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Tacit cruelty on behalf of members

O

Operator

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Oct 31, 2009
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I know I do not spend enough time posting on this forum to really have a voice on the overall atmosphere- too much to be a lurker, not enough to be an "active member" - but when I see something wrong I feel compelled to comment.

We all know there are creeps on this forum. It's a given- in the fetish world there are upstanding men and women with a mildly unusual interest in whatever that fetish is, and there are creeps. I get it. You get it. Those who voluntarily sign up for a fetish site get it, or should.

That said, the way that people are flamed for posts that do not coincide with the modern incarnation of respectful, polite, socially proper conversational engagement is ridiculous.

For every person here who through positive upbringing or trial-by-fire in the real world has developed the social savoir-faire that we have come to see as common and often have difficulty understanding why others can't "behave", there is at least one of the other category. Introverts. Social failures. Creeps. People for which the TMF is their only fetish outlet, because in real life they lack the common etiquette to convince their desired parter to partake.

If you consider yourself part of the first category, please review the section of the manual on "class". Sarcastic posts, advice to get psychiatric care, outright angry retorts... while sometimes glib, move you closer to the category of people who make the Forum unpleasant.

I know this place is not moderated as intensely as it was back in 2000 when I joined- more members, fewer active moderators, etc etc etc. Can we not moderate ourselves? Can we not choose to be constructive or failing that, ignore the posters in order to demonstrate our displeasure?

I am in the military- several years in the infantry before switching to a more academic career field. I have absolutely no problem hurting someone's feelings- that's not what this post is about. I am talking about common courtesy and proper conduct by those who wish to separate themselves from the "creeps" in the eyes of the forum. Feel free to post a reply, but as a parting note- if this thread makes you feel defensive or confrontational, I am probably talking about you.
 
I hear what you're saying, and I agree that there is too much anger and hostility around here. I also think that just about any point can be made in the right way - and that there is a right way and a wrong to get almost any point across.

Do you not think that there is an appropriate way to express to someone that, regardless of intent, they are coming across in a rude or disrespectful? I would think that just about anyone, particularly those who are not meaning to come across that way, would want to know. Tone is a difficult if not impossible thing to perceive in text, and so it isn't uncommon for things to come across some way other than that which they were intended - and if that were the case with something I had said, I would want someone to let me know.

I guess my point here is that some people are just assholes - yes. But specifically the people who really are just trying to make themselves heard are the very people who I would think would benefit from someone letting them know respectfully and without flaming them that this is the way they're coming across. You can say that it's nobody's business to police others' posts and that while one might interpret it one way another would interpret it another, and I agree with you. But I guess what I'm saying is that I don't think it's wrong to let someone know, "Hey - this is sounding disrespectful and rude." If it were me, I'd want to know.
 
Skipadeedoodah-

Excellent refinement, and I do agree completely with your point that there is a right and wrong way. Beneath the straightforward and somewhat blunt approach to the subject, I think you are saying what I was trying to say.

Sarcasm is not helpful, nor is stating that someone needs professional help, or other "flaming" methods. It is possible to be equally vehement while remaining tactful (a lesson the military regrettably taught me lol).

There are better and worse communicators than me and I realize that, but something along these lines it completely sufficient:

"I don't know if you realize how that sounds, but I hope I can explain to you why that might be poorly received. Tickling is intimate whether fetish-related or otherwise, and intimate conduct generally follows a pattern of getting to know one another, establishing relationships, and then easing into the more personal types of engagement- can you see how what you're talking about doesn't really stick with that pattern?"

There are forum members that do the right thing, TKDuo-Ann being a shining example of defending the social atmosphere while remaining classy. Its the vocal majority that make fun of / degrade the creepers and their socially uncouth behavior that I was trying to address.

Thank you for the well thought out post, Skipadeedoodah- I'm a long-time fan of both you and BlackestLily.
 
As someone who's gotten rather cranky with the creepers myself in the past, I'm going to respectfully disagree with your implied assertion that we need to be "nice" to these people.

No, we don't. For several reasons.

First, lack of objection implies approval. And if you've been here long enough you should know that there's a lot of crap that the sneakier/creepier members of this forum try to float under the radar in pursuit of their own gratification. I don't care who thinks I'm a jackass for it; I'm not going to stand here and watch people collaborate on how best to pry personal information out of a celebrity without her knowing it, or figure out the best way to videotape pedestrians without being caught, or any number of a hundred other schemes that cross this place on an almost daily basis. These people aren't respecting the folks they're inflicting this crap on, and they certainly aren't respecting us if we/when object. I've been called self-righteous in the past, but in my opinion there are some things that we as a community should not accept by silence.

Secondly, just because the TMF is their only place to vent, that doesn't mean that they should either misuse the forum (spam, post non-starter topics that no one can discuss, put stuff in the wrong section, etc.) or harass the other members, which some of these folks do.

It's up to the old guard to teach new members how to behave. Unfortunately, I think a lot of said old guard simply has no patience left for the stalkers who come here looking for a cheerleading squad to encourage their latest endeavor to trick coeds into letting them sniff their feet in the mall.

On the other hand, playful joking doesn't translate very well on the Internet, so a lot of what you may perceive as people being nasty may, in fact, be people being funny. Or trying to be funny, anyway. You have to have a sense of humor after wading through the sixtieth badly-typed, non-punctuated, rambling fantasy about some guy's mother-in-law and how he wants to see her get her nails done in the back of a DeLorean while a goat licks cheese off of her knuckles, or the dude who feels the need to remind everyone that he has no standards whatsoever and will proposition anyone who comes within five feet of his posts.

And honestly, there's nothing wrong with suggesting someone get help. Granted, some folks may not do it very tactfully, but if your fetish really is that big of a problem for you, this is not the place for you to be because we can't help you or have the training to properly deal with you. I think, though, the only time I've ever seen someone suggest that in any way but nicely was towards someone who, for all intents and purposes, probably should have been under sedation. Not that we'd know, of course... but if you're going to type like you have heads in your freezer, expect people to assume you do.
 
The Golden Rule will always be violated in one way or another, and so with the 10 commandments. The world will always be like that, virtually or not. A lifesaver has to punch a drowning person once in a while in order to save him. I learned this in the past after attending a workshop.

Tolerance is a virtue.

-o0o-

On a side note, Phineas made sense a lot.
 
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Easier said than done

Operator, your comment may inspire a few individuals to think twice before saying something out of line. But others will either ignore it or think you are talking about someone else, not them.

It's not easy to do, but rather than take the bait we just simply ignore the sarcasm, etc., and post as if such remarks do not exist.
 
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This, 100%


Phineas said:
As someone who's gotten rather cranky with the creepers myself in the past, I'm going to respectfully disagree with your implied assertion that we need to be "nice" to these people.

No, we don't. For several reasons.

First, lack of objection implies approval. And if you've been here long enough you should know that there's a lot of crap that the sneakier/creepier members of this forum try to float under the radar in pursuit of their own gratification. I don't care who thinks I'm a jackass for it; I'm not going to stand here and watch people collaborate on how best to pry personal information out of a celebrity without her knowing it, or figure out the best way to videotape pedestrians without being caught, or any number of a hundred other schemes that cross this place on an almost daily basis. These people aren't respecting the folks they're inflicting this crap on, and they certainly aren't respecting us if we/when object. I've been called self-righteous in the past, but in my opinion there are some things that we as a community should not accept by silence.

Secondly, just because the TMF is their only place to vent, that doesn't mean that they should either misuse the forum (spam, post non-starter topics that no one can discuss, put stuff in the wrong section, etc.) or harass the other members, which some of these folks do.

It's up to the old guard to teach new members how to behave. Unfortunately, I think a lot of said old guard simply has no patience left for the stalkers who come here looking for a cheerleading squad to encourage their latest endeavor to trick coeds into letting them sniff their feet in the mall.

On the other hand, playful joking doesn't translate very well on the Internet, so a lot of what you may perceive as people being nasty may, in fact, be people being funny. Or trying to be funny, anyway. You have to have a sense of humor after wading through the sixtieth badly-typed, non-punctuated, rambling fantasy about some guy's mother-in-law and how he wants to see her get her nails done in the back of a DeLorean while a goat licks cheese off of her knuckles, or the dude who feels the need to remind everyone that he has no standards whatsoever and will proposition anyone who comes within five feet of his posts.

And honestly, there's nothing wrong with suggesting someone get help. Granted, some folks may not do it very tactfully, but if your fetish really is that big of a problem for you, this is not the place for you to be because we can't help you or have the training to properly deal with you. I think, though, the only time I've ever seen someone suggest that in any way but nicely was towards someone who, for all intents and purposes, probably should have been under sedation. Not that we'd know, of course... but if you're going to type like you have heads in your freezer, expect people to assume you do.
Click to expand...
 
Someone needs to give me some tl;dr translations of these posts.
 
my problem with the creeps is the people who sign up to the forum, don't contribute anything and just spam pm's out to girls asking if they wana meet and could they send pictures of their feet...

an ex of mine from this forum actually, told me she used to recieve about 30-40 pm's a day. sure you can block people and delete messages but would you want to be doing that EVERYTIME you logged on too the tmf?

and i think thats a big reason why we do not have that many active female members of this forum because they either get fed up or intimadated by the creep community....


thats my problem with them...

and what you said OP about people getting hated on for either concerns or views i totally agree with you 100%

if you have nothing nice to say (unless it is constructive criticism) ur better off not saying anything at all...
 
I will simply say this. I have been here a long time. I was here under a different screen name back in the first years. I came back again and I love this forum.

I have met many excellent people and I have never had to say anything derogatory to any of them. As Rebel said above, most of the people that do that are not active members. They just spam. There is a personals section. Use it. Otherwise, if you are wanting to hook up with someone on the forum, send them a message and ask if you can meet. There is no problem there. You never have to be a perve while you do this.

I understand this is a fetish forum. I sometimes forget that while having fun in Silly Stuff or the like. I get used to the perople not the fetish. (not that I do not like the fetish but there are people behind their fetish) Everyone wants to be treated respectfully. Having a fetish does not give anyone the right to treat another fetishist like monkey dung. That is my only problem with some of the posts I have heard and seen to some of my lady friends here on the forum. I have met several of them and they are a lot of fun and most are very open to having some play and a good time. There is no reason ever in life to be disrespectful to someone just because you want to get your groove on. You catch more bees with honey!

I agree that there is a lot of hatred at times here. I have lost myself on two occasions only because I was defending someone that was being treated like crap. I try and stay out of arguments when It does not directly impact me. I have felt guilty both times I have lashed out because quite honestly, that is not the person I am.

This is a good thread however and you pose a great argument Operator. I am anxious to see what others think.

Best wishes always.
 
your ideas are wonderful...yep completely unrealistic.


You say people should be able to regulate their behavior. Problem is there are over 100,000 members and anytime you have a population that large there will always be malcontents, troublemakers, those who like to stir-the-pot etc. etc.

That in essence would be like expecting a town of anysize to expect all its residents to self-regulate themselves and have no need for police, a goverment to make the rules and a place to contain those who don`t abide by laws .

Lets face it....there are tons of weirdos, creeps and any other words you would like to call them . Some sad sad individuals enjoy trying to bring others down just to make themselves feel better .

Others have no real life; just look at the amount of people here that seem to be on the forum 24/7 .

Then there are people that like any attention , good or bad; and ripping on others is the fastest track to the attention they so crave.
 
Operator said:
For every person here who through positive upbringing or trial-by-fire in the real world has developed the social savoir-faire that we have come to see as common and often have difficulty understanding why others can't "behave", there is at least one of the other category. Introverts. Social failures. Creeps. People for which the TMF is their only fetish outlet, because in real life they lack the common etiquette to convince their desired parter to partake.
Click to expand...

This is a pretty small, picky thing, but I'm sort of annoyed that you classify introverts and awkward people as creeps. I will admit that I'm awkward and somewhat lacking in the social skills department, but I do not at all consider myself creepy. There is a HUGE difference between someone who's socially awkward and someone who randomly PMs girls asking for pictures of their feet.

That's all.
 
People for which the TMF is their only fetish outlet, because in real life they lack the common etiquette to convince their desired parter to partake.
Click to expand...

So....we should accept their etiquette-less behavior online because they won't come far with it in real life and are just poor guys? Not such a good idea! They might get the impression that it is okay to behave the way they do and try it offline!
 
You can pick apart the OP and find phrases that you disagree with all you want - but really the overall message is pretty indisputable, in my opinion. There's way too much hostility around here, and we'd all do well to think before we respond. It may be tempting to reply to a ridiculous post with sarcasm or insults, but really that's just adding to the problem. You can tell people they're being inappropriate or coming across a certain way without sinking to their level. I think that's the whole point here.
 
I feel the same way here when I'm at a concert or a movie. In a sense, I'm with people who are, for the most part, strangers yet I know that we're all here for the same reason because we at least have one thing in common.
 
I can see both sides of this argument. I tend to prefer a polite response over sarcasm but I'm also not going to lie. If someone says "What would you do if I grabbed your feet on the subway?" my response is not going to be "I would tell you that is inappropriate" because regardless of what would be polite - that would piss me off AND it annoys me that anyone might think that behavior is okay. My response might be cruel but it might also prevent this person from grabbing some poor woman's feet on the subway.

Also - as a newbie on a few different kink sites, my tolerance for bullshit is about zero. I don't attack members for nothing but I'm sick of the one-liner PMs stating things like "Let's meet so I can suck your toes." or "I'm interested if you are." or my favorite "Watch out for the creeps baby - I can teach you everything you need to know." BLECH!!! I feel sorry for the girls who don't know any better and assume that the rest of the men behave the way these silly boys do.

Okay - sorry - rant over 🙂
 
I pretty much agree that people shouldn't be dicks. Some would say that in some cases, it's a bit obscure, but in other cases, it's pretty obvious that they are intentionally trying to prevoke or insult. Now, don't get me wrong. Given the right topic, people can get pretty hostile and agressive, but it's mainly the people who have a repeated history of such actions which are the problem.
 
Thank you on both sides for putting this much thought into the reply to my thread. There are valid points on both sides and while I do not generally reinforce points made for the common defense, there are a few that need clarification before I leave this space for other members to hash out.

1) AmericaRocks: I see why you thought I meant that, and I apologize. There are many introverted and socially awkward people who are not creepers, and actually quite nice people. I meant the other direction of correlation- that creepers tend to be introverted and socially awkward. All squares are rectangles but not all rectangles are squares, etc.

2) In the opposition there seems to be the overwhelming perception that because I am against using hateful, sarastic, degrading replies to coerce a poster into proper conduct, I am in some way ruling out the only option other than compliance/cooperation. Phrased like that, the fallacy of logic should become clear.

I'm not saying it's easy to seek another option. I'm not saying it's right to allow creeper conduct to continue. I am not saying that the odds are in the favor of the "good" forum members, who are clearly outnumbered here as has been pointed out.

I am saying that if someone spoke to me in person in the way that some people post replies to creepers here, regardless of *what* my conduct was, I would probably inflict serious damage upon their body and psyche as a result. The knights errant seeking to fend off the evil horde should endeavour to not lump themselves into another distainful category, that of the person slinging insults at someone from immeasureable distance without proper restraint befitting the kind of people we would like to see this forum populated with.

Thank you again for reading, replying, and thinking on the subject, even if I have effected no change.
 
I agree that it's getting hostile, and also that I wish people would regulate themselves more.

I have to disagree with some here saying it's futile. It's hard, but not impossible enough not to try to amend it or even acknowledge it's happening. Even if there are tens of thousands of people here, a good chunk are repeat accounts, people who don't even come here anymore, etc. There is a core of regular posters with some lurkers throwing in 1 post in certain sections every so often. I think saying "it's impossible" just gives a nice free walkway to people who can be pretty damn rude.

And I also agree...there is some AWKWARD stuff being posted in here. Yeah, sometimes it makes me mad or has me thinking, "Good...god." But I try to be as pleasant as possible about how I feel about it. Niceties first, boxing gloves later. The only time I really recall boxing gloves first is when someone was attacking someone else, or a group of people, but that's neither here no there. :yayzorz:

In short, I agree OP.
 
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