Psychological Question for both 'lers and 'lees

[Fidji999]

I had a discussion with one of my best friends today. She surprised me by telling me, that if she is mad at a guy it really turns her on to think about tying him up and torturing him. She said, this fantasy only works for her, if she is really mad at someone, otherwise, she is all about romantic stuff like cuddeling and kissing.
So I started thinking about myself. I never associated being tied up with anger. Ok, I never want to get hurt, I am not into pain at all,
but why do I want to be tied up, completely helpless and tickletortured at all? I definitely don't want my 'ler to be angry with me. I do like to tease them to be kind of punished for being a bad girl, but only for the tickling and teasing I get back to be even more mercyless. But why do I want that?
Why do I not at all want to tie someone up and tickle them?
Couldn't come up with an answer so far.

I guess generally speaking, my question would be: what is the psychological aspect behind being either submissive or dominant?

Did any of you ever think about this and come up with an explanation?
I'd be really interested...

fidji

 

[Tegan]

sharing or discovering the 'secret'

Hi Fidji,
I have absolutely no expertise in psychology so the following is simply opinion, but only so far as I've asked myself very similar questions. Probably none of my answers are either new or ground-breaking, but it's how I feel nonetheless...

As far as being tied up, it's not unusual for people who for the most part are rather control-oriented (by that I mean, not necessarily control freaks, but a large part of their emotional needs are met by being sure some measure of control and understanding are present at all times in their day-to-day routines) find a desire to be either "controlled" or at least have their choices taken away from them for a little while. Further, for someone to know you have a kind of "secret" vulnerability - one that isn't apparent just by looking at you - could be exciting because yet again you haven't any say in what they may know about you, and what they might do to take advantage of that knowledge. There are so many different ways this can work out though...like, I can envision a young guy who is a newly-minted lawyer, is a type-A personality, an over-achiever, but has never shared his interest in being restrained and tickled to any girlfriend he's had. He could be super-smart, suave...all that...but imagine if an opposing attorney (who is very beautiful) walked by him during a break, introduced herself, then whispered in his ear "I know where you are really, REALLY ticklish" then continues to walk by. I can imagine him being wrecked concentration-wise, and perhaps, every time he sees her all he has to do is think of that and he can barely speak.

Another type that comes to mind is when someone knows or figures out you like tickling/being tickled, and that it turns you on. I can't tell you how many time girlfriends of mine like to torture me...like when we're taking a test and sitting across each other at a big desk. Jenny (fake name) has on more than one occasion put her bare foot on the chair next to me knowing I'd be unable to think of anything else. (Don't worry, she would eventually pay for it, BIG TIME! 🙂 ) Same thing at the movies...or worse, when we're all out eating dinner somewhere... "Gosh my foot itches sooooo bad, I wish someone would scratch it..."

I guess I'm still like a lot of you where we're wrestling with "what it all means" and while I'm still not super open about it, I don't feel bad about myself at all. The moment someone hears "bondage" they think you're a freak...so..in my ongoing efforts with my boyfriend, I just use words that carry as little baggage with them as possible. Like, instead of "Can I handcuff you" I might say "...just imagine if you couldn't block my hands..." that sort of thing. I don't know if I'm in denial about this whole 'fetish' thing, but for me it's just a matter of getting to the tickling, whatever it happens to be called. I'm less concerned about wondering "why" I like it, so I can just spend more time liking it I guess.

this was way too long....sorry...

-Tegan

 

[Funky Pimp]

Yeah, I wondered myself too, guess is something in the nature.
It always will be a dominant and a submissive being, in one things or anothers, or just one feel like a dominant one day and the nex day feel submissive, I think that somethimes the human emotions (anger, joy, sorrow, fear, courage, vulnerability, etc.) flow and change like the weather... dont you think?

 

[steph]

Hmmmm...interesting, little fijibabe.

When she says "torture," exactly what does she mean~beating the crap out of him?

Now, for tk purpose of discussion...I am mostly lee who loves being tied down, the loss of control. But, I think for me, at least, the attraction to that is that in my real life 😉 I'm domme. Not shovy-bitch obnoxious domme, but I'm always the kind of girl who "makes things happen" or at worst, is helping the ones who are. I like the change of role, I find it liberates me somehow...

XOXO

 

[Fidji999]

Hmmmm...interesting, little fijibabe.

When she says "torture," exactly what does she mean~beating the crap out of him?

Now, for tk purpose of discussion...I am mostly lee who loves being tied down, the loss of control. But, I think for me, at least, the attraction to that is that in my real life 😉 I'm domme. Not shovy-bitch obnoxious domme, but I'm always the kind of girl who "makes things happen" or at worst, is helping the ones who are. I like the change of role, I find it liberates me somehow...

XOXO

well, I was asking her exactly the same question, I'm still waiting for her answer 🙂 (we're emailing), but I don't think she would REALLY want to hurt him, at least I hope so.

I agree to your explanation, I've had it explaned that way before and it's true for me as well. Still there are lots of people who are like us in real life and still do not want to be tied up and helpless in the bedroom. So I think there must be something else.
On the other hand, does this also mean, that bedroom doms are softies in real life.

fidji

 

[lk70]

And what about all of us who like to switch? What's with us? Multiple personality disorder?

 

[tickleboynyc]

for me, it's all about control. having control or giving up control. but maybe most importantly, it's about TRUST.
after all, you can never have a tickling session without trust. what is more trusting than to let someone tie you up and be at their mercy? and for the ler, what is sweeter than to know that the lee trusts him/her so completely?

i think maybe it's the combination of those two? we all want to feel safe, accepted, trusted by our partner. indulging in bondage and tickle torture IMO is the ultimate in trust. sometimes i get warm fuzzy feelings thinking about being tied up and tickled...

also, although it's bondage and involves loss of control ,there's no pain or real discomfort involved. pain is a major turn off to me personally. i would consider anything involving pain as a breach of trust and therefore decidely un-sexy.

 

[tickleboynyc]

Hi Fidji,
I have absolutely no expertise in psychology so the following is simply opinion, but only so far as I've asked myself very similar questions. Probably none of my answers are either new or ground-breaking, but it's how I feel nonetheless...

As far as being tied up, it's not unusual for people who for the most part are rather control-oriented (by that I mean, not necessarily control freaks, but a large part of their emotional needs are met by being sure some measure of control and understanding are present at all times in their day-to-day routines) find a desire to be either "controlled" or at least have their choices taken away from them for a little while. Further, for someone to know you have a kind of "secret" vulnerability - one that isn't apparent just by looking at you - could be exciting because yet again you haven't any say in what they may know about you, and what they might do to take advantage of that knowledge. There are so many different ways this can work out though...like, I can envision a young guy who is a newly-minted lawyer, is a type-A personality, an over-achiever, but has never shared his interest in being restrained and tickled to any girlfriend he's had. He could be super-smart, suave...all that...but imagine if an opposing attorney (who is very beautiful) walked by him during a break, introduced herself, then whispered in his ear "I know where you are really, REALLY ticklish" then continues to walk by. I can imagine him being wrecked concentration-wise, and perhaps, every time he sees her all he has to do is think of that and he can barely speak.

Another type that comes to mind is when someone knows or figures out you like tickling/being tickled, and that it turns you on. I can't tell you how many time girlfriends of mine like to torture me...like when we're taking a test and sitting across each other at a big desk. Jenny (fake name) has on more than one occasion put her bare foot on the chair next to me knowing I'd be unable to think of anything else. (Don't worry, she would eventually pay for it, BIG TIME! 🙂 ) Same thing at the movies...or worse, when we're all out eating dinner somewhere... "Gosh my foot itches sooooo bad, I wish someone would scratch it..."

I guess I'm still like a lot of you where we're wrestling with "what it all means" and while I'm still not super open about it, I don't feel bad about myself at all. The moment someone hears "bondage" they think you're a freak...so..in my ongoing efforts with my boyfriend, I just use words that carry as little baggage with them as possible. Like, instead of "Can I handcuff you" I might say "...just imagine if you couldn't block my hands..." that sort of thing. I don't know if I'm in denial about this whole 'fetish' thing, but for me it's just a matter of getting to the tickling, whatever it happens to be called. I'm less concerned about wondering "why" I like it, so I can just spend more time liking it I guess.

this was way too long....sorry...

-Tegan

the lawyer scenario is INCREDIBLY sexy!!! jesus....! that would certainly work for me!

 

[Funky Pimp]

On the other hand, does this also mean, that bedroom doms are softies in real life.

fidji

Like I say the human emotions are hand to hand with the personality and somethimes flow and change like the weather... One day you feel like you want something diferent, in this case is just for fun.

 

[steph]

It's true in my particular case but I've met some real a-holes hon:0
I guess it all depends, everyone's different...

XOXO

On the other hand, does this also mean, that bedroom doms are softies in real life.

fidji

 

[Aragon]

I have an ex girlfriend who is a sex psychiatrist. She is an interesting girl, but that is behind the point. When she was in college she founs she was interested in sexual kinks and the like. She asked me, at the time a family friend and a year older, to experiment with her. I had never gotten into kink at that point and it facinated me. We found that she was always submissive, while I was a strong Dominant that liked to release myself to a strong woman once in a while.

Now, the time and our continued friendship we have still discussed the topic and figured out a few things. The ones who want the release are not wanting to give up for being being abused. There is a trust factor in the sane cases. True submissives feel safe with who they give up the control to and that is as much a gain in the turn on. She likes being spanked alot, but one day she had an abusive prick be referred to her. In the middle of the session he grabbed her and started spanking her across his knee. Other than the fact that her security man beat the tar out of him, he caused her no turn on but anger. Now when I was with her(stupid me is not, but long story) she loved me lightly spanking her, even in public. She also loved how I would make her sit on my lap and though it was her worst, loved the tickles. If someone does those things to her she doesn't know, she gets mad as she considers it a form of rape. The taking away of control by force with the person neither consenting or wanting. No she would not charge the person, but she has a strong sense of her personal space.

Me, I love taking control. Most people say that a Dominant has little control of their public life, which makes me laugh. I have control and am happy with it. Since I took my life to the point I want it, I feel more dominant. To me, it is a rush to be in control. In dominating a woman, I love to hear my girl and watch her as she releases her control. It is a cherished gift to me. I learned that it is to be well taken care of. I hate causing pain, but that comes from the fact I am in constant pain from various injuries and things from a well lived life. I have seen abusive guys claiming to be dominant and they make me angry. They use the lifestyle I love to make women hurt and to make them bleed and it is ridiculous. To me, a woman that gives herself up to me is to be treated as my princess.

Sorry if I confuse you more, but I am not sure my clarity of thought right now, having a very odd day with my bipolarism.

 

[Redmage]

Fidji, bondage has a lot of different attractions for me (I'm usually a Top, BTW). I enjoy the control aspects. I enjoy the technical aspects - being able to make a tie that's pretty, functional, and comfortable. And I like having both hand free for doing whatever I have in mind.

 

[Fidji999]

And what about all of us who like to switch? What's with us? Multiple personality disorder?

LOL, I don't know. you tell me 🙂
Actually I WAS thinking about you switches as well, but you confuse me even more 🙂
maybe for you it is more fun than turn on?
Maybe for you it is like Funky Pimp says just a matter of daily mood, which it is not for me btw. Not one single day in my life have I ever wanted to tie someone up and tickle them and I am 100% sure I never will.

fidji

 

[Fidji999]

I have an ex girlfriend who is a sex psychiatrist. She is an interesting girl, but that is behind the point. When she was in college she founs she was interested in sexual kinks and the like. She asked me, at the time a family friend and a year older, to experiment with her. I had never gotten into kink at that point and it facinated me. We found that she was always submissive, while I was a strong Dominant that liked to release myself to a strong woman once in a while.

Now, the time and our continued friendship we have still discussed the topic and figured out a few things. The ones who want the release are not wanting to give up for being being abused. There is a trust factor in the sane cases. True submissives feel safe with who they give up the control to and that is as much a gain in the turn on. She likes being spanked alot, but one day she had an abusive prick be referred to her. In the middle of the session he grabbed her and started spanking her across his knee. Other than the fact that her security man beat the tar out of him, he caused her no turn on but anger. Now when I was with her(stupid me is not, but long story) she loved me lightly spanking her, even in public. She also loved how I would make her sit on my lap and though it was her worst, loved the tickles. If someone does those things to her she doesn't know, she gets mad as she considers it a form of rape. The taking away of control by force with the person neither consenting or wanting. No she would not charge the person, but she has a strong sense of her personal space.

Me, I love taking control. Most people say that a Dominant has little control of their public life, which makes me laugh. I have control and am happy with it. Since I took my life to the point I want it, I feel more dominant. To me, it is a rush to be in control. In dominating a woman, I love to hear my girl and watch her as she releases her control. It is a cherished gift to me. I learned that it is to be well taken care of. I hate causing pain, but that comes from the fact I am in constant pain from various injuries and things from a well lived life. I have seen abusive guys claiming to be dominant and they make me angry. They use the lifestyle I love to make women hurt and to make them bleed and it is ridiculous. To me, a woman that gives herself up to me is to be treated as my princess.

Sorry if I confuse you more, but I am not sure my clarity of thought right now, having a very odd day with my bipolarism.

no, you did not confuse me more at all, actually you and also some of the others said something, that really gives me a clue. It's about the ultimate trust and feeling completely safe while totally loosing control at the same time. this is exacly what I want.
yep, that explains it for me.

btw, I really like the way you describe your feelings toward your 'lee's as well. To describe this as a gift sounds very beautiful to me.

thank you all for your answers!

 

[kurchatovium]

This may be off the main question a bit but I would like to say that IMHO its not good to mix "anger" with BDSM. BDSM is all about trust and the submissive has to have complete and total faith in the person that is tying him or her up. Thus punishing someone for being late, or forgetting a birthday, or not taking out the trash might sound like a grand ideal but in the long run I think it undermines the trust the submissive has in the dominant. I think it ok to fantasize about such things but I think its not good to act out those "anger" like torture fantsties in real life.

 

[LadyCat]

And what about all of us who like to switch? What's with us? Multiple personality disorder?

Sounds good to me!! I'm a switch also. Though I definately like being tied up... not "in control"

 

[The_Raptor]

I'm not alone!

LOL, I don't know. you tell me 🙂
Actually I WAS thinking about you switches as well, but you confuse me even more 🙂
maybe for you it is more fun than turn on?
Maybe for you it is like Funky Pimp says just a matter of daily mood, which it is not for me btw. Not one single day in my life have I ever wanted to tie someone up and tickle them and I am 100% sure I never will.

fidji

Well I share exactly the same feelings with you ,I have never wanted to tie someone up and tickle them from my discovery of tickling and I am 100% sure I never will also ,don't know why !
I've seen people who like to do it but for me I just don't like it.
I think it's matter of variety between people so we don't have to feel weird about it.

 

[cloudgazer2k]

wow, so much good stuff in this thread...lemme see if i can throw in my 2 cents...
fidji999, i consider myself a switch and so does my fiancee. there is no real definition of "sub" or "domme" in our relationship. but when one of us is tied, the other is pretty darned evil 🙂. when it's just me and her, the whole power-exchange ends in a VERY nice way, and it helps us release the anxiety and blahs of the week.
now, i have dated women that were either very submissive or a switch...i never dated a true domme. but i couldn't stand it when the "true" submissive wouldn't have her revenge on me. it wasn't that she couldn't, but would not...and i found it difficult to have a relationship with her because there would never be any kind of "power exchange"...i like retribution, kink-wise, and the relationship died before long.
being a switch gives the best of both worlds: having someone under you laughing/moaning/begging etc. while bound, and then enduring it later. nothing is more of a turn on for me when, after my girl is untied, she looks at me and says "you're next!"

 

[lk70]

LOL, I don't know. you tell me 🙂
Actually I WAS thinking about you switches as well, but you confuse me even more 🙂
maybe for you it is more fun than turn on?
Maybe for you it is like Funky Pimp says just a matter of daily mood, which it is not for me btw. Not one single day in my life have I ever wanted to tie someone up and tickle them and I am 100% sure I never will.

fidji

I can't speak for other switches, but for me it can be either fun or turn on. In almost all cases, there is a certain amount of turn on even if it's primarily fun. On one on one scenarios with the right partner, there's no greater turn on (and what's more fun than that?)

And it's not daily mood because I can lee for an hour, then spring up and be ready to ler. In fact, revenge is the BEST. OTOH, if I'm with someone who only wants to ler, then I'm fine to just go to sleep after leeing too 😉

Essentially I like control over everything in my life. I prefer to be the driver and take my car, for example. I'd rather drive than fly if I can. I want to know what's happening and when and I don't like uncertainty. So I'm sure the part of me that likes to lee is that one who wants to let go of all that and the part of me who wants to ler is pretty much the normal me

 

[Fidji999]

I can't speak for other switches, but for me it can be either fun or turn on. In almost all cases, there is a certain amount of turn on even if it's primarily fun. On one on one scenarios with the right partner, there's no greater turn on (and what's more fun than that?)

And it's not daily mood because I can lee for an hour, then spring up and be ready to ler. In fact, revenge is the BEST. OTOH, if I'm with someone who only wants to ler, then I'm fine to just go to sleep after leeing too 😉

Essentially I like control over everything in my life. I prefer to be the driver and take my car, for example. I'd rather drive than fly if I can. I want to know what's happening and when and I don't like uncertainty. So I'm sure the part of me that likes to lee is that one who wants to let go of all that and the part of me who wants to ler is pretty much the normal me

hmm, interesting, seems that deep down inside I am pretty fed up with all the control I have in my real life and therefore I only want to let go
but funny, what you said about driving. I am exactly the same, always drive by myself, even if that means going in seperate cars. But as soon as I am attracted to someone, trust him and feel safe with him, I actually love being the passenger. hmm, never thought about it that way, but that's surely no coincidence

anyway, thanks again everyone for your very interesting answers.

fidji