So I almost shot a man a little over 4 hours ago...

[Brock Samson]

And it was while patrolling my own apartment complex. He was definitely wasted, out in the parking lot with some cumbia playing loud as hell. I didn't even get a good approach, cuz as soon as he sees me, he picks up a very long phillips head screwdriver and decides to rush me. Naturally I drew down on him and start yelling for him to stop. He gets to within 15 ft of me, stops, and suddenly falls down. Cuffs, checking ID, monitoring pulse, blah blah blah.

After he was hauled off by Houston's finest, I started wondering why I didn't shoot him. I know that if I had shot him prior to warning him, I would have theoretically been wrong, but ultimately would have been cleared by the DA. I doubt I would have cared too much either. I'm not really known for being sympathetic, at least not in this kind of situation. But since it didn't happen that way, I'm beginning to wonder why. If this had been at a club, he would be dead, no question in my mind. Hell, if this had been a few years back when I had just gotten out of the service, he would definitely be dead.

I suppose I am asking whether I'm theoretically in the wrong for questioning the choice to let the man live.

 

[TropicThunder]

I think letting someone live is always a good decision.

the guy went down, so obviously he was the weaker subject. Why kill him? you won.

 

[BlackestLily]

Maybe it was a question of distance and timing. A drunk man running can't be clipping along too well and 15 feet (I would think, don't know for certain) is enough to question whether or not to fire. Perhaps civilian "training" is sinking in...?

 

[Speedbump]

I think letting someone live is always a good decision.

the guy went down, so obviously he was the weaker subject. Why kill him? you won.

He didn't know that at the time, though. Should it have been different and he wasn't quite as drunk as he was, then poetic could've put his own life in danger by hesitating to shoot the man.

Although, poetic, I think you should just be happy that no one got hurt in the situation rather than dwelling on what may or may not have occurred in various other possible outcomes, or trying to find fault in yourself.

 

[TklDuo-Ann]

Life is the best outcome. Perhaps something inside you knew he wasn't a true threat to you at that moment. I'd be more concerned if he actually got to you with the weapon and you still didn't react. Glad you got out of it safely!

 

[john getty]

Fuck me, I don't wanna hear that it's us un-armed Brits who are crazy anymore.

 

[myth77]

I agree with Ann. I think your intuition was working and you knew that he would not get to harm you. That is really scary though. I'm glad you're okay

 

[Saeria]

NO, BAD POE... shooting people is bad! Now where's my rolled up newspaper?

Seriously though, glad you're okay. Houston Heat+Drunk makes people crazy and the drunkies a little more belligerent.

 

[BigJim]

And it was while patrolling my own apartment complex. He was definitely wasted, out in the parking lot with some cumbia playing loud as hell. I didn't even get a good approach, cuz as soon as he sees me, he picks up a very long phillips head screwdriver and decides to rush me. Naturally I drew down on him and start yelling for him to stop. He gets to within 15 ft of me, stops, and suddenly falls down. Cuffs, checking ID, monitoring pulse, blah blah blah.

After he was hauled off by Houston's finest, I started wondering why I didn't shoot him. I know that if I had shot him prior to warning him, I would have theoretically been wrong, but ultimately would have been cleared by the DA. I doubt I would have cared too much either. I'm not really known for being sympathetic, at least not in this kind of situation. But since it didn't happen that way, I'm beginning to wonder why. If this had been at a club, he would be dead, no question in my mind. Hell, if this had been a few years back when I had just gotten out of the service, he would definitely be dead.

I suppose I am asking whether I'm theoretically in the wrong for questioning the choice to let the man live.

You'll be voting Democrat and givng a shit about civil rights next.

No of course it wasn't wrong to use a warning, you dopey bugger! There was that reaction gap of more than those vital few seconds between you, so you had both time and reason to be able to give a warning safely without him being able to gut you with a melee weapon.

If he had been six feet away from you, or ten feet or any of those other different distances that most people don't know are WAY inside the distance it would take him to charge at and stab you before you could get your piece clear, THEN there would have been no need and no reason to feel bad about taking lethal force.

Perhaps what has caused you most pause for thought, is that you know you would have reacted differently once upon a time and wonder if the change in you is good or bad. Personally, I think you've changed for the better. If someone is outside of the reaction gap and you blast them without thinking about a verbal warning, then you've got something to worry about.

 

[c7_assassin]

No of course it wasn't wrong to use a warning, you dopey bugger! There was that reaction gap of more than those vital few seconds between you, so you had both time and reason to be able to give a warning safely without him being able to gut you with a melee weapon.

I agree. You acted like a professional and not like a maniac. You should be proud of yourself. Job well done.

 

[herts tickler]

live life to the fullest cos life can be taken away
be careful with bullets cos bullets can easily spray...

 

[Skipadeedoodah]

It seems like you assessed the situation and decided he wasn't a threat enough to kill him. I agree with what others said about him being drunk and probably not really charging you with any amount of speed. Not to mention is weapon of choice was a screwdriver, which, yeah okay can cause some damage, but with no coordination you probably could easily have disarmed him even if he did get to you.

It sounds like things went about as well as possible and no one was unnecessarily hurt. Way to go.

 

[jonsmith]

I'm going with, you did the right thing, not injuring the man, though you certainly could have done so.

 

[Interrogator]

God I love America

 

[CrystalLight]

Morals stopped you?

Perhaps knowing it would've been useless anyhow. You had a much better weapon than he did.

A good decision made though. I wouldn't feel wrong questioning it.

 

[slacker2114]

Did the guy ever REALLY pose a threat to you? Between your police training and your military training, I'm betting that even with a screwdriver, he was no threat to you. With all your training, tempered by whatever experience you have, you most likely knew instinctively you could take him without shooting and with little to no harm to yourself. You did well holding off on shooting. Saved yourself a huge headache and that guy from getting an extra orifice. No need to question yourself at all, in my opinion.

 

[BigJim]

God I love America

I love it that much I'm going to get the postman to put my post in a bread bin on a stick and the paper boy to throw my Telegraph into the back garden. Next time I run over a rabbit I might even drive home with it strapped over the bonnet of my car.

 

[BigJim]

Did the guy ever REALLY pose a threat to you? Between your police training and your military training, I'm betting that even with a screwdriver, he was no threat to you. With all your training, tempered by whatever experience you have, you most likely knew instinctively you could take him without shooting and with little to no harm to yourself.

If the guy was "chemically enhanced", then yes, he posed a threat. I know of one occasion when someone who was wired to the moon on some shit or other took two full cans of incapacitant spray in the face and repeated strikes with batons from two coppers. Not only did he not feel a thing he disarmed them both and fractured their skulls, resulting in one of them being disabled for life. The next morning the guy was in agony from many injuries, but at the time, he didn't feel a thing.

If someone's behaviour is as erratic as decribed here, there's a chance he could be on something, which will make him virtually unstoppable unless signififcantly strong force is used.

 

[scottg]

Technically u made the right choice, usually not in danger with such a weapon at that distance (15 ft) , So i'd have to agree with bigjim & say u may have changed for the better!!!

 

[maniactickler]

I agree. You acted like a professional and not like a maniac. You should be proud of yourself. Job well done.

No need to bring me into this.

You did the right thing though. if you shot him, youd probably have been the one doing time with the way the damn laws are now.

 

[Mitchell]

Glad to hear everything turned out okay.

From what you described, his rushing you with a screwdriver doesn't sound like a situation where "Shooting a defensive shot that would kill", would be the best option. If you did have to shoot him, maybe shooting him in the leg, or the foot, where he would fall down, and be disabled, where he couldnt rush you anymore, sounds appropriate. I'm not a cop, and I dont know the laws, but, I've known people in security and law enforcement, and, from what I've heard, cops are taught to fire shots to kill, only in situations where they or others lives are in danger from a potentially deadly weapon.

Anyhow, thankfully you're alright.

Mitch

 

[TonyInMyThroat]

Did the guy ever REALLY pose a threat to you? Between your police training and your military training, I'm betting that even with a screwdriver, he was no threat to you.

Don’t be an asshole slacker, I’d like to see how you would react in that situation!

With all your training, tempered by whatever experience you have, you most likely knew instinctively you could take him without shooting and with little to no harm to yourself. You did well holding off on shooting. Saved yourself a huge headache and that guy from getting an extra orifice. No need to question yourself at all, in my opinion.

Oh, now I see … sorry. I apologize for my overtly emotional outburst prior to reading your entire response and completely disregarding the true intent of your post in favor of satiating my uncontrollable prurient urge to engage in anonymous internet flaming.

if this had been a few years back when I had just gotten out of the service, he would definitely be dead.

Just keep in mind Poetic, if you were still active duty you'd be up for the newly proposed “Medal for Courageous Restraint”.

Well done sir.

 

[BigJim]

Glad to hear everything turned out okay.

From what you described, his rushing you with a screwdriver doesn't sound like a situation where "Shooting a defensive shot that would kill", would be the best option. If you did have to shoot him, maybe shooting him in the leg, or the foot, where he would fall down, and be disabled, where he couldnt rush you anymore, sounds appropriate. I'm not a cop, and I dont know the laws, but, I've known people in security and law enforcement, and, from what I've heard, cops are taught to fire shots to kill, only in situations where they or others lives are in danger from a potentially deadly weapon.

Anyhow, thankfully you're alright.

Mitch

Mitch, I don't wish to sound confrontational or anything, but "shoot to kill" is a myth as big as the tooth fairy and Father Christmas. You shoot to stop, full stop. If everyone is lucky, then the person getting shot will survive to face a judge. The only way you can do that sort of thing safely in a heated situation, with adrenaline flowing like a river and a moving, aggressive target is to aim at the centre of the mass of the target that's coming at you.
There is no such either as "shoot to disable", unless you're Robocop or the Terminator. For such a thing you would need a weapon that automatically laser-guided to the shoulder or whatever.
If you take the time to aim at something as small as an appendage, then you're asking to be dead. Aside from the fact that you might (or probably would - given the situation and the moving target) miss, someone who's either running on full aggression or drugs (or both) won't be stopped by it and the next thing you know the person checking out that screwdriver is either a brain surgeon or your proctologist.

 

[SlaverTickler]

And it was while patrolling my own apartment complex. He was definitely wasted, out in the parking lot with some cumbia playing loud as hell. I didn't even get a good approach, cuz as soon as he sees me, he picks up a very long phillips head screwdriver and decides to rush me. Naturally I drew down on him and start yelling for him to stop. He gets to within 15 ft of me, stops, and suddenly falls down. Cuffs, checking ID, monitoring pulse, blah blah blah.


I suppose I am asking whether I'm theoretically in the wrong for questioning the choice to let the man live.

You will probably sleep better having not shot him, nobody can really say 100% what they would do in a situation like that. Some people might have shot him as soon as he picked up the screw driver.

 

[Leo tickles]

Everybody hears stories about cops abusing power and shooting people that aren't that big of a threat.

Now you tell this story, and I'm happy, and agree with your decision not to shoot him. He wasn't a threat, he was an annoyance. At the time, it probably was scary and threatening, but sit back and think about it. A wasted man with a screw driver? Yeah, not a good way to spend an evening, but not even close to worth shooting.

He can waste his life away in prison for the choices he's made, and that's all on him now.

His death would have been on you.