Hit me with brutal honesty. (Relationship advice)

[Leo tickles]

I'm posting this right before work and will check it when I get back.

Disclaimer: This is a personal Leo romance thread. You know how these go. I'm not going to play God in comparison to her, you won't play God in comparison to me. We can civilly discuss points, and I live how I live, and if you feel that's wrong for any reason, say that, don't attack it. Okay? K.

She's 24. Her mom has cancer. She takes care of her mom A LOT. Like... a lot a lot. Her dad is also very sick. Both parents ask her to do chores, clean, etc etc and when she spends time away or on the phone, they make her feel bad. She was brought up in a loving and caring home and parents and family come first to her. This is very different from me, as I don't give two fucks about my family.

It is hard for me to understand why some ungrateful mother with no drivers license will make her daughter, who's running around and bending over for her, feel bad all of the time if her daughter wants to have a life outside of being stuck "baby sitting". My words, not hers. Her mother is a very loving and great mother according to the girl though. They talk and hang out and have a great time. All I hear is the bad because that's what she chooses to tell me.

Here's my problem: the girl doesn't work or go to school at the moment and she can barley find time in the day to talk to me, let alone see me. She is maxing herself out trying to see me a lot which she knows I care about, but I can see that it's killing her. I can understand and be supportive of taking care of sick parents... but not when those same parents spit on that by saying "you don't care about us because you see him"... and especially not when the girl AGREES with them to an extent. Fact is, they're both gonna die. And when she has nobody to take care of and get orders and guilt from, what's she gonna do?

She is going to go BACK to school for nursing, and will work eventually as time permits. But I feel as though her current situation is affecting her future, and perhaps more importantly, my present. I'm not just selfish and want her to myself. I want there to be a balance that I feel like I don't have to fight for between her family and myself. At this moment she's texting me how her mom made her feel bad because she spent one night out with me. I said don't let it affect us, she said she is "trying" not to and that she's tired of everything in general.

The only plausible answer to why I must sit through all of this with a grin is because I choose to because she told me it's what she needs. And while I don't have any desire to dump somebody because their mother is sick with cancer, I'm at a cross roads here.


We've known each other for almost 3 years now. She was there through all of the break ups I had in between, and I was there when her and her ex who hit her finally called it quits. Why am I having so much more trouble being there for her in the context of a relationship? It's not that I don't want her that way, but I can't lie to myself enough to justify her being so controlled by her decaying family. That was harsh.

Help me out?

 

[asutickler]

On her parents: I don't think dying people can be expected to act rationally. They're in a situation for which they don't have a precedent within the realm of their own personal experience, (you only die once) and it's worse in this instance because their (probable) greatest support mechanism (their spouse) is dying as well.

On her: I come from a loving, caring family, much like what she describes. From my point of view, the thought of one parent dying is horrible beyond imagining. Both at once? It's tough to even imagine. My mom had a long-running scare with a rare form of cancer for a few years, roughly 2005-2008. I don't normally show emotion, but I was pretty fucked up over this whole time period. It was HORRIBLE.

On you: I think you're right. Her behavior isn't healthy nor good for her. Her parents' behavior isn't good for her either. She likely wants to spend as much time as possible with her folks while they're still here, and they likely want the same. While that's understandable, and even laudable, if she builds her whole life around them for several years, then what's left for her when they're gone?

Conclusion: The situation sucks, basically. If you decide to stick with it, I'd try to help her see that she needs to take some time and look out for herself. If she runs herself into a physical or emotional breakdown while trying to look out for her folks, she won't be of much help to them anymore. In other words, in order to be able to take care of them, she also needs to take care of herself. That's the logic I'd apply.

 

[mabus]

Yes, this is a crappy situation. You probably won't get any easy answers.

(So many people who ask for advice usually HAVE easy answers, but they blow off said easy answers. Damn, this is a tough one.)

First off, you need to ask yourself if you realy love her, and then how compatible you and her are.

If you have that love spark that draws two people together and you'd climb a mountain to go rescue her, staying together is a factor in all this. If she shares ad/or indulges your tickling fetish whole heartitly, that adds a huge reason to stick with her.

If you're just staying with her - because you don't want to look like an ass for dumping her because her parents are dying, that's not a healthy relationship, it's one based on guilt. It'll end, and the longer you stay in, the more time you waste.

But if you absolutely can't wait to see her, then that's real love, and worth fighting for.

I suggest you both start to think above and around yourselves, to anyone else in her family that could help. The more pissed off she gets, the more she'll start wishing her parents would just die and remove the burden from her life. That's not good, but it happens.

Her parents have also been enabled to treat her that way. She's always there for them, and they're spoiled and/or ungrateful.

Everyone who is reading this has to know what I'm talking about - you're there for someone, sacrifice for them, and they treat you like shit, because they assume you'll aways be there for them, and because they're just an ass. But they'll go out of their way to to suck up to some distant dickhead who nevers goes visit them because....who the FUCK KNOWS! My dad always visited my grandmother, and Jesus did she not appreciate it. But the relatives who never came over, when they did, she got all excited. Every holiday, they'd cook food, and we'd get there first to help. But "WE COULDN'T EAT BEFORE EVERYONE ELSE GOT THERE!!!!" "Everyone else" was her favorites, which wasn't my dad, or my aunt who also stayed and cared for her. It was the ones who never bothered coming by. When they got there, everyone could eat. If we got there late, everyone's already stuffing their ass with food. Once my dad got so pissed off we all just left right when we walked in the door.

This extends to wives, friends, relatives, co-workers, etc. I've seen this psychology forever, but can't explain it at all.

How many people have bosses here who treat the good workers like shit, but treat the bad workers like gods? There's that total utter fuck up who drives good workers away, and I'll be damned that the boss will ABSOLUTELY not fire them. They'll watch 20 great workers leave before they'll think about even disciplining the shitty worker...and usually the shitty worker IS NOT helping him make money!

The only possible solution could be for her to turn to any other family member, and be like, "Look, my parents are your family too, dammit. Can you at least come over every now and then, Jesus."

 

[Libertine]

In a peculiar way, the sorrow I felt during the respective deaths of my own parents was ameliorated by feelings of relief after the fact because of the ghastly way they both treated me during the process. Cancer's a nasty way to go, and few people's moods are improved by the proceedings, so I know what your girlfriend's going through.

On the other hand, it's perfectly normal that you want to be with her, but it's also the wrong time for you to be having this relationship, sorry to say. It's certainly not your fault, but forces completely beyond your control are conspiring to ruin it, and waiting for her to be 'free' can only summon up the grimly amusing picture of a vulture sitting in a tree outside her house, tapping its foot and checking its wristwatch.

When a parent is old and fatally ill, and the adult children are married with their own spouses and children, the parent's demise is 'timely' in that it's occurring in a natural place on the family timeline, and husband, wife, and children can help one another cope. In your g/f's case, however the impending deaths are premature and while I can see you are trying to share her burden, it does not seem that she is comfortable with this, or her family accepting of your presence.

Difficult though it may be, I think the best thing to do is take a half-step back, assure her of your support when it's needed, and let her come to you when she needs it. As a male I'd hate to be in this situation, because in general passivity's against our nature but it's the best advice I can think of

 

[Mitchell]

Leo, I hope I can help you with this, because, while I dont have a girlfriend now, considering my mom;s situation, this could be something that I might be involved with, from your girl's perspective, in the future.

I completely understand her needing to take care of her sick parents. Being in that situation with my mom, it would royally piss me off if I met a girl who wanted me to abandon my mom totally.'

That being said, if your gf is trying to make time for you, and to balance her parents illness with your relationship with her, and then her mother is laying a guilt trip on your gf, for spending time with you at all, that is a problem. Even when taking care of sick parents, the caretaker should be allowed to have a life.

My thought: Express this to your gf. Tell her you love her, care for her, etc, and that you understand her obligation to her family. However, explain that, for this relationship to succeed, she needs to make enough relationship time for you. Try to see if one of her other family members, a friend of hers, etc, can look after her parents at certain times, which would allow you time with her.

I hope what I'm saying helps. Good Luck.

Mitch

 

[Bothersome]

In a peculiar way, the sorrow I felt during the respective deaths of my own parents was ameliorated by feelings of relief after the fact because of the ghastly way they both treated me during the process. Cancer's a nasty way to go, and few people's moods are improved by the proceedings, so I know what your girlfriend's going through.

On the other hand, it's perfectly normal that you want to be with her, but it's also the wrong time for you to be having this relationship, sorry to say. It's certainly not your fault, but forces completely beyond your control are conspiring to ruin it, and waiting for her to be 'free' can only summon up the grimly amusing picture of a vulture sitting in a tree outside her house, tapping its foot and checking its wristwatch.

When a parent is old and fatally ill, and the adult children are married with their own spouses and children, the parent's demise is 'timely' in that it's occurring in a natural place on the family timeline, and husband, wife, and children can help one another cope. In your g/f's case, however the impending deaths are premature and while I can see you are trying to share her burden, it does not seem that she is comfortable with this, or her family accepting of your presence.

Difficult though it may be, I think the best thing to do is take a half-step back, assure her of your support when it's needed, and let her come to you when she needs it. As a male I'd hate to be in this situation, because in general passivity's against our nature but it's the best advice I can think of

In my opinion, this is possibly the best response you're going to get. Well said.

 

[Leo tickles]

Everybody that has replied is right to an extent.

School is also starting for her soon. If she has so much trouble now, how bad is it going to be when school starts? According to her the program is hard and takes a lot of her time. Family+school= no me time.

My own conclusion to this is that if she wants this as bad as she says she does, it'll work out one way or another to the benefit of all parties involved. And at this point I think she does, but I also know she can be angry and uncaring at times to cover up whatever she really feels. So if that doesn't come out, things will go as well as can be expected given the circumstances.

Otherwise, I'm in it with her until I feel slighted or intentionally fucked over due to guilt trips from her family or bullshit that has nothing to do with me. (Beyond her not seeing me to take care of her sick mom, but within reason of that, not 24/7.)

 

[Skipadeedoodah]

While her behavior might not be best for you, or even for her, it seems to be the only way she knows how to handle what's going on. While it's easy for you to say, "They're dying soon, and she's going to need to move on and create a future for herself," that is probably the last thing she even wants to think about at this point. Right now she probably just wants to do everything she can to keep her parents as happy as possible, take care of them the best she can and spend as much time as possible with them while she still has them.

My family is my complete and 100% first priority always. When one of them needs me everything else goes on the back burner. Having to face losing one parent would be devastating. Losing both of them at the same time would be absolutely intolerable, and I'd probably end up in a rubber room. If she is anything like me right now she just needs you to be understanding and patient and basically wait around for her until she has time for you or needs you for support. You're either willing to do that or you're not. You should decide and let her know.

To be honest, I don't think it's very sensitive or considerate of you to be demanding of her time. I think it's understandable that you want to spend time with her, and perhaps she wants to spend time with you, but she is clearly choosing her parents over you at this time. Whether it's because of guilt or not isn't really the issue since no one is going to be able to stop her parents from guilting her if that's what they're doing, and the likelihood that she's going to start to feel and react differently is highly unlikely. But the fact is she doesn't have that time to give you right now, and she's dealing with enough without having to worry about pissing you off, too.

Is there a chance that she can spend time at home AND with you simultaneously? Can you guys go hang out over there so that she is available if her parents need her, but you are getting in some quality time?

At any rate, good luck.

 

[c7_assassin]

Leo, can it be? You're the good guy all of a sudden. How the fuck did this happen? 😉

Basically, I'd say there's no easy or obvious answer, and nothing that will make you happy in the end. I think you're probably going to lose the girl, and here's how:

...She often times brought it up, got involved, and generally pushed to try to get me to take more free time for myself and to spend more time with her.

After my father passed away I realized something that I didn't really think of before- I hated her for it. I really did. I know it was irrational, but I truly did despise her for every moment I could have spent with my father before he passed that she borderline bullied me into spending with her.

If you demand she make time for you now, when it seems that the most important thing to her is being with and caring for her parents (despite the fact that this makes her their doormat), she'll either refuse (and it's over), or else even worse, comply, and then resent you for it. Over. And though it might seem like a safe way out to say, "Let's take a break for now," then you'll always be the guy who wasn't there for her when she needed you most. Over.

It's not about reality, it's about the emotional narrative she'll tell herself.

Basically there is nothing you can get out of this situation, unless you're willing to throw in your lot and say that she's the One, and damn the consequences. Then you've got a relationship to be proud of. But if this isn't that, then you're fucked. It's damage control at this point.

Also, she's probably fucked too, whatever happens. If she thinks she'll be able to function in school while being at the beck and call of her dying parents, she's setting herself up for colossal failure. But you can't be the one to tell her that either, you know, for reasons stated above.

Sorry for what's about to happen, man. It's truly not your fault.

 

[Leo tickles]

Dunno if I should be happy that I'm in a pickle because of something other than myself or pissed about it.

Sorry, gotta have a sense of humor in this or I will do something stupid.

 

[Leo tickles]

Leo, can it be? You're the good guy all of a sudden. How the fuck did this happen? 😉

I was lied to, manipulated, and abandoned by a liar with the mentality of a 16 year old. After finding closure within myself as she would not provide any, I made it a personal goal to never be responsible for making somebody feel like I had felt after she did that. It is my understanding that she will tap into her potential one day and be amazing for somebody. Her choice was not to be that with me and there was nothing I could do about that.

As for my current girl friend, I am giving her the most effort that I can while balancing my job which has decided that me+full time= good idea.

 

[Jagermeistered]

Just remember...

Relationships, come-and-go, but friendships lasts for a long ass-fucking time! Just maintain that foundation, and fuck the sentimentalism in between. 🙂

Be a best-friend first, and boyfriend later; that is - if you put out. 😉

 

[bftk2005]

Her parents are wrong and selfish. They should want her to be happy and have a boyfriend. Your girlfriend does not see that her parents are wrong and that is the problem. If she understood that they are the ones wrong then she would not feel guilty. Try to be patient and explain to her that after she has helped them for "awhile" each day then she has done her part. If you cannot teach her that, then this problem will continue.

 

[phant0m]

I have only read your first post so I don't know if I'm in agreement or disagreement with anyone else on here. Great parents do not expect their children to take care of them day in and day out while they slowly die. If they really cared, they would have set aside a fund so they could live in a nursing home or hire hospice depending on the situation. If you want the best for your child you do not stifle them during their most ambitious years for some unforeseen amount of time.

As far as what you should do. I wouldn't pressure her to spend more time with you, as that could cause some feelings of regret and blame when her mother does die. If it were me, I'd tell her that we need to stop seeing each other for the time being. If her parents are already being overly demanding, then going back to nursing school will be challenging enough without the stress of also neglecting her boyfriend. Tell her you'd be happy to be there for her as a friend (and more if/when things settle down) but both of you deserve better than a strained, guilt-ridden relationship. Of course I'm not you so this whole last paragraph was typed out for nothing, but oh well.

 

[Leo tickles]

And the plot thickens. She's about to be 25. She thinks that's old. I'm 22 by the way. Anyhow, she wants to get married within 3 years... which I guess is fine, but we argue a lot so it's not so fine. I told her I'm not going to rush into a forced marriage with her and she got visibly upset.

Also, her time constraints come from her a lot. Meaning that, if the idea is for her to leave and go out to come see me and somebody calls her, she'll sit there and talk to them for hours at a time and leave me wondering what exactly is going on. That goes for everybody else, too though. If she's with me and has to be home at 9 for example, she won't get out of here until midnight, sometimes 1 or 2 because we're having fun.

She explains it as being considerate of people and not blowing them off when they speak to her. My definition of it is being irresponsible with the time she does have. When you have to go, you go. That's how she's going to play it with school, right? So why can't she do that with friends, phones, and me? If she decides to go to the store at 2 and stays with her mom until 8, of course she's not going to see me until 10PM that day because somebody will call her or talk to her in the store. 10 PM at best.

It's not so much me trying to get her here sooner as it is me trying to get a consistent plan with her that won't turn into 5 hours later. Shit happens sometimes, but she's NEVER on time. And while it's great that she stays here for hours at a time, it would be even nicer if she could figure out how long everything takes and then ration her time out to do it that way instead of always saying she has no time. Like... stop talking on the phone for 5 hours and get up and go? Only a suggestion.

But again, I have to be flexible with all of this because....she's going through a hard... time... yes. *sigh*

Mix that with constant "I have no time for me" and I can't just shut up about it. Set a schedule and follow it. Also, every weekend, she goes out and hangs out somewhere and has a few drinks. Before me it would be a LOT of drinks, and driving. Now, it's a little bit less drinks.

What the fuck am I doing? I'm reading my own words and it's like "well, if this was you giving the advice, what would you tell this asshole?"..... I think everybody knows exactly what I'd say.

At the time, I need to look at why this is happening instead of just calling her irresponsible. And I understand that sometimes when she's getting ready to come see me her parents throw a bunch of errands at her. Or when she's getting ready to leave a bar friends start talking to her and we end up staying. She prides herself on freedom and independence. How does she have that from anybody if all she does is give her family an extra 5 hours there, her friends and extra 4, and then 2 more for me?

Her words are that she's a grown up and she can do what she wants. According to her, no, no she can't. She's always going along with whoever is pulling her in whatever direction based off of who is more important at that moment. So, what kind of understanding do I need to be for all of this to make sense that I'm not being now? Or am I onto something here?

 

[Jagermeistered]

If 25 is old,

Then poor Mils, Carl, Ray, and General Zod are fucked... 😛

 

[Leo tickles]

I work soon but I'll update this at a later time. We talked about it all and we're not pissed off at each other. One small step for Leo, one huge leap for anybody that has contact with him today.


😀

 

[goddess_nemesis]

Maybe she could look into finding a caregiver that can care for her parents and give her some time to herself. Especially if she's going to be starting up school soon. That much stress on a person is not healthy and can make one ill too.

 

[Jagermeistered]

Screw, the caregiver!

When does American Egalatarians finally realize they are pussies?

Leo,

When will you realize that you are a pussy? Will you have the balls of a survivor to do the right thing for the species?

The survival of the species rely on reproduction, and not sentimentalism! Will you live the rest of your life seeing the world, as you being the antagonist against woman; your a protagonist?

If so, shred-off your testicles with dignity... And, be a 21st century, Shakespearean.

Where will that get you? Just ask, Romeo and Juliet...

Wait a minute, they both died! And, no: Happiness! 🙁

 

[phant0m]

Her words are that she's a grown up and she can do what she wants.

It's so strange that if someone feels the need to tell you something positive about themselves it probably isn't true. "I'm very mature. I don't like drama. I'm just looking for someone nice." The thing is, while they're trying to convince you they're also trying to convince themselves.