Handcuffing a 5 Year Old....Going Too Far?

[kis123]

I hate to sound like a grumpy old man but........... Back when I went to school and a child acted like that they would have gotten paddled at school Then when they got home they would have gotten paddled there That is the problem nowdays God forbid a child should get paddled for acting like a wild animal
If those cops get sued then so should the mother of this child She is at fault for the wild behavior of this child Not society or anyone else I am so glad I decided long ago to never be responsible for bringing in a child into this screwed up world

You're not sounding like a grumpy old man at all-you're sounding like the voice of reason! I disagree that the cops involved shouldn't be disciplined or even fired, but the rest I'm with you! It's about time parents do more than spawn and spew. It's time they rolled up their sleeves and actually raised their children. Stop overindulging these kids and trying befriend and buy their love. Get used to the "I hate you's"-if you don't hear them sometimes, you are not doing your job! It hurts to hear them, but you have to draw the line in the sand and stand your ground on certain issues. You have to teach your children respect so they can respect themselves and others.

This kid has been left to raise herself and she doesn't have the tools to do that. That's one of the reasons she rages-she's the adult her parents should be! A 5 year old cannot make those types of decisions and the frustrations just build.

I am a little concerned about your statements about not bringing children in the world when you sound like the very type of person who should. If you've ever questioned raising children in this world, you're more insightful than you'll probably give yourself credit for.

 

[General Zod]

Kis123
Maybe if I didn't have the type of jobs I've had since leaving Pa way back when I may have sired some children I was active military and now I drive long haul truck Not great jobs for raising children But I am flattered by your comments

 

[phfttklr]

It infuriates me to no end when people blame the police. Try walking in their shoes for a while and see how easy it is, instead of sitting in your comfy little home and passing judgement. This is the parents fault, not the teachers, not the police. The teacher should not have to deal with this type of child. It is obvious that this is not a one time incident, considering the home life and if it is, then most likely would not be the last. The police were called, they had to respond, the showed up, they had to control the child in the best way that they could without the child doing anymore harm. Was there a better way, who knows? I can assure you nobody in here can say because they were not there, they didn't have to deal with it, with that child, in their shoes, at that moment. It's a wonder the police would want to respond anymore with assholes looking to blame them for every arrest being racial or abusive. Are there cases of it, yes, but a higher percentage not. I'm a son of a police officer of over 40 years and a very well liked officer. I , myself, had plans on going on the force and to see the aggrivation they have to go through with idiots passing judgement every two seconds on them, I'm glad I didn't...sometimes. How many jackholes have to make a life or death decision at their job, in their life? How many times does your spouse have to wonder if you're going to come home that day, everyday, for maybe 30 some odd years? How many have to put other lives in front of their own, when at any given moment, any sudden move could mean making a split second decision on life or death in a lawsuit happy world? The low pay some of these teachers make is appalling considering the crap they have to deal with from parents who won't/can't control their own children.

AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

Friggin' tools!!!

 

[steph]

Who should've been put in handcuffs is the wuss parents who allowed a five year old to become such a monster. It's not the kid's fault, she's just doing what she's been allowed to up til now.

And no, I never actually gave birth but my best friend has SEVEN kids. The kids are here constantly and I consider myself as parent by proxy. Kis and gen.zod hit it on the head~too many parents are afraid of CPS and doing what's right. IMHO and experience with my friends' kids, sometimes being a parent means you're not afraid to be perceived as an "asshole" to your kids, in light of doing the right thing.

XOXO

 

[kis123]

It infuriates me to no end when people blame the police. Try walking in their shoes for a while and see how easy it is, instead of sitting in your comfy little home and passing judgement. This is the parents fault, not the teachers, not the police. The teacher should not have to deal with this type of child. It is obvious that this is not a one time incident, considering the home life and if it is, then most likely would not be the last. The police were called, they had to respond, the showed up, they had to control the child in the best way that they could without the child doing anymore harm. Was there a better way, who knows? I can assure you nobody in here can say because they were not there, they didn't have to deal with it, with that child, in their shoes, at that moment. It's a wonder the police would want to respond anymore with assholes looking to blame them for every arrest being racial or abusive. Are there cases of it, yes, but a higher percentage not. I'm a son of a police officer of over 40 years and a very well liked officer. I , myself, had plans on going on the force and to see the aggrivation they have to go through with idiots passing judgement every two seconds on them, I'm glad I didn't...sometimes. How many jackholes have to make a life or death decision at their job, in their life? How many times does your spouse have to wonder if you're going to come home that day, everyday, for maybe 30 some odd years? How many have to put other lives in front of their own, when at any given moment, any sudden move could mean making a split second decision on life or death in a lawsuit happy world? The low pay some of these teachers make is appalling considering the crap they have to deal with from parents who won't/can't control their own children.

AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

Friggin' tools!!!

You have a right to your opinion and I guess someone should support the police. I am not one of them. I've been through too much unnecessarily at their hands for me to ever be supportive to the ones in my city. The cops in my city are a whining bunch of lazy corrupt donut eaters who have been exposed as wasting my tax dollars on a consistent basis! They are a bunch of racists who pick on the racially profiled! So I don't support them at all-I consider them a necessary element in life. I'm sure there are some good police officers, I just haven't found one yet! They've put their reputation in that position, not me! If you're going to do the job, do it right and no one would have anything to complain about. They should have never been called in the first place and if they can restrain grown men, they could restrain a 5 year old without handcuffing her. Like I said before, she's the child from hell, but a building full of adults and three cops couldn't get her under control without handcuffing her and exposing her to national attention? Give me a break!!

Yes, her parents should be charged and made to go through the system. It would be about time someone actually deserved to be monitored by chilld protective services. You have no idea what hell I've been through with them dealing with my son. Someone from the outside of your universe decides you're not a perfect parent and you catch hell for months or years. Then you have kids like the child in question who the system never deals with until things have gotten way out of control. I bet if you shook the tree of history with this family, all kinds of crap would come falling out! I used to work in a children's hospital and all sorts of abuse would come there like a revolving door. Nothing would happen until the child was killed or nearly killed. How many times could someone have intervened? Plenty! These people pick and choose their cases because they don't want to do their jobs! If you can't handle the job, move over for someone else who can!

Teachers are not held by gunpoint to chose their jobs. If they can't take the heat they should consider another line of work. I would never become a teacher for that very reason. Parents don't raise their children and expect the schools to. But these are the very people who have tied the hands of educators. You can't physically control an unruly child anymore, but that child can beat you to death! I'd never be a teacher because I don't mind going to jail if one of these kids would assault me. I wouldn't take it from my own child and certainly wouldn't tolerate it from someone else's kid!

The child wasn't wielding a weapon! That's the only reason she should have been restrained by handcuffs-period! If it wasn't caught on tape, I bet it never would've been exposed to the public either. It would've been their dirty little secret.

 

[BigJim]

The only thing that surprises me, is that so many of you are shocked it happened. Like Mimi, TickleMad and Kis I am stunned that three alleged "professionals" (I use that word avisedly as they look like a frigging disgrace to the profession to my eyes) should feel the need to have to do the "ten fingers on the fender fuckface" routine to an infant, who while undoubtedly out of control, was about a sixth as strong as any one of them. I am not however, surprised that it happened and I should really echo Kis's comments about how if it had to happen anywhere, America's where it'd be. Give it another five years of Tony Blair and I can see it happening in Britain though, although the idea of it happening in Sweden, Norway, Denmark, France, Germany or anywhere else in civillised Europe is unimaginable.


phfttklr: It's certainly nice to see someone supporting the police, but there is no excuse whatsoever for professional officers behaving like this (although I certainly believe the parents should be held to account). It shows a lack of ability, a lack of control, a lack of humanity and a lack of imagination. In my opinion they are a disgrace to the Job.

Kis: Would I be a million miles off the mark if I asked you if you thought they would have been more civilised, humane and professional if the child had been white?

Zod: Props to you brother, as DVNC would say. I feel exactly the same as you do to be honest. Heh, I can barely take care of myself, let alone be something as important as a responsible parent!

 

[TKpervert]

I truly feel sorry for this little girl. She's off to a lousy start in life. Bless her, I hope she gets as many good breaks as it takes to get her back on track.

 

[kis123]

The only thing that surprises me, is that so many of you are shocked it happened. Like Mimi, TickleMad and Kis I am stunned that three alleged "professionals" (I use that word avisedly as they look like a frigging disgrace to the profession to my eyes) should feel the need to have to do the "ten fingers on the fender fuckface" routine to an infant, who while undoubtedly out of control, was about a sixth as strong as any one of them. I am not however, surprised that it happened and I should really echo Kis's comments about how if it had to happen anywhere, America's where it'd be. Give it another five years of Tony Blair and I can see it happening in Britain though, although the idea of it happening in Sweden, Norway, Denmark, France, Germany or anywhere else in civillised Europe is unimaginable.


phfttklr: It's certainly nice to see someone supporting the police, but there is no excuse whatsoever for professional officers behaving like this (although I certainly believe the parents should be held to account). It shows a lack of ability, a lack of control, a lack of humanity and a lack of imagination. In my opinion they are a disgrace to the Job.

Kis: Would I be a million miles off the mark if I asked you if you thought they would have been more civilised, humane and professional if the child had been white?

Zod: Props to you brother, as DVNC would say. I feel exactly the same as you do to be honest. Heh, I can barely take care of myself, let alone be something as important as a responsible parent!

In answer to your question, experience (personal and otherwise) proves me out. I cannot come to any other conclusion than this one. I've had ad nausem arguments regarding racism being alive and well, and the first response I usually get is denial. I'm sorry I have to point it out, but racial profiling still exists in this country and the police are the greatest perpetrators. Had it been a boy instead of a girl, they probably would've pulled guns and shot!

 

[MrMacphisto]

The only thing missing was for them to smack her bratty little ass! i would have volunteered for that! then maybe beat her mothers sorry ass for being a shitty parent.

LOL... ok... that was funny... not very insightful, but amusing nonetheless...

 

[MrMacphisto]

The police aren't allowed to handle her, they could accuse them of hurting her. The teacher should of been smart and when the cops arrived said to the officers everything is under control, you may leave. They didn't and the police did what they had to do. this shouldn't of been a big deal. Stop trying to act like they did wrong. The mother will get a cool settlement and it will be over and done with.

I have to agree that this situation just gets messier and messier when you consider all the legal bullshit that can arise from physical restraints involving touch. They used cuffs because they couldn't use hands. I remember hearing some wonderful stories from friends of mine that worked at a sanitarium. The patients could essentially attack the workers as much as they pleased, and the workers couldn't attack back - even in self-defense. Obviously, dealing with a little brat is much easier than dealing with a clinically insane adult, but I wouldn't doubt it if the media ran with this one. We're probably only seeing the side of the story the media wants us to. There is likely a bit of embellishment going on as well.

 

[MrMacphisto]

Are you serious??

You must not have any children of your own to make this kind of statement! The police "handled" her long enough to handcuff her, they can handle her long enough to calm her down until her parents got to the school to take her out of control tail home!

As a parent with a no nonsense approach to raising children, I take an interesting stance to this incident and have to say this was over the top and ABSOLUTELY UNNECESSARY! All of these adults and no one can manage this child without handcuffs? Bring her to me, I'll have her straightened out in less than 5 minutes without handcuffs!

I don't know this kid's background except she's said to be unruly. I don't know if she's special ed, or just a bad brat of a child. But if three police officers can restrain her long enough for handcuffs, they couldn't restrain her long enough to get her calmed down without them?

These are good points, but the legality of the situation is fuzzy. With people being able to sue for anything now, the cops were probably looking for whatever method would simultaneously keep the kid restrained and save their own asses liability-wise. Obviously, they must not have been thinking very straight to go for the cuffs, but you gotta remember they deal with adults most of the time, not kids. It doesn't excuse them, but breaking out the cuffs won't traumatize the kid.

I wonder if she was a little 5 year old white girl, would the outcome have been the same? Now the cops don't have a problem handcuffing anyone of color these days do they?

Please don't make this a race issue. Everytime that someone brings that up in a situation where it's totally irrelevant, it trivializes the real racism that goes on in society.

 

[MrMacphisto]

Everywhere you look in the media, the major message is that blacks can only be controlled by handcuffs and jails. The disproportionate number of blacks vs. whites in jail right now proves it!

You mentioned looking at statistics. One thing you might find of interest is that most murders in this country involve black people killing other black people. More specifically, young black males are killing other young black males. Another interesting statistic is that more white people are in jail than blacks. Granted, there is a higher percentage of the total black population in jail than of the total white population, but you can attribute most of that to the above fact about murders and the bullshit War on Drugs. Is this racism? Not really... it's more a little bit of Social Darwinism and a little classism. I won't deny the media only worsens this situation by sensationalizing the facts, but that's only because people are foolish enough to pay more attention to controversy than actual intellectual discourse.

So now, the entire country got to see another person of color being controlled by handcuffs. I guarantee you if the child was white, they would've found another way!

Maybe so... although I believe it depends more on how annoying the kid is, as opposed to his/her skin color.

I lived it with myself and my son, and until you live it yourself, you can only speculate!

Believe me... I intend to keep it that way.

This crap only happens in America! Schools in other countries have controlled classrooms and that's why they come to this country and blow us out of the water academically. Bad behavior is dealt with swiftly and the classroom remains a learning environment, not a police state. Parents are allowed to discipline their children without fear from the state. The crime rates in other countries are dramatically lower than in the US.

You know, in most East Asian school systems, they are rather liberal in their usage of canings. It definitely improves discipline there, but in places like Japan, it leads to an environment where suicide is much more prevalent.

That's why I'll be glad when my daughter graduates high school (or hell school)! My grandchildren will NEVER see the inside of a public school! I may home school them myself if I have to! They'll get more out of me than anything these schools can provide. We spend more money on education and these kids just get dumber and dumber! Why is that?

It's because we have so many kids. Nowadays, a lot of them are children of illegal immigrants, but that's another discussion....

Parents nowadays are lazy and use the schools as daycare relief for their monsters in training.

Well, at least we agree on something.... 😉

I believe the concept of individualism has gone too far to the left and this is the fallout of it. Out of control serial killers in training and schools with their hands tied unable to do anything about it.

There are important differences between individualism and negligent ignorance. Individualism implies a sense of self-reliance and independence, yet it still acknowledges personal responsibility. Negligent ignorance is doing whatever you feel like at everyone's expense. I think our schools often breed the latter.

Bring those brats to me and see if I can't get them straightened out!

Be careful what you wish for....

 

[kis123]

Mr Macphisto:

I can always count on someone to attempt to minimize my posts and this is no exception. As usual, you're entitled to your opinions and I mine. I have experience to back mine up as well as my black son (both were targeted by police unnecessarily) where you obviously only have the newspaper and a few search engines.

If that little boy was white, no matter how annoying he was, he would NOT have been handcuffed and the videotape play on national television. If you don't think you can find little white kids annoying enough candidates, you must not watch supernanny or nanny 911. That's all they show are little out of control terrorists in training-and they're all white!

Individualism too far to the left breeds selfishness and narcissism (sp)! Children need to be raised to live in society, not in their own little mental islands where all that is important revolves around them. These kids have no sense of the community around them and they don't care who they hurt if it's a means to their end.

It's about balance and this society hasn't learned how to do it yet. Everything is extreme or super sized in this country. Until people get back to basics, it'll remain the same or get worse.

Social darwinism and classism still equal racism to me! Once again and as usual we will just agree to disagree. But the breakdowns made a nice touch.

 

[Sunriseticklee]

Warning... Long and Potentially Offensive!

What the hell?!

There are sooooo many things being said on this thread spoken by people who have absolutely NOOOO idea about protocol and how things are supposed to be run by a school. Not to mention how this has turned into something racial when it is NOT.

First of all.... THIS HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH RACE!!! And I'm black! Ok, so before you jump on my ass, remember that I am a BLACK and a TEACHER!

I've seen black, white, green, purple, and orange kids being taken out of the school in handcuffs. This is not a case of let's handcuff the little bad black girl and piss everyone off. As if when they dialed 911 they said, “We have another one! Come handcuff this unruly black child!” The only reason why this is getting so much coverage in the first place was because a child decided to act a fool and happened to get video taped. All of a sudden the world realizes that the child (WHO WAS WRONG REGARDLESS OF AGE and SKIN TONE) happened to be black. And the cops.... and the teachers happened NOT to be black, and all of a sudden, everyone is a racist! And they are out to get us! And they are doing racial profiling.... and this and that. GET A GRIP!

I speak as someone who HAS been discriminated against. I speak as someone who HAS been falsely identified and accused by authorities. It doesn't just happen to black kids in schools. This problem with violence in the schools is affecting every race and every group! And if you don’t believe that… ask how many Muslims have been religiously profiled and how many Middle Eastern or Indian people have be profiled since 9-11?

Back on the Original Topic:

When a teacher has a student in class that is out of control and getting violent, this is what must occur.

#1 Immediately call for back up! Even before the classroom is cleared because you do not want to be alone in a room with a child.

Teacher: I have an emergency situation. This child is placing herself, her classmates, and me in danger. Please come immediately!

#2 After help arrives (and more witnesses), make sure all the other students are safe. Try to calm the student, call the parent immediately!

The parent must come and get the child period! If the parent is not able to reach the school quickly (broken down car, no car....) then pick up is arranged for the parent. If the parent refuses then Child Protective Services must be called. (By the way… the parent WAS called. What happened on the phone… is unclear.)

When is it ok for any school, and teacher to call the police? At ANYTIME when they feel what they are doing is not working and the child is still posing a danger.

Keep in mind that regardless of age, IT IS NOT the school's responsibility to control a violent minor. PERIOD! In fact, it is against protocol to place a hand on a child even to break up a fight (although many teachers do so). Imagine a teacher frantically trying to break up a fight and someone gets hurt further in the process... beyond what your reasoning is, that teacher is automatically liable and is in BIG trouble!

I tell my students at the beginning of the year that if they want to fight, they better be prepared to go to jail because if I feel like I am in danger and my other students are in danger, I WILL dial 911! AND if I get hit, I WILL press charges.

See... it is easy for you to say that teachers are paid to deal with this. To that... I say BULLSHIT! Nowadays you don't know what kinds of weapons or anything students carry with them. A fight is NOT just a fight anymore. In my county this year, the last couple of months, we have had a student killed on campus due to gangs. Also a coach tried to walk a child to the office and the child's brother and friends jumped him and beat the shit out of him. (His wife is a coworker of mine) 20 kids at a middle school that I was hired to work at (Thank GOD I turned the job down) go into a HUGE riot! They were all arrested! And the middle school down the street from my school has the cops there almost everyday. So don't tell me that I am supposed to handle all of this and NOT involve the police. BULLSHIT! You come and do my job. And when the principal calls all teachers to the front of the school to handle a gunfight that is in progress, you see if you either go to the front, or do what I did and get in my car and go home! I'm not paid enough to get shot... fuck that! And it is not a normal advertised part of my job description.

BOTTOM LINE!
Do I think, at the point where the kid was sitting quietly at the desk, do I think she should have been handcuffed personally? No, provided she didn't get up out of that chair until her mother arrived. I would have had one officer there and he would have remained until the mother arrived. (Actually, a female officer)

Then the principal, the mother, the officer, the child and the school/county psychologist would have talked about what happened. They would let the child know how serious the situation was. Then with just the parent, they would have told her firmly that the next time the situation occurred, the police would be called immediately and the girl would be taken to a juvenile detention facility.

A behavior plan would be laid out and followed for the rest of the year. The mother would be obligated to stay in close contact with the teachers for the rest of the year, and the child's behavior would be monitored very closely.

(By the way, there is a child at my school who has beaten up a teacher twice this year. Guess who is getting him next? ME! They are putting him in my class. And I be DAMNED if I'm going to sit there and let him tag me. He'll go straight to jail! And I won't feel bad about the handcuffs either!)

That’s my opinion on the situation. I DON’T think handcuffs at that point were necessary. However, if she had gotten violent again, then yes! Also, if the cops had physically restrained the child instead of cuffing her, they would still be in the same situation they are in now.

CUTTING THROUGH THE BS….

Cooltickler said "It's protocol to hand cuff anyone that could cause harm to herself or others. Being 5 or 80 or 30 has no bearing on protocol, and the safety of others."

Cooltickler! You are absolutely RIGHT! BUT.... you also said:
"The police aren't allowed to handle her, they could accuse them of hurting her. The teacher should of been smart and when the cops arrived said to the officers everything is under control, you may leave."

That's wrong actually. The rules for police officers on the street continue in a school as well. They ARE allowed to touch/handle kids. And it is not the teacher's job to tell the police to leave. It is up to the principal to decide. I would have told the police to have one officer stand by until the parent arrived.

Quote by nenezinho:
“Big question here: Teachers should be professional! Teachers should now their students! If a teacher has 20 kids under his/her autority it´s good policy to speak to their parents and see if they can have some kind of dangerous behaviours.”

First of all... You are LUCKY! As the parent of that child, I would have pressed charges against you for threatening my kid with a deadly weapon. Apologize my ass..... Who's crazy now!? Had you done that again and someone had really gotten hurt, who would have been fired for a cover up? THE TEACHER!

Second of all... (I'm assuming you mean teachers should know their students instead of now their students....) There are some good parents who tell the school when their children have problems... But there are MANY bad parents who lie to the schools and try to cover it up. We are NOT mind readers. Nor are general teachers trained to handle disturbed students. (Some are, but not the general teacher population.)

Teachers try to know their kids but we are not soothsayers or prophets. We can't predict when someone is going to lose it. And we should NOT be held responsible for it. I agree that love is the answer, but I can love a child after I keep my other students and myself safe.

Ticklee_heather said:
“A lot of has to do with the fact a teacher can't touch their students anymore. 10 years ago the teacher would have just picked the kid up by the arm and dragged him/her off to the principals office. Now in tha age of lawsuits and all you can't lay a hand on a kid without fear of being charged with something.”

Agreed.... We can't. If a child wants to walk out of our room, by law we cannot physically stop them. We can say, "Get back here!" We can call for back up, and then legally, we have done our job.

If they child gets kidnapped, hit by a car, breaks their leg in the process of breaking school rules and leaving the property we are NOT liable.

Quote by nenezinho
“I would put all blames here at the kindergarten for calling the police. After all they are paid to take care of the kids and if they clearly failled to the point of calling someone else to do their job....than I´d be getting my kids out of there quicky!”

BS! They did what they were trained to do... and went beyond the call of duty. If someone on the street bit and hit me, I'd slap the shit out of them. But at school I either have to run away or call for help. The teachers called for help even while getting hit and bit by the child. I don't care what you think in that reality of yours.... Teachers are NOT obligated to get their ass beat by a child regardless of age. We DO NOT deal with that and we don't have to.

If anyone failed a child of THAT age who obviously didn't know how to act, it was the parent. Even in Kindergarten, I knew better!

phfttklr:
The low pay some of these teachers make is appalling considering the crap they have to deal with from parents who won't/can't control their own children.[/I]

I want to give you a fucking medal! I'm telling you, we don't get paid enough to handle this crap! Cops or teachers! Yes there are some crooked cops and bad teachers, but there are also bad parents and YES even bad kids as well. Let’s be honest here!

Kis123:
Teachers are not held by gunpoint to chose their jobs. If they can't take the heat they should consider another line of work. I would never become a teacher for that very reason.

What the hell? So because I became a teacher I should expect to have kids try and kick my ass, pull guns on me and have parents not give a shit? And you consider that “taking the heat”?

Well consider me calling the police meaning... YOU DO THE CRIME, YOU PAY THE TIME!

I went to school for several years to work in a classroom, not a zoo! I am as strict as hell and I have NEVER had a fight in my classroom the entire time I have been teaching. Yes, I have been in other dangerous situations, and I have been called to help other teachers who need my assistance. But I would NEVER ever imply that a teacher deserves what happens to them because they chose the job they do.

Schools weren't designed that way, and a parent would be a sorry ass parent to expect that teachers should accept all that bullshit as part of their job description. You think that is normal? You think we asked for that? No it is NOT normal, and NO we do not get paid for that!

What you said could easily be turned into... “Well if you don't like being black in America, move your ass back to Africa. No one is holding a gun to your head keeping you here.”

You may not have chosen to be black… but you chose to stay in America. Who is forcing you? You chose to live in a city where you think all the cops are (your quote) “lazy corrupt donut eaters”. Hey… no one held a gun to your head and made you choose that!

If someone said all that to you, you'd be outraged. And yet, you feel like because a teacher chose a job that makes them a professional yet public servant here to educate YOUR snot nosed kids who sometimes don't want to learn and act like pieces of shit... You think that we should be satisfied and accept that as "Taking the heat"?

And the fact that DAILY we have to deal with sorry ass parents who think that we should be the counselor, the doctor, the advisor, the enforcers, the protectors, and the mommies and daddies, and I supposed we have to be GOD as well to predict and stop things before it happens.... I suppose dealing with that is taking the heat too?

Well excuse me if I decide that I'm not going to take the heat! The students in my class are either going to work to learn or get the hell out of my classroom! If parents don't like kids in handcuffs, then they need to take the time to teach their child right from wrong and quit leaving it up to me to do it!

I bet the teachers of YOUR children would be damned proud to know how you REALLY feel (felt) about them and the lack of appreciation you feel that we have to baby-sit and deal with your kids longer than YOU see them awake everyday!

Next week is National Teacher Appreciation Week. Why don't you send them a card thanking them for choosing the wrong profession? Let them know you feel they deserve everything that happens.... And selfishly continue to thank GOD that you aren't a teacher while sitting back and watching the rest of your lazy community with unruly children ruin the schools! (while blaming it on us!)

Good FOR YOU!

 

[kis123]

Sunrise,

I'm not going to quote you, but.....

I'm not trying to tell ANYONE to go back to Africa especially since I'm a black woman just like you. I don't know where you got that idea from! I have two black kids (one biracial) and I have a live-in perspective of how police treat them. The whole complexion (sorry for the pun) changes when the person is black. I can't count the number of times my son was harrassed by police even when they found out he was disabled. They still harrassed and picked at him. Would they have done it to a white autistic teenager? No! When I got into a domestic issue with a white man, the police came and arrested me when he lied about hitting me first! Do you think they would've taken the same position if I wasn't black? If you are, you're fooling yourself. I had the prosecutor tell me to drop the charges against him or he'll prosecute me. I was the one attacked! I was the victim! I was turned into the perpetrator simply because I was black and he was white!! You or no one else can take that experience from me! Race wasn't the only factor in this case, but it DEFINITELY was a factor.

BTW, I have no relatives in Africa that I know of since my ancestry in this country started with an Irishman and a Choctaw Native American.

The police in my city are lazy corrupt donut eaters that get investigated every other month. That is the truth, plain and simple. No police belong in a classroom anyway and judging by the videotape were not needed here! It takes three adult police officers to restrain a 45 pound kindergartener? Give me a break! I'm glad she was sitting down when they came in or what would they have done, shot her?

I'll say it again, the job didn't choose you-you chose the job! I'm sorry schools have gotten to the war zones they are. But while you're in that job you have to deal with what takes place in it. That means the good, the bad, and the ugly. Doctors deal with it with frivolous lawsuits even when they did everything right. Yet they still graduate thousands from medical schools around the world. I have battlefields in my profession and am prone to lawsuits and negative public exposure. That is unfortunately the way it is and until society goes back to basics and responsibly raise their children, it is an unnecessary evil in your profession as well.

I raised two respectful children even when going through a tough adolescence with one of them. They NEVER gave their teachers trouble. So I did my job as a parent and provided two children that came to school to learn. They knew there were swift consequences if teachers called me about anything other than how wonderful they were. So I'm not a parent who raised zoo animals for children. And yes I thoroughly agree that you shouldn't have to be subjected to it at all. It is still a reality in your profession and an unnecessary evil until things change or you leave it.

I stand by every word I said as you will for yourself. Sorry we don't agree, but we just don't agree.

 

[BigJim]

That was a highly articulate outburst Sunny, ta muchly for sharing. 😀

 

[MrMacphisto]

When is it ok for any school, and teacher to call the police? At ANYTIME when they feel what they are doing is not working and the child is still posing a danger.

Here's where the problem starts. Police are busy enough as it is to not have to bring a squad car down to the school. Besides, at least where I live, there's usually a cop at every school who's permanently posted there. He/she is the one that is called to help with discipline, so that the rest of the force can handle the unruly adults (or harass people with speeding tickets).

Keep in mind that regardless of age, IT IS NOT the school's responsibility to control a violent minor. PERIOD! In fact, it is against protocol to place a hand on a child even to break up a fight (although many teachers do so). Imagine a teacher frantically trying to break up a fight and someone gets hurt further in the process... beyond what your reasoning is, that teacher is automatically liable and is in BIG trouble!

While what you are saying is legally true, I think the point some of us have been trying to make is that this needs to change. I think it IS the school's responsibility to control a violent brat. At my brother's high school, for example, three kids got in a fight, and when the principal got involved to break it up, she was beaten severely by them. Granted, this woman was kind of a bitch, but she still didn't deserve this. They should have gotten the rest of the faculty to "teach the kids a very important lesson," preferably with a paddle having many strategically placed holes. Those kids wouldn't get into a fight again (and they wouldn't be able to sit for a week).

I remember when I went to this same school, a fight broke out in the cafeteria, and one of the vice principals got involved. One of the kids tried to hit him, and he grabbed the kid and bodyslammed him. Needless to say, the kid learned a valuable lesson and was expelled thereafter. That's the way it should be: the authority's word is law in school. Granted, I think much less of authorities outside of school, because adult life presents many challenges that authorities don't seem very capable of dealing with. School seems simple enough in its purpose that school authorities should have mostly free reign over the kids.

Granted, if a Columbine situation is about to go down, then the cops should be called immediately. Also, I realize that administrating an elementary school should be different from ruling other school levels. Since the kids are younger and frailer, the teacher should be able to restrain the kid, and a paddling should ensue if the kid's not bright enough to shut the hell up and sit down.

I tell my students at the beginning of the year that if they want to fight, they better be prepared to go to jail because if I feel like I am in danger and my other students are in danger, I WILL dial 911! AND if I get hit, I WILL press charges.

See... it is easy for you to say that teachers are paid to deal with this. To that... I say BULLSHIT! Nowadays you don't know what kinds of weapons or anything students carry with them. A fight is NOT just a fight anymore. In my county this year, the last couple of months, we have had a student killed on campus due to gangs. Also a coach tried to walk a child to the office and the child's brother and friends jumped him and beat the shit out of him. (His wife is a coworker of mine) 20 kids at a middle school that I was hired to work at (Thank GOD I turned the job down) go into a HUGE riot! They were all arrested! And the middle school down the street from my school has the cops there almost everyday. So don't tell me that I am supposed to handle all of this and NOT involve the police. BULLSHIT! You come and do my job. And when the principal calls all teachers to the front of the school to handle a gunfight that is in progress, you see if you either go to the front, or do what I did and get in my car and go home! I'm not paid enough to get shot... fuck that! And it is not a normal advertised part of my job description.

This problem could be easily solved by providing and training each teacher with a gun. If a student is dumb enough to pull a gun or knife on an armed teacher, then the kid deserves to be shot. If a gang or multiple armed students get involved, then you can call the cops.

Another thing that might help is getting rid of truancy laws. If a kid doesn't want to go to school, then hell, why waste money and time on him/her? I don't want my tax dollars funding the raising of some dumbass kid that's a discipline problem when that time and effort could be better used to teach the kids that actually WANT to learn. Keeping an unwilling kid in school until he/she has the option of dropping out isn't likely to change his/her attitude toward school. If anything, it may even reinforce it. The sad fact of the matter is that some people are just born losers, and no amount of education will change that.

BOTTOM LINE!
Do I think, at the point where the kid was sitting quietly at the desk, do I think she should have been handcuffed personally? No, provided she didn't get up out of that chair until her mother arrived. I would have had one officer there and he would have remained until the mother arrived. (Actually, a female officer)

Then the principal, the mother, the officer, the child and the school/county psychologist would have talked about what happened. They would let the child know how serious the situation was. Then with just the parent, they would have told her firmly that the next time the situation occurred, the police would be called immediately and the girl would be taken to a juvenile detention facility.

A behavior plan would be laid out and followed for the rest of the year. The mother would be obligated to stay in close contact with the teachers for the rest of the year, and the child's behavior would be monitored very closely.

Frankly, the kid sounds like a lost cause to me. Let the idiotic parent continue to be lousy, because it's not the state's responsibility to raise the kid. It's only the state's responsibility to keep the kid docile and teach her, if she actually tries to learn something. If the kid doesn't learn discipline from paddling, then she might as well get kicked out of the school altogether. It sounds like this particular family is pretty pathetic anyway.

(By the way, there is a child at my school who has beaten up a teacher twice this year. Guess who is getting him next? ME! They are putting him in my class. And I be DAMNED if I'm going to sit there and let him tag me. He'll go straight to jail! And I won't feel bad about the handcuffs either!)

You should be allowed to give that kid the beating of his life, because some people only learn the hard way. He'll think twice about fighting a teacher if he knows he might get his ass kicked.

That's wrong actually. The rules for police officers on the street continue in a school as well. They ARE allowed to touch/handle kids. And it is not the teacher's job to tell the police to leave. It is up to the principal to decide. I would have told the police to have one officer stand by until the parent arrived.

I didn't really know the actual letter of the law on this one, but thanks for clearing that up.

Second of all... (I'm assuming you mean teachers should know their students instead of now their students....) There are some good parents who tell the school when their children have problems... But there are MANY bad parents who lie to the schools and try to cover it up. We are NOT mind readers. Nor are general teachers trained to handle disturbed students. (Some are, but not the general teacher population.)

Teachers try to know their kids but we are not soothsayers or prophets. We can't predict when someone is going to lose it. And we should NOT be held responsible for it. I agree that love is the answer, but I can love a child after I keep my other students and myself safe.

In response to nenezinho's words, I think teachers would be more professional if we paid them better. That way, we wouldn't have to appeal to the lowest bidder in a lot of cases. As it stands, not many people want to teach in this country, because of the low pay vs. the high responsibility.

You also have to remember that nenezinho lives in Portugal, which is likely to be a lot more peaceful than America -- at least in its classrooms. I wouldn't doubt it if they almost never have to bring the cops into the school over there. I would assume he's not familiar with American law, as I'm not familiar with Portuguese law.

So because I became a teacher I should expect to have kids try and kick my ass, pull guns on me and have parents not give a shit? And you consider that “taking the heat”?

Well consider me calling the police meaning... YOU DO THE CRIME, YOU PAY THE TIME!

I went to school for several years to work in a classroom, not a zoo! I am as strict as hell and I have NEVER had a fight in my classroom the entire time I have been teaching. Yes, I have been in other dangerous situations, and I have been called to help other teachers who need my assistance. But I would NEVER ever imply that a teacher deserves what happens to them because they chose the job they do.

Schools weren't designed that way, and a parent would be a sorry ass parent to expect that teachers should accept all that bullshit as part of their job description. You think that is normal? You think we asked for that? No it is NOT normal, and NO we do not get paid for that!

What you said could easily be turned into... “Well if you don't like being black in America, move your ass back to Africa. No one is holding a gun to your head keeping you here.”

You may not have chosen to be black… but you chose to stay in America. Who is forcing you? You chose to live in a city where you think all the cops are (your quote) “lazy corrupt donut eaters”. Hey… no one held a gun to your head and made you choose that!

If someone said all that to you, you'd be outraged. And yet, you feel like because a teacher chose a job that makes them a professional yet public servant here to educate YOUR snot nosed kids who sometimes don't want to learn and act like pieces of shit... You think that we should be satisfied and accept that as "Taking the heat"?

And the fact that DAILY we have to deal with sorry ass parents who think that we should be the counselor, the doctor, the advisor, the enforcers, the protectors, and the mommies and daddies, and I supposed we have to be GOD as well to predict and stop things before it happens.... I suppose dealing with that is taking the heat too?

Well excuse me if I decide that I'm not going to take the heat! The students in my class are either going to work to learn or get the hell out of my classroom! If parents don't like kids in handcuffs, then they need to take the time to teach their child right from wrong and quit leaving it up to me to do it!

I bet the teachers of YOUR children would be damned proud to know how you REALLY feel (felt) about them and the lack of appreciation you feel that we have to baby-sit and deal with your kids longer than YOU see them awake everyday!

Next week is National Teacher Appreciation Week. Why don't you send them a card thanking them for choosing the wrong profession? Let them know you feel they deserve everything that happens.... And selfishly continue to thank GOD that you aren't a teacher while sitting back and watching the rest of your lazy community with unruly children ruin the schools! (while blaming it on us!)

Good FOR YOU!

Um... ranting aside, I agree that teachers are important, and the academic environment needs to change in this country. Whether or not we're willing to pay the amount that would require is all up to the intelligence of the people. Granted, try not to think about that, because you may end up depressed and misanthropic.

 

[MrMacphisto]

I have two black kids (one biracial) and I have a live-in perspective of how police treat them. The whole complexion (sorry for the pun) changes when the person is black. I can't count the number of times my son was harrassed by police even when they found out he was disabled. They still harrassed and picked at him. Would they have done it to a white autistic teenager?

I would have, but that's probably just me.

I'll say it again, the job didn't choose you-you chose the job! I'm sorry schools have gotten to the war zones they are. But while you're in that job you have to deal with what takes place in it. That means the good, the bad, and the ugly. Doctors deal with it with frivolous lawsuits even when they did everything right. Yet they still graduate thousands from medical schools around the world. I have battlefields in my profession and am prone to lawsuits and negative public exposure. That is unfortunately the way it is and until society goes back to basics and responsibly raise their children, it is an unnecessary evil in your profession as well.

If schools get much worse in certain areas of this country, no one will "choose the job" there. Taking this into account, I have to respect anyone who chooses to teach in an inner-city public school.

 

[Sunriseticklee]

Warning: Stating the Obvious, and Long Again

Sunrise, I'm not going to quote you, but.....
I'm not trying to tell ANYONE to go back to Africa especially since I'm a black woman just like you.

You don't read very well, do you? Who do you blame for that? Hopefully not your teachers.

I did NOT say anyone told ANYONE to go back to Africa. I said your statement could be easily turned into a statement like "If you don't like it, go back to Africa". (edit) But I can tell the analogy was wasted completely on you because you just don't get it, do you?

Well... it is impossible to discuss anything with anyone who obviously doesn't have a clue. You call it disagreeing with me.... I call it lack of comprehension and the inability to utilize critical thinking skills when reading or responding to a selected text.

Can't blame your skin color on THAT, can you?

Would they have done it to a white autistic teenager? No!

Do you think they would've taken the same position if I wasn't black? If you are, you're fooling yourself.

You or no one else can take that experience from me! Race wasn't the only factor in this case, but it DEFINITELY was a factor.

I believe I stated that this does happen, but to every race, not just black people. No one is trying to take any experiences from you... Frankly, I don't think anyone here wants to. The fact of the matter is, your experiences, and your opinions don't make every remotely similar situation all about race. You just can't generalize people like that because everyone is different regardless of skin color. Racism isn't always the case. The way you sound, I wouldn’t be surprised if you thought that white people didn’t get arrested at all.

The police in my city are lazy corrupt donut eaters that get investigated every other month. That is the truth, plain and simple.

And that's every cop in your city because you know best, right? And because you spend all of your time following every cop to see if each one is toeing the line, correct? And because of this fact, that's why you can make an intelligent stereotypical generalization on EVERY single one police officer! Wait a minute! Intelligent stereotypical statements don’t exist. :gasp:

No police belong in a classroom anyway

Of course, this is your opinion once again stated as a fact. In reality, not just in Kis123's World of Make-Believe, they actually have resource officers and security guards at schools. GASP! And guess what? They belong! They get paid to handle kids who commit crimes or even... (dare I say it!?) disrupt the classroom environment in a violent fashion.

So... yes, cops do belong in the schools when needed.

I stand by every word I said as you will for yourself. Sorry we don't agree, but we just don't agree.

As far as you being 100% positive, refusing to reason with that fact that there are other people of other races that are arrested falsely and harassed too (not just "African Americans") that's just plain ignorant.

The fact that you won't even entertain the thought that there are times police ARE needed in schools, that is equally ignorant.

You already know how I feel about your "Take the heat" statement toward teachers, or at least if you understood what I was saying, you would know how I felt. You might still be lost or just equally ignorant to that as well.

In reality, there isn't another way to put it. It is plain ignorance when a person quotes their opinion as a concrete fact. It is plain ignorance when a person uses their limited personal experiences to form what they imagine is a fact about an entire group of people.

Beyond that (the ignorance, I mean)... It is discriminating! It is stereotyping. This is what you are doing! You are doing exactly what you are accusing others of doing!

You'd think as a black person, you would get that. You generalize people and think you can sum them up just based on what YOU have experienced? Please! It's NO surprise people do the same to you. Unlike you, I don't think it's right. Unlike you, I'm not saying "That's the way it is so just deal with it!" or “If you can’t take the heat, then leave!”

The one thing I cannot stand more than a racially ignorant white person, is a racially ignorant black person. You would think based on sheer experiences that they would know better. That they would realize it is wrong because it has happened to them and it doesn't feel good. Fuck feelings... It just isn't a way to treat people, period!

You state your opinions as if they are pure facts. Ridiculous! You are not disagreeing with anyone here. You are being plain unreasonable. (Just like the idiot who said more blacks are arrested because more blacks commit crimes.) You lack the ability to reason and it is obvious that you don't want to. That's sad!

At the moment, I have nothing more to say. It's like talking to a brick wall. But if you say something that is different, or exciting, or (finally) reasonably intelligent; I may reply once again just for fun... I REALLY pity you. You use more energy pointing out the inequality in others instead of getting up off your ass and trying to help others solve the problem you keep screaming about.

While I'm busy teaching the next generation a better way, what are YOU doing to stop people from discriminating against others and making choices in life through ignorance?

Complaining? Whining? Blaming every bad thing that happens to you because you're black and you can't get a break?

Or do you spend it stereotyping others? Making racial generalizations? Spouting hate? You sound just as bad as they do when they talk about us! I bet you are REALLY proud of yourself.

Well you shouldn't be!

 

[Sunriseticklee]

While your post was as funny ass hell MrMacphisto 😛, we both know that some of the things you stated will never happen.

Here's where the problem starts. Police are busy enough as it is to not have to bring a squad car down to the school. Besides, at least where I live, there's usually a cop at every school who's permanently posted there.

That is true here, as well, in some schools. However, when pay cuts are issued, school resource officers are sometimes the first to go. Most high schools have them, some middle schools, but not very many in elementary schools. At first there wasn't a need, but now that violence is trickling down, that is quickly changing.

While what you are saying is legally true, I think the point some of us have been trying to make is that this needs to change. I think it IS the school's responsibility to control a violent brat.

They should have gotten the rest of the faculty to "teach the kids a very important lesson," preferably with a paddle having many strategically placed holes. Granted, I think much less of authorities outside of school, because adult life presents many challenges that authorities don't seem very capable of dealing with. School seems simple enough in its purpose that school authorities should have mostly free reign over the kids.

Believe me, there are times when I feel that a paddling is in order, but now-a-days, to be a teacher we actually have to sign a form promising NOT to use corporal punishment or any force. The only way you would get away with decking a child is if you could prove they were definitely going to kill you. And... they'd have to be bigger than you and seriously cause a threat. Other than that, it's hands off.

This problem could be easily solved by providing and training each teacher with a gun. If a student is dumb enough to pull a gun or knife on an armed teacher, then the kid deserves to be shot. If a gang or multiple armed students get involved, then you can call the cops.

Man... with all the violence going on, and with the real danger of terrorists or an armed student/ parent possibly entering a school; part of me wishes I could carry a gun. However, it is an automatic felony to have any firearms on school grounds.

I'm actually glad to know that the law is on our side. And... I wish the community would become active and start doing something to help change the downhill direction education is taking.

Instead almost everyone is leaving all the accountability on the teachers. It has to be a group effort (parents, students, school, community, the law... everyone). Only a lazy person would say that it's part of our job so just deal with it.

Deal with me calling the police on a child then! (Even the black ones!)

Sunny
😀

P.S.
BigJim... It's been almost a year since I've had a raving outburst on this forum. I'm glad you enjoyed it. 😛

 

[chode]

Hey, if the kid wants to throw a tantrum or whatever and the cops dont want to deal with it. Tie her up and throw her in the closet!! Joking. But i highly doubt......ya know what.....im not even going to finish my thought because its not worth it......

 

[kis123]

I initally wrote a relatively scathing post in response to Ms. Sunrise's comments. I've chosen to delete the post and say that this is not working for me at all.

Everyone has an opinion as to how things should've been handled. That's all this is-about opinions. That is all I wrote-my opinion. I didn't quote anything as fact.

Everyone has life experiences-some good, some bad, some just plain ugly. This was an ugly experience for a five year old girl. Regardless how out of control she was, she didn't deserve this (once again my opinion).

My feelings about race being A FACTOR are just that-feelings and opinions. I never quoted them as fact. Those of you who think I'm spouting hate are entitled to your opinions. I'm not the type who buries her head in the sand and pretends things don't exist just to make others feel better-never have, never will. Call me a racist, hate-monger, or whatever. It won't make the problem go away and until people are willing to deal with racism (as well as some other "isms" in this country) it will remain the elephant in the living room.

Not every cop is dirty and not every teacher bad-I never said that either! As soon as people hear something they don't like, they jump on that facet only and nothing else. I guess one can attribute that to human nature.

I've said all of this to address one major situation:

To Sunrise:

Name calling and mud slinging will not change the issue at hand. A child was handcuffed and the videotape made national news. That isn't going to go away with the ranting, is it?

I don't care if you don't ever agree with me on any matter, it can be done respectfully without name calling. Did I call you ignorant? Did I accuse you of not being able to read? No to both counts! BTW-teachers did not teach me to read, I was reading books long before I started school.

If you want to get angry with me because I said some things that pissed you off, fine and dandy. I'm a big girl (literally and figuratively) and can pretty much handle what you and anyone else around here can throw at me.

If your responses are going to be so volatile, maybe the PM function would be best to use in the future. That way we don't get so far off track in our responses that it takes away from the spirit of this thread.

As I said before, I RESPECTFULLY disagree with you (emphasis on RESPECT). Maybe we should just leave it at that.

 

[TheFactor]

Let's not forget that this is a five year old kid, how hard is it to handle a five year old kid? I handle five year old kids everytime I go to my brothers, what kind of damage can a five year old kid do to a full grown adult? Secondly I doubt this had anything to do with race, I'm sure those officers would have slapped handcuffs on a five year old reguardless of age.

 

[Sunriseticklee]

Whatever! Never Be Afraid to Be REAL!

I'm not some "scrub" from the city streets. You're not the only black woman with an education. I have one too. Your post doesn't leave me with the impression that education has anything to do with your response. It sounds pretty guttural from here.

I respectfully (something I'm not getting) disagree with you and when you can hold an intelligent conversation without the explicitives, give me a shout!

Meow! I'm being catty... I've got the point. And I cursed! Gasp... so that must mean I'm HIGHLY unintelligent. (Although not entirely hypocritical and close-minded as you have been on this thread.)

Naw... I thought about it. I'm pretty smart. Although the points I made went over your head, that doesn't make me the one who lacks intelligence. Sometimes the best writers have to dumb down their message for others to comprehend. And I don't know what I can do to make it any easier. As far as the "guttural language", (heeheheehee... I actually did laugh) take the cursing as spicy parts of speech, not as catty claws, and get over it.

You've spent so much time talking about how mean I was and about all the mud that I'm slinging that you didn't even answer the question. Done being offended?

My question was.... Instead of complaining about how horrible the problems you and your city are going through, and instead of spending time blaming teachers and cops who are the root of all evil... (I mean, obviously because someone else told you... then it must be true 🙄 ) what are YOU doing to change it?

My guess is absolutely nothing. When would you actually have TIME to make a difference? You're too busy being discriminated against. Oh and too busy stereotyping others.

What are you doing besides reading what someone is telling you to think in the newspaper, or telling you what to believe on the television?

The newspapers I read everyday and even the media news (for those of us too ignorant to read) show the cops in my city as they are-LAZY DONUT EATERS TOO COWARDLY TO DEAL WITH REAL CRIMINALS!!! If you don't live here where it's really happening everyday, you have no position to comment. But a little thing like that wouldn't stop you, would it?

Let's see.... Nope... doesn't stop me. I've lived in Los Angeles and now I live in Atlanta. Things are sooo much harder in Ohio! That definitely gives me NO right to comment on your city.... cough! PLEASE!

Sounds like one of your opinions is being stated as a fact here. I don't have to live in your city to define a generalization. You just labeled EVERY police officer where you live as the same brand. You don't know them all. You didn't give each personally a chance to prove otherwise.... That's just like saying adamantly blacks are conniving thieves, and Mexicans are stealing our jobs just because the papers and news media tell you so.

Do you understand what I am saying? :blink:

Do you understand why I am saying what you are saying is wrong? I mean... can I get any clearer? Really? I am at a loss!

Once again.... I don't think anyone here EVER said racism doesn't exist. I'm pretty sure I said it did. And for the 3rd or 4th time, I've said that it happens to ALL races. How does that minimize or take away what happened to you? It doesn't. I think this was the only thing I said that was actually close to agreement with you, and yet, you still missed it. What else is that but ignorance? To be so blinded that only YOUR truth stands and not anyone else’s? Can you see what I'm saying?

Being right doesn't make me righteous. I'm using my avenue for teaching to educate my students about past and current events. I'm hoping to see true and fair leaders immerge. I don't want them to repeat the mistakes that several generations have made before them. And you are doing what? Just telling everyone that you've been treated badly by whites? We know... WE ALL KNOW! Kis123 knows how to identify racism. Even knows how to stereotype people herself.... Now after identifying it, after telling everyone it exists, what are you doing to change that? To fix it? What?

(I wonder if I am going to get in trouble for thread hijacking. Hmmm, been awhile since I've been censored. sigh)

Sunrise

P.S.
Most newspapers are written on a 4th- 6th grade reading level, it does NOT take a high level of intelligence to read it.

No, my ranting has not changed the fact that a 5 year old girl was acting like a fool and got handcuffed. What has the ranting about your autistic racially profiled son changed? EXACTLY.

Leave it anyway YOU want it!

And I fight like a guy... so I'm never catty!

I never quoted anything as being anything but an opinion! I never quoted anything as fact. Name calling and mud slinging won't make you any more righteous! If you don't agree with me, that's fine and dandy. But don't reduce this to a cat fight. Besides, it won't change my mind anyway.

The lawsuits the school was avoiding are going to come flying anyway, aren't they? Even the clueless will get that, won't they? This will be reported in the newspapers that you claim I can't read. If your response wasn't so catty and immature, I'd actually find it laughable.

The newspapers I read everyday and even the media news (for those of us too ignorant to read) show the cops in my city as they are-LAZY DONUT EATERS TOO COWARDLY TO DEAL WITH REAL CRIMINALS!!! If you don't live here where it's really happening everyday, you have no position to comment. But a little thing like that wouldn't stop you, would it?

As far as my racial experience is concerned, it was and is very real for me and shouldn't be minimized. But, I'm so ignorant that I wouldn't even notice, right? Racism is still alive and well in this country folks. Pretend it doesn't exist all you want. Let's all bury our heads in the sand and not deal with the reality-that'll make it go away! Why don't we live in the solution and find ways to reduce or eradicate the problem instead of denial and attack on those who want the problems exposed?

I never blamed this entire thing on race, I said it was a factor, not the only factor! Sorry, I still and will always feel that way. Your rantings change nothing. Let's deal with the issues and put away the cat claws provided you can manage such!

I'm not some "scrub" from the city streets. You're not the only black woman with an education. I have one too. Your post doesn't leave me with the impression that education has anything to do with your response. It sounds pretty guttural from here.

This post is so inflammatory and ridiculous it actually doesn't even deserve a commentary. Besides, you can't change IGNORANCE with a few words and this ridiculous response really doesn't deserve validation.

I respectfully (something I'm not getting) disagree with you and when you can hold an intelligent conversation without the explicitives, give me a shout!

 

[kis123]

I deleted and changed the last post so I really don't see the point anymore.

You already found my post-sorry about that I obviously didn't move fast enough. If you look you won't find it anymore. You don't have to agree with me but if you're not going to do it in a respectful manner, there's no point of holding any dialogue with you. I don't dumb down to speak to anyone-don't do me any favors! I can handle a lot more than you'll ever know.

Once more, regardless of what has taken place to this point, I respectfully disagree with you and hope you can manage to do the same.

If you want to continue, you can always use the PM function! If not, hang around here and talk to yourself because I have nothing else to say to you. This has gotten way out of hand.............