Cack =/= Art

[Headsnap]

Kal, Kal, you need to stop mixing me up with the guy who started this thread.
I never once called for a crack down on anyone. I merely suggested that
these artists could be better served by having more balanced comments.
I don't want them to stop posting, nor do I call for the casual posters to stop
posting. I have simply suggested that they put a little more substance and comment to the fluff.

Did I call for a crack-down on anyone? No. I'm merely asking for artists to be realistic and critical when it comes to looking at their artwork and for commentors to moderate their behaviour slightly when it comes to doling out random praise for shite. By the looks of this thread I'm also not the only one who's been having similar thoughts.

 

[laughinggaszone]

You see, this is not just about economy.
This is also about ego-boosting.
The reward is being seen and replied to, in itself.

If you get them. I've seen many posts, by very skilled artists, in which not a single comment is left. The poster goes as far as to post a follow up, asking why no one has commented, even though there are some 1500 hits.

And if you're also catering to a paying audience, each reply effectively works as a free ad too.

Again, no. I can attest to this personally, bad press can blow up on you.
It's like car wreck. Yeah, folks like to slow down and see the spectacle, but they wouldn't want to be in one. People in forum's tend to check out the threads with conflict and/or high hits, but that doesn't mean they want to
do anymore than that, and can even be turned off if the posts are largely negative.
webmaster joe

 

[Kalamos]

If you get them. I've seen many posts, by very skilled artists, in which not a single comment is left. The poster goes as far as to post a follow up, asking why no one has commented, even though there are some 1500 hits.

Yeah, that sounds familiar.
That is why I pointed out that, with weak but popular art, adding extra commentary to the already sizeable number of fan posts is over-kill.

One's poor at drawing, but he's drawing popular chars, he's got friends, AND he's got critics, keeping his thread on top.
It's almost like being good to begin with is a fault.

In the end, it doesn't matter whethere you're good or bad, as long as you draw popular chars, and maybe make a nice fuss over it...

You are reminding me why I used to get bitter over lack of replies.

😀

Again, no. I can attest to this personally, bad press can
blow up on you.

Not sure.
Depends on the kind of bad press, the situation, the setting.
It's not always clear and cut.

That thing with Kate Moss springs to mind.

 

[laughinggaszone]

Yeah, that sounds familiar.
That is why I pointed out that, with weak but popular art, adding extra commentary to the already sizeable number of fan posts is over-kill.

They don't get THAT many responses. Besides, I'd rather have a few more, with well rounded criticisms than a dozen with nothing but fluff.

You are reminding me why I used to get bitter over lack of replies.

😀

Expectation is often a setup for disapointment. If you pin your hopes on getting a response, let alone positive ones, you are setting yourself up for
a fall. Eventually, it will happen.
webmater joe

 

[Kalamos]

They don't get THAT many responses. Besides, I'd rather have a few more, with well rounded criticisms than a dozen with nothing but fluff.

Hey, we can only wait and see.

Expectation is often a setup for disapointment.
If you pin your hopes on getting a response, let alone positive ones, you are setting yourself up for
a fall. Eventually, it will happen.

Well, life is about falling and rising back to one's feet, isn't it?

😉

 

[P[a]pi]

I agree with Shadow. I have many favorite artists and when they post stuff I look at it and when I like it I comment on it. I don't like every pic from all my favorite artists because I'm picky and I might not like the position or whatever. That doesn't mean the artwork isn't great. It just means that I didn't find the pic attractive. So just look at threads from artists that you like.

And I don't think constructive criticism is needed either, unless the artist asks for it. I mean most people who post low-level artwork on here or TT are doing it for fun. They don't expect it to pay the bills eventually. It's not that serious.

Getting mad at them is like getting mad at people who are bad at video games. Unless they plan on being a professional gamer just let them have fun.

 

[laughinggaszone]

And I don't think constructive criticism is needed either, unless the artist asks for it. I mean most people who post low-level artwork on here or TT are doing it for fun. They don't expect it to pay the bills eventually. It's not that serious.

I'm afraid you're missing the point. A balance needs to be struck between the gushers who post casual praise and the tactless critics who post one line (and sometimes one word) opinions, such as "You suck" or "Shit". Both are harmful in their own way (as has been discussed). Well thought out and constructive criticism is important to minimize both (but mostly the latter) of these two kinds of posts. Even if the artist is doing it for fun, that is not going to stop criticism. If criticism isn't going to stop, then we can at least call for it to be well thought out and considerate, not casual and tactless. At least if the person doesn't like something, they can give a more detailed and thoughtful analysis than "shit." Do you see my point?
webmaster joe

 

[Kalamos]

Even if the artist is doing it for fun, that is not going to stop criticism. If criticism isn't going to stop, then we can at least call for it to be well thought out and considerate, not casual and tactless. At least if the person doesn't like something, they can give a more detailed and thoughtful analysis than "shit." Do you see my point?

I'm afraid you are not seeing his.
Drawing for most ppl is just a pastime. Just like videogames or softball, or painting scale models, or name_your_hobby.

As I said, balance could be furthered by commenting on pro or would-be pro artists.

Giving drawn-out criticism to hobby artists is kind of utopian.
And, as I tried to explain, it creates needless clutter.

...

Besides, considering nobody out of the paid artists can draw anything like Alex Cross, they [we] could all use insightful criticism much more than casual artists.

Given that, if you already have a list of likely candidates, by all means, act on it.
Choose a promising artist, and start supporting him/her.

Just talking about it makes you look a bit zealous, without factually contributing to the well-being of the forum.
You said would-be critics could use a good example.
Be that example, and we'll see how it works out.

 

[laughinggaszone]

I'm afraid you are not seeing his.
Drawing for most ppl is just a pastime. Just like videogames or softball, or painting scale models, or name_your_hobby.

Yes, but you're assuming people are not going to post negative criticism.
my suggestion is that people post something more than casual posotives and negatives. to simply ask the negative posters won't get much of a response.
They will feel singled out and rightly so.

As I said, balance could be furthered by commenting on pro or would-be pro artists.

Lets be honest, the "pros" can always use critical analysis, but all what most want is exposure. they have already achieved soem level of craft and respect.
It's teh doodlers and scribblers who could use more.

Giving drawn-out criticism to hobby artists is kind of utopian.
And, as I tried to explain, it creates needless clutter.

Again, I disagree. No artist gets so many posts that it creates clutter.
and if you make those posts more meaningful, they are not clutter.


...

Besides, considering nobody out of the paid artists can draw anything like Alex Cross, they [we] could all use insightful criticism much more than casual artists.

Actually, I know Alex and have told him that he can't draw chicks for shit.
His current serie, Justice, only has good looking women because he has an
assstant penciler onboard. There are at least three artists on this board who can do better women than Alex and may even be as skilled in pencil work. Alex's true skill is painting.

Given that, if you already have a list of likely candidates, by all means, act on it.
Choose a promising artist, and start supporting him/her.

Plenty of artists can use some advice and pointers.

Just talking about it makes you look a bit zealous, without factually contributing to the well-being of the forum.
You said would-be critics could use a good example.
Be that example, and we'll see how it works out.

True, but asking me to take on all these fledgling artists, while you (a skilled artist in your own right) sit back and do nothing is a bit lazy. I'll be happy to mentor someone (who wants it) if you take on one (that also wants it).
webmaster joe

 

[moonknight80200]

Whichever of you threw that "garimto" thing together as a parody of cack artists, all I can say is brilliant! You hit the nail right on the head. That was bloody hilarious. If it's not a parody, well... 🙄

 

[laughinggaszone]

Whichever of you threw that "garimto" thing together as a parody of cack artists, all I can say is brilliant! You hit the nail right on the head. That was bloody hilarious. If it's not a parody, well... 🙄

Not me. I think it's justa coincidence, but who knows.
webmaster joe

 

[Kalamos]

Yes, but you're assuming people are not going to post negative criticism.

Well, now, I'm not a native speaker, so I might be going by my own language, but criticism is usually negative.
If it were perfect, you wouldn't get criticism.

Unless you meant it by a more general sense of giving out an overall evaluation, but then again, it feels funny to me.
With some drawers, it's like doing mic comments on kids playing soccer at the beach.

Lets be honest, the "pros" can always use critical analysis, but all what most want is exposure.

Dunno.
Speaking on my own behalf here.
If somebody were to slip me a few good pointers on how to do what I can't do yet, I wouldn't complain.
I just recently started using tips ppl gave me 10-15 years ago.
You never know when help could come in handy for me.

It wouldn't take anything more intimate than a PM or two, and balance would be preserved without giving undue exposure, Mithras forbid, to my own threads.

they have already achieved soem level of craft and respect.

If I have to speak on my own behalf again, I measure respect by number of replies.
I had to bump myself a few times, before ppl would even take notice.
I'm just learning how out to get some exposure without resorting to all out self-bumping.
I wouldn't cry if somebody were to drop by and say: "hey man, not bad. I could see me watching more from you".

Well, maybe yes. I won't settle for anything less than "awesome", now.
I mean, if all other artists, weak and good, are "awesome", why on Earth I'm just "not bad"?

😉

Again, I disagree. No artist gets so many posts that it creates clutter.

Well... one's praises are somebody's else clutter.
Or some of us wouldn't be upset at posses of guys camping threads and having a month-long picknick exchanging niceties.

😀

Actually, I know Alex and have told him that he can't draw chicks for shit.

Don't get me wrong, but I hope he punched you. 😉

...

No, seriously, I know.
Some of the most famous artists out there actually are the result of an outstanding team of talents.

I got to see some sketches from a prized Italian artist, and they were just shoddy.
It took a full bunch of ppl to make them the masterpiece end-users got to buy

True, but asking me to take on all these fledgling artists, while you (a skilled artist in your own right) sit back and do nothing is a bit lazy. I'll be happy to mentor someone (who wants it) if you take on one (that also wants it).

I've helped out ppl in the past.
Some were grateful. Others, well, just not as much.

I'm already helping out a great artist with huge potential, in the shadow.
Unless he chooses to come out and thank me, I'm not going to tell or take any more "disciples".

 

[Celtic_Emperor]

I'm afraid you're missing the point. A balance needs to be struck between the gushers who post casual praise and the tactless critics who post one line (and sometimes one word) opinions, such as "You suck" or "Shit". Both are harmful in their own way (as has been discussed). Well thought out and constructive criticism is important to minimize both (but mostly the latter) of these two kinds of posts. Even if the artist is doing it for fun, that is not going to stop criticism. If criticism isn't going to stop, then we can at least call for it to be well thought out and considerate, not casual and tactless. At least if the person doesn't like something, they can give a more detailed and thoughtful analysis than "shit." Do you see my point?
webmaster joe

You refer to it as casual praise, but I refer to it as idle praise. I think idle is a better word to use than casual, because casual seems commonplace but doesn't imply any sort of error, problem, or grievance. Idle, on the other hand, expresses perfectly how people simply get into the habit of saying sugar-coated things that are nice and dandy and make everyone happy without really thinking about it. Its idle, its empty, it doesn't move or generate anything.

Theres no proof that they mean what they say or that they even thought about it for a moment what it was they were saying. Perhaps they didn't think about it and merely chose what they thought was a good response because it had a favorable sounding word or two in it. Perhaps it was subconsious. This is why you have folks overdoing it with the praise and overcompensating with it by saying obviously incorrect things like calling people "the best" when they are obviously not if you were to actually compare them, or "awesome" when they are not. Rather than using truthful, realistic words, like "good" and "ok", or "average", everything is "awesome" and designed to inflate the self-esteem of the artist and the post is so blandly, idly, superficial in appearance and drone-like. Like you were programmed to say it or you just don't know the worth or level of what you're saying, like its all the same to you and the words all have the same significance, which makes them appear to be used too loosely. It didn't come from the heart. It's idle. And unless you prove otherwise, its easy to interprete it as such. Whether someone is giving you a thorough critique and praising you, or doing the opposite, and criticising something in your work in detail, at least thats something. Idle praise is nothing, as it has no substance. Its like running on fumes, as opposed to actual gas.

Words leave the mouth (err, keyboard) so easily, but well-thought out posts do not, which is why good posts stand out. Its almost like being brain-dead or just saying it because of impulse, habit, or conditioning. What a relief it is that there are other people here with knowledge and understanding of art who are willing to call a spade a spade and not get caught up in that kind of trend or habit. People that are willing to state the techinicalities and realities of things in order to suppliment their opinions are doing more of a service to the artist than not. Its certainly not idle praise.

 

[IcelandCreature]

That opening post made me feel really uneasy.

While constructive criticism is actually the ideal thing for people to use when reviewing artwork on TMF, it's completely another thing to claim that people will 'mass-produce' crappy art and clog up the artwork forum with it. That's pretty unfair in my opinion... do you really think people are happy at the niche they are in their artwork, when it's bad? Of course not. If they post two dozen bad pics, let them. They're still getting better. Of course, by saying blindingly positive things isn't going to help, but neither is calling them a 'cack' artist.

Another problem is the issue of this kind of topic dividing the TMF artists into two categories. On the one hand, you have the 'elite' members, who have been established by their good art. Then, you get the apparently 'cack' artists, who unless they practice a lot are going to never get into this hallowed bunch of elite artists. I have no idea where I fall, due to my huge inactivity on the board and my low number of art posts (most of them were probably deleted when Yoxio closed down)... but that really isn't the point at all.

Yeah, I'm just pretty annoyed by the whole thing. What do you think the 'elite' artists were before they were so good? Unless they were some kind of prodigy, they also must have been 'cack' at some point, too. You can't just dismiss anyone still learning to draw as 'cack', and claim they're clogging the artwork forum. They're making the effort, so advise them on how to improve, or if you dislike their art so much, don't look at it.

 

[laughinggaszone]

That opening post made me feel really uneasy.

While constructive criticism is actually the ideal thing for people to use when reviewing artwork on TMF, it's completely another thing to claim that people will 'mass-produce' crappy art and clog up the artwork forum with it. That's pretty unfair in my opinion... do you really think people are happy at the niche they are in their artwork, when it's bad? Of course not. If they post two dozen bad pics, let them. They're still getting better. Of course, by saying blindingly positive things isn't going to help, but neither is calling them a 'cack' artist.

Actually, there are artists who have NOT improved in years. I blame part of this on the fact that no one has given them polite technical critcism. all they are getting are "Great pic" "Lookin' good" & "Nice piece".

Another problem is the issue of this kind of topic dividing the TMF artists into two categories. On the one hand, you have the 'elite' members, who have been established by their good art. Then, you get the apparently 'cack' artists, who unless they practice a lot are going to never get into this hallowed bunch of elite artists. I have no idea where I fall, due to my huge inactivity on the board and my low number of art posts (most of them were probably deleted when Yoxio closed down)... but that really isn't the point at all.

"Hallowed bunch of elite artists"...careful sir...none of the artists who might meet the crtieria of that title has claimed it. You have so labeled them, whether purposefully or by example. The artists, by an large, are not the ones who create this "divide" or the title, it's the fans.

Yeah, I'm just pretty annoyed by the whole thing. What do you think the 'elite' artists were before they were so good? Unless they were some kind of prodigy, they also must have been 'cack' at some point, too. You can't just dismiss anyone still learning to draw as 'cack', and claim they're clogging the artwork forum. They're making the effort, so advise them on how to improve, or if you dislike their art so much, don't look at it.

No one, including the person who started this thread has ever suggested that
the artists who might meet the criteria of "cack", should stop posting. I have
personally encouraged that they continue. No, the suggestion was that those persons posting comments, make them more meaningful with comments more than casual praise, "Nice pic, dude!" or insensitive criticism, "Piece of crap."
Balanced criticism will reduce these two basically ego stoking or ego crushing, but technically worthless kinds of criticisms.
webmaster joe

 

[Kalamos]

What do you think the 'elite' artists were before they were so good?

This is why I was wary of this whole thread, in the first place.

...

If you really have a bone to pick with somebody, please read through the whole thing.

Your post is pointless if you can't point a finger in the right direction.

Nobody labelled himself elite, over here.
Better than others? Yeah, maybe. That's life.
Elite? No way.

...

For your information, I'm rather upset now.
I never posted so much of a negative word against a fellow drawer.
I won't apologise for something I haven't said.

And the original poster, as far as I know, can't draw for shit, so he speaks as a "fan", not as an "elite artist" of sorts.

You can't blame anybody but him for his words.

 

[moonknight80200]

it's completely another thing to claim that people will 'mass-produce' crappy art and clog up the artwork forum with it.

But that is precisely what is happening in some cases.

do you really think people are happy at the niche they are in their artwork, when it's bad? Of course not.

I disagree. Some of them have been posting the exact same kind of stuff for literally years with no discernable improvement whatsoever. So yeah, they must be pretty satisfied with their level of accomplishment. Perhaps due in part to the casual praise described by those who've participated in this thread?

 

[Headsnap]

That opening post made me feel really uneasy.

While constructive criticism is actually the ideal thing for people to use when reviewing artwork on TMF, it's completely another thing to claim that people will 'mass-produce' crappy art and clog up the artwork forum with it. That's pretty unfair in my opinion... do you really think people are happy at the niche they are in their artwork, when it's bad? Of course not. If they post two dozen bad pics, let them. They're still getting better. Of course, by saying blindingly positive things isn't going to help, but neither is calling them a 'cack' artist.

It's calling a spade a spade. If you're bad at something you're not being encouraged to improve by having people tell you you're great all the time, because that will make you think that your cack is good and therefore you won't make the effort to improve on it.

Another problem is the issue of this kind of topic dividing the TMF artists into two categories. On the one hand, you have the 'elite' members, who have been established by their good art. Then, you get the apparently 'cack' artists, who unless they practice a lot are going to never get into this hallowed bunch of elite artists. I have no idea where I fall, due to my huge inactivity on the board and my low number of art posts (most of them were probably deleted when Yoxio closed down)... but that really isn't the point at all.

It's not about everyone being an elite, published, professional fetish artist, because some of the best artists that have been part of the community never got their stuff published in a medium where they'd be getting paid for it. It's about developing basic skills so your drawings don't look like they've been shat out of the mental ward's "draw your feelings" seminar.

Yeah, I'm just pretty annoyed by the whole thing. What do you think the 'elite' artists were before they were so good? Unless they were some kind of prodigy, they also must have been 'cack' at some point, too. You can't just dismiss anyone still learning to draw as 'cack', and claim they're clogging the artwork forum. They're making the effort, so advise them on how to improve, or if you dislike their art so much, don't look at it.

The 'elite' artists, as you like calling them, were most probably cack at one point; however they've worked on and improved their art so it's half decent. They most likely did this through a long process of drawing stuff, posting one example, having it criticised and then making other drawings which took on board the criticism they received before posting another single example of their work further down the line and having that criticised, and so on. The people I'm taking issue with don't do this; they post one mental-ward drawing, people pipe up and tell them it's great so they start serialising their crap and posting it every five minutes, making pin-ups of their horribly deformed characters and so forth, because they're so proud of the critical acclaim their poo is receiving that they honestly believe it's worth looking at. That doesn't help anyone.

I'm also not trying to label people who are still learning to draw as "cack"; their art may well be cack whilst they're learning, but if they work at it the day will come when it won't be cack any more. It might be slightly different style-wise to other people's art but that's a good thing, and I have never and will never deride someone or call their artwork "cack" because of the style they choose to employ.

Lastly, I try my damndest not to look at artists whose stuff I dislike, however there's so much of it that it's becoming impossible to ignore. Hence the reason for making this thread :O

 

[Celtic_Emperor]

I disagree. Some of them have been posting the exact same kind of stuff for literally years with no discernable improvement whatsoever. So yeah, they must be pretty satisfied with their level of accomplishment. Perhaps due in part to the casual praise described by those who've participated in this thread?

True. Casual praise (idle praise as I like to call it) goes full-circle and obviously not in a good way. If an artist is not the type to challenge themself to newer and better things, then it needs to come from others, like fans and friends. Problem is, its idle praise, and all idle praise returns is complacency. It flatters, but thats all it does. It doesn't challenge the artist to think, let alone try something different or new.

Actually, because this is a fetish website, the problem is complexed even further, since all people here want are fetish scenarios, and those are very one-sided and often very repetitive and bland as is the way they are drawn and also by way of plot (girl gets captured, tied up, and tickled....geez, I wonder where I saw that before). As a theme, it doesn't inherently demand that the artist improve or grow or learn new things, only that they are capable of satisfying the whims of others over and over again. Fetish art may be fun, but its definitely not healthy for this reason. Growth is not sponsored and all this teaches are a set traits and themes necessary to be successful in this type of art, but not necessarily successful (or even happy for that matter) as an artist. Because the fetish doesn't change, if this is all they draw, then they're already screwed whether they get critiques or not. It becomes less about the art, fundamentally, and more about whether or not they can entertain other people's fetishes or not, versus another artist's ability to do the same thing and we base success on that, rather than quality of art or experience. The fetish will always overshadow artistic principles, since if a picture can still get a person excited, then its done it's job and it's quality and the effort that went into it, is of less concern.

The general environment is one of appeasement, and that runs contrary to an artist's fundamental growth and freedom. Because the fetish is a carnal one, artwork and stories are the last mediums that can honestly fulfill one's desires and apetites to the full. Because many fetishists are desperate for any type material that caters to their fetish, one must consider that another reason idle praise exists on this site is because of the fetish itself: people don't want to lose the "meal ticket" the artists provide, so they kiss up to them and brown nose them so they stay. This is just as bad, if not worse, than giving idle praise due to your inability to do anything else because now it also includes keeping the artists here at any cost, even if it means lying to them.

I feel sorry for beginner artists who end up growing in that type of environment. Because they're new, they're not going to know whats going on, so its all the more easier for them to fall into these situations and possibly never get out of them.

 

[moonknight80200]

Actually, because this is a fetish website, the problem is complexed even further, since all people here want are fetish scenarios, and those are very one-sided and often very repetitive and bland as is the way they are drawn and also by way of plot (girl gets captured, tied up, and tickled....geez, I wonder where I saw that before). As a theme, it doesn't inherently demand that the artist improve or grow or learn new things, only that they are capable of satisfying the whims of others over and over again. . . It becomes less about the art, fundamentally, and more about whether or not they can entertain other people's fetishes or not, versus another artist's ability to do the same thing and we base success on that, rather than quality of art or experience. The fetish will always overshadow artistic principles, since if a picture can still get a person excited, then its done it's job and it's quality and the effort that went into it, is of less concern. . . Because many fetishists are desperate for any type material that caters to their fetish, one must consider that another reason idle praise exists on this site is because of the fetish itself: people don't want to lose the figurtive "meal ticket" the artists provide, so they kiss up to them and brown nose them so they stay. This is just as bad, if not worse, than giving idle praise due to your inability to do anything else because now it also includes keeping the artists here at any cost, even if it means lying to them.

All good points, CE. That being said, and speaking strictly for myself, scenario is of secondary importance to technique. I'd rather look at a beautiful, intricately crafted drawing of a woman being tickled in some mundane fashion than a malformed scribbling that the "artist" claims depicts a certain celebrity or cartoon character being tickled in even the most innovative way. I'm speaking in a strictly hypothetical sense here. Honestly, I've yet to see a cack artist come up with anything other than the "my favorite star in the stocks/tickle machine".

 

[Celtic_Emperor]

All good points, CE. That being said, and speaking strictly for myself, scenario is of secondary importance to technique. I'd rather look at a beautiful, intricately crafted drawing of a woman being tickled in some mundane fashion than a malformed scribbling that the "artist" claims depicts a certain celebrity or cartoon character being tickled in even the most innovative way. I'm speaking in a strictly hypothetical sense here. Honestly, I've yet to see a cack artist come up with anything other than the "my favorite star in the stocks/tickle machine".

Thats good to know.

 

[JPC_Poserartist]

Wow, looks like a lot of people have chimed in with their opinions, so I guess it wouldn't hurt to throw mine in the mix.

Being a newish Poser artist myself (only been doing it for the past 6 months), I totally support anyone who wants to be creative and post their own artwork, and I think doing so should be supported by all. But I also see the topic creators point of view re: low-quality artwork. Yes, a lot of the art I see posted here does look low quality or even crude. Honestly, if that's the best the person can do, I find no fault in that. That's just how it is, and they shouldn't have to stop doing what they love or enjoy just because it doesn't meet a certain high standard set by a few.

I also agree that people should be able to share constructive criticism (read: helpful, not being an ass and just saying something "sucks"). If people have the right to share their work, then people also have the right to write what they think of said work. If something that looks crude to you has a bunch of people writing that it looks wonderful, what does it really hurt? Maybe those people *gasp!* actually like the work? The same applies to those who don't like the work; they should most definitely voice their opinion, but hopefully in a way that is helpful to the artist. Does that make sense?

JPC

 

[Celtic_Emperor]

Does that make sense?

JPC

Of course it makes sense. (By the way, thank you for sharing your opinions with us).

Unfortunately, I have seen it that the attitude is different for praise than it is for criticism. There are definitely unspoken double-standards in place that people are not aware of until its happening. For example, it has happened many times where everyone is praising an artwork, and one person or a couple don't share that view point, and their opinion is on the opposite side of what everyone else is saying or its similar, but has criticisms attached to it whereas the majority of responses do not. Its not a "you suck" thing but a comment like "wasn't my thing" or something like that. Like an indifferent remark. Rather than everyone else (ie- the majority) respectfully either ignoring this criticism and viewpoint or responding to it with respect, it has happened where the people with the opposing view are practically ostracized for their viewpoint and are not tolerated.

Even though they're a majority, its as if they're insecure with letting those few people be. They feel the need to correct them or confront them, and thats not right. Criticism is generally frowned upon and because it is it has created an atmosphere where artists are really sensitive or aren't prepared for critiques (and neither are the fans), because they've been overly coddled and haven't actually been told what they can do to improve. When they finally hear things from people, they're not well-prepared for them, they're ill-prepared. If criticism and praise were in balance we wouldn't be having this conversation or this thread right now.

 

[scorpionldr]

I hate to be on the bandwagon, but realistically, people that can draw can draw (like Tomato Dragon for one), and those that can't either give up or they train themselves to get the skills they need.

Personally I don't mind cack....I click on this page, I click on that page, either way I find what I'm looking for. But there would be a lot less clutter if there werent' cack

 

[keeganbarton]

I hate to be on the bandwagon, but realistically, people that can draw can draw (like Tomato Dragon for one), and those that can't either give up or they train themselves to get the skills they need.

Personally I don't mind cack....I click on this page, I click on that page, either way I find what I'm looking for. But there would be a lot less clutter if there werent' cack

I have never posted here, yet i've been looking at the forum since it started way back when. Though, this whole thing right here got even me to respond. I have to somewhat agree with scorpionldr.
Who really cares what people post? I mean it does get annoying seeing the same bad drawings each time, but you must admit that they slowly improve. Have we all forgotten the point of having a artwork forum? It's to post art. Said and done, and if people don't like your artwork, get better, or quit. I like what I like, and I don't put any artist down, because in perspective, atleast they are kind enough to post their drawings in the first place.

That is all, just needed to get that out there.