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same-sex marriages on going Battle

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Kalamos said:
And once again, you failed to comment on my previous question. This thread is just becoming a personal fight.

A fight on beliefs, rather than on real needs - such as the need for gay couples to get recognition for their rights.

Would someone reply on real questions, for a change, rather than quote centuries old books and telling us what God thinks?

Your question comes down to this - If there is a God, then gay people are wrong and they should not be allowed to marry. If there is no God, then it makes no difference what they do. That's why the quoting of the centuries old book.


Kalamos said:
BBR, do you know you are sinning by just coming to this site?

Are you aware that onanism is considered Foolish or even downright Wrong by many christians?

You're right this time Kalamos. We're all sinning by coming here and we're just as wrong as you for being here. All BBR is trying to do is give you information that may save you. It's entirely up to you what you do with it.
 
Wow! Look at all the stuff I missed!

As far as religion goes, I read an article in a paper about a man who used to be a pastor at a large church with over 2,000 members (I'm sorry, I forgot his name and I don't have the article anymore). After a few years of preaching there he became disinfranchised with the whole organized religion process. He still believed in God just as much as he ever did, and he still loved Jesus, but he felt the message was being lost on the congregation. When he looked at the crowd all he saw was a see of compacent faces, people who only came to church to feed their illusion that they alone are saved and they are better than everyone else. So he quit and moved to Portland. When he got there he started up a brand new church of his own devising, the difference is he's preaching at punk rock clubs to about 60 or so people in the crowd. Most are punk rock kids, some are your typical church going fare, but when he looks in the crowd he sees people who just want to learn about Christ and find inner peace through him regardless of their own race, sexual orientation, or status in life. Anyone and everyone is welcome to come in.

But something he said stuck with me and proved to me that not all Christians are self important, pompous, sheep. He said "If you are alive, you deserve to be loved." It doesn't get any more simpler than that. Everything else is pure garbage.

And if Jesus were to come to me in a dream I'd look him dead in the face and say "I like you but your fan club is out of control". He'd agree.
 
"And if Jesus were to come to me in a dream I'd look him dead in the face and say "I like you but your fan club is out of control". He'd agree."

I liked this one. 🙂

Initially, I didn't feel like replying now: then, I found myself typing and typing and... guess what... typing. 😀


So, let's try and keep this as short and quick as possible.

Since I am baptized, I am catholic, and I can call upon a priest when I need him - such as on death's bed.

Being a normal person, on the other hand, I do have personal beliefs: and studying religion - and christianity - I came to believe that many, many things most ppl hold as sacred, are really not.

It's not a matter of lacking respect or faith: it's just simple research. And I've been taught by priests - who were well aware that some dogmas weren't such. 🙂

Many, many things we take for granted about religion - and christianity's various confessions - actually were a result of historic events. So, by knowing those events, you realize some of them weren't God-inspired. They just happened for pratical reasons.

Given this, I fail to see how God - if He/She/It exists as we believe Him/Her/it to be - could really get upset at human sexual habits.

Now, back to Gibby's point: being catholic and being agnostic doesn't clash. 😉
I'm just a non-attending catholic. Or a bad catholic. 😀
You choose.

Personally, I follow an ethical compass - which isn't really much different from a religious moral compass. It just swaps prayers for a mild dose of generic tolerance. 😉


About the Pope, he's a nice polish fellow, even if a bit on the older side, I'd say. He'd really deserve some rest...

Oh, yeah, I don't feel any "Righter" than anybody here. And Gibby is right [with lower case 😀 ] about the Pope speaking "ex cathedra", that is from his seat about religious matters.

Besides, I suppose Pope wouldn't like gay marriages... But there are some many issues he wouldn't like. Somehow, ppl listen to him only when he speaks about sexual activities - not when he speaks about peace and war or poor countries' debts.

And no, I don't particularly care about what the Pope says. Yes, I told ya, I am a BAD catholic. 😉
Am I a bad person too? Your call.

Maybe I'll listen to that indian preacher, after all. Indian accent can be quite... peculiar. 😀

...

What about my previous posts? They were just a paradox.
They went to show that putting matters on religious terms only, ultimately leads to radicalize positions. 😉

"My church is better than yours"... And since mine is the oldest - not counting jews 😀 - I could easily claim I was Right just because "my" Pope is. 🙂

That's why I don't comment on religious beliefs, but I DO disagree when dogmas take precedence.
Rules can be strict, but they need to be applied on real ppl - so common sense should prevail.

On this particular matter my opinion is quite clear: uninvolved parties shouldn't dictate about consenting adults' sexual conduct.

I don't really think God will object - if we want to involve Him/Her/It again. I don't think God will matter, since He [etc.] is considered pure love, and love doesn't discriminate.

People do.

So, is really God homophobic?
Or is it just the flock? 🙂


I'll gladly elaborate on any point I left unanswered.
Just consider my posts as my own opinion, and if you don't like it, just toss it aside. 😉

I don't want to convince anybody, here. 😉
I'm only reasoning about a principle.

Oh, and I don't consider "jacking off" a sin. I consider it a cheap past-time. 😀 😀 😀


Reg's guys. [And tnx for liking my sinful pics. 😉 ]
 
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gibby59 said:
You're right this time Kalamos. We're all sinning by coming here and we're just as wrong as you for being here.

Oh god... let's not start the self-hating guilt trip bullshit... If you think that coming here is a sin, then just leave. I know if I felt that way, I would....

By the way, if Jesus came to me in a dream, it wouldn't change anything. It's a freakin' dream! Now, if Jesus showed up at my apartment, and I said, "Prove your divinity" and made a small cut on my arm, and then he healed the wound with his hands in one of those "glowing" holy lights you always see in the movies.... then and only then.... would I believe in Christ. If Moses and a bunch of other people in the Old Testament got off easy by having "burning bushes" and the like, why don't we? Faith must have been much easier when God was more vocal....
 
gibby59 said:
You're right this time Kalamos. We're all sinning by coming here and we're just as wrong as you for being here.

Oh god... let's not start the self-hating guilt trip bullshit... If you think that coming here is a sin, then just leave. I know if I felt that way, I would....

By the way, if Jesus came to me in a dream, it wouldn't change anything. It's a freakin' dream! Now, if Jesus showed up at my apartment, and I said, "Prove your divinity" and made a small cut on my arm, and then he healed the wound with his hands in one of those "glowing" holy lights you always see in the movies.... then and only then.... would I believe in Christ. If Moses and a bunch of other people in the Old Testament got off easy by having "burning bushes" and the like, why don't we? Faith must have been much easier when God was more vocal....
 
CrypticSlayer said:
Oh god... let's not start the self-hating guilt trip bullshit... If you think that coming here is a sin, then just leave. I know if I felt that way, I would....

By the way, if Jesus came to me in a dream, it wouldn't change anything. It's a freakin' dream! Now, if Jesus showed up at my apartment, and I said, "Prove your divinity" and made a small cut on my arm, and then he healed the wound with his hands in one of those "glowing" holy lights you always see in the movies.... then and only then.... would I believe in Christ. If Moses and a bunch of other people in the Old Testament got off easy by having "burning bushes" and the like, why don't we? Faith must have been much easier when God was more vocal....


Non Belivers CrypticSlayer don't belive that we have all sinned. because they love the Darkness more then the light. because sin feels Good to them because thats all we as humans know is sin. We as christians even know that. But it all comes down to what you go with your sins and relize that you have done wrong and Gone against God and ask and pray for forgiveness from Christ for that sin or sins that you have Done. Because once we as chrsitians have confessed that we have sinned and that we have done wrong God takes that away and we become made right in Gods sight again.


and also Who here is going to see the movie The Passion of The Christ?
 
Archived Article

Don't all religions lead to God?
by: Hank Hanegraaff

Why are Christians so arrogant in claiming that they alone possess the truth? Don't all religions lead to God?
A number of people equate religious tolerance with religious truth. Many assume that all religions are basically the same and that all beliefs are equally valid. They picture each religion as having identical faces hidden behind different masks.

However, sound reasoning tells us that all religions are not essentially the same merely because they contain some similarities. A brief survey of a few religions quickly reveals that each has competing, mutually exclusive claims. How, for example, can someone logically square the Hindu teaching that the universe is God with the Muslim belief that Allah, the God of Islam, is distinct from the universe? Thus, religions harbor irreconcilable differences, demonstrating that they cannot all possibly lead to the same God. Logically speaking, they can all be wrong, but they cannot all be right.

We, therefore, need to ask which religion points to the right God and consider how certain its claims really are. Regarding these questions, Christianity towers above the other religions of the world. For instance, while every other religion would have humanity try to reach up to God, Christianity says God reaches down to humanity. In other words, God's favor was obtained for humankind by Christ's life, death, and resurrection, and not by our own human merit (Eph. 2:8-9).

Furthermore, the Lord Jesus, who is God Himself cloaked in human flesh (John 1:1; 14), always backed His pronouncements with His own miracles (John 10:38), the culmination of which was His bodily resurrection from the dead (Matt. 28:6). None of the other religious figures throughout history have ever justified their respective claims with such power and authority. All people, regardless of their religious circumstances, need to hear and heed Christ's message because Jesus pointed to Himself as the only way to God (John 14:6).

Thursday, February 28, 2002
 
Archived Article

Know What You Believe
Breaking News #2 October

As children, many of us played "the gossip game." After forming a line, the child at the beginning would tell his neighbor a story. Then, the narrative would be passed down, with each child having the opportunity to hear and relay the message.
The point to the game was to see how the story had changed by the time it reached the end of the line. Interestingly enough, the final tale was rarely similar to what was said at the beginning.
Sadly, the Gospel can be distorted in the same manner. When Jesus ascended into heaven, He commanded the disciples to spread His Word throughout a lost and sinful world. His message of truth was untainted, one hundred percent pure.
They followed Jesus' command, but, as the Gospel spread, the opportunity for error arose. Wherever the apostles preached, false teachers would quickly follow, instructing the early church to obey legalistic rules and regulations that God Himself did not require.
Two thousand years have passed since Jesus walked the earth. With this inevitable passage of time comes more opportunity for God's truth to be distorted. Teachers from all faiths are prepared to tell you whatever you want to hear. Paul warned Timothy about this when he wrote:

For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine but wanting to have their ears tickled, they will accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance to their own desires, and will turn away their ears from the truth and will turn aside to myths. (2 Timothy 4:3-4)
False doctrine is rampant in our world. We are surrounded by beliefs and guidelines that fail to match up with the litmus test that is the Word of God. The Lord not only wants us to come to know Him as Savior, He also desires that all men "come to the knowledge of the truth" (1 Timothy 2:3-4).
In the Great Commission, Jesus commands His followers to reach the world with His Gospel. But how are we as Christians to spread His Word if we do not understand what we believe?

The Apostle Peter tells Christians to:

Sanctify Christ as Lord in your hearts, always being ready to make a defense to everyone who asks you to give an account for the hope that is in you, yet with gentleness and reverence; and keep a good conscience so that in the thing in which you are slandered, those who revile your good behavior in Christ will be put to shame. (1 Peter 3:15-16)
Even as false doctrine was widespread in Peter's day, he realized that believers would always be tempted with the lure of doctrinal error. In 2 Peter 2:1-3, he says:
But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will also be false teachers among you, who will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing swift destruction upon themselves. Many will follow their sensuality, and because of them the way of the truth will be maligned; and in their greed they will exploit you with false words.
In order to defend our faith from false doctrine, we must first examine our beliefs. We shouldn't read through the Bible only to pull out verses that confirm what we already hold true. Instead, we should take all of what we believe and examine it against the entirety of truth found in the Bible. Are your beliefs firmly set in the Word of God?
If someone asked you, "tell me about the Bible," what would you say? If they asked you why baptism is important, what would you tell them? If you were asked to explain the Trinity, how would you answer?
We should be entrenched and deeply rooted in God's Word, formulating a mental grid of beliefs in our minds. If we understand the Bible's truth, false teaching will not infiltrate this mental grid. God will alert us to error, allowing us to eliminate untruths from our understanding of His Word.
Why should you want to defend your beliefs? The world may tell you that as long as you believe something, then you will be okay. This is not true. When we believe the truth—the Bible—we are:
Prevented from being misled by false doctrine
Protected from those who attack our faith

Prepared to answer those who are honestly seeking truth

Persuasive in our expression and presentation of what we believe

Prosperous in our personal relationship with Christ
We are surrounded by those who are eager to tell us that salvation is based on works and legalistic rules, that Christ was a "great teacher" but not the Son of God, that Jesus is not coming again, and that baptism is the only requirement to being saved.
Rarely will we find someone that believes exactly as we do. However, if their values are not rooted in the Word of God, then they are adhering to false doctrine.
Jude tells us that false teachers are like "clouds without water, carried along by the winds; autumn trees without fruit, doubly dead, uprooted; wild waves of the sea, casting up their own shame like foam; wandering stars, for whom the black darkness has been reserved forever" (Jude 1:12-13).
There are thousands of teachers that are attempting to sell us something that sounds good and appeals to our "sensuality." However, when we are grounded in the principles of the Bible, we can wisely discern the difference between truth and error.
In a world saturated with untruth, let God guide you to all the answers that you seek. Know what you believe!

Friday, October 03, 2003
 
well

BellyButtonsRoc said:
Why are Christians so arrogant in claiming that they alone possess the truth?

Erhm.....i am stated as catholic too baptised and so on 🙂.
Do not know about which one is better, or has THE ultimate truth.
The thing forgotten : usually a priest could not be married and having children. It was quite hypocrite : many priests were and by now it is accepted.
Err i wonder if there are gays married priests ???
Maybe but as the christianity just shows its good sides - hey no kidding.
Do not worry we are here to save you - just give us some more money.
Yes why are christians so arrogant ???
 
Well, ok. It took a while, but I read these posts.
I really felt like skipping them - but I naively thought: hey, may it's something important. It was not.

Why not? Because enough is enough. This is an adult forum. It should be a safe haven and not a fighting ground. And a fighting ground for religion radicals, I might add.

I might respect Gibby's or maniac's point of view. They pretty much stated what they feel and what makes them uneasy. It's something personal too, so I won't discuss on personal feeling.

But BBR does NOT have a point of view. He just pastes bits from his archive.

I could past megs of archived news. And yet they would contain none of my feelings, of my thoughts.

I do NOT care if you can quote good sources. I might care about your feelings. But it's quite clear you have none, since you back up everything with a quoting from a scripture.

Are you trying to flood your "opposition" with words? What about proposing your thoughts?

If you can't word your feelings, once again, step aside. If I wanted to discuss religion I would go and have a chat with a theologist myself.

Besides, this isn't even theology: this is just preaching. And frankly, I have little use for preachers.

If you really endorse what you posted, you should leave Tickle Theater at once. And I mean it.

Unless this forum appeals to your "sensuality" and you can't help but coming here for your own sinful pleasure.

...

Since you believe there is only Light or Darkness, this forum holds nothing useful for you. It's only drawing you nearer and nearer to Sin.

If you stay, I can only suppose two reasons why. Either you remain to convert and preach. Or you are too weak to go away.

This site is an Adult community offering erotic contents.

If you can explain me how staying does fit into your religious outlook and lifestyle, I'll be really keen on knowing.

Oh... and stop quoting scriptures. I have a bible myself [more than one, actually].

And it's better than yours. 😉


Reg's.
 
Kalamos said:
I have a bible myself [more than one, actually].

And it's better than yours. 😉

Saudelli books are my bibles lol 😀 🙂
 
BellyButtonsRoc said:
Archived Article

"Logically speaking, they can all be wrong, but they cannot all be right.

We, therefore, need to ask which religion points to the right God and consider how certain its claims really are."

The guy who wrote that article forgot one very likely possibility... Maybe the differences amidst the various religions of mankind imply that NO religion is correct. Maybe, parts of each religion have merit, but no one religion is 100% correct. Logically, that would seem far more likely than one religion that just happened to be totally correct.

One thing that I agree with Christians on is that we are truly flawed creatures. However, in saying that, one can never trust humans when it comes to interpreting the divine. If God exists, he/she/it is way beyond our perceptions, and therefore, even a book inspired by God is likely to be inaccurate or filled with mistakes. Sometimes, I think Christians ultimately put more faith in the Bible and its translators than in God.
 
I decided to write something better than what I did in my last posts:

--------

Personally, I believe God, the bible and stuff, was all made up, to make people obey rules, and like, not kill each other and steal and stuff.

I feel that if there really was a God, he would have made it known by now.

I believe that believing in something that PEOPLE tell you is real and they have no proof, is a waste of time. You could be doing something better than sitting in a church watching some preacher say the same stuff over and over, and making you sit and stand... which they do, so they know you're under their control, and they can make you do anything. (YEah, that's right, mwahahaha! I know the truth!!!)

I have paid attention in sunday school and church, so I know what it's all about. I have forgotten most of it though. I don't even remember what religion I am with. Though I think it's catholic. And I really could care less. I am not worshipping a God, just because my parents tell me to. Seems to me BBR, that you're just doing everything your father says, and believe whatever he believes. A lot of your posts here were like, "My dad said.." etc.

And as has been said, coming here is a sin. Jackin' off is a sin. Everything you'd come here for is a sin. Yet... everyone religious still seems to come anyway. I feel that God is just becoming old and no one pays as much attention to him/her/rat-beast/whatever, and that's how it should be with eveything. God should not be thought about, when making decisions about anything non-religious. I don't even think of marriage as a religious thing. If I ever get married, I would prefer it not be a religious thing. I suppose that can't be avoided though. Oh well.

Anyway, I don't know if all that made sense. Though I think I got my main point across. I don't have anything against people that are religious, I just think it should be kept in your church and left out of everything else.

There we go. Hope that all made sense. I know, I probably started to go on about nothing after a while, but whatever. That's all I am probably going to write in this thread. I'll continue to read other people's opinions, though.

And a quote from Reverand Lovejoy on The Simpsons: "Have you read this thing (Bible)? Technically we're not allowed to go to the bathroom.."

Bye bye 😀
 
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Kalamos

so are you going to see the Movie The Passion of the Christ? a simple yes or no will do. None of your little inmature comments


Thank you
 
BellyButtonsRoc said:
Kalamos

so are you going to see the Movie The Passion of the Christ? a simple yes or no will do. None of your little inmature comments


Thank you

Now if that isn't calling the kettle black, I don't know what is.

Actual snippets from the reviews of the movie "The Passion Of The Christ"

"LETHAL WHIPPIN': Mel Gibson makes a Jesus snuff film.
....The Passion has twice the blood and gore of any Tarantino film-but without an ounce of compassion for it's hero. Other than a few flashbacks where Jesus teaches his followers to be nice to each other, the entire film revoves around solely on the slow torturous mutilation of a human being.."

"....Despite the film's flaws, Gibson proves himself to be a genious-not at filmmaking, but for whipping up so much buzz over a bad film. Gibson has proven himself to be the modern equivalent to PT Barnum, a huckster who has managed to convince people that The Passion Of The Christ is better and more important than it really is."

And you never answered my question BBR, do you personally know any homosexuals?
 
BBR, your last post was a bit on the rough side. And, sadly, this thread is getting boring. 🙂

You evade reasonable questions, and you just ignore all the issues we raised.

I watched and liked some of mr Gibson's previous movies, so maybe I'll get to see this one too.

They all had pathos and action. I suppose this one won't disappoint me either.

Oh, about being "inmature"... Let me suggest you a site, for a change. 😉

http://www.hyperdictionary.com/search.aspx?define=immature


Best regards. 😉
 
Kalamos said:
BBR, your last post was a bit on the rough side. And, sadly, this thread is getting boring. 🙂

You evade reasonable questions, and you just ignore all the issues we raised.

I watched and liked some of mr Gibson's previous movies, so maybe I'll get to see this one too.

They all had pathos and action. I suppose this one won't disappoint me either.

Oh, about being "inmature"... Let me suggest you a site, for a change. 😉

http://www.hyperdictionary.com/search.aspx?define=immature


Best regards. 😉

hmmm how about NO 🙂
 
MayDay said:
Now if that isn't calling the kettle black, I don't know what is.

Actual snippets from the reviews of the movie "The Passion Of The Christ"

"LETHAL WHIPPIN': Mel Gibson makes a Jesus snuff film.
....The Passion has twice the blood and gore of any Tarantino film-but without an ounce of compassion for it's hero. Other than a few flashbacks where Jesus teaches his followers to be nice to each other, the entire film revoves around solely on the slow torturous mutilation of a human being.."

"....Despite the film's flaws, Gibson proves himself to be a genious-not at filmmaking, but for whipping up so much buzz over a bad film. Gibson has proven himself to be the modern equivalent to PT Barnum, a huckster who has managed to convince people that The Passion Of The Christ is better and more important than it really is."

And you never answered my question BBR, do you personally know any homosexuals?


About all thoeses reviews on the Film. The movie is supposed to be bloody and gory its not a film for little Kids! its about Jesus Christ and Cruxican. so of course its gonna very real. and Most of the reviews that i have seen from both Christians and Non are that its a very inpowering film.

and no i don't no homosexuals but even if i did that still would change my view on Gays and Marriage
 
BellyButtonsRoc said:
About all thoeses reviews on the Film. The movie is supposed to be bloody and gory its not a film for little Kids! its about Jesus Christ and Cruxican. so of course its gonna very real. and Most of the reviews that i have seen from both Christians and Non are that its a very inpowering film.

and no i don't no homosexuals but even if i did that still would change my view on Gays and Marriage


Goodness! His spelling has really gone downhill.

I just hope he will edit this:

"and no i don't no homosexuals but even if i did that still would change my view on Gays and Marriage"

'cause it actually means he WOULD change his mind. 🙂


I knew he wasn't that radical, after all. 😉 😉 😉


Oh, and... what about GOODBYE? 🙂


Reg's.
 
BellyButtonsRoc said:
and no i don't no homosexuals but even if i did that still would change my view on Gays and Marriage

That's why you're full of shit.

Thank you and good night!
 
Kalamos said:
Goodness! His spelling has really gone downhill.

I just hope he will edit this:

"and no i don't no homosexuals but even if i did that still would change my view on Gays and Marriage"

'cause it actually means he WOULD change his mind. 🙂


I knew he wasn't that radical, after all. 😉 😉 😉


Oh, and... what about GOODBYE? 🙂


Reg's.


LOL

************cough*********************************


No it would not change my mind and my views inway shape or form about Gays wanted to be Marryed i would still be against it (Meaning NOT for it)
 
Brilliant.

He actually felt like re-affirming his position. He has a sense of humour after all. 😉

Speaking of humour, has anybody noticed the suggested similar threads list, below, points to a jokes thread - Sex in the 90'?

It was quite hilarious. 😀

Somehow the server just knew all this thread was just a joke.
 
Yeah ok well anything i or gibby or any other christian says for that matter. your just gonna turn it around and have your little say about your faith and the Romans and how your church is better etc.... so really you'll never belive and you'll never wanna find out the true truth not some lies that this world and the other worldy religions are preaching and talking about. so its kinda pointless really! so i think this little thread is done and over with. inless you wanna keep talking for your own assument then go all ahead and talk but im out of HERE
 
I suppose you meant "amusement".

Oh, and let me say that: I only played YOUR game. 😉
"My church vs your church".

Too bad nobody can "win" with that "holier-than-thou" attitude.

...

Now we could "grab a chair", and actually talk about WHY you are against gay marriages.
And I mean YOU, not your father, or your religion.


For instance, from maniac's post you can desume he considers culture and religion as overlapping realities.

He stated he wasn't religious, yet the novelty of gay marriages [if it was a novelty at all] seemed to him a breach to religion, and thus to culture.

Yet, reasoning about it, we could accept western culture is not wholly based on christian religion: lay men had a significant part in making modern western culture.

Even a man of the middle ages, Dante, thought state [the emperor] and church [the pope] should be apart. Sure, he believed both received dignity and power from God - but he was born in the XIII century, so he couldn't really think otherwise.

Gibby did admit everyday needs and everlasting religion sometimes clash. He was probably joking about it, but he was less vehement than you.

As a christian, he is worried gay marriages could belittle religious marriage someway - but I don't really think this should be the case.

Some gays are actually very religious - and even if you might find it odd, they would LIKE to have a priest celebrating.


Now, back to you: what are YOUR reasons?
You've called me names, you've been a bit ill mannered.

Yet I tried to respect your position and avoided slanderous speech.

Can you say the same? 🙂


If you'd like to have a frank chat, that chair is empty.


Reg's.
 
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