President Bush... oh dear...

[Lynchy]

I thought it was about time people heard a strong British perspecive on what is going on in the US. Some of my views may be dissagreeable to some people here, they may even piss some people off. But it's about time you guys listened to what others think.

I'll start by quoting President Bush:

"It is my goal to stamp out terrorism once and for all."

Erm... yeah right. The US has been funding the IRA for years, and he wants to stamp ou terrorism?!

No offence, but this whole situation seems to me like a testament to America's arrogance more than anything else. The thing is, the American public seem to be the smart ones who actually have mixed feelings about all this. It's the polititions, the people in power, who worry me. If there is a war, it will be America that fuels it, not the Middle East. What's more, it will be feuled by sheer arogance.

All this stuff has got me very angry now. The IRA have recently taken to throwing petrol bombs at children. Was Bush's speech some kind of sick joke or just dark irony?

One more thing, a quote for everyone to look at:

"Someone 'wearing a diaper on his head' should expect to be interrogated."
- U.S. Rep. John Cooksey (R-Louisiana)

I rest my case.

 

[shark]

as far as lynchy's opinion......there has never been anyone as arrogant as the British have been throughout history.They have takan every step to subjugate other peoples to feed their own appetites at home.There are a hell of alot of people in Ireland to attest to that.It is also the biggest reason we booted your asses out of here years ago.

 

[qjakal]

Yes...and No...

The British and Americans ALWAYS stand together when it counts...so why try to make something out of nothing? Lynchys assertion that we "support" the IRA is absurd, but he's entitled to an opinion....the IRA is on its home ground and has basically no supply lines, so the amount of support they need is minimal to nonexistent. They purchase weaponry as does nearly EVERYONE (Britain included) from the US. Does this mean we support all countries that utilize any of our technology? As I said, absurd. The amount of aid we send to Ireland is nearly the lowest % per capita of any country in the world. We send MORE to Afghanistan....so perhaps you might enlighten us on this support system we have in place for the IRA? Q

 

[Everlast]

yeah.......this is all too ironic.........

yeah......it's ironic that we are being bitten in the arse by what we actually kinda "started" in the first place. When I say that we started it, I mean that we supplied the crazy @$%#s with the weapons, training, and the camps back in the early 80's....not knowing that they were gonna use that stuff for terrorist purposes...it seems that decisions made back in the late reagan era and the bush era are coming back to haunt us now......it's a shame....

Well, about bush's speech......I kinda liked it, though when he said that this war was going to be a long war, unlike any war before it.....well.....it scared the crap outa me. I just got a feeling of impending doom......don't ask me why, but I just fear being bombed by something containing a disease I can't pronounce.

Man, I wish I could talk more about this, but I need to sleep........later everyone......

 

[Longbaugh]

I don't think it's arrogance as much as it is sadness and anger over the murder of thousands of are fellow Americans(some that I knew). As far as fueling a war, that was already done when the attacks on Semptember 11 occured. That fuel did'nt come from the U.S. The fact that anyone should think we should'nt react is insulting to all those who died and to the U.S.. NO ONE has ever suffered a terrorist attack this bad(the number of people missing/dead just keeps riseing). President Bush, U.S. Military, U.S. citizens have every right to pursue those responsible and those who harbor them no matter what anyone in the world community says or thinks. As far as american people go, everyone I know supports military action and the President.

Not to act would be far more dangerous than to retaliate. Showing weakness is far more dangerous.


And the guy who made the diaper comment is just one man he doesn't represent the opinions of all U.S. citizens.

 

[SlaverTickler]

Point out a little history.

Hay shark, the Britt's have a right to be arogant. Thay concorred the whole dambed world. They did it the hard way, by putting men on the fields. As for the IRA, well I had an Irish buddy and he hates both the sepritists and the Unionists. Does anybody remember a guy named Oliver North, or that Pez Bush Sr didn't have the nads to go in and finnish off Sadam to begin with.

The UN should start on the west end of the Midle East and move east until they take over the whole thing. Then all the people could live in a healthy and safe inviroment with the UN flag waving high above. Oh and one last thing, if it hadn't been for the war with France, the collanie that became the United States of America would have stayed a collanie alot longer.

 

[Longbaugh]

I think the U.S. as well repaid the French since then.

 

[Strelnikov]

I've exchanged email with people in India who thought the Brits were racists. I disagree. The Brits simply treated everyone who wasn't British as a "native", regardless of race or religion. If anything, they behaved better in India than in Ireland.

Lynchy is right in saying that the IRA operates here, but wrong in saying that their activities are tolerated. The FBI turned up a bunch of them in South Alabama while investigating the mail bomb murder of a Federal judge some years back. They were gun smugglers who had nothing to do with the mail bomb. Those individuals are now guests of Uncle Sam at the Gray Bar Hotel in Leavenworth, Kansas.

Meanwhile, we have other fish to fry. Let's not squabble amongst ourselves.

Strelnikov

 

[Rusty Shackleford]

A little US of A arrogance for ya

***

 

[SlaverTickler]

Hay Fatboy

The trick about living in the US is that you have the right to do and say whatever you want as long as it's pk with evryone elts. Look back at altercations I've had on this very forum. All I did was responed to a guys coment with an opposing oppinion and I was blasted with insaults to myself and my Country (Canada).

Think about what you wrote, You started out as a pissy little country (collony) and were able to beat the most powerful empire (the british) in world history.Now the U.S. is the most powerful country in the world and your going up against a pissy little country. Of course your not at war with anyone on you level (as the Britts were durring your Revalution), and you can lob mistles from 100 miles away.

I look at it like this...Afganastan is Rocky, he's got nothing to lose going into this fight. The US is like Apalo Creed, strong, tough, and the champion of the world. Appolo got cocky, and Rocky beat him. Think about that, when you decide to actualy send in ground troops.

 

[asutickler]

Actually...

I have to disagree with your analogy there, man. This is more like Pee-Wee Herman vs. George Foreman (and I mean 70's George). Not just that, but this is like those two stepping into the ring a few weeks after Pee-Wee spotted George on the street, snuck up on him, and kicked Big George right in the proverbial sack. There's gonna be hell to pay.

As for wether the rest of the world agrees with us or not: It dosen't matter. I don't recall Britain asking for international support the last time they beat down the IRA. (Britain's on our side in this anyway) We're asking for an international coalition merely to be polite, not because we actually need it. If any NATO countries want to cringe and cower and weasel their way out of their treaty obligations- so be it. (We'll probably step in and save them again anyway, next time Germany decides to conquer Europe.) If Iran wants to make a big show out of "denying" us the use of their airspace- so be it. (Iran's probably next in line for an anti-terror ass-kicking anyway.) If Saddam, Hamas, Hesbollah, etc. want to strut around like the death of 6000 innocent people has somehow finally validated their own pathetic illusion of manhood- so be it. (given the mood of the US people and government regarding terrorists, they're all pretty much walking dead men as we speak.)

When we are rightfully angered and united against an enemy, comparing the USA to the rest of the world is like comparing a freight train to a bunch of cows. They can moo and complain all they want about where its going, but they sure as hell had better not try to get in it's way.


ASUTickler

 

[qjakal]

Ouch....lol

Sorry...just stopped a runaway train with my left hand. Yup, good analogy, but we can't get them to stand and fight, much less hold still on the tracks. BTW, it won't be Germany next time, or most likely ever again. They are one of the mostly zealously independent democracies in the world, perhaps even more ardent than our own jaded republic! Look for perhaps China or an alliance including them if you're forecasting for any future world conflict (don't bet on it though, the world is shrinking rapidly in nearly every sense, especially economically). As we have discussed extensively in this and other threads, our objective should be to wipe out the oppressive regimes guarding the terrorist camps/training grounds, while doing the least possible collateral damage to the population and premises, least possible defined as the amount it takes to get the damn job done. I have a feeling that after the first few episodes have run their course, we'll be getting a LOT of cooperation from some surprising sources....loook for it. So sayeth the Q.....

 

[shark]

Have to agree with Q on that one.I would be more wary of China than anyone else on Earth.As small as the world is getting,the Chinese couldn't care less about it.They have their own way of doing business-sometimes looking 500 years in the future.And Clinton was a willing partner,allowing technology sales that let them catch up decades in just a couple donations.
And Slaver,you're a scream.The British HAD a right to be arrogant.They needed logistic help from the US to fight Argentina in the Falklands.Hardly something to crow about.You should also recheck history-the French didn't raise a finger to help the colonies until thye beat the British at Saratoga.That was when the French were convinced the colonies were going to succeed.
Anyway,this can go on forever,and nobody can tell what would have happened way back when.Suffice it to say that we have much bigger problems to worry about now.Just realize that if these terrorists think they can pull this stuff off on the US,they won't think twice about it with anyone else either.And the UN stepping in......they are the epitome of incompetence.Who else would make plans,like in Korea,and clear them through the security council,with a member being an active backer of the enemy(USSR)?

take care all.

 

[Everlast]

............now I got the rocky theme song stuck in my head......

...........dammit...........

 

[nontkl]

Getting back to Lynchy's original post, I, as an American, must agree-this mess has been long in the making, and the US has long backed and trained terrorists (like, let's say, the Nicuraguan contra's, who left THIRTY THOUSAND CIVILLIANS DEAD!). And how did we support these nice people? By selling weapons to IRAN....only a few years after they TOOK HOSTAGES of Americans! And let's not forget our involvement all over South America, El Salvador, Guatemala!

Thank you Lynchy for noticing that the American public is not as one dimensional as our leaders would have you believe!!! It is positively embarrassing to hear politicians, not just Bush, speak in such condescending simpleton terms. Most US politicians, at least initially, really dropped the facade. But really, Bush truly is a horrible speaker-I mean, at least Reagan could deliver a speech! That's all that we require of Bush!!! We know that Colin Powell and Dick Cheney and Daddy Bush are the real brains behind the administration, all you have to do is be a good figurehead!

Like it or not,there is now going to be war and violence and retribution.....hell, the world's ECONOMY needs it!!! And what has been committed cannot stand in the civilized world....ANYWHERE, not just the USA (though, unfortunately, it took something like this to prompt unified action)...and action must be taken or else we're going to just collapse (as it is, who knows that we won't?!). It's an us or them situation, now! And though I don't like him and I didn't vote for him, he's the commander in chief and I've got to hope he does the right things, and uses the best strategy to surgically remedy the situation WE'RE ALL IN, it doesn't matter who's fault it is anymore and how we got in this mess, innocent people can't be treated like this anymore, like pawns in a game. But let's just hope that if the world manages not to blow itself up, that the entire world (the US included) (ESPECIALLY the US) can humble itself and try to listen to each other and work with each other and come together to make the world a more peaceful and tolerant place, ....doubtful, but a nice thought!!!

This probably makes zero sense since I'm kind of tired!

 

[qjakal]

"0"...no

Maybe not zero, but I do believe you were tired on this one bud....get some sleep and we old guys will be working on strategy for the upcoming battle. Old guys need no sleep, and since we're closer to death than you young pups, we instinctively understand the inner workings of how to manipulate it. You were correct regarding the world eventually being a more peaceful place....just as soon as some of the bad eggs are pushing up daisies. Evil days indeed, but better will come soon. Q

 

[Strelnikov]

Q

"Life is short--"
"But the years are long,"
"Not 'While The Evil Days Come Not.'"

Strelnikov

 

[qjakal]

Hey!

But...you gave both parts of the password! Actually, Mr H. was definitely on the beam regarding the direction of longevity, even right down to the current research being done on seniors with 4 living grandparents....spooky almost! Sometimes I believe he had access to info from the future...it's eerie. Q

 

[SlaverTickler]

You Missed The Boat

Hay shaerk you missed my point. The Brittish were fighting two wars, they had to decide what was more important. The collony or fighting the french. They chose the french. Has anybody though about the fact that the U.S. trained and armed the very people they are going to fight. That is why thay where able to fend of the former USSR. When the Americans said you owe us (like thay said to Kastro)They said NO WE DON'T, so the US put a trade embargose Who's the bully now.

 

[Everlast]

Well..........yeah........

You know, that is true, I remember from watching a documentary on TLC that we did give weapons and training to those people that we now consider the enemy.........man, what an interesting and ironic point.....

But I guess we can't really think about that right now.......the only thing that's on my mind is that, we infact owe those people that we "helped" to become terrorists something.......

And that would basically be an ass beating.....to put it lightly

Maybe we are bullies, but at the end of the day, I guess most people think that the ends justify the means......it's sad that it's that way with everything, but it's the reality of it all.....

Man, I dunno how I did that, but I just made myself really depressed.......I'd better stop typing now......

Later people......

 

[Longbaugh]

Were the bullies because we can be. HA HA. Just like when I hold down my girlfriends and tickle them(which is rare) they sometimes say I'm a mean bully, with tonge in cheak of course.


You must also rememeber that the Taliban militia itself is made up of a bunch of bullies that have tormented and killed many in the country and destoyed anything that is not islamic( This is one of many reasons that the embargos hold along with harboring terrorists). There is a group of freedom fighters known as the Northern Alliance that are Afghani's as well and they welcome a U.S. attack(they in fact have alot of are weapons to) on the Taliban and Bin Laden. Any way you look at it the Taliban are not very nice people and most of the world community had issues with their rule long before the U.S. was hit.

 

[shark]

Us the bullies? Maybe it's time to cut off the billions of foreign aid we hand out like candy all over the world,then turn away all future requests and balance our own budget with it.
As far as training our future enemies,it was once said that politics makes strange bedfellows.Sadly,this is quite true.
Lastly,if you recall,the British started impressing American seamen for their navy in the early 1800's.It doesn't seem that the British had the 2 war excuse when they lost the war of 1812.Sounds to me that they were going to fail alot sooner than some people here think.
No matter how things go down,there will always be different views of the same situation.At least in a free country,you can see them and decide what to believe all by yourself.No need for some bureaucrat or tyrant to tell you what to believe.I would have alot more to say about that,but now is not the time.There are bigger things going right now.

 

[Shem the Penman]

If you can balance the budget by saving just one-half of 1% of its total amount (which is what the U.S. spends on foreign aid), then you're an accounting genius.

 

[Strelnikov]

Accounting Genius

Washington DC is full of them. That's why increasing appropriations by only 10% over last year, instead of the 20% the agency wanted, is called a "spending cut".

Strelnikov

 

[SlaverTickler]

One more time.

The Brittish didn't lose the war of 1812, they lost the biggest battle but they wone the war. The Americans attacke the collony of Upper Canada (now known as Ontario) but were fended off by the Britts. It would have been lost but Loura Seacord (or is it Seacort...what ever) escaped from a house and told the Brittish about an ambush. That is why it's called Canada, and not a part of th us.

It is embarassing to learn that my country only has 250 men and women with the training to go into combat vs Afganistan. Now I understand why Pez Bush left us out of his speach.