should Michael Moore shut up or does he have a good point?

[Korastus]

There are two things crazy enough the left considers liabilities. PETA and Michael Moore.

Totally off topic, but I don't know anyone who considers PETA to be closely associated enough with the left to be a liability, because PETA is a bunch of batshit insane hypocrites who're responsible for murdering almost as many animals as the groups they protest (including pets.)

 

[Raytheon]

Oh hush, we only need blokes like the Monty Python crew and Eddie Izzard and Omid Djalili to expose the ridiculousness on your side of the pond, and they do it very, very well

lol *agrees* 🙂

 

[sasaxrah]

So you are happy he bassically trashes America ?

Surely you're not suggesting that he or I can't disagree with certain aspects of our country?

 

[badreligion]

Surely you're not suggesting that he or I can't disagree with certain aspects of our country?

Oh not at all I disagree with certian aspects as well but all Moore does is spew hatred and doesnt even provide accurate facts to backup his claims . There is a difference between disagreeing with things our government does * IE the Bush doctrine for War against Iraq * and going around saying that nations like Cuba and Venzuela have better systems in place and take better care of their citizens than the US does .

 

[sasaxrah]

Oh not at all I disagree with certian aspects as well but all Moore does is spew hatred and doesnt even provide accurate facts to backup his claims . There is a difference between disagreeing with things our government does * IE the Bush doctrine for War against Iraq * and going around saying that nations like Cuba and Venzuela have better systems in place and take better care of their citizens than the US does .

Disagreeing with the Bush doctrine and disagreeing with the health care system are both ways of disagreeing with policies, and are not "trashing America." Why not examine other countries' systems if you disagree with a specific American system? If you're talking about Sicko, I don't think Moore even mentioned Venezuela. I thought the scene where he took sick Americans to Cuba for health care was a bit much, but Cuba does have a higher life expectancy rate than we do.

 

[badreligion]

Id like to see proof of that claim that Cuba has a higher life expectancy than that of the US that is news to me . As for the health care system .... From an insurance POV it that has its problems but from a medical / treatment point of view it is better than most health care systems in the world . There is a reason why so many people come here to get medical treatment .

 

[venray]

Disagreeing with the Bush doctrine and disagreeing with the health care system are both ways of disagreeing with policies, and are not "trashing America." Why not examine other countries' systems if you disagree with a specific American system? If you're talking about Sicko, I don't think Moore even mentioned Venezuela. I thought the scene where he took sick Americans to Cuba for health care was a bit much, but Cuba does have a higher life expectancy rate than we do.

Where would YOU go for medical care...?

 

[c7_assassin]

It's not about where you'd go...you should be able to stay in your own country and not have to worry about getting sick or injured when you don't have insurance.

I've been in the hospital plenty, and I've never once had to worry about being presented with a bill at the end of the day.

It's a basic goddamn human right. Moore's point was that even in a repressive communist regime, they still have their shit together enough to at least give their citizens healthcare.

 

[badreligion]

Yeah they might get free healthcare but the catch is they can't pick their own doctors , and a majority of the time they have to wait 4 to 6 weeks if not longer for tests to be done and operations to be done . Our current system if you need an operation you don't wait 6 weeks most of the time you don't have to wait 6 hours thats why our system is alot better than most .

 

[c7_assassin]

Yeah they might get free healthcare but the catch is they can't pick their own doctors , and a majority of the time they have to wait 4 to 6 weeks if not longer for tests to be done and operations to be done . Our current system if you need an operation you don't wait 6 weeks most of the time you don't have to wait 6 hours thats why our system is alot better than most .

You don't know what you're talking about, friend.

Say I'm an American and I have no health insurance. And I get appendicitis. What happens to me?

Here, I go to a hospital, I get a test, and I have my appendix out that night. Whole process completed in a day. No bill.

Is that how it would be down there?

 

[badreligion]

You don't know what you're talking about, friend.

Say I'm an American and I have no health insurance. And I get appendicitis. What happens to me?

Here, I go to a hospital, I get a test, and I have my appendix out that night. Whole process completed in a day. No bill.

Is that how it would be down there?

Actually yes . If someone goes in with something like appendicitis to the drs it doesnt matter if they have insurance or not all they care about is treating the patient the same thing happens here they get taken care of right away . However I do agree that our insurance policys are a bit fucked up and that those do need to be fixed . But from a 100% medical/treatment point of view it doesnt matter at the time a person gets treated no matter what .

 

[asutickler]

You don't know what you're talking about, friend.

Say I'm an American and I have no health insurance. And I get appendicitis. What happens to me?

Here, I go to a hospital, I get a test, and I have my appendix out that night. Whole process completed in a day. No bill.

Is that how it would be down there?

Except for the "no bill" part, yes. Emergency rooms can't turn people away for lack of insurance. We just have an expectation that people should (in general) be financially responsible for themselves.

 

[c7_assassin]

Well, good! 🙂

But the "no bill" part is important too. It's not about being financially responsible for yourself...if someone breaks into your apartment, do you have to pay the cops when they arrive to get them to help you? Do you have to pay the fire department to come if your house is on fire? So why is it different when you to have to pay the hospital to save you if you're sick or injured?

 

[Filthyweasel]

Not once living in Scotland did I ever have to worry about getting sick. I would also get kept in for observation for a few days no matter what surgery I was having, not kicked out of the hospital on the same day because it's cheaper for the insurance company. Any choosing my own doctor? Well, the surgeon that's fixing me on Wednesday is a guy I've never met before, because the guy I trust that has worked on my family no longer takes my insurance, and I would have to pay through the nose AGAIN for an 'out of network' doctor. People who diss socialized healthcare really do need to shut the hell up until they try it themselves. I get over $100 a month deducted from my paycheck for this. And I only get halfway decent insurance if I'm working in a full-time position, which is going to be gone in January when my business closes. Part time workers tend to get this crappy little version on health insurance which does nothing.

I've been there, I've lived under other health care systems. This country swindles it's citizens. Others heal theirs. And the quality of healthcare is the same if not better. Here the quality depends on how much cash you have. It is the DUTY of the government in power to look after the health and well being of the people who live, work, and contribute to the country they govern. They pay soldiers to protect us from harm, they can pay doctors too.

 

[BellaRisa]

Except for the "no bill" part, yes. Emergency rooms can't turn people away for lack of insurance. We just have an expectation that people should (in general) be financially responsible for themselves.

And if people can't afford the insane costs of necessary healthcare, we expect them to go into horrible debt, give up their beloved homes and uproot their families, basically do whatever it takes to not die even if the stress from trying to be "financially responsible for themselves" might ultimately kill them...

 

[asutickler]

And if people can't afford the insane costs of necessary healthcare, we expect them to go into horrible debt, give up their beloved homes and uproot their families, basically do whatever it takes to not die even if the stress from trying to be "financially responsible for themselves" might ultimately kill them...

Actually no, at least not in my state. If someone legitimately cannot afford insurance and is willing to prove it, the state of Arizona will provide them with full medical insurance. Check it out: http://www.azahcccs.gov/

If you qualify for ACHCCCS and don't have it at the time you become sick or injured, the state will even allow you to sign up retroactively. It's tough to get a better deal than that...

 

[sasaxrah]

Id like to see proof of that claim that Cuba has a higher life expectancy than that of the US that is news to me . As for the health care system .... From an insurance POV it that has its problems but from a medical / treatment point of view it is better than most health care systems in the world . There is a reason why so many people come here to get medical treatment .

Google "name of country" and the words "life expectancy." You'll see lots of different websites. Cuban men live an average of 4 years longer than American men.

Where would YOU go for medical care...?

I am extremely lucky to have great health care. I'd go here out of convenience. 45 million other Americans aren't as lucky as I am. And even more have claims denied due to bogus insurance mumbo jumbo.

This is straying from the overall point, however. Michael Moore brings up important points of view in his movies and starts up important national lines of dialogue. I do not think he should shut up.

 

[badreligion]

Google "name of country" and the words "life expectancy." You'll see lots of different websites. Cuban men live an average of 4 years longer than American men.



I am extremely lucky to have great health care. I'd go here out of convenience. 45 million other Americans aren't as lucky as I am. And even more have claims denied due to bogus insurance mumbo jumbo.

This is straying from the overall point, however. Michael Moore brings up important points of view in his movies and starts up important national lines of dialogue. I do not think he should shut up.

I really doubt its the quality of medical care that keeps Cuban men alive 4 years longer than American men its due to the fact that most american's are complete fatasses and are dropping dead due to complications with being obesse.

 

[c7_assassin]

I really doubt its the quality of medical care that keeps Cuban men alive 4 years longer than American men its due to the fact that most american's are complete fatasses and are dropping dead due to complications with being obesse.

You also have a bit of a gun-violence problem...but then Michael Moore made a movie about that, too.

 

[sasaxrah]

I really doubt its the quality of medical care that keeps Cuban men alive 4 years longer than American men its due to the fact that most american's are complete fatasses and are dropping dead due to complications with being obesse.

I'm not sure you have enough information to say that. Besides, if you get diabetes due to being a "complete fatass" you are fucked if you have bad or no insurance. If you get heart disease (#1 killer of Americans) and don't insurance, you can't get meds or surgery. So yeah, insurance matters.

 

[badreligion]

You also have a bit of a gun-violence problem...but then Michael Moore made a movie about that, too.

Don't disagree with you on the gun problem .

 

[BellaRisa]

Actually no, at least not in my state. If someone legitimately cannot afford insurance and is willing to prove it, the state of Arizona will provide them with full medical insurance. Check it out: http://www.azahcccs.gov/

If you qualify for ACHCCCS and don't have it at the time you become sick or injured, the state will even allow you to sign up retroactively. It's tough to get a better deal than that...

Hooray for Arizona, good job . The fact still remains that healthcare bills are one of the leading causes of bankruptcy in America: http://blogs.consumerreports.org/he...bt-medical-bills-how-to-avoid-bankruptcy.html

Moore is a lot of things but he's right, it just doesn't have to be this way.

 

[badreligion]

I'm not sure you have enough information to say that. Besides, if you get diabetes due to being a "complete fatass" you are fucked if you have bad or no insurance. If you get heart disease (#1 killer of Americans) and don't insurance, you can't get meds or surgery. So yeah, insurance matters.

I never said it was the only problem I said it was ONE of the problems .

 

[Goodieluver]

Michael Moore has destroyed the image of what documentaries is supposed to be

 

[BellaRisa]

Michael Moore has destroyed the image of what documentaries is supposed to be

I don't think that's true, no one with sense goes into one of his films expecting 100% unbiased info. And I have to say, I've yet to see any of his films that was dead wrong unless you're someone who feels Bush was an outstanding president, we don't need better gun control, and our healthcare system is glorious and takes good care of everyone.