Is the word Fagot not offensive anymore?

[sasaxrah]

Considering the trials and struggle for acceptance as well as the violence received by the gay community (and this would apply to any group that endured the same), do you think these groups could be the "bigger man" in such cases? What I mean is, why can they not just say "Fuck this. You will not degrade me and make light of me with your words because I will not let your words bother me"?

Agreed with Bella in response to this. This feels like blaming the victim. It's not the ignorant person's fault for saying the word. It's a gay person's fault for hearing it and letting it register with them. Totally unfair and unrealistic.

I'm a little tired of minorities being asked to change while the culture at large could continue saying hurtful things. It's really not asking that much. Find another word to say "that person/thing is stupid/lame/frustrating/overly effeminate."

 

[Coup de Grace]

This. 😀

"Quit being a ****** and suck that dick!"

Priceless! 😀

 

[Mister Scruff]

I'd guess that the people who are telling to that have decided that if the term doesn't offend them, it shouldn't offend anyone. It's a common delusion.

Almost as common as the one where people think nobody should ever say a word that offends them.



It's a fucking word, grow a brain.

 

[kis123]

But therein lies the problem. The person using the word obviously doesn't care about the hurtful aspect of a word and will use it liberally. That's why I suggested that the one on the receiving end be the one to take the high road in such situations.

The one on the receiving end should not have to be subjected to the insulting rant and rage of an idiot. Said idiot may not care about the word but may very much care about the consequences of saying it (up to and including getting his/her arse beat). These types are no more than playground bullies to me; and I was taught at a very young age how to deal with them. Some things you simply can't walk away from because it fuels their fire and will just find ways to up the ante. Nip that kind of nonsense in the bud then everyone knows where you stand on the issue.

Certain words just shouldn't be used IMO; they depict such horrific times in history. If you want a word to lose it's power, simply don't use it. I don't use the word "nigger"; it's offensive to me regardless who says it. I'm constantly amazed how women can refer to themselves or other women as "bitches." Now I had to learn how to bite my tongue over that one because obviously some (if not many) women don't mind it. Just do me a favor and not refer to me as such; that name belongs to an animal with a fur coat, four legs, and a tail. None of that resembles me at all.

Sometimes it's about generation gaps as well; I remember a thread I was browsing earlier this year. The gentleman in question is probably young enough to be my son; he used the word "pimp" and I went completely off. What I've come to understand is that among our younger generations, words have different emotional meanings to them. Living in the 60s, a pimp was a bottom feeding monster that abused and denegrated women in the name of a cheap profit. I guess nowadays the word "pimp" is cool and he either had no idea of it's original meaning or felt the word didn't mean the same to him. That day we were both right and wrong I guess.

 

[Fangz]

I think the word ****** has evolved from meaning a homosexual to someone who lacks courage. Sure it still is being used to mean homosexuals by some folks but more and more I hear someone call someone else a "fag" they mean it as a word symbolizing weakness. Didn't the word originally mean a bundle of sticks or a cigarette or something?

 

[solescratcher99]

If it doesn't really mean anything, then there should be no reason for anyone to say it to begin with. A lot of people simply rationalize their use of certain words so they can come across as justified for their insults without appearing judgmental and bigoted.

It shouldn't be 'illegal' though. After all, we have freedom of speech. Also, if you run into someone speaking this way, its best not to even waste a breath in anger at someone so stupid (for those in the States). Law aside though, it still needs to be made clear why people choose to use certain derogatory words and explain why freedom of speech isn't a justification for careless speech.

I'd guess that the people who are telling to that have decided that if the term doesn't offend them, it shouldn't offend anyone. It's a common delusion.

Yes, they say this as though this means they weren't saying something derogatory or negative. Possibly this is an attempt to escape being reprimanded, socially chastised or to not come off as being judgmental. However, the fact is its not up to the individual themselves to decide whether or not a word has a positive or negative social connotation. Social life is what gives words either a flattering appeal or a defamatory nature. The individual may genuinely not see the word as being derogatory but the fact is it's not up to them to make such estimations. Also, by using such a word they're reinforcing the negative construct which has been built around that term and encouraging an intolerant social environment.

Of course, this doesn't mean the word can't be used in satirical or sarcastic fashion since these are ways of undermining the social structure of the word itself and ridding it of its prejudicial nature.

 

[chicago]

I think the word ****** has evolved from meaning a homosexual to someone who lacks courage. Sure it still is being used to mean homosexuals by some folks but more and more I hear someone call someone else a "fag" they mean it as a word symbolizing weakness. Didn't the word originally mean a bundle of sticks or a cigarette or something?

People use the term "fag" in the way you stated, yes, but it is still putting down homosexuals because there is the stereotype of homosexual men being less "manly" than straight men, and thus, possibly, less brave or strong or courageous.

These types of people will also refer to other men lacking "courage" in a situation as "pussy" or "woman" which I tend to find offensive as well.

 

[kis123]

These types of people will also refer to other men lacking "courage" in a situation as "pussy" or "woman" which I tend to find offensive as well.

Don't even get me started with this one.......

 

[chuckle]

Do you mean ******?

I won't use it around people that I care about if it offends them.

Other then that, I'll use it playfully with friends that don't get offended by it.

I don't find it offensive. It's a catch 22, basically. There's some folks who ARE gay don't even get offended by it, and there are some who do.

Meh.

True.

I totally agree on that.

 

[meangry]

Don't even get me started with this one.......

What?

People need to realize that words can change in meaning to have multiple associations. ****** and pussy can mean any number of cowardly things, or any number of associations with stupidity.

 

[april]

I find this word to be highly offensive and I believe when people begin to go "numb" over such words, it makes it just that much harder for gays and lesbians to be accepted in an already judgemental world.

 

[meangry]

No it doesn't. That's horseshit reasoning because every single person on this planet has a derogatory term that can be used to codify them. Acceptance and the like isn't handed out on a silver platter, it has to be earned. And couching behind a piece of terminology as being a measure of societal acceptance is a flagrant error.

 

[MrMacphisto]

No it doesn't. That's horseshit reasoning because every single person on this planet has a derogatory term that can be used to codify them. Acceptance and the like isn't handed out on a silver platter, it has to be earned. And couching behind a piece of terminology as being a measure of societal acceptance is a flagrant error.

Pretty much.

As long as people let ******, nigger, or whatever other words manipulate their emotions, they will simply be that... manipulated.

It's not a delusion to assume that if I'm not personally offended by something that others shouldn't because not being offended itself is more evolved than those who are offended.

Essentially, the human ideal is to not be able to be offended, at least with something as petty as a word.

Life presents much greater reasons to be offended, so we should save our emotions for things less trivial.

 

[kis123]

What?

People need to realize that words can change in meaning to have multiple associations. ****** and pussy can mean any number of cowardly things, or any number of associations with stupidity.

I don't like the use of the terms on any level from anyone, but I don't control what comes out of someone else's mouth no matter how ignorant and insensitive it is. I personally don't use said words because I see no intelligent use for them.

Clarified??

 

[kis123]

Pretty much.

As long as people let ******, nigger, or whatever other words manipulate their emotions, they will simply be that... manipulated.

It's not a delusion to assume that if I'm not personally offended by something that others shouldn't because not being offended itself is more evolved than those who are offended.

Essentially, the human ideal is to not be able to be offended, at least with something as petty as a word.

Maybe in a perfect world, you'd be right.

But we live in an imperfect world filled with imperfect people and simply put, crap happens! It's best not to use the words at all; they have a history and no amount of social acceptance is ever going to make them good or unoffensive to me.

Why even bother taking such a risk? People are more volitile and violent now than ever; you never know what will set them off and personally I'd prefer not finding out.

 

[MrMacphisto]

Maybe in a perfect world, you'd be right.

But we live in an imperfect world filled with imperfect people and simply put, crap happens! It's best not to use the words at all; they have a history and no amount of social acceptance is ever going to make them good or unoffensive to me.

Why even bother taking such a risk? People are more volitile and violent now than ever; you never know what will set them off and personally I'd prefer not finding out.

I don't go out of my way to offend people, and obviously, I'm very diplomatic at my job.

Outside of work, however, I'm reasonably diplomatic, but sometimes, I don't hold back when I see someone doing something illogical.

For example, if someone makes a big deal out of the word ****** given certain situations, I might use ****** in conversation to make a point.

Every action is a weighing of risk, but I don't limit my options.

 

[BellaRisa]

I don't go out of my way to offend people, and obviously, I'm very diplomatic at my job.

Outside of work, however, I'm reasonably diplomatic, but sometimes, I don't hold back when I see someone doing something illogical.

For example, if someone makes a big deal out of the word ****** given certain situations, I might use ****** in conversation to make a point.

Every action is a weighing of risk, but I don't limit my options.

Let me get this straight. You don't go out of your way to offend people. Except for certain situations. Then you'd go out of your way to offend people. To make a point. Which is more important than the feelings and emotions of others.

So we should have evolved past words hurting, but we haven't evolved past purposely and knowingly hurting others with words just to 'prove' something. Alrighty then

It's not about the words themselves. It's about the history, the pain, and the memories of fear and terror and perceived inferiority those words can dredge up. It's about the fact that purposely using those words knowing that they *can* hurt someone makes one an insensitive bully no matter what spin they want to put on it. My grandmother is 88 yrs old, and she left the deep south in the 1930's because of how people of color were being treated; she saw friends murdered and families destroyed. When she was just 11 yrs old her father was shot and killed by white men who came to her door calling for the 'nigger' to come out. Sit with her and ask her about the word 'nigger' and then talk to me about our evolution. If you really want to feel evolved and enlightened, show some empathy and compassion for history and suffering that weren't yours.

 

[Mephistopheles]

Let me get this straight. You don't go out of your way to offend people. Except for certain situations. Then you'd go out of your way to offend people. To make a point. Which is more important than the feelings and emotions of others.

So we should have evolved past words hurting, but we haven't evolved past purposely and knowingly hurting others with words just to 'prove' something. Alrighty then

It's not about the words themselves. It's about the history, the pain, and the memories of fear and terror and perceived inferiority those words can dredge up. It's about the fact that purposely using those words knowing that they *can* hurt someone makes one an insensitive bully no matter what spin they want to put on it. My grandmother is 88 yrs old, and she left the deep south in the 1930's because of how people of color were being treated; she saw friends murdered and families destroyed. When she was just 11 yrs old her father was shot and killed by white men who came to her door calling for the 'nigger' to come out. Sit with her and ask her about the word 'nigger' and then talk to me about our evolution. If you really want to feel evolved and enlightened, show some empathy and compassion for history and suffering that weren't yours.

The word nigger is something different altogether in my opinion. And I'm not touching that subject because of what you just described. (and because I'm white and European and what you just described never appeared in my historybooks, which is a sad thing)

However, pushing people's boundaries on sensitive subjects is important. A role well played by stand up comedians, by ridiculing sensitive subjects things become normal and therefor open for discussion. People start to think for themselves, form an opinion they actually thought about themselves and society as a whole improves.

Thing is I am no comedian. But I'm also not for just senslessly pushing people's buttons to make them angry. It's pushing their buttons and explaining them why they have every reason not to get angry; shrugging things off is pretty much the only way to keep your head cool in today's society and without a cool head you ain't getting nowhere.

 

[BellaRisa]

The word nigger is something different altogether in my opinion. And I'm not touching that subject because of what you just described. (and because I'm white and European and what you just described never appeared in my historybooks, which is a sad thing)

However, pushing people's boundaries on sensitive subjects is important. A role well played by stand up comedians, by ridiculing sensitive subjects things become normal and therefor open for discussion. People start to think for themselves, form an opinion they actually thought about themselves and society as a whole improves.

Thing is I am no comedian. But I'm also not for just senslessly pushing people's buttons to make them angry. It's pushing their buttons and explaining them why they have every reason not to get angry; shrugging things off is pretty much the only way to keep your head cool in today's society and without a cool head you ain't getting nowhere.

Well said I agree with you, especially about comedians; we need them to push and to turn things on their ear so that we can see them from different angles, with humor to calm otherwise explosive subjects. That's always been the role of the 'fool', and it's an important one that I applaud. I'm just saying that there's a serious difference between Louis CK dissecting the word ******, making us think and showing us the lighter side, versus someone on the street or in a bar using that word purely for harm and to make himself feel superior, then hiding behind the other person's lack of self-control (what) when the situation blows up.

 

[ViperGTS]

Well, that was 77 years ago. In the interest of playing Devil's Advocate, I must bring up the point that you cannot compare, apples to apples, the attitudes of people from that era to the people of this era.

However, at the same time, there are still people who think that way, that those whom they refer to as "faggots" and "niggers" are less than human.

The way I see it, until people like that stop thinking someone is less of a person because they are black, latino, gay, or whatever, the people who get offended by those words have every right to feel upset.

 

[BellaRisa]

Well, that was 77 years ago. In the interest of playing Devil's Advocate, I must bring up the point that you cannot compare, apples to apples, the attitudes of people from that era to the people of this era.

However, at the same time, there are still people who think that way, that those whom they refer to as "faggots" and "niggers" are less than human.

The way I see it, until people like that stop thinking someone is less of a person because they are black, latino, gay, or whatever, the people who get offended by those words have every right to feel upset.

Viper, in 1994 while living in Vermont I had a 12 yr old boy I'd never seen before throw a paper bag of dog excrement on me and call me a nigger, then run away laughing with his friends. Please don't tell me '77 yrs ago'. You just don't know, nor do I expect you to, but devil's advocate is just...no. Now having said that, thank you very much for the rest of your post, well said and much appreciated

 

[Deleted member 66627]

Viper, in 1994 while living in Vermont I had a 12 yr old boy I'd never seen before throw a paper bag of dog excrement on me and call me a nigger, then run away laughing with his friends. Please don't tell me '77 yrs ago'. You just don't know, nor do I expect you to, but devil's advocate is just...no. Now having said that, thank you very much for the rest of your post, well said and much appreciated

Jesus. -- I'm sorry that happened to you, Bella. What a fucking asshole. 😡

 

[Mephistopheles]

Viper, in 1994 while living in Vermont I had a 12 yr old boy I'd never seen before throw a paper bag of dog excrement on me and call me a nigger, then run away laughing with his friends. Please don't tell me '77 yrs ago'. You just don't know, nor do I expect you to, but devil's advocate is just...no. Now having said that, thank you very much for the rest of your post, well said and much appreciated

That's nasty. But that just makes the boy stupid white trash and you, well, just you.

If somebody uses words like ****** or nigger in a derogatory fashion it just says something about the person itself, not the word's intended targets.

 

[ViperGTS]

That sucks, Bella, and I think the parents of that child should never have been allowed to procreate, but I believe my point still stands.

Are all the people in the world accepting of all other races and cultures? No.
Is there still an element of the human race that is ignorant and assinine? Yes.

However -

Has the amount of people who display this flagrant idiocy throughout the world declined in the past 70+ years? Yes, by FAR.
Are the topics of racism and discrimination nearly as much of a problem today as they were in that timeframe? Not even close.

The world of then and the world of now are two very different places. Just because you still periodically see events that depict racism and discrimination does not mean that society is exactly the same way it was and has not evolved in any way. Society has evolved and there is much less racism in the world, but no one will be happy (myself included) until it is eliminated entirely.

What I find amusing is the definition of the word 'nigger' - strictly speaking, it refers to an "ignorant person." Since a white person calling a black person a 'nigger' shows severe ignorance on the white persons' part, since they most likely do not know how intelligent the black person is, and therefore are proving themselves to, in fact, be the 'nigger.'

 

[Oddjob0226]

I love it. I use the F word, the N word, the Q word, the B word, the capital-'O'-with-the-slash-through-it word.... life's too short to deny oneself the rush of joy that a release of venom now and then can bring.