#notips movement!

[C.A.B.]

 

[knicks255]

Well, I for one have been inspired. I too shall soon become a true glute, delt, and quad pumped bro, and claim my rightful dominion over the service industry with my glorious squats. I've prepared a bit of an instructional video for you guys on how to become true #notippers, so get ready to pump some serious iron.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9hcElGydzb8

 

[TheTickleMonster]

I'll pass on the movement. Everyone needs to work, and if this is the type of job these people can get because of our really bad unemployment rate, or because those jobs work around their school hours or whatever, I'm not going to screw them. They don't make minimum wage because of some stupid law that says employers of people who work for tips can pay less and it's a set amount. I am not sure how much. It's like a minimum wage for waiters/waitresses. And that's dumb. They actually think they make as much as 8 dollars an hour when you include tips to that? That's ridiculous. And a friend told me once (or a friend of a friend, can't remember) she is required to take a percentage of the check, and give that amount to the bus boy and the cook and if the person didn't tip enough then that money comes out of her wallet. Which I understand why they need to be tipped but I think they should actually split the tip no matter how big it is. She shouldn't have to figure out how much of a percentage of the tip would be and give that much of the tip to the bus boy and cook. It should be they all get like a portion of the tip, like maybe take whatever was tipped and take 20% of that and give the bus boy and cook that each, and the waitress keep the rest.

But in any case, this is so stupid. Stop being so dumb. Those steroids must have destroyed some brain cells.

 

[porcelaindoll2]

Brilliant! I lol'ed at this.

 

[coldneck]

Buzzfeed Article

UPDATE:

The wimps at Buzzfeed posted this article about how we are "sweeping across Facebook" now with over 7,000 likes and 110,000 views we are becoming the FORCE we knew we would be.

http://www.buzzfeed.com/katienotopo...aggregation&fb_aggregation_id=288381481237582

We have hired a heavyweight lawyer and are suing for defamation.

Yes we make jokes (i.e. What came first, the server or the single mother?) but our message is clear: low-class uneducated servers do not deserve extra money for handing us food/drinks. Period.

Stay tuned as we are making MASS GAINS in the Gym and IRL.

 

[coldneck]

Yeah, I'll get right on that, Milagros aka Mr. Gazillion posts.

And people assume I'm *dumb* because I like to work out and take care of myself.

Here is what would happen: We would order, eat clams (I usually abuse clams, but I can make exceptions) and leave no tip at the clam joint .

If the waitress is hot, I will definitely give her a tip, and then some, when she gets off. Pun intended, Wha whaaaaa.

 

[coldneck]

Coldneck,

What is it that you do for a living that makes you such an authority on the subject? Are you so fucking special that you think anyone who works in the service industry is beneath you? Do you really think people choose to work in restaurants, coffee shops, bars, etc because they are too lazy and unskilled to find other work? Let me go ahead and save you the trouble of thinking, since that's probably too strenuous an activity for you, and say the answer is a resounding NO.

I manage a bakery and a coffee shop and supervise a diverse group of people; A middle aged woman, who was laid off from a well paying job during the recession who is saving up money to start her own consulting firm. A single mother of three who works two jobs to feed her children and save money for their education. A guy who is an aspiring artist. Several college and graduate students in varying fields. Bakers, who are there because they love to bake and are fucking good at it. None of them are lazy, skilless or worthless as you stated. Guess what? All of them make tips. Not because they are pitiful and desperate, but because they work hard to provide a service to our customers, and our customers, in return, show decency and compassion by sparing a little extra money.

So again. What is it that makes you so much more special?

What makes me special is I don't have to beg for extra $ for minimal work and I don't expect it, and I would never put myself in that position. Ever.

You're a manager, so you don't have to beg, but you know what?!? YOU are the real VILLAIN here, not the customer.

Why don't you pay your staff a "living wage" so they don't have to beg for extra $ in the form of tips???

If you cared about the staff you claim to love so much, then PAY them more than min or sub-min wage.

You won't, and we all know it. Because you claim you're just a puppet to the owners who are pulling your strings.

Grow a pair, and stand up to the owners, if you care so much about your your employees.


I'm not the problem here, you and ownership have created this charade to dupe your employees into accepting sub-living wages.

 

[desdemona]

Since the group revolves around bodybuilders, does this sentiment in any way stem from the idea of food as fuel? Do you feel that food is not something to be enjoyed in a relaxed, pleasant, and/or fun environment where a person is getting paid to take care of you?

Ordering fast food is a more 'transactional' activity, where tipping is not necessary, as the employees are earning at least minimum wage, set by the government, and the assembly line system is in place to get you out as quickly as possible. However, sit - down restaurants are marketing to a different audience, who expect a certain modicum of service in addition to merely providing a paid meal. Service workers are paid to take care of customers, and they are NOT paid minimum wage. Tipped employees are paid at an hourly rate that is substantially less than minimum wage, because it is assumed that they will make up the difference in tips, for providing good service. It's truly a merit - based pay system. Unfortunately, they run into situations like this, where they will serve people who have no understanding or appreciation for the service provided, and who will stiff them, no matter how good a job they do. This will lead to a negative effect on customer service, in general, and then everyone loses.

To say that servers have no skills worth paying for undermines the value of good customer service. This society is becoming increasingly transactional, as people can't glance up from their gadgets long enough to make eye contact, smile, and communicate with the person trying to help them. One element of the value proposition that servers provide is human connection. If you don't need or want that service, just order carryout, or grab the blender, protein, and creatine powder and go back to shreddin' the lats. You'd be freeing up a seat for someone who hopefully WANTS good service in a sit - down restaurant environment, with friendly waitstaff, who they have no problem tipping.

I understand that not all service workers are awesome, and there are some who aren't worth the hourly wage they're making--I do expect someone to do a good job when I pay for service. Now, if you were arguing to change the wages of service workers to AT LEAST minimum wage and eliminating tips, that wouldn't be entirely awful. However, I would argue that removing tips from the equation will have a negative economic impact on customer service, as it would remove the incentive to do a good job, and restaurants would become as transactional as McDonald's.

Great post. And your last paragraph actually brings up an interesting point. Tipping is a somewhat unique American tradition. In Europe, you don't tip a server. Their tip is built into the price of the meal (which is considerably higher than most American eateries on average). In most cases, I don't find that it leads to poor service. I find the wait staff hustles and delivers the food in a timely fashion (by European standards). They keep glasses full and don't care how long you stay at the table eating, drinking, and talking. But in this country, you have to be fast, courteous, and accurate. I waited tables and cooked when I was in high school and college. It was hard work on both ends - dealing with families with messy kids, rude teens, angry customers as waitress and hot, sweaty, messy, back breaking as cook. I respect those who work in the food service industry - by choice or by default.

 

[kopfhorer]

Great posting Flatfoot. You too, Desdemona.

As long as waitstaff earn below minimum wage (an inexcusable situation however you slice it), I shall pony up the appropriate percentage when I leave the table.

 

[TheTickleMonster]

I wonder why coldneck refuses to tell us what he does... I think he's been asked twice and both times all he said is he's someone that doesn't have to beg people for money... And I've never actually had a waitress beg me for money. Sure they expect a tip but it's not like they actually sit there and say "Please, can I have a tip?" I don't know why he feels like he needs to demean waitresses. He's never done it. He probably doesn't realize how hard it can. Especially when you have to constantly smile at annoying people you'd probably rather punch in the face. I don't think anyone should support him or his movement.

 

[Blue Soda]

What makes me special is I don't have to beg for extra $ for minimal work and I don't expect it, and I would never put myself in that position. Ever.

You're a manager, so you don't have to beg, but you know what?!? YOU are the real VILLAIN here, not the customer.

Why don't you pay your staff a "living wage" so they don't have to beg for extra $ in the form of tips???

If you cared about the staff you claim to love so much, then PAY them more than min or sub-min wage.

You won't, and we all know it. Because you claim you're just a puppet to the owners who are pulling your strings.

Grow a pair, and stand up to the owners, if you care so much about your your employees.


I'm not the problem here, you and ownership have created this charade to dupe your employees into accepting sub-living wages.

You're wrong on every account. The owner sets the pay rates and he pays every employee above minimum wage, raises based on tenure, bonuses based on collective success, advances for employees in need, and he often pays them out of pocket if the shop isn't doing well. So no, I'm not the villain, and neither is our owner. He's a good man and wouldn't be intimidated by you or your buddies.

Also, no one is begging for money. Our customers are thoughtful people, capable of good will and empathy.

Nice try Coldneck, but every one of your assumptions are incorrect.

 

[milagros317]

Yeah, I'll get right on that, Milagros aka Mr. Gazillion posts.

And people assume I'm *dumb* because I like to work out and take care of myself.

Here is what would happen: We would order, eat clams (I usually abuse clams, but I can make exceptions) and leave no tip at the clam joint .

If the waitress is hot, I will definitely give her a tip, and then some, when she gets off. Pun intended, Wha whaaaaa.

Fine, go right ahead. As I said, I will be very interested to find out what happens to you when you return the next day.

PS: You wouldn't have to eat clams; their menu is quite extensive:
http://www.umbertosclamhouse.com/#!menu/cl69

 

[coldneck]

I wonder why coldneck refuses to tell us what he does... I think he's been asked twice and both times all he said is he's someone that doesn't have to beg people for money... And I've never actually had a waitress beg me for money. Sure they expect a tip but it's not like they actually sit there and say "Please, can I have a tip?" I don't know why he feels like he needs to demean waitresses. He's never done it. He probably doesn't realize how hard it can. Especially when you have to constantly smile at annoying people you'd probably rather punch in the face. I don't think anyone should support him or his movement.

I've never been asked, once or twice.
Show me some proof before making reckless accusations, bub.

I'm going to disappoint you here ... I'm a Senior Project Manager for one of the largest General Contractors in the US.
I build Airports, Hospitals, Military Bases, etc.

Choke on it, biatch!

 

[coldneck]

You're wrong on every account. The owner sets the pay rates and he pays every employee above minimum wage, raises based on tenure, bonuses based on collective success, advances for employees in need, and he often pays them out of pocket if the shop isn't doing well. So no, I'm not the villain, and neither is our owner. He's a good man and wouldn't be intimidated by you or your buddies.

Also, no one is begging for money. Our customers are thoughtful people, capable of good will and empathy.

Nice try Coldneck, but every one of your assumptions are incorrect.

umm, yeah. I beg to differ.

If you check your facts, the waiters / waitresses at *almost ALL* restaurants are paid well below Minimum Wage.
This is the basis of the argument here, sunshine.

If you don't believe me ... ask 'em. Duh!

I realize it might be very difficult for you, but for the sake of the rest of us, try to keep up so I don't have to go back and explain the basic points to you, ok?

#facepalm

 

[TMF Jeff]

Yeah, I'll get right on that, Milagros aka Mr. Gazillion posts.

Choke on it, biatch!

This is the basis of the argument here, sunshine.

I'm going to ask you specifically, OP, to stop with the name calling. You put out this controversial post with the obvious intention of getting people fired up and engaged in a debate, which you accomplished. You're calling waitstaff and other restaurant employees all kinds of names, in addition to the quotes above.

So if you're going to start a fire, expect some response, and if you can't handle being disagreed with, then don't go down this road in the first place. First among the people in this thread, since it's yours and you're picking this fight, you should be prepared to handle being argued with without flying off the handle.

 

[Blue Soda]

umm, yeah. I beg to differ.

If you check your facts, the waiters / waitresses at *almost ALL* restaurants are paid well below Minimum Wage.
This is the basis of the argument here, sunshine.

If you don't believe me ... ask 'em. Duh!

I realize it might be very difficult for you, but for the sake of the rest of us, try to keep up so I don't have to go back and explain the basic points to you, ok?

#facepalm

Almost ALL being the operative phrase. We don't work in a restaurant either. Our shop doubles as a music venue, event space, etc. So we pay our employees slightly above minimum wage since they are asked to wear many hats, so to speak

 

[Flatfoot]

Great post. And your last paragraph actually brings up an interesting point. Tipping is a somewhat unique American tradition. In Europe, you don't tip a server. Their tip is built into the price of the meal (which is considerably higher than most American eateries on average). In most cases, I don't find that it leads to poor service. I find the wait staff hustles and delivers the food in a timely fashion (by European standards). They keep glasses full and don't care how long you stay at the table eating, drinking, and talking. But in this country, you have to be fast, courteous, and accurate. I waited tables and cooked when I was in high school and college. It was hard work on both ends - dealing with families with messy kids, rude teens, angry customers as waitress and hot, sweaty, messy, back breaking as cook. I respect those who work in the food service industry - by choice or by default.

While European countries may build the gratuity into the meal, as you say, tipping is very much a part of the American culture. If restaurants were to remove that element, I speculate that there would be a negative impact on the businesses, as a whole. Increased wages will require restaurants to increase the prices to compensate for increased overhead costs. Psychologically, customers will become discouraged by the increased prices, even though it's not 'technically' a higher price (at least not for those who choose to tip.). I anticipate that some customers would be very vocal about the price increase--similar to how many are regarding automatic gratuities for large groups. I think that will set a tone of expecting half-assed customer service, which will be a self - fulfilling prophecy (I find that people who expect to have a bad experience will usually find what they're looking for.). While some servers will exhibit more hustle as the stress of wondering whether or not they will be stiffed would be eliminated, others will realize that they are now being compensated for their time, regardless of how well they perform. This will remove any incentive to move expediently. I anticipate that those who smoke will take more smoke breaks. Over the long run, the system could work after a gradual transition, but in the short term, the culture shock would hurt businesses and customer service as a whole. I just think that in our fast-paced, eat and run American culture, restaurants will be just like fast food restaurants, and will share the same reputation.

 

[desdemona]

While European countries may build the gratuity into the meal, as you say, tipping is very much a part of the American culture. If restaurants were to remove that element, I speculate that there would be a negative impact on the businesses, as a whole. Increased wages will require restaurants to increase the prices to compensate for increased overhead costs. Psychologically, customers will become discouraged by the increased prices, even though it's not 'technically' a higher price (at least not for those who choose to tip.). I anticipate that some customers would be very vocal about the price increase--similar to how many are regarding automatic gratuities for large groups. I think that will set a tone of expecting half-assed customer service, which will be a self - fulfilling prophecy (I find that people who expect to have a bad experience will usually find what they're looking for.). While some servers will exhibit more hustle as the stress of wondering whether or not they will be stiffed would be eliminated, others will realize that they are now being compensated for their time, regardless of how well they perform. This will remove any incentive to move expediently. I anticipate that those who smoke will take more smoke breaks. Over the long run, the system could work after a gradual transition, but in the short term, the culture shock would hurt businesses and customer service as a whole. I just think that in our fast-paced, eat and run American culture, restaurants will be just like fast food restaurants, and will share the same reputation.

Oh, I agree whole-heartedly. It's just fascinating to me that the cultural difference results in a different mind set and set of expectations. I worked hard for my tips when I waited tables and took pride in knowing my regulars and having everything just right for them. Sad to see this becoming a "movement" for no tips so to speak. There are lots of professions who work on tips other than in the food industry. So I'm not really sure what the point is - other than a public rant.

 

[Mitchell]

Two comments..

Although it was a long time ago.. (Early 1990s)..

Flat mentioned European countries building the tips into the meal.. This at least used to be true for the Bahamas as well. When I visited Nassau several times in the late 1980s and early 1990s, there was a 15% tip built into all the meals for room services, and at the hotel and island's other eating places. The service down there, at least used to be.. notoriously slow, and I can remember wondering why the tip was built in. It was explained to me that if it wasn't, some people wouldn't tip.

Observation two..

I've been to some restaurants in New York, both very fancy, and more .. moderate.. where the service is excellent, and the waiters and waitresses really "Take care of you", and strive to do their best to make you happy. In my view.. this excellent service entitles them to a great tip. I read an article not long ago.. stating that supposedly.. the "New Norm" for tipping.. is 25%. It has always been my understanding that tipping is supposed to be 15% for "average service", and 20% in "Fine" restaurants. I rarely leave 15%, usually preferring to leave at least 18% to 20%, with more than that for excellent service even in a moderately priced place, or in a fine restaurant.

I view tipping as just part of life with eating out, taking cabs.. etc.. It's just how it is.

 

[Flatfoot]

Oh, I agree whole-heartedly. It's just fascinating to me that the cultural difference results in a different mind set and set of expectations. I worked hard for my tips when I waited tables and took pride in knowing my regulars and having everything just right for them. Sad to see this becoming a "movement" for no tips so to speak. There are lots of professions who work on tips other than in the food industry. So I'm not really sure what the point is - other than a public rant.

Something that's funny to me, since you brought up Europe... When I was first deployed on ship, we got to take liberty in Crete and in Malta. I think some of those coastal restaurants were accustomed to Americans, because I DO remember higher prices, AND I remember a spot for a tip on my receipts! 😛 Whether or not it was normal, I tipped. I didn't want to appear to be a cheapskate.

The other thing that bothered me is that they knew proper portion control better than most Americans. I wanted more food, darn it! lol It stuck out to me when a few buddies and I went to a pizza place in Malta. When they told us how big the pizzas were, we each ordered our own (About the size of a personal, under 12" diameter.). Local people were watching us, commenting on how much Americans eat, looking amazed.

 

[TMF Jeff]

If they abolished tipping as a practice, this is what would happen; the restaurants would have to pay the staff more, and they would charge you more for your food to cover it. It would be the exact same situation, except your waiter would have no incentive for being nice to you.

 

[Sodahead]

I just tipped the pizza guy

 

[BrightEyes1082]

Surely this is a hoax. I always tip at least 30%. Fuck people who stiff waitstaff.

 

[Mitchell]

I don't know if this happens in other cities, but, in New York, there is another person who gets tipped, the bagel guy.

I go into a bagel shop across the St from my apt once or twice a week. There is a tipping box on the counter of the bagel place. Usually I get lox on a bagel, which can cost.. $11.50, so I generally give the guy $13 and tell him to keep the change. This seems to be standard practice in this particular shop. I've seen pastry places in Manhattan, where they have tipping boxes too,. if a server gives you a donut/pastry, etc.

 

[Blue Soda]

All of my employees who worked the last shift last night made good tips. Guess the movement is failing lol