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do you think tookie Williams should be put to death?

I

isabeau

Level of Double Diamond Feather
Joined
Jul 20, 2005
Messages
19,945
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just wondering what everyone feels about this. i just left ctv chat where they are arguing about whether or not he should get death. someone said he has done good things in prison. now i dont believe in the death penalty, and i believe he is doing these good things to save his ass. he should be left to deteriorate in jail. also i just heard he got the Nobel Prize in literature. i wonder if he hadnt committed these crimes, and gained notoriety from this, and had written the same book, if it would still have received this illustrustrious award.

isabeau

o ps he is scheduled for execution this tuesday at midnight. in california.
 
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hmmm he was a gang member and maybe the leader of the cribs? i'm not sure, anyway he killed four innocent people. and then wrote a book i think in prison. dang you would ask lol i'm not sure who he is.

isabeau
 
isabeau said:
hmmm he was a gang member and maybe the leader of the cribs? i'm not sure, anyway he killed four innocent people. and then wrote a book i think in prison. dang you would ask lol i'm not sure who he is.

isabeau
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gang's .... hhhmmmmm ... I think it's prolly best I don't comment on that, except to say MS13 is very scarey from what I've heard.
 
Storm_Cat said:
gang's .... hhhmmmmm ... I think it's prolly best I don't comment on that, except to say MS13 is very scarey from what I've heard.
Click to expand...

um now its my turn. what is MS13?

isabeau
 
Isa I don't believe in the death penalty either but I don't like to see these people get all this attention, one is because they did something so wrong that a jury convicted beyond a reasnible doubt and then it's becomes look at what they are doing now ? were I ask what would the dead victim be doing now if still alive but no one will ever know the answer to that one. I heard his supporter have nominated him for a Nobel Prize but never won, so I ask myself were is the money going from those childrens books is it going to his family or the family of the victim cause I don't think he would of wrote them if he wasn't in prison. I say bunk him next to Charlie Manson and lets not forget he did start one of the worst gangs to every united in LA and is still killing people to this day. Let him keep writing his books if there saving just one kid from joining a gang I'm all for that, but lets not forget his past.
 
tookie williams was a crip....hes accused of killing four people, which he denies...i dont think hes writing books to save himself...u know, people do have changes of heart and can become better people...i hope he isnt executed but he probably will be unfortunately
 
He is the founder of the crips, who's opposing group is the bloods, the 2 most well known gangs in LA. He is a murderer and created a gang that has caused nothing but horrible violence. Has he changed? Maybe, 6 years of solitary confinement does that kind of thing but doesnt absolve him of his crimes

I believe in eye for eye, you take someones live out of passion\personal enjoyment, you should lose your life. Hell if he wants to influence people better, you'd think being a martyr would be more influencial

Its sad how this story gets more press than the west memphis three, and one of the kids is still pending his execution....all cuz he listened to metal and researched wicca

www.wm3.org
 
Apparently Tookie is now working to keep people away from the gang life. Plus he commands a lot of respect in the gang community, the Bloods and the Crips are apparently only keeping a truce because Tookie is asking them to. As far as I can see if Tookie can get people out of the gangster life and prevent a gang war erupting, then he should get a life sentence and constantly attend community help programs.
 
Murder doesn't solve murder. Let him live. Let them all live.
 
Ask the families of the people he murdered. Ask the family of the man he shot in the back with a shotgun and then bragged and laughed about it. Ask those whom he shot execution style. It is not hard to change when you are in solitary confinement, you might as well ask if he would have changed if he was still on the street. He does not encourage gang members in prison to talk to police, because he doesn't want them to become "snitches." It sounds like he is more concerned about people "ratting" each other out, than saving lives. If the victims families want clemency, then grant it, if not, he should use this as an example as to preach to against joining a gang by showing them what the consequences for that type of life.
 
DEV said:
Apparently Tookie is now working to keep people away from the gang life. Plus he commands a lot of respect in the gang community, the Bloods and the Crips are apparently only keeping a truce because Tookie is asking them to. As far as I can see if Tookie can get people out of the gangster life and prevent a gang war erupting, then he should get a life sentence and constantly attend community help programs.
Click to expand...

Then why are the crips and bloods still around? To hang out at the local ymca to talk about the former LA raiders?
 
Since I don't want to get into a P & R debate here (but you can find out what I think of the death penalty if you visit that forum), I'll just give a site where you can find out more about this topic: The Execution of Stanley Tookie Williams (You might have to register to view the page, but it's free.)
 
The man is a mass-murderer... What he has done in the interim could be due to a change of heart, or it could just be to drum up sympathy for his cause.

In either instance, however, the world is better off without him. Writing a children's book does not absolve one of murder. The "truce" between the Crips and the Bloods is a joke. They've quit killing each other in order to focus on other things- like drug-pushing, protection rackets, prostitution, robbery, and the intimidation and murder of ordinary, decent people like you and me.

I vote for carrying out his richly deserved sentence.
 
MS 13 is a Central American drug gang borne of paramilitary personnel from the Contra/Sandanista conflict of the '80s. Now they are all about drug profits and keep up their cred as tough guys. They have reached into Texas at this point.

Tookie has been doing some really good things. Funny, though, that he wouldn't have to be doing all these good things if not for what he helped start in the first place. 50 years from now, when no one is around who personally bears the pain that his crimes caused, he'll probably get a postage stamp for his repentive good deeds. Which, in the future, is fine. It is a very good & noble thing that Tookie has been redeemed and is helping people. I can't praise that enough. Somewhere he woke up and started caring. He is now guaranteed a place in heaven when the state of CA kills him. Kind of like when the alcoholic Mickey Mantle said 'Here's your role model: Don't be like me" and was dead of spreading liver cancer within the month of saying that.

"Let them all live...." :cupid: I recall the case discussed here on the TMF earlier in the year when that mentally ill woman cut off her baby's arms. Here was someone who had an actual biological problem, her crimes germinating from a damaged internal organ - much like a cancerous breast or a failed liver that so often garners public displays of sympathy - not from a lifestyle decision. Yet so many here were completely happy that she should get the death penalty. Why not continue such good cheer for this case?
 
the thing about the death penalty. it doesnt deter someone else from killing. it never did obviously. and if anyone deserved the death penalty, it would be those five horrible people who let their children burn to death a while back in weston west virginia. i think that was where it happened. they locked the kids, five in all, in the attic, and pretended like it was an accident. the fire workers who tried to rescue them had to have counseling, for hearing the children crying for help. all five children died. and janet reno at the time wanted to change the rule in WV, so these five creeps would face the death penalty. welll not only did that not happen, but these five people are free. so much for justice.

thanks for responding and giving your various opinions. his death wont bring back those four people. and his clemency is still awaiting Arnold.

and if anyone should have escaped the death penalty, it should have been karla faye tucker, who i truly believe had a change of heart, not just because she was in prison and facing death, but she was no longer on the drugs which influenced that horrible killing she participated in.

isabeau
 
Come on...he really wasnt that bad....yeah sure he made some Colt 45 commercials, appeared on the Jeffersons and was in 2 Star Wars films...but come on he deserves better!

Huh? What?
Oh my wife just informed me that Im confusing Tookie Willams with Billy Dee Willliams.....
Never Mind.

Rob
 
robace252 said:
Come on...he really wasnt that bad....yeah sure he made some Colt 45 commercials, appeared on the Jeffersons and was in 2 Star Wars films...but come on he deserves better!

Huh? What?
Oh my wife just informed me that Im confusing Tookie Willams with Billy Dee Willliams.....
Never Mind.

Rob
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o lord rob you too funny

isabeau
 
killing him won't make anything better, and most inportantly, it won't bring back those who were lost.


I'll never understand the death penalty..
 
I go back and forth on the death penalty. In Tookie's case, he'll either be executed or spend the rest of his life in jail. For most practical purposes, he's already dead. Execution is just a more complete way of killing him.

We don't have a justice system, we just have a revenge system. However, I'm not saying that I mind that. Justice is kind of a lofty goal to achieve among humans. Maintaining order is much easier and more practical than achieving justice, and the death penalty effectively puts many people's minds at ease concerning crime. Granted, a significant portion of America is pissed off at the death penalty, but I guess they haven't realized that justice is unrealistic.
 
Tookie ...

I know someone who knows some Bloods, but that doesn't colour my opinion here.

Should Tookie die? He was sentenced to death for the commission of plural capital crimes. Evidence presented to a court convinced a jury that he had done terrible things, things that put him beyond the pale of society.

In the state where he committed those offences, the death penalty was the sternest available.

No exculpatory evidence has since been advanced. He did those things. He can't undo them with what he does later, for whatever reason and with whatever beneficial effect. I doubt you'd find any criminal, not even a Bundy, of whom nobody could say anything good either before or after his crime.

If the law does not carry out the sentence it passed on Tookie based on the evidence presented, that lessens the importance of his crime. It lessens the authority of the law. All those people who feel they have good and sound and convincing reasons for breaking laws, from "this is true justice" to "that's just a stupid law", have another argument to back them. Look at Tookie. He reformed, he's not a threat now. Let's just wipe the blood off the slate and start over.

Sorry. I don't think so. If he has reformed, then he knows he did wrong, and he's known since he did it what the punishment was. He knew when he pulled the trigger. And, whatever his remorse has made him do since, the Crips are still out there, still committing more crimes and blighting more lives, and all of those are his responsibility too. More blood on the slate.

-----

Should there *be* a death penalty? Much more difficult question. I'll take the fifth for now, I've babbled enough 😉
 
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