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Ran across this online...the average Americans rant.

I don't want to get into a big debate over the question I am about to ask, nor do I want to step on any one's toes by possibly veering slightly off the main topic, but I would just like to know how most here feel about that dinosaur of an organisation that is long past it's extinction...the I.R.S. ? (actually I fel the question is relative to the topic of discussion)

I may get a serious bashing for this...but I thought ól Ross Perot's idea of an across the board 10% tax was a good idea!
 
Faramir said:
I don't want to get into a big debate over the question I am about to ask, nor do I want to step on any one's toes by possibly veering slightly off the main topic, but I would just like to know how most here feel about that dinosaur of an organisation that is long past it's extinction...the I.R.S. ? (actually I fel the question is relative to the topic of discussion)

I may get a serious bashing for this...but I thought ól Ross Perot's idea of an across the board 10% tax was a good idea!

I don't know if 10% tax would work, because I havn't run the figures, but I do have some thought-provoking info.

Did you know that the IRS has no legal power to collect taxes? Hillarious eh, but I think it's true. When the IRS collect money for the government, from a legal standpoint they're actually stealing. I'm not 100% certain but I think it has something to do with the status of America as an insolvent corporation that renders it thus.

Just a snippet...
 
Faramir, I don't think anyone here is a big fan of the IRS, but somebody's gotta collect government revenue....

It's funny you should mention Perot's flat tax proposition. I was a big fan of Perot back in '92, and I would have voted for him back then (I was too young to vote). The flat tax thing was one of the few things I didn't like about his platform though. Flat taxes always favor the rich. Mathematically, it might seem like a fair thing, but taxing everyone the same percentage is naive. You have to remember that there is a set amount of money required to live off comfortably and people who fall into the lower tax brackets are more dependent on every penny they earn. Whereas, if you fall into the top two brackets, you're already living pretty comfortably to begin with. My theory is this: the more wealth you have, the more you get out of society (materially and politically, not psychologically or emotionally), and therefore, the more you should give back. Bill Gates obviously can spare several billion of his income because even having one billion to live off of is excessive to say the least. On the other hand, someone who makes 25,000 a year shouldn't have to pay the same percentage of his income as a multibillionaire, because he or she is living relatively frugally (unless he or she is in massive debt).

I think it's more than fair that the highest tax bracket pays a little less than 39% of their income to the federal gov't. Besides, people can always deduct down to the AMT (alternative minimum tax). The AMT is the required percentage you have to pay out in taxes, regardless of deductions. The AMT only affects people who make over about 45,000 a year, and the percentage goes up with income. I believe the highest it gets is 28%, so that means that people in the highest tax bracket can deduct their tax liability down by about 10%. Now, compare this mandatory 28% with what percentage most other First World citizens must pay in taxes at the equivalent level of income. I think you'll find that American taxes are dramatically lower than most of Western Europe's or even Canada's.
 
Damn right! That's why European students are so pissed of at having to pay American style tuition fees. Reduce our taxes to match America's and give parents the same sort of breaks in savings schemes they get in Ameirca, and there might not be so much pissed offed-ness.
 
Getting back to the original post that Joby quoted...Isn't it funny how bitching becomes more acceptable when it's labeled as a "rant." I have a hard time finding sympathy for somebody who blames the world for their problems. Lady, whoever you are, get a job, deal with your issues, and quit your bitching.
 
Drew, we may disagree on a lot of things, but this is one issue I totally agree with you on.... lol
 
Amnesiac Explains the World and Teaches...Essentially Nothing

I'm not an economist, or political analyst or even a potential voter. That said, I do think I have a few clues as to where these concerns stem from.

The problem with problems is that they rarely have ONE SOURCE. All of the qualities of this "rant" have thousands of smaller cause-and-effect events behind them. Money is one, culture another, religion as well, etc., etc. ONE problem behind all this is that these issues are maintained by political philosophies and cultural beliefs...so when anybody talks about them, the discussions revert to ideological bludgeoning rather than investigation...for reasons I'll get to at the end.

"Money is the root of all evil" as the saying goes. Unfortunately, this saying has led to the assumption that MONEY = EVIL, rather than money LEADING to evil; since human interaction still depends on trade and material realization to function, money is fine...its the REACTION to money that can cause trouble. To attack money itself is to deflect attention from our own flaws as a species, not merely a society...even the Communists are finding that out, even if they won't admit it.

Remember the late 1940s? American coporations sold the first of their industries to Japan to gain cooperation with thei closed market, and found out just how much money they could earn by bookkeeping rather than production; and here's where the modern trend started. After a good 40 years, business leaders figured out that by owning and selling American industries, the Japanese gained global customers, and therefore, they pocketed unheard of amounts of global money; the unjust conditions of underdeveloped areas helps facilitate that process with the time it saves. Enron was probably just one of the more careless ones. EZssentially, the trend is to make as much money as possible for yourself and then leave to luxury in other regions...just like Agent Smith said in The Matrix.

Most people stop there and start looking for who's responsible. But beneath that is a pathology that goes little observed. Where did this interest in money come from? America by ideology doesn't endorse greed; rather I think something else unintentionally has: Protestant Work Ethic.

Whether Christian or Hebrew or Islamic, any monotheistic philosophy encourages individuals to focus their attention to the Divine; the purpose is to maximize contact with the Divine to ensure purity. Experience teaches that work is useful for fulfilling theological principles and distracting from natural impulses, both of which are useful to religious institutions. The Protestant Work Ethic is a more extreme version of the whole "Idle hands are the devil's playground" belief, and I surmise that centuries of this practice have created a culture where individual value and worth are based on accomplishment...which can only be measured by cataloguing of material and monetary worth. And since anyone in the business world can tell you that ego is greater than or equal to money, the most likely (but not exclusive) conclusion is that CEOS, executives, etc. are constantly pushing to one-up each other by increasing their wealth and power beyond practical means; this has led to the suppression of important scientific inventions to protect the market of perishable materials like oil; exercises that can have devastating results. Why else would they attempt to collect more money than is possible to spend or even print?

In fact, what can you buy with hundreds of billions of dollars? You can only live in one house at a time/drive one car at a time, etc. so the money loses any REAL value other than its perceived value. VANITY it seems, not GREED is the greater (but not the only) culprit. After all, what have you done in your life to be perceived as cool or hip or worthy by your peers? Now up the ante by a hundred-fold.

And this afflicts the people who write to the thread; highly-educated people legally require greater salaries, so they are not hired at all; industries are shipped overseas to save the cost of union fees and standard salaries, as well as cost on premium materials. Thus, the job market suffers.

Illegal immigrants are a hot topic because they take jobs we don't for substantially less money in order to stave off deportation, making them the new slave labor. But one MAJOR fact is that their countries are so poorly maintained that America is one of the few options for progress open to them; if they could make their successes in their homelands they would...and any of us would do the same if America were in that position. Cultural structure in these countries determine the ease or difficulty that comes from exploiting certain groups and building the institutions that thrive on them.

On a last note, another detrimental factor is population. In America, a family is a sacred institution (both secularly and theologically) regarded with great importance...so much so that our cultural values endorse people to interact with the purpose of starting one reflexively (a.k.a. "dating"). But while having a family may be religiously acceptable and culturally profitable, it does contribute to a population that may exceed the nation's ability to feed, house or employ them: EX: a single mother of one produces X amounts of waste, consumes X amount of resources, and requires X amount of space; the culturally ideal married mother of 5 produces 5X more of that...5 college funds, 5 cars, 5 mouths to feed, etc. and if thousands of families do the same all over the country, those exponential figures will ultimately breed themselves out of jobs and homes...and we already know what poverty does to people psychologically. Contraception is a useful countermeasure, but it is culturally opposed, which complicates matters.

So what does this mean? It means that there are no easy answers because there are no singular problems...they are all interconnected with other various motives and various cultural and social programs...all of which are at odds because of the bureaucratic ideology that provides the foundation for them. My reasoning is that the problems have grown to the proportions they have is because they build upon the flaws in our domestic architecture, which is based on rigid, inflexible, or contested ideologies that we are reluctant to change for fear that doing so will invalidate everything we believe.
And if that happens, we fear that we will descend into chaos because we have eliminated out "established" models and have no completed ones to replace them. It hits too close to home, you might say, and our racial vanity is at too great a risk for comfort.
 
drew70 said:
Getting back to the original post that Joby quoted...Isn't it funny how bitching becomes more acceptable when it's labeled as a "rant." I have a hard time finding sympathy for somebody who blames the world for their problems. Lady, whoever you are, get a job, deal with your issues, and quit your bitching.

I never cease to be amazed at the lack of compassion people hold for one another these days. Does this apply to the thousands (if not millions) of others in this very same situation? I'd rather her rant or bi**h as you call it, than for her to take a gun to her former coworkers, kill a bunch of folks, then take herself out like many have done before her.

I'm glad you and others find such a simple method to dismiss her and others like her (many others). Hope it never happens to you. If it does, just quit your bi**hing and get over it!:sowrong:
 
MrMacphisto said:
Drew, we may disagree on a lot of things, but this is one issue I totally agree with you on.... lol

While you are in agreement with Drew, consider this. The person who ranted or bit*hed on this initial thread is female. Every person from disgruntled postal workers to Columbine High to the I271 shooter that has committed multiple homicides and injured more is MALE!

Maybe those men were told to just get over it too many times, so they did and took a whole lot of innocent people with them. Once again, I'd rather see a thousand rants on bulletin boards if it saves one life of a person at the hands of someone who has held their feelings in for far too long.

:sowrong:
 
kis123 said:
While you are in agreement with Drew, consider this. The person who ranted or bit*hed on this initial thread is female. Every person from disgruntled postal workers to Columbine High to the I271 shooter that has committed multiple homicides and injured more is MALE!

Maybe those men were told to just get over it too many times, so they did and took a whole lot of innocent people with them. Once again, I'd rather see a thousand rants on bulletin boards if it saves one life of a person at the hands of someone who has held their feelings in for far too long.

:sowrong:
Oh that's a great viewpoint, Kis. Here's another one. Maybe those MALES went on killing sprees because they were psychotic, homocidal maniacs. Are you actually suggesting that these crimes are justified? That maybe if we'd just been a little sympathetic, they might have changed their minds?? If these people needed help, there are plenty of resources available, most of them paid for by the rest of us who coincidentally have problems as well, but guess what. We take responsibility for them and DEAL with them, instead of blaming the world, society, and circumstances.
 
There are many times when someone (like the lady who wrote the passage Jo quoted) can work themselves into the ground with the effort of trying to get a job, bring up the kids, find a better home, etc. It's not a question of effort though. Some people get reward for comparitively little effort, while others struggle for years and get nothing but blisters. While I believe it's true that everyone creates the reality they live in by their actions, I think many could do with adjusting the wavelength of their efforts, rather than the power. A little altered direction can work wonders.

So someone could b*itch about their plight and have done more work to get out of it than a millionaire did to get their stash. Perhaps the only difference would have been the focus?
 
drew70 said:
Oh that's a great viewpoint, Kis. Here's another one. Maybe those MALES went on killing sprees because they were psychotic, homocidal maniacs. Are you actually suggesting that these crimes are justified? That maybe if we'd just been a little sympathetic, they might have changed their minds?? If these people needed help, there are plenty of resources available, most of them paid for by the rest of us who coincidentally have problems as well, but guess what. We take responsibility for them and DEAL with them, instead of blaming the world, society, and circumstances.


First of all, NO ONE ESPECIALLY ME, is saying society is the cause of these problems! People are responsible for their actions even when society says they're not. But yes a little compassion wouldn't hurt and it doesn't cost anything.

It's still true that males have harder times with emotional issues than females whether you like it or not! Women are more experienced with expressing emotion than men are. Women are not taught they're not supposed to cry as children and you don't hear anyone calling them sissies or punks if they do. If you don't think this stuff adds up, interview some of the most vicious men in jail right now and you'll find out that this mess started as children taught to hold in emotions and it went from there!

The woman in this post isn't blaming ANYONE for her plight, but is also tired of getting blamed for something she isn't responsible for. You're totally missing the point. With all the garbage on the Internet these days, I'd rather hear her rant than the other lies and propaganda that is sweeping cyberspace!

My words have probably fallen on deaf ears. You aren't the first, and you won't be the last. I personally could care less what conclusion you come to and you're entitled to believe whatever you want. I'm not here to change your mind, but I will stand by what I believe to you and anyone else. I certainly hope it NEVER happens to you or someone you hold dear. Then again, that may probably be the only time you may understand how serious a problem this is...when it happens to you.
 
Drew,
I agree that people should pull themselves up by their bootstraps and move on. Haven't we all been in a place where we've had to do the same??

That doesn't change the fact that sometimes there are extenuating circumstances that prohibit such. Or in the very least make a bit harder than some might be willing to admit because it might create a situation where they could possibly feel inclined to help and don't want to because it's "not my fault." Just a couple of reasons?
They may be health related. They may be motivation related. (Or lack of motivation I'd say at times.) It may be a pride issue. (Pride runs rampant here on the TMF so that's an easy one to dig.) It may be a limited supply and demand where the costs to relocate are beyond what one can afford, so they wither in one spot. It may be a death of a spouse or partner. It may be a child who has a school system willing to work with problems they have, and the parents can't justify the traumatic results of relocating the child. It could be that you have $75K in student loans from that degree you earned, and you still have to pay them back even though you're flipping burgers at McD's for minimum wage. There are all sorts of sad reasons people don't just seem to make it.

Or how about another scenario entirely?
My best friend does work full time. She is also in college fulltime to try to better her life and avoid the Walmarts and McDonalds of the world. She also raises a daughter alone because the dad walked out on them. Thus reducing a two income home to a one income home. Unforutnately, the mortgage, care ntoes, insurance and a variety of other things did not get cut in half. This put her a situation where she IS tyring ot better herself... is NOT bitching all the time....IS paying taxes, and still must rely on the system. Infortunate thing is that she'd have more money in her pocket to spend on her kid, and more time to spend with her kid to make her a better person if she just went onto welfare. Where's the sense? I think THAT is more the reason for the bitching than someone who just refuses to get a job. Working your fingers to the bone just to have nothing to show for it entitles one to bitch.

For those lucky enough to be all alone in the world without obligation or inclination to develope obligation to another person, it's all well and fine to say "get over it." Some people must interact with others. Some people must provide a certain standard of living for their families. Some people work their asses off for the people they care about and have nothing at the end of the day but sore muscles and depression. I feel for them. I don't have solutions....but I feel for them.

The rest can go back and bicker among themselves about the political parties and whose fault it is. Frankly, I've yet to see Republicans OR Democrats fix the problems with their times in office, so Mr. Pot...meet Mr. Kettle.

Just three more sense....
Jo
 
Amnesiac, thanks for pointing out the complexity of most societal issues. It's always a good thing to encourage people to think less in terms of black-and-white and more in shades of grey.

Kis123, I normally tend to agree with you but not this time around.... Well, I have to ask; since when did this become a gender issue? So what if it was a woman as opposed to a man that bitched in the previous rant? I try to keep things unrelated to gender, since I feel that the only solution to sexism is similar to the solution to racism. We should be not only colorblind, but also genderblind.

When it comes to the "emotional issues" topic you mentioned in your last post, I have a few queries for you. While I agree that it has been proven that men tend to be more violent than women in their ways of dealing with personal problems, I wouldn't go so far as to say that women deal with them better. If you believe that they do, then how come more women than men have been documented with emotional and psychological problems? You could try the easy way out by saying that women seek help more often, but I think the reason is more complicated than that. Women obviously have to deal with far more hormones than men, and in addition to this, most societies are patriarchal. Many pressures are put on women by society itself, but if you'll notice, many (if not most) of these pressures were instituted by themselves. Does a guy pay that much attention to every little detail of your outfit? Does a guy typically analyze every minuscule part of your psyche? Do guys talk about women behind their backs as much as women gossip about each other? I think not... If you want to bring this topic to a gender issue, then I think women need to start treating each other better before they can compare men and women on emotional issues.

As a final note, believe me when I say that I actually agree with kis123 and JoBelle that the situation the previously mentioned woman elaborated about deserves some sympathy. There are simply details in the rant that hint at the woman's decadence. "My kids are wearing the same damned clothes that they wore to school last year. THANKFUL? BE THANKFUL that they are not NAKED? They shouldn't have to be wearing last years clothes." Excuse me, but there are plenty of people in this country that don't have the time to complain about how old their children's clothes are. Some families are lucky to have any clothes for their children. Most of the immigrants she puts down in the rant are probably much harder workers than she is, considering that they had to probably escape a desperate situation in their original country. Don't get me wrong; I think that illegal immigration is a problem that must be stopped, but the desperation of the majority of the world has brought us into this situation. In conclusion, she should be THANKFUL that she's not as poor or desperate as those immigrants she loathes....
 
MrMacphisto said:
Amnesiac, thanks for pointing out the complexity of most societal issues. It's always a good thing to encourage people to think less in terms of black-and-white and more in shades of grey.

Kis123, I normally tend to agree with you but not this time around.... Well, I have to ask; since when did this become a gender issue? So what if it was a woman as opposed to a man that bitched in the previous rant? I try to keep things unrelated to gender, since I feel that the only solution to sexism is similar to the solution to racism. We should be not only colorblind, but also genderblind.

When it comes to the "emotional issues" topic you mentioned in your last post, I have a few queries for you. While I agree that it has been proven that men tend to be more violent than women in their ways of dealing with personal problems, I wouldn't go so far as to say that women deal with them better. If you believe that they do, then how come more women than men have been documented with emotional and psychological problems? You could try the easy way out by saying that women seek help more often, but I think the reason is more complicated than that. Women obviously have to deal with far more hormones than men, and in addition to this, most societies are patriarchal. Many pressures are put on women by society itself, but if you'll notice, many (if not most) of these pressures were instituted by themselves. Does a guy pay that much attention to every little detail of your outfit? Does a guy typically analyze every minuscule part of your psyche? Do guys talk about women behind their backs as much as women gossip about each other? I think not... If you want to bring this topic to a gender issue, then I think women need to start treating each other better before they can compare men and women on emotional issues.

As a final note, believe me when I say that I actually agree with kis123 and JoBelle that the situation the previously mentioned woman elaborated about deserves some sympathy. There are simply details in the rant that hint at the woman's decadence. "My kids are wearing the same damned clothes that they wore to school last year. THANKFUL? BE THANKFUL that they are not NAKED? They shouldn't have to be wearing last years clothes." Excuse me, but there are plenty of people in this country that don't have the time to complain about how old their children's clothes are. Some families are lucky to have any clothes for their children. Most of the immigrants she puts down in the rant are probably much harder workers than she is, considering that they had to probably escape a desperate situation in their original country. Don't get me wrong; I think that illegal immigration is a problem that must be stopped, but the desperation of the majority of the world has brought us into this situation. In conclusion, she should be THANKFUL that she's not as poor or desperate as those immigrants she loathes....

I NEVER SAID IT WAS A GENDER ISSUE! I simply made an observation. An observation that is very true. Sorry, whether you like it or not, the facts speak for themselves. Since men have more pride issues than women (I think it's attached to the ego thing) men are more prone to stuff their emotions to the point of explosion. More women are documented with emotional problems because they are more willing to seek out the help. They don't have the same pride/ego things going on, and it's more accepted by society. If more men spoke out and sought out help, I'd personally welcome them with open arms. Unfortunately, this is not the case.

I also noticed more men gossiping around the water cooler these days as opposed to directly dealing with the person or thing that is bothering them in the workplace. As far as who treats the other better, men or women, the gap is closing quickly. I'm not going to start whining about my words being twisted and misconstrued, because people come to the conclusions they desire, not necessarily the right ones.

I was merely attempting to point out that people's cirstumstances are different and telling someone just to get a job and get over it is by far inappropriate and insufficient advice. In fact, it's not advice at all! It lacks consideration and compassion for someone other than onesself (which has become a huge problem since the 1990s).

Oh, and as far as her comments about her kids clothes are concerned, depending upon the ages of her children, they may not be even able to wear last years clothes. My daughter grew 10 inches in three years. Think she could have worn any of her last years clothing? We have to buy her shoes every 3-6months because she grows out of them and wears them out even more quickly because she plays basketball.

I won't even get on the subject of my own life's mess. It's been going on for almost three years. I've raised my disabled son to adulthood virtually by myself after his biological father deserted us to go take care of himself, and my ex walked away because he couldn't handle the pressure. Did I have the so-called luxury of walking away from my responsibilities to my children? Someone had to stand by this child with each courtroom appeareance, each school suspension (near expulsion), and each trip to the psychiatric hospital and tell him he was loved even though he was putting me through hell. I had to figure out how to take care of my kids when I couldn't hold a job down because of my son's problems. Do you know how much my daughter was affected and traumatized over what was happening to her brother and her family? I had to go on public assistance and disability for over a year until he was finally placed in a group home facility where he is loved and cared for by professionals so he can learn to function back in the free world. And some of these so-called professionals told me to just get over it and learn how to handle my out of control, learning disabled, depressed, and mentally handicapped child and stop trying to find excuses to not raise him myself. I also eventually allowed my daughter to live with her father so she could learn to live without trauma or drama, have some friends and a social life, and not fear violence or embarrassment at the hands of her brother who simply just couldn't help himself. Did I deserve that kind of treatment from all of these so-called professionals? Certainly not! And neither does this woman either.

Once again, I am not here to change your minds. At this point, I nearly consider that to be an impossible task. Maybe it comes down to this: If you don't have anything positive to say on an issue especially one you've never experienced yourself, maybe it would be best not to say anything.
 
ok.. I'm going to ignore any further speculation about gender...

Kis123, you did point out a detail I missed about the age of the child, but of course, we don't know if that was the reason for her complaint.

Lack of compassion and self-centeredness have been a problem with human nature since long before the 90s, but I know what you're saying. Eastern culture has its own share of problems, but one thing we could learn from them is putting more of an emphasis on the community than on one's self. In many ways, the individual is overrated in this culture, and attempts to get people to care about and cooperate with each other do seem to get more difficult by the year. It's sad when a national tragedy has to occur to get us to think like a community, and then the main repercussions of that togetherness end up becoming a golden opportunity for the government to strip away our rights.

Kis123, I can see now how you identified with that woman, and quite frankly, you sound more entitled to this rant than she did, given the limited amount of info we have on her. However, there has to be a balance between how much compassion is shown by a community and how much someone should refrain from becoming a perpetual "victim." If you constantly think the world is against you, you'll never fit in society and will generally loathe your existence. In the case of some people, maybe suicide is the best option. I've seen people in hospitals that, if I were in their situation, I'd choose euthanasia (despite its so-called illegal status). While I can't say I'm in a situation as difficult as yours, I can say that you seem stronger than many (if not most) people in your situation.... If you don't mind my asking, what has your son been diagnosed with?
 
MrMacphisto said:
Kis123, I can see now how you identified with that woman, and quite frankly, you sound more entitled to this rant than she did, given the limited amount of info we have on her. However, there has to be a balance between how much compassion is shown by a community and how much someone should refrain from becoming a perpetual "victim." If you constantly think the world is against you, you'll never fit in society and will generally loathe your existence. In the case of some people, maybe suicide is the best option. I've seen people in hospitals that, if I were in their situation, I'd choose euthanasia (despite its so-called illegal status). While I can't say I'm in a situation as difficult as yours, I can say that you seem stronger than many (if not most) people in your situation.... If you don't mind my asking, what has your son been diagnosed with? [/B]

First of all, I totally agree with you regarding balance. I think people sometimes go through a "poor me" syndrome when troubles become heavy. It's natural to feel as if you are the only one going through problems. I'm still trying to recover financially from the experience, and employers aren't making my situation any better. We live in an ecomony where employers have power they shouldn't. I was let go from a job just because the employer didn't like me and assumed that I wasn't happy in her employ. Did I come to work every day and contribute to her profits? Yes! Did I follow federal and state laws and conform to company policies? Yes! Did my customers like me and treat me with professional respect? Yes! So why did she go off the deep end and either fire or allow 14 of the best staff members I had ever worked with to leave? I haven't a clue!

I don't say sit at home and feel sorry for yourself. I have been there and done that. That doesn't feed my kids and after while, you get sick of yourself. At least you should anyway. I haven't given up by a long shot and I certainly don't want to end up back on public assistance. They treat you worse than a dog on the street. What's worse, if it weren't for the down and out and downtrodden, these blockheads wouldn't even have a job!

My son was diagnosed with autism at age three. He is very high-functioning and also has Asbergers's syndrome (might not be spelled right) which causes him to be delusional to his mental limitations. He sees himself just like the rest of us, only different to his peers. In theory, this would be okay, but in fact, he does have many limitations. He was also prone to bouts of mania due to a reaction in medication. He thought he could go anywhere, and do anything.

My story could go on and on. Let's just say his misadventures cost a lot of money and property damage. He was also prone to running away. In my state, regardless of what happens the parent is responsible for the child's actions. Once again, this is great in theory, but when a parent has done all they can for a mentally handicapped unruly child who is out control, it is very difficult for the parent to claim total responsibility. Believe me, when I was pregant with him, I wasn't expecting what I got. And he didn't fall out of my womb with an instruction manual, if you know what I mean! Nevertheless, I took responsibility and went through the process. It was hard as hell, but we made it through. He'll be graduating from high school this June and I'm glad he made it!

I found out many things about myself during my trials. I realized I could lay on the couch and cry for only so long, then I had to do something. I made the phone calls and went to the appointments and got the turndowns for help. Finally, someone realized that he needed help and the so-called professionals weren't giving it. She became my champion and got him in the group home where he belonged and I have God and her to thank for it. Did I mention the part where the family rebelled against me because I was placing him in a group home? You remember the same people who abandoned me when I needed help with him ended up being the same ones fighting against me. The group home list was about 100 kids deep and my kid got picked within a month of being placed on it. What does that tell you?

Well, my story had a decent ending. The writer of the rant will have one as well as long as she doesn't give up.
 
Seems a simple venting is being used to back up disagreement. I'm sure this woman did not type that rant with the thought, "Does this short bit of writing represent my true self and all conditions that are happening in my life?" Seems more like she was having a bad day and wanted to complain. It was the essense of the complaint, not the details that compelled me to post it here.

It is being taken far too literally.

As far as her desire to have new clothes on her kids, it would seem that if she's selling her beloved posessions on E-bay, then her kids are more than likely in second-hand or hand-me-down clothes already. Since the other things I read at the website were written to a newspaper, I don't get the impression that they were all written from home computers....which would support the idea that she isn't exactly tossing around money on such trivial things as internet. Far too many times I've heard people bitch and whine about being unemployed and how hard life is, but they then get online (which costs money last time I checked) and talk about how they went out to dinner to get away from the stress. Must not be suffering too badly. Most parents can tell you that if you try to squeeze your child into last year's clothing, you're going to have an uncomfortable kid. My son grew 3 inches and 2 sizes in the last year. I'd be bitching if he had to wear year old clothes as well.

Like I said, it was the feeling behind the "rant," "gripe," "bitch," or whatever you call it that brought my eyes to it. I could care less about the details because no two person's are the same anyway.

J.
 
JoBelle said:
I consider myself lucky in that I didn't actually write that. It was something I found on a website this morning while looking up unemployment figures for my area for the quarter. I thought it was something to be shared.

JoBelle... You say the rant is from a newspaper... But first, you mentioned it was from a website. I'm not trying to split hairs here, but your first explanation of the rant was a tad misleading. Now that you've explained more of the possible context of the rant, I can see what you're saying, but I think you care more about the details of the rant than you're letting on if you're willing to devote a post to defending her view. There's nothing wrong with expanding upon a rant in a philosophical sense.... lol
 
BigJim said:
"You lend money that doesn't exist and then charge interest on it."

When someone borrows money of the bank, the bank doesn't actually give them any money. It gives them figures on a computer screen. That's all they frigging do! Nothing more. :cry1: This all started when money lenders started issuing notes of credit instead of actual gold and silver, back in the middle ages after ursury was made legal. Merchants and so on didn't want to lug the precious metal around with them all the time, because it was awkward and tempting to raiders. So they give the money to someone who deals in money (at the time the Knights Templar were the foremost gits for this) and they'd get a certificate of credit in return. Eventually these pieces of paper were exchanged between people as if they were actual currency. Being the clever bastards they are, these money people decided to lend money they didn't actually have, by giving people worthless notes and then they'd think they were rich. The buggers were issuing notes ten times more than they had actual money in their vaults, so the papers were bloody worthless, yet they were still valued as hard currency and people were beggared because of the interest they had to pay. And this is exactly the same that goes on today, except that it's done with figures on a screen, instead of ink on parchment! A country like Brazil has the third highest rate of international infant malnutrition, and yet 80% of it's exports are food!!! And we frigging stand for this!!! The whole damn financial system is artificial and the reason it exists is because it suits thieving bastards who don't care if your kid goes to college, if your house gets reposessed or if 100,000 Brazillian children die of starvation. Even more fictional is the lie that the economy has to grow every year to keep us stable, when it seems pretty obvious to me that ever rising consumption is the quickest way to hell. What would be much better, is finding a level of economic consumption that puts enough wealth in circulation so that everyone who can be bothered to get off their arse and work for it can have a good life, and keeping it stable. This obsession with continuous growth is yet another distraction to take us away from what we truly need.
Jim, what you describe is the backbone of any modern economy. I doubt that the industrial revolution could have happened without the credit-generating process, much less all the little things we enjoy so much, like cars, TV, computers etc.

But you're certainly right about the problems of a growth-dependent economy. Growth has its natural limit, as nature proves everyday. One of the snags is the production cost/wages spiral: Whenever the cost for products rise, the population needs more money to buy them, which results in higher wages and to increasing cost again. It's a dog chasing its own tail.

Somewhere on the way, the labor cost becomes so high that industries must find other ways for production: automatization, streamlining, outsourcing. This results in an increased number of unemployed people, which can't afford the products anymore. Thus, the market actually shrinks with every lay-off, and companies must start to gobble up each other for a higher market share, the only way to continue production. The alternative is globalization to develop new markets, but this doesn't solve the problem. It just carries the problem to more countries, involving them in the mess and procrastinating the inevitable end. That's the phase we're in now.

Hand in hand with this problem comes another one: The increasingly short-sightedness of economy. All companies have to produce their figures quarterly, and the CEOs always act under the pressure of the next shareholder balance. This leads to a a devastatingly shortsighted orientation of investments. Visionary long-term projects can't get realizated because they mess up the next few balance-sheets, the shares drop in value, and the next bigger competitor finds a good chance for a takeover. Which in turn usually leads to more lay-offs, and a further shrinking of the total market.

This is bound to end in a big crash some day not too far away, to which the "Black Friday" around 1930 looks like a picnic.

I haven't got the solution for this dilemma, I just recognize this disastrous development. In the days of sophisticated computer simulations, it should be possible to find out new economical structures, but those people who can finance this extensive research are the same ones who profit from the present system, and they'll prevent such research with all their power. :sowrong:
 
Kis, for whatever reason, you seem determined to see this as gender issue. It's not. I would feel the same way if the ranter had been male. I don't in any way mean to suggest that such bitching is heard more often from either gender. I realize the phrase "bitch" is female in it's noun form, but in it's verb form it is asexual. Men and women can bitch alike.

Secondly, I have been in financial straits. I was laid off from a job after 23 years of employment. This came right after buying a new house, so the timing couldn't have been worse. It occurred at a time when telecom engineers like myself were being layed off by the tens of thousands. The rest of the barely surviving telecom companies were using resume's for toilet paper. I couldn't even get a returned phone call when just two years before, I had recruiters and headhunters begging me to jump ship and join their startup company, offering me astronomical salaries and stock options. My situation was actually worse than I'm letting on, but my point is simply that I do understand what it's like to wonder where the money is going to come from. Fortunately I was never stupid enough to have kids, which allowed me to squeak through the bad times...barely. Ultimately, I found another job, doing something other than what I had been grooming myself for. That's the breaks. You can bemoan it privately or publically, or you can count your blessings and move on. I chose the latter.

I'll just say this and move on. I'm not unsympathetic to this woman's plight. It was the manner of her expression of it to which I took exception. Had this come across more as a plea for help than a bitch session I would have greatly sympathised with her. Yet it seems to me that had she not had a child to raise and care for, her situation wouldn't be so exacerbated. I think people (particularly young couples) are way too quick to go ahead and have kids. They don't understand the things that not only can happen, but very likely will happen, with regards to divorce, seperation, etc. They don't think ahead. They just think, "oh let's name our kids Brandon and Britney and we'll paint the bedrooms blue and pink!" Then a few years down the road, a divorce comes their way, maybe with a layoff just for good measure. And voila, we have our website/newspaper ranter wondering why life sucks so bad. The answer is so simple, people miss it altogether. Don't have kids.
 
Drew,

Did you see the last two posts I made prior to posting your last? Just in case you didn't, I want to share something with you:

I NEVER MADE THIS A GENDER ISSUE!! I simply made an observation. Nothing more or less. It's still true whether we agree or not.

Like yourself, I have lived through a myriad of financial, emotional, and physical difficulties with both myself and my children. If you want to fill yourself in with the details, you can read the previous posts I made. I did not pull myself by the bootstraps, get a job, and move on. I spent months (and years) going through a painful process to get out of the mess I was in. I had to do it alone because I was abandoned to do it myself or it wouldn't get done! I am not looking for a national holiday named after me either, I'm just stating a few facts to relate with the initial spirit of the thread.

I know how it feels to stand in line and get treated like garbage because I wasn't able to keep a job. But I payed enough taxes into this system to withdraw from it anytime I need it. If you say you've been in a bad situation, should'nt you exhibit a little more compassion than your initial post? So what, she ranted and bi**hed. The Internet has far worse to share with the world than that. I believe she'll realize that her rant was just what it was, a rant. That won't put food on her table or clothes on her kids' backs. She'll have to get up, dust herself off, and try other things until something works.

Since it seems that you haven't read the posts, please review them. If you feel the same way after reading them as you do now, you just do. I'm not here to change your mind, only to state what is on my mind. My comments were observations not meant to offend but thoughts on a particular matter.
 
MrMacphisto said:
JoBelle... You say the rant is from a newspaper... But first, you mentioned it was from a website. I'm not trying to split hairs here, but your first explanation of the rant was a tad misleading. Now that you've explained more of the possible context of the rant, I can see what you're saying, but I think you care more about the details of the rant than you're letting on if you're willing to devote a post to defending her view.

At running the risk of sounding condescending, I guess I should clarify myself a bit and say that it was a newspaper's website. Since we ARE splitting hairs, let me say that I don't know if it was a hand written letter that was mailed in, or typed via the internet.🙄

I've "devoted" over two thousand posts to a variety of things in the years I've posted on the TMF. That fact that I found a few sentences worthy of comment does not somehow change the fact that I thought the original something to be shared simply because it struck a nerve. I stand by the fact that the details of the original "rant" were simply the human side of the economic issue coming through. I'm sure there were many more variables that were left out, and yet I wasn't bothering to bring them to the surface. With all of the nastiness that we see on this board regarding issues so large they can't be fully appreciated by the average person, I thought it would be enlightening to see something posted that was base and familiar to many.

Don't read too much into things, dear.

You'll notice that I stepped out of the conversation when it veered left and right to embrace a variety of points. I only popped back in because it seemed the spirit of it was being lost in the bickering and I thought I'd make a few counterpoints.

Oh, one last thing....people who think not having children are a solution to some of those woes...well, they are the folks who should not have them. Yep. Spot on. Don't procreate. YOU are not missing out on anything. For those of us who are tyring to adopt to make out families bigger *GASP*, there is a whole other string of thoughts that just aren't applicable in this thread.
Jo
 
drew70 said:
I think people (particularly young couples) are way too quick to go ahead and have kids. They don't understand the things that not only can happen, but very likely will happen, with regards to divorce, seperation, etc. They don't think ahead. They just think, "oh let's name our kids Brandon and Britney and we'll paint the bedrooms blue and pink!" Then a few years down the road, a divorce comes their way, maybe with a layoff just for good measure. And voila, we have our website/newspaper ranter wondering why life sucks so bad. The answer is so simple, people miss it altogether. Don't have kids. [/B]

The first part of your post ticked me off so badly, I actually missed this. I'm trying to respect JoBelle and not continue to get off the spirit of the thread, but this definitely needs to be addressed.

It is the natural order of things to desire to marry and have children. That is born in us (most of us anyway) and should not be suppressed because we live in a sometimes sucky world.

As I said in previous posts, my oldest child is disabled. I also wasn't married when I conceived him. That happens sometimes when a woman's 99% effective birth control method goes awry. That 1% is now 18 years old. I had a choice, should I abort or give away my responsibilites, or should I grow up and deal with them? I chose the latter. Yes, there were times when I wish I didn't, but I knew I was just in pain and didn't really want to be without him. I have absolutely no regrets for having children. I just shouldn't have had them with the two knuckleheads I did. Love the kids, the men sucked bricks!

I'm not going to open the door to the age old question of kids or no kids. You're adult enough to know if you are the parental type. But don't tell people not to do what comes naturally to them...get married and have kids. That's not the solution. The solution is to get able-bodied people back to work so they can raise their families and feel like they mean something. Telling people who are already struggling with raising their families they shouldn't have had kids is like closing the barn door after the horse ran out.

This goes back to my initial post. Too many people lack compassion in the world today. They don't think before they speak, they don't care about the impact their words carry to others. People have become cold and antisetpic towards their fellow man. No one asked for a handout, just a listening ear and some understanding.
 
Reading these posts have made me to ponder a great many things about my own financial situation. I thank God that I'm in the military. Even though there are times when I wonder if I'm in the right place, or having doubts about whether or not I belong where I do, I know there are things about my job I would not be willing to give up, and right now, I've got what is probably the most stable job one can have in the entire country.

-I don't have to worry about employers firing me for no particular reason, because no actions may be taken against a Marine unless all causes for concern (if there are any)are documented on paper. The chain of command is utilized completely for reviewing such instances, and any loose ends will result in a dismissal of the case. Granted, there are politics involved sometimes, but I'm thankful that I couldn't be fired because someone else didn't think I was content even though I generated results.

-I struggle with bills every month to the point of tearing out what little hair I'm allowed to keep, just like many others. It always seems that "There's too much month left at the end of the money," as the statement goes, but I realize that as long as there's always money for cigarettes, beer, and a few other trivial luxuries, I can still work to improve my situation, especially since I get paid extra to pay for my house and my food. Any difficulties I encounter financially are my responsibility, and I don't even factor the economy into the mix. It does irk me a little bit though, that my wife and I can make just enough money to put us into a higher tax bracket and have us paying when we file, when a couple years ago at slightly less income we were getting refunds. That's the ironic thing. I was better off financially as a Lance Corporal than I am as a Sergeant. Did I become more foolish with age? 😕

-I do not want to have children anytime soon, if at all. This is a constant source of arguments between my wife and I, but I do not want to bring a child into this world who I would not feel fit to raise. People have told me this never happens, but I want to be able to raise a child when I'm completely stable, financially.

I had more thoughts to contribute, but I lost my train of thought. I'm not even sure if there was anything in here substantial enough to benefit anyone, but reading everyone's posts did get my wheels turning and reminded me that I've got it pretty well in my job. The military's not too bad a choice.
 
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