God: Perfect or Kinda Not?

[BellaRisa]

Howdy,

The threads about homosexuality and such have had me thinking about a subject I often ponder.

Um, why do so many people believe that God's way is always the 'right' way? Why is He considered the end-all be-all of righteousness? We *are* talking about a being that goes around drowning folks and causing frog rain and plagues when He gets ticked, after all. If your mom threw frogs at you I doubt you'd trust her judgement about your life.

My intent is not to criticize, I've honestly been wondering about this since I was a child. God obviously makes weird decisions, at least from the human point of view. Famine, mass drought, suffering, Gigli...all kinda rough to understand as positives. So why are people so compelled to follow the plans of such a faulty planner? How do we 'know' that His way is the best way for us, and if we don't why do so many follow along anyways?

I understand respecting and appreciating God if you believe in Him. He did make ice cream and trees and such. But to worship Him and do *everything* His book says even if it sounds ridiculous and makes you miserable(or just picking what you like and ignoring the rest) always confuses me.

Anyone? Bueller?

Bella

Bella

 

[qjakal]

Quizzical...

I have a few questions for him/her/it as well Bella, but so far no one seems to be home. Q

 

[Neutron]

If There Is A God..

Hopefully he's not perfect. My image is he cheats at checkers but not all the time, mostly he cheats for the excitement of getting away with something, and not to win.

Tron

 

[AffectionateDan]

Mmmmmmmmm.... ice cream treeeeeeeeeeessssss

I understand respecting and appreciating God if you believe in Him. He did make ice cream and trees and such. But to worship Him and do *everything* His book says even if it sounds ridiculous and makes you miserable(or just picking what you like and ignoring the rest) always confuses me.

Anyone? Bueller?

Bella

Bella

Being spiritual and/or having a relationship with God (whatever you wanna call it) takes a little more (to me, anyhow) than reading some text that's not only thousands of years old, but has been translated so many times, ya gotta wonder how close to the original story it really is. The books of the Bible were written millenia ago by (basically) cavemen who had no clue how the world really worked, and has been translated so many times it's ridiculous. People always tend to add their own personal biases to whatever information they're relaying, and this is no exception. Tell a story on one side of a crowded room, and then have each person in it share it with the next person, until the last person in the room hears it, and see what changes have been made to what you originally said. NOW, do that for a couple thousand years! I have a firm belief that there is an afterlife and a higher power, but organized religeon is a crock. If and when I get to talk to God(s), I have no doubt that all these questions will be answered. But until then, my faith remains where it is. Unless someone throws a miracle at me, of course... 🙄 Party at the Red Sea, anybody?

 

[JoBelle]

I wonder how "believers" manage to believe in some things as well.

Personally, I'm an egotistical bitch who thinks that her vision of God is spot on. It works for me. It's a lot healthier for my mental state to believe what I feel and what I hope and what I experience in my life than what someone else tells me to trust. I don't care to base my life on someone else's interpretation of God's rules. I have a conscience and a heart that will do that for me. I might make mistakes, but at least they will be mine!

That being said, I genuinely that hope the god I believe in does nice things for everyone whether they like "him" or not. I trust in the spirit I feel, not in a book of stories that Joe Schmoe wrote oh so long ago.

But then again, maybe you were posing this question only to those who believe in "his book" that you mentioned. If so, my apologies for rambling in the wrong space.

Joby

 

[natural tickler]

God is perfect and infalliable. The word of God never fails, and those who question Him will sooner or later feel his wrath. Please people, be grateful for the blessings He has bestowed upon you. It can be taken away in an instant

 

[Krokus]

I just can't act like I believe in something that is so out there..I have tried to believe, I really have, but it just isn't gonna work...especially when the "teachings" totally contradict who I am and what I am about. I just don't see it ever working. Besides, according to them, I'll probably die of aids and burn in hell forever.

 

[ronlasvegas]

Why is it people do not believe anything unless they see it? I mean show me your spouse loves you,I mean show me not tell me what they do for you, but show me, Its impossible because love is not tangible you can't.But in your heart you know they do, right? Well how can we as people begin to even understand why He does what HE does? How arrogant of us to think we can begin to understand what He does We have finite minds HIs is infinite.If you ask him to open your eyes and ears to HIs words He will do so.Like He says in the Word "To the wise of the world my word are foolishness" Question --If I wanted to see who really loved me for me and I offered eternal life for the right answer how many pweople would believe in God then?I agree some Christians rain down on you by saying He is the only way their approach maybe be horrible but the message is From HIM.
Ronnie

 

[Neutron]

Why is it people do not believe anything unless they see it? I mean show me your spouse loves you,I mean show me not tell me what they do for you, but show me, Its impossible because love is not tangible you can't.But in your heart you know they do, right? Well how can we as people begin to even understand why He does what HE does? How arrogant of us to think we can begin to understand what He does We have finite minds HIs is infinite.If you ask him to open your eyes and ears to HIs words He will do so.Like He says in the Word "To the wise of the world my word are foolishness" Question --If I wanted to see who really loved me for me and I offered eternal life for the right answer how many pweople would believe in God then?I agree some Christians rain down on you by saying He is the only way their approach maybe be horrible but the message is From HIM.
Ronnie

That my friend is the best down to earth explanation of faith I've ever seen. Good job.

Tron

 

[Psycho]

Well I as a believer am offended by this. If it werent for GOD you wouldnt be here. He created you. He is so powerful that he created the whole universe and everything in it. When you can do that THEN and only then will you have the power to question him. Not all pain comes from GOD some is from saten.

Psycho

 

[Neutron]

Well I as a believer am offended by this. If it werent for GOD you wouldnt be here. He created you. He is so powerful that he created the whole universe and everything in it. When you can do that THEN and only then will you have the power to question him. Not all pain comes from GOD some is from saten.

Psycho

So in other words you're saying someone has the power to upset an All Powerful beings world? Doesn't seem to me like he's all that powerful then son.

Tron

 

[venray]

That is the Conundrum.......Kinda like if God is all knowing can he create a puzzle that he cannot solve....

Indeed this is where faith comes in and not a blind following of words on a page written by men.

Ven

 

[Admiral Trouser]

I have major issues with the Almighty, not least because, being the Author Of All Things, he therefore knew how everything was going to work out: Such are the abilities of omnipresence and omniscience. So, going on that definition of God, he would have known that Lucifer would betray him, and then betray Adam and Eve, forcing the rest of humanity into origonal sin, and this somehow justifies our punishment from Above? What kind of perverse insanity is that? How can a caring, loving God know that we were going to be deceived, set that act in motion, not act to then stop it, and then have the gall to act as our punisher when it inevitably happens? The bible has some serious issues to work out.

As for perfection: Well, here's the bitch of the issue with the Christian God: Traditional definition of God states that He is All Perfect in all aspects of all things: Lamens terms, there isn't anything he cannot do or create.

Ask yourself, then: Can God create a stone that he cannot pick up?

Perfect perfection=logical contradiction.

AT

 

[Psycho]

So in other words you're saying someone has the power to upset an All Powerful beings world? Doesn't seem to me like he's all that powerful then son.

Tron

I am not your son No I am not saying that. Saten is a fallen angle. GOD could destroy him at any time but he alows him to live and do what he does. Just like GOD could make us all worship him. However he wants you to love him so he gives you free will. Like I said. When you can do what he did then you can question him. Say lets talk about the smaller stuff that he did. He brought a man back from the dead for instence. When you die you will see the truth. Then you will wish with all your soul that you hadent said the things you did. Because you will be burning for all eternity. That is of course if you dont turn to Jesus and ask him to save you. Also what is it with this mentality that "if you turn to god you have to be perfect and miserable" that couldnt be more wrong. I have been saved but I am faaaaaaaar from perfect. If I where perfect I wouldnt need the Blood of Jesus to save me. I also am not miserable. I have LOTS of fun.

Psycho

 

[venray]

One does not make a valid point about God by screaming and name calling....such posts will be deleted in the future instead of just edited.


Ven

 

[Admiral Trouser]

lol. Psyco, did it never occur to you that God may have given us free will and the capacity to use it so that we could, in fact, question *everything*, including His existence and His direction? To imply that God is almighty says very little indeed. Almighty over what? Earth? Humans? A drop in the proverbial ocean when you consider how damned big the universe is. So, what if he's almighty over the universe? Well, I never heard that from the Old Testament, and since you appear to be taking quite a literal reading of it, it therefore cant be true, can it?

Now would be a good time to be a little less narrow-minded, m8 🙂

AT

 

[BellaRisa]

Well I as a believer am offended by this. If it werent for GOD you wouldnt be here. He created you. He is so powerful that he created the whole universe and everything in it. When you can do that THEN and only then will you have the power to question him. Not all pain comes from GOD some is from saten.

Psycho

May I ask why you're offended? Surely a faith as strong as yours bears simple query. Your post is my ponderance in a nutshell: If God created everything, that includes the horrid and nasty parts of living. Including what Satan gets blamed for, since God created Satan and lets him run around causing mayhem. I understand your not wishing He be questioned, but that being the case I don't get why people worship a being that they can't ask to explain things. Yes, God can do things we can't. My hubby can fix my car, I can't. I still question him when he's being a doofus 😉. I know it's not the same thing as making a river, but you get the idea.

Then you will wish with all your soul that you hadent said the things you did. Because you will be burning for all eternity.

So...we should worship Him and do as He says without knowing why so he doesn't hurt us forever . Respect through intimidation is a notion most good parenting books are against, but for Our Father it's hunky-dory? I find that depressing but it does answer my question, thank you 🙂

Bella

 

[Psycho]

One does not make a valid point about God by screaming and name calling....such posts will be deleted in the future instead of just edited.


Ven

I wasnt screaming when I scream I put the caps lock on LIKE THIS. I shouldnt had called him a name but he called me one and his wasnt edited out. "Doesn't seem to me like he's all that powerful then son."-Tron. See he called me son. This sentence is disrespectful not only to GOD but to me. Why is his namecalling different then mine?

ps. I made shure i knew what I was talking about this time before I opened my mouth lol.

May I ask why you're offended? Surely a faith as strong as yours bears simple query. Your post is my ponderance in a nutshell: If God created everything, that includes the horrid and nasty parts of living. Including what Satan gets blamed for, since God created Satan and lets him run around causing mayhem. I understand your not wishing He be questioned, but that being the case I don't get why people worship a being that they can't ask to explain things. Yes, God can do things we can't. My hubby can fix my car, I can't. I still question him when he's being a doofus . I know it's not the same thing as making a river, but you get the idea.

Yes you make a good point. I understand you wanting to ask him questions. I do myself. I do not mean this when I say questioning him is wrong. I guess i dont really mean questioning at all. I mean outright not acknowledging what he says as true i think. The example about your husband is good but GOD never is a "doofus". This all takes away from the main point. Let me ask you Bella. Are you saved? That is the main point. THAT is what you should do before you try to turn from your sins. Let me infasize try because no one can turn from their sins. We are all sinners and dont deserve to ever see heaven but god loves us and gives us the chance. Being saved is THE ONLY way to get into heaven.

So, what if he's almighty over the universe? Well, I never heard that from the Old Testament, and since you appear to be taking quite a literal reading of it, it therefore cant be true, can it?

Actually it does.
Genesis 1:1 In the beginning GOD created the heavens and the earth.
This shows that he created everything the heavens (universe) and earth (no explaination of what this is, is need i hope) if you creat something you control it do you not. There is your proof.

Psycho

 

[MrPartickler]

Paradoxes

People implicitly define God as an all-knowing, all-powerful, ever-existent, ever-present, loving, etc. being. We also admit that one can never understand or know His/Her/Its ways or intentions because our minds are far too limited. Why then do we spend all our lives ascribing human emotions, rationales, and characteristics to explain everything that God supposedly does?

We admit and appreciate the fact that there is a such thing as free will. If one believes in God, one also believes he created this free will. However, if God were to continually prove his own existence, would anyone really be free to choose whether or not he existed? Then would we blame him more or less for bad things that happen to us? Also, if God constantly intervened, would we ever really try very hard to accomplish difficult things for ourselves?

So where do I stand? I'm never sure. At this point in my life I think that "God" set things in motion and then stepped aside. A strict policy of non-interference. lol There's a system already in place. Some will succeed others will fail; some will live, some will die; some will believe and others will not. (I'm not really sold on the whole "wicked will be punished" stuff.) Ironically, isn't it the vanity of many religions that makes them presume to know something that is, almost by definition, <i>unknowable</i>? (Or perhaps it's just clever marketing.)

Here's where I think religions fail us. By proclaiming they have the whole, unadulterated "truth" conveniently written in texts that we can all read, they force us to place just as much faith in other humans (e.g., the authors, editors, translators, and interpreters of those texts) as we're supposed to have in God. IMHO, this is likely where the true mystery of what God actually is becomes confused with what humans want God to be.

It's pretty understandable though. When no answers are there, we tend to "find" them. Honestly, it's only because we are humans (as opposed to another species on this planet or another) that we even ask such unanswerable questions. We simply want our lives to have meaning beyond just living, mating, and dying; we don't want to feel scared or alone; and we're afraid of death and what (if anything) may lie beyond.

 

[BellaRisa]

but GOD never is a "doofus". This all takes away from the main point. Let me ask you Bella. Are you saved? That is the main point. THAT is what you should do before you try to turn from your sins. Let me infasize try because no one can turn from their sins. We are all sinners and dont deserve to ever see heaven but god loves us and gives us the chance. Being saved is THE ONLY way to get into heaven.

Ok, you've lost me a bit. When did being saved become the 'main point'? That's not what I was asking about when I started this thread. But I'm glad you brought up the concept of sin, because that *is* part of what I'm asking.

Sinning means going against God's will, to my knowledge. I think that there are times when we need to do just that, if God's will seems kinda screwy. Seriously, when was the last time we stoned a girl for not being a virgin (in this country anyway)? Or sold our child for so many shekels...I'm not judging those who follow God's word, but I'm asking why they try so hard to do it no matter how weird or even harmful it sounds. Why does being very powerful mean always being good and right? Why does creating the universe mean you can never make a bad decision?

if you creat something you control it do you not.

Um, I have two little girls who barely agree with that NOW, and once they become teens they'll have quite a bit to say on the subject 😛

Bella

 

[Psycho]

It is not commanded that we sell our children or stone adulturist. Actually when the pharasees (sorry for the spelling) where going to stone the adulturist Jesus wouldnt let them. He said let the one among you that is sinless through the first stone. What I was saying is that sinning or not sinning is not what sends you to heaven or hell. Because we ALL have sinned and fallen short of the glory of GOD. The ONLY way to get into heaven is to be saved by the Blood Sacrafice of Jesus Christ.

Psycho

 

[venray]

I shouldnt had called him a name but he called me one and his wasnt edited out. "Doesn't seem to me like he's all that powerful then son."-Tron. See he called me son.

You PRESUME to know what is disrepectful to GOD? Does it say somewhere in the Bible "thou shalt not use the term, son?"

I think not. You may not have liked the term, but a simple please dont call me son would have sufficed (been enough) rather than cussing him out.

He called you nothing derogatory and you need to learn how to interact with people before you post.

I will not babysit you any more. I will delete all Golden Rule violations (we CAN call them that can't we? or is that disrepectful as well)as outlined in the rules. Read them as I have told you to in the past and learn to control your anger or at least to confine it to PM's or emails.

Venray1

 

[BellaRisa]

It is not commanded that we sell our children or stone adulturist.

SELLING CHILDREN: Joel 3:8 God warns that, “I will sell your sons and your daughters to the Judians, and they shall in turn sell them to the Sabeans, to a people far off.”


STONING: Deuteronomy 22:13-29 "If any man takes a wife, and goes in to her, and then spurns her, and charges her with shameful conduct, and brings an evil name upon her, saying, `I took this woman, and when I came near her, I did not find in her the tokens of virginity,' then the father of the young woman and her mother shall take and bring out the tokens of her virginity to the elders of the city in the gate; and the father of the young woman shall say to the elders, `I gave my daughter to this man to wife, and he spurns her; and lo, he has made shameful charges against her, saying, "I did not find in your daughter the tokens of virginity." And yet these are the tokens of my daughter's virginity.' And they shall spread the garment before the elders of the city. Then the elders of that city shall take the man and whip him; and they shall fine him a hundred shekels of silver, and give them to the father of the young woman, because he has brought an evil name upon a virgin of Israel; and she shall be his wife; he may not put her away all his days. But if the thing is true, that the tokens of virginity were not found in the young woman, then they shall bring out the young woman to the door of her father's house, and the men of her city shall stone her to death with stones, because she has wrought folly in Israel by playing the harlot in her father's house;

http://www.free-minds.org/bible.htm

There's more but I think this will do.

Bella

 

[Psycho]

I am not angry. I didnt say it was against the Bible to use the word son. I said that it was disrespectful to me. Just like my name was to him. I fail to see the difference. The Bible has nothing to do with that claim. I would ask you to not patronize me. "its ok to call them that right"-venray Have you found another reason not to like me? My religion. I would also like you to refrian from refering to my religion in a dicussion that does not involve it. Also i would like to say that insulting someone like he did calling me son is a Golden Rule Violation as well. Like I said I fail to see the difference in what he said and what I said.

Psycho

 

[Psycho]

To Bella. Old Testiment law does not imply to us today. Because Jesus made the Blood Sacrifice we no longer have to live by the Old Testiment rituals.

Psycho