluring strut, I'd never get laid.

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