Take heart, friend.
primetime said:
i fall into that "nice guy" personality type and that saying "nice guys finish last" resonates in my head. i have actually considered being a little more "bad boy" towards women, but my personality wont let me do it. i love to laugh too much. i love to treat people with respect too much. i dont want to lead people on, or hurt their feelings, or use them. i grew up listening to songs like Ralph Tresvant's type songs like "Sensitivity" and "Stone Cold Gentlemen". i love listening to romantic songs. remember that K-Ci and Jo-Jo song "All My Life"? man, i really want to sing that song to that special someone. that's how i patterned my personality as i grew up. i wanted to make a girl feel special because seeing her happy makes me happy. i cant bring myself to treat women like crap. so, i'm stuck as the nice guy and i usually end up sitting here, playing video games, rather than enjoying the company of a woman that i love. dont get me wrong, i am NOT a pushover. but, if i can avoid stupid drama, i let people get their way if it is within reason. let some stupid crap come up and trust me, i can argue and stick up for what i believe with the best of them.
<SNIP!>
anyone else have this "fear"? i just needed to get this off my chest. thanks for reading....
First, let me sympathize. I'm a 30-year old male who's in the same boat. I was just recently inspired out of my sexless seven-year depressive rut (a rut precipitated by a romantic failure, my own sexual repression, the suicide of my best friend, and the acquisition of a dead-end job -- all of which transpired in the span of about a year from 1998-99. Top that!).
Anyway, I was inspired out of it largely because of my passion for life and the realization that it was passing me by. Additionally, I reunited with an old friend who I'd once had a crush on, and who once had a crush on me, but we never let each other know. Now, she's in NY, and I'm in PA, and she's intent on getting her writing career off the ground, and so, does not seem to think she can be bothered with men.
🙁 Apparently, one she moved in with left her high and dry with an apartment to herself and bills to pay, etc. etc. So, she's realistically been dissuaded from moving in with someone, and I can't blame her. Besides which, while she and I share a bond and some level of attraction, she also clearly has a thing for this guy in Indiana who very much has the "bad boy" thing going on, and with whom she is in regular contact.
Now, "TickleMePleeze" brought up the book "The Game" by Neil Strauss. I also have a copy, though I haven't finished it. It's compellingly written, and apparently based on modern, real-world experience. If you want something a little more based in historical precedent, I suggest Robert Greene's "The Art of Seduction". It's drier, but also demonstrates applications beyond one's social life.
I would suggest both of these but with a caveat for people like us (your message reminds me of myself, and how I was brought up to treat women): They both are established on the conceit that "people want to be seduced." This is true insofar as it is short-sighted. People don't _just_ want to be seduced. People want soulmates, people want happiness. People appreciate a well-orchestrated roll in the hay, but in the end, they want more. You want more. I want more. My friend in NY wants more. That's why I worry about her. This guy in Indiana fits Strauss's description of a "Natural" (a Natural Seducer) to a T. It's unlikely that I'll be able to break his grasp on her until she has a very real and painful realization that she's just one of many in his harem, and no more special than any other, however, the geographical distance creates absence, and as we know, absence allows people to idealize each other, forget their flaws and so, hearts grow fonder.
Having been a psych student and empathic person, I'd seen too many women anticipating love and care hurt by the male drive to simply "get laid". So, I kept myself in check, and passed on a great many opportunities for temporary pleasure, so as not to levy upon women the pain of unrealized expectation that there was anything more to it than a desire for sex and friendship. There were, of course, women who only wanted sex. I was approached by a few of those as well, but refrained, as I recognized them as "broken" in some way, and I desired not to contribute to their neurosis. And, while in more desperate moments, I half-regret not taking liberties, my evaluation of those by whom I was approached remains the same, and I am happier with myself for my restraint than I would have been had I taken advantage of their need for a paternal surrogate.
Now, as for you -- you needn't become a low-life, or drop your standards, or treat women with any less respect than you do now. You needn't devalue them to the status of rats in a "Skinner Box", as portions of "The Game" tend to. And you needn't "become" a "bad boy" -- though, if your goal is to simply get laid, it probably wouldn't hurt.
Understand, in my evaluation of the world (and perhaps only in mine, so disregard what you will), there are certain universal dishonesties... One of them is that women will always say they want a guy that is "real" and "honest". This is not an encouragement to stay the way you are, though you seem to be real and honest, and a nice guy to boot. Understand that women saying that is like the aforementioned books' premises that "people want to be seduced" -- it is true to a point. Women want men who are "real" and "honest" insofar as those things match the way they like them to be.
Between the last two paragraphs is where you start to walk the tightrope. At this point, you've probably recognized the universal dishonesty of women wanting what's real and honest. You're real and honest. Where has it gotten you?
But again, you needn't remake yourself into something you're not. Your personality won't allow you to become a "bad boy", so don't. You needn't tattoo yourself or get exotic piercings, however, if you're a half-competent artist (or know someone who is), and you're willing to play around with henna dye, try putting something on your arms or hands. Tattoos are great attention getters and competently done henna tattoos are impermanent, and I'd wager, no less effective. It's something I think about now and then -- I like to draw. But maybe it's not for you. That's alright -- it's superficial anyway. Just an attention getter. You don't need it. But something that sets you apart visually wouldn't hurt.
Read "The Game", but don't become a manipulator -- because you don't have to. Use what you learn to accentuate your already existing positive attributes. Read "The Art of Seduction", and find what kind of "Seductive Character" (or amalgam thereof) you are. Learn your strengths, and hone them.
Go out and meet new people. Make new female friends. It doesn't matter where. At work, waiting tables at a diner, at the supermarket, in a museum. Don't look for a "soul mate". If you do, you might fixate on one, and grow attached ("one-itis" in "The Game"), annoy and smother her because of your obsession with finding your "one". If you find a "one" too fast, and fixate, to avoid scaring her off, you'll have to feign being busy with other things and people to avoid scaring her off and to demonstrate you have social value (if you offer too much attention too fast and she's cool with it, odds are she's dependent, or you're a "rebound" guy -- not situations you want to find yourself in). Feigning is manipulation. Far better to actually cultivate a network of female friends that _is_ demanding of your time, so you genuinely are busy, distracted, without fixation, and obligated to perform no manipulation.
Flirt with everyone. And I mean everyone (of your target gender, that is). You'll be seen as an affable, friendly guy, which I imagine you are. If someone you're not interested in comes on to you, it's that much easier to demonstrate that you're not the guy for them, because you're not _really_ flirting with them -- you treat everyone this way. But if someone comes on to you that you are interested in, wonderful!
So, to recap:
1. Read. Find your strengths, and accentuate them. Be both attractive and "real" in the way that is suited to you -- don't try to be the "bad boy", unless it's part of you.
2. Meet new people. Cultivate a network of female friends. It will take time and trial and error, but you can do it. Eventually, you will be seen as in high social demand because of the demands on your time. This lets women know that others think you're valuable. It's the law of the market: as supply decreases (in this case, your time and availability), demand increases. Even if you're not finding that "soulmate" yet, you'll be busy and distracted enough that you will care somewhat less (nothing kills your chances of finding someone like desperation. Being busier and more in demand makes you less desperate and gives you more opportunities to hone your social/flirting skills.).
3. Use those skills to flirt with everyone.
In time, you'll find the right person (or, more likely, they'll find you), and you'll be able to make the best use of your flirting skills to move things along to wherever you want them to be.
Please understand, this is just my take on the issue, influenced by the sources mentioned. But I think finding someone shouldn't ultimately be a grueling and frightful task. Life is too short to face it like that. The trip should be as enjoyable as the destination. Find your strengths, improve yourself, meet new people, flirt, have fun. What better way to find a mate? Plus, having fun fills you with positivity, which is its own attractive trait. (And cut back on the video games! Anything that takes time away from socialization is holding you back from your goal!)
Now, any or all of the above may simply be me full of $#!+. I'm at very much the same crossroads you are, Primetime. But that's how I'm approaching it. Please, ladies or gentlemen, if you think I'm wrong, or full of it, tell me. I don't want to steer anyone wrong.
