Space Shuttle Columbia Breaks up over Texas

[amk714]

My condolences to the families of the astronauts who died today. I hope we will learn something from this tragedy so those seven will not have died in vain. 🙁

 

[He-Man]

Regardless of all that, let us not overlook the fact that the men and women on Columbia we heroes in thier own right. Acts of heroism do not always have to be pre-meditated or headline-grabbing. Space is the most unfriendly environment known to living organisms. Just agreeing to go is an act of taking your ass in your hands.

Yeah, those people were brave for going up there in space. Takes some real guts to do that when you have nothing but your crew, equipment, and smarts to help you get out of a bad situation. Too bad none of those things were able to save the people on the shuttle.🙁

 

[Texas_Tickle]

Re: Re: Space Shuttle Columbia Breaks up over Texas

😕
I think somone is trying to tell us something. Like to stay on this planet.


TTD

I don't believe that, one bit. You keep going. What if Columbus sailed back to Spain at the 1st sign of bad weather?

Ok, bad analogy, I know, but you get the idea. If you are going to give up, after every set-back, then why get out of bed in the morning?

The space program is too valuable to just toss it aside because of a tragedy. We bounced back from Apollo. We bounced back from Challenger and we will soar into the stars again.

If we do not, then they would have died in vain and every person who set foot in space, would have been for nothing.

We honor their lives and their memory by going on. We honor their lives and their memory by carrying on their work.

Yes, NASA is going to make some changes, which will take awhile. The 1st flight after Challenger was 2 years later, so we may not be seeing any more missions in the near future, but once again, we will go back into space,

 

[Bagelfather]

escape possibilities

There is no point having a breakaway nose if at the only point it would do any good is when they are traveling close to Mach I. They have reviewed escape pods when in orbit for the station and there really isn't anything that is that reliable. The money involved is a lot, true, but why spend the money when the chance of survival is stil marginal at best. The escape mechanism they have is good if there is enough time to react and it is safe to do so. If the astronauts on Challenger had a little more time they could have abborted to safety.

No escape hatch on the capsule for splash down? Why so the astronaut can go outside and drown himself? Inside the confines of the capsule it is dificult astronaut to strip enough of his* gear and jump into the ocean. Having tried swimming in full clothing (Boy Scouts saftey class) I wouldn't even want to think about even 30 lbs of gear and trying to stay afloat in the ocean. If not rescued quickly the astronaut would sink to the bottom in nothing flat. Sure you can include a floatation device for him but he would still need to be rescued quickly to avoid hypothermia. Plus if water got in the capsule if it tipped the wrong way it could bring it down to the bottom with the astronaut stuck on or in it.

At first they had reserverations about hatches, but if you remember your history they don't have hatches but they do have explosive bolts to blow a hatch, as was used when Liberty Bell 7 splashed down on, July 21, 1961.

NASA tries to take very precaution it can. Unforutnately budget, egos, etc get in the way.

Astronauts know their job is very dangerous and there are not the standard saftey proceedures in place that you would find in other situations, and they are willing to accept that risk. Space flight is still dangerous and we will have to learn to accept that.

As far as a part of the space fuel tank hitting the wing, at the time NASA thought it was just an ice chunk. Ice falls off all the time during lift off and they are still not sure if it was something else or not.

When you are traveling at Mach 18 any small variation in the flight can be disasterous. If you are one degree off the incline from your decent or roll or pitch even a tiny amount it is amplified hundreds of time and could send the shuttle to its doom.

If you want to be angry about "budget" be angry about a vehicle that is being used longer than expected. Columbia should have retired 2 years ago based on NASAs original schedule. They were designed to fly for 20 years (I forget the number of missions). Although still safe overall it is pushing the age and stress on these vehicles.

I think we need to not point fingers at this time but hold hands in solidarit and memorial to those who risked their lives, and gave the ultimate sacrifice for the purpose of benefiting humanity, and trying to better everyone's lives.




* I said his, and not his or her since in the original space program there were only male American astronauts.

 

[Daumantas]

It is right to mourn the tragic deaths, but I think it's definitely in order to point out where $$$$$$$$$ get in the way of things, because that happens way too often nowadays.

I was at a WWII aviation museum yesterday, climbing aboard a still-functional B-17 and talking with a guide who flew in one over Germany. The B-17's (like many American aircraft of the time) would be hit again, and again, and again, and land half torn to shreds, but nonetheless last long enough to bring the crew back alive.

Today, because of everyone's obsession with maximizing their profits, it seems you can't even buy a stinkin' CAR, let alone a vehicle that flies (either in the atmosphere or beyond it) without having to worry that it's going to fall apart.

God bless the souls of those who perished. It's a shame somebody's concerns about $$$$$$$$ were put ahead of their lives.

 

[RichardAuc]

Number of missions, per Bagelfather's request...

The Columbia was designed to fly 100 missions. The 28th mission was the one that broke it.

Just found that one out on CNN this pm. As for the age of the Columbia, it was first flown in '81. NASA has already claimed "the age of the fleet is not a concern at this time."

Twenty-four dead people. Seven yesterday, seven aboard Challenger, and ten more due to a liftoff fire from the Apollo missions. Let's MAKE the "age of the fleet" a "concern at this time.

 

[TickledToDeath]

Re: Number of missions, per Bagelfather's request...

The Columbia was designed to fly 100 missions. The 28th mission was the one that broke it.

Just found that one out on CNN this pm. As for the age of the Columbia, it was first flown in '81. NASA has already claimed "the age of the fleet is not a concern at this time."

Twenty-four dead people. Seven yesterday, seven aboard Challenger, and ten more due to a liftoff fire from the Apollo missions. Let's MAKE the "age of the fleet" a "concern at this time.

Of course they are not going to mention to the public that the Comumbia was in as good a shape as a model of the original VW Bug!

AND not to mention that these greedy friggin #$^$^%%#@@!@!#@#$@...
are using 1960's ....yes 1960's Tech-fu**ingnology in the 21st century!(2003)!!!!!!
....Moooooooooooooney, it's a hit, don't give me that doooo gooody good buuuuuullllllllllshit..."


TTD

 

[TicklingDuo]

Re: Number of missions, per Bagelfather's request...

The Columbia was designed to fly 100 missions. The 28th mission was the one that broke it.

My question is...Where were the pilots of those 100 flights that enabled them to determine that the craft would last that long? Now, befopre anyone gets upset, I KNOW that's just a hypothesis. But, unless they find that something else caused this, they may want to refigure the time scale they're working with.

Ann

 

[kurchatovium]

These determinations are generally made by engineers who have analyzed the structure of the shuttle and stresses involved during a routine flight and then figure out how long the vehicle can fly before it needs to be retired or undergo a major overhaul. I'm certain similar things are done for new planes. Usually some test flights are run to give the engineers some actual test data to analyze.

 

[TicklingDuo]

Now for the dirty part of all this....

I came across this a few minutes ago. If it's true, someone should be SHOT!

Ann

Report: NASA Removed Advisers Who Warned on Safety

NEW YORK (Reuters) - After an expert panel warned that its space shuttles were facing safety troubles if the agency's budget was not raised, NASA removed five of the panel's nine members and two consultants in what some of them said was a move to suppress their criticism, The New York Times reported on Monday.

The incident was recalled after the space shuttle Columbia broke up over Texas on Saturday, killing all seven astronauts aboard.

Retired Adm. Bernard Kauderer, was so upset at the firings that he quit NASA's Aerospace Safety Advisory Panel, a group of experts charged with monitoring safety at the space agency, the newspaper said.

NASA conceded the individuals were forced out, but told the Times it changed the charter of the group so that new members who were younger and more skilled could be added. "It had nothing to do with shooting the messenger," a NASA spokeswoman told the newspaper.

NASA Administrator Sean O'Keefe said he was surprised by the report and that each member of the panel head served out his full term.

"There's no abnormality I'm aware of, but I'll certainly look into it and see if we can satisfy ourselves that there's no other intrusion involved," he told CNN.

The panel's most recent report, which came out last March and included analyzes by the six departed members, warned that work on long-term shuttle safety "had deteriorated," the article said. Tight budgets, the panel report said, were forcing an emphasis on short-term planning and adding to a backlog of planned improvements.

"I have never been as worried for space shuttle safety as I am right now," Dr. Richard D. Blomberg, the panel's chairman, told Congress in April. "All of my instincts suggest that the current approach is planting the seeds for future danger," the Times reported.

His worry was "not for the present flight or the next or perhaps the one after that." He added, "One of the roots of my concern is that nobody will know for sure when the safety margin has been eroded too far," the newspaper said.

Members of Congress who heard testimony from the panel last spring told the Times that they would re-examine whether budget constraints had undermined safety, but several said they doubted it.

O'Keefe said Blomberg "was concerned about the future process at that time, of exactly what would be the upgrades as well as the safety modifications necessary. We took those ideas aboard."

President Bush will propose a nearly $470 million boost in NASA's budget for fiscal 2004, an administration official said on Sunday, promising investigators would look into whether past cutbacks played any part in the Columbia disaster.

 

[Texas_Tickle]

Re: Now for the dirty part of all this....

I came across this a few minutes ago. If it's true, someone should be SHOT!

Ann

Report: NASA Removed Advisers Who Warned on Safety

This is a sore spot for NASA. They were more concerned with "cutting corners" than they were about saftey.

They would rather cut saftey and save a few million $$ in the process.

That is what happened with Challenger. 17 years later and they still have not learned.

 

[TicklingDuo]

Yep....put the $ into research BEFORE a disaster instead of into clean-up and PR AFTER one!

Ann

 

[QBWeaver]

I hope the families and friends of those brave people find peace in dealing with this catastrophy.

 

[MadKalnod]

All those decrying the "greed" of NASA cost-cutters would do well to remember that NASA's budget is continually in danger of being decimated by Congressmen who feel that "we can put that money to so much better use here at home", i.e. pouring more down the insatiable maw of bloated and incompetent social-spending programs which produce no real results save buying votes.

As a wise man once said, "We can inhabit the moon or the Welfare office, but not both."

 

[guitman69]

I just saw in the news today that NASA's budget has been increased for the first time 10 years. In ten years, they haven't even gotten an inflationary increase. They've had to cut corners because they can't afford not to. Their not like a normal company, where if they fall on hard times, they lie to the stock holders to increase the price of their stock so they can get more money.

And as for a statement earlier that someone made about "Why didn't they abort when they new they had a problem?" They can't abort. Once you start heading up like that, there's no way to come back but the way they did. They didn't even have any way to find out if the piece of foam that hit the wing caused any damage.

Whenever they do a space walk, it's within the confines of the cargo bay. This mission however, they had two modular labs inside the cargo bay. They didn't even have room for the robitic arm that usually sits in there, so they couldn't have used that to check the wing either. And even if they could have discovered the damage, they had no way of repairing it.

 

[Venus51099]

Re: Now for the dirty part of all this....

I came across this a few minutes ago. If it's true, someone should be SHOT!

Ann

Report: NASA Removed Advisers Who Warned on Safety

NEW YORK (Reuters) - After an expert panel warned that its space shuttles were facing safety troubles if the agency's budget was not raised, NASA removed five of the panel's nine members and two consultants in what some of them said was a move to suppress their criticism, The New York Times reported on Monday.

The incident was recalled after the space shuttle Columbia broke up over Texas on Saturday, killing all seven astronauts aboard.

Retired Adm. Bernard Kauderer, was so upset at the firings that he quit NASA's Aerospace Safety Advisory Panel, a group of experts charged with monitoring safety at the space agency, the newspaper said.

NASA conceded the individuals were forced out, but told the Times it changed the charter of the group so that new members who were younger and more skilled could be added. "It had nothing to do with shooting the messenger," a NASA spokeswoman told the newspaper.

NASA Administrator Sean O'Keefe said he was surprised by the report and that each member of the panel head served out his full term.

"There's no abnormality I'm aware of, but I'll certainly look into it and see if we can satisfy ourselves that there's no other intrusion involved," he told CNN.

The panel's most recent report, which came out last March and included analyzes by the six departed members, warned that work on long-term shuttle safety "had deteriorated," the article said. Tight budgets, the panel report said, were forcing an emphasis on short-term planning and adding to a backlog of planned improvements.

"I have never been as worried for space shuttle safety as I am right now," Dr. Richard D. Blomberg, the panel's chairman, told Congress in April. "All of my instincts suggest that the current approach is planting the seeds for future danger," the Times reported.

His worry was "not for the present flight or the next or perhaps the one after that." He added, "One of the roots of my concern is that nobody will know for sure when the safety margin has been eroded too far," the newspaper said.

Members of Congress who heard testimony from the panel last spring told the Times that they would re-examine whether budget constraints had undermined safety, but several said they doubted it.

O'Keefe said Blomberg "was concerned about the future process at that time, of exactly what would be the upgrades as well as the safety modifications necessary. We took those ideas aboard."

President Bush will propose a nearly $470 million boost in NASA's budget for fiscal 2004, an administration official said on Sunday, promising investigators would look into whether past cutbacks played any part in the Columbia disaster.

Ann, I read this too, and you're right if it is true.....someone should be shot. Nah, that would be too good for them. This is indeed a sad thing that has happened.🙁
My heart goes out to the families and loved ones of those who lost their lives. Praying for them all. 🙁

 

[firerescue]

This was such a tragedy,, my heart goes out to the brave men and woman that lost their lives and to their families🙁