Tickle fetish easy to have?

[miskiduk]

How dare you talk about Hitler!

Nazis!!!!!!!!!!!

Let the second off-topic derailing begin......

PMSL.
Ok, then...
What the fuck did you say about single-mothers being sluts and raising future criminals?

 

[Inverse]

First two posts in this page, good thread derails. Last two, not so much. x3

 

[miskiduk]

First two posts in this page, good thread derails. Last two, not so much. x3

LOL, I apologise. I've enjoyed reading this discussion so far (hence posting in it a few times myself). My warped British sense of humour gets the better of me sometimes and I was powerless to resist.
I *cough* promise it will never happen again

 

[rhiannon]

But it seems that for whatever reason, she can't explain what she finds "fucked up" in what I do without comparing it to pedophilia.

I explained why I find it fucked up. You just find it okay when it comes to your own doing, but when others do it, it's apparently fucked up. That is what I am trying to point out.

I've been since ignoring her references to pedophilia because it doesn't pertain to what we're discussing

Wrong. You ignore my references because you know if you actually stuck to your own logic you'd be losing the argument, because you can't explain what the difference is except that it is a different sexual preferrence.

 

[mabus]

PMSL.
Ok, then...
What the fuck did you say about single-mothers being sluts and raising future criminals?

WHAT?!!!! How dare you saybthat to me!!!!

I'm so pissed off, I can't even spell "say that!"

You're so politically incorrect...I love it!

It's time for a cookie!

 

[rhiannon]

Can't find a cookie-smiliey, but I guess a chocolate bunny will do just as well!

 

[miskiduk]

WHAT?!!!! How dare you saybthat to me!!!!

I'm so pissed off, I can't even spell "say that!"

You're so politically incorrect...I love it!

It's time for a cookie!

Damn! I've only just apologised for my behaviour and now you're tempting me again so soon.
Hail Mary...ouch
Hail Mary...ouch
Hail Mary...ouch

 

[DontAskJusTckle]

I explained why I find it fucked up. You just find it okay when it comes to your own doing, but when others do it, it's apparently fucked up. That is what I am trying to point out.

The reason you're having so much difficulty doing so is because I never said nor implied any such thing. You've no basis whatsoever for such a position and so you struggle making it.

Let me clarify. We're talking about people like me deliberately engaging in consensual tickling exchanges with people who don't know that sometimes it turns me on sexually, depending on the person.

You seem to think this is no different than a closet pedophile copping feels from kids under the guise of similar horseplay. This surprised me at first, until it became clear you regard pedophilia as just another fetish, just one that's more taboo. I don't believe that. What's more is that I believe you'll have a hard time convincing people of that, even on this forum where deviancy is the norm.

You said to me, "You just find it okay when it comes to your own doing, but when others do it, it's apparently fucked up." This is absolutely wrong. I have no problem with people doing what I'm doing. I DO think it's fucked up when pedophiles fondle kids whether they hide their pedophilia or indulge it openly. I'm not doing either. I'm not involving children at all. So the comparison is invalid.

Wrong. You ignore my references because you know if you actually stuck to your own logic you'd be losing the argument, because you can't explain what the difference is except that it is a different sexual preferrence.

All right, I'll spell it out even more simplistically.

Here are the two scenarios you are comparing:

Dontaskjustckle: Indulges in consensual tickling with adult friends and family members while deliberately hiding his sexual interest in it. He doesn't give any sign that the tickling is anything more than fun and games.

Pedophile: Tickles children under the guise of horseplay but secretly gets off on it. He doesn't give any sign that the tickling is anything more than fun and games.​

According to Rhiannon, the only difference between these two scenarios is a sexual preference. Well, any pedophile could claim that about what he does. "Why are you persecuting meee? I just have a different sexual preference!! This is discrimination!! Waaahh!!!"

The problem is that this particular sexual preference is illegal in all 50 states and indeed in most of the world, so can we once and for all stop pretending it's just another preference?

Okay, back to the two scenarios. We'll add in a new hypothetical factor equally to both scenarios: Both Dontaskjustckle and Pedophile come clean about their sexual inclinations toward the tickling from the onset. So now we have...

Dontaskjustckle: Indulges in consensual tickling with adult friends and family members while openly admitting his sexual interest in it. Some find it amusing and are okay with it. Others not so much, and decline to participate based on this information. No crime has been committed.

Pedophile: Tickles children after openly admitting he's a full blown pedophile. He openly confesses that tickling children really excites him sexually. Since he is touching the children, it qualifies as fondling. A serious crime has been committed.​

So there is a huge difference here. With me, the only objectionable issue is one of non-disclosure. With the pedophile, his guilt is the same whether or not disclosure occurs.

I've now answered Rhiannon's questions about how I'd feel about a pedophile tickling kids on the sly and I've also shown that my scenario is not a valid comparison with that of the pedophile. My apologies for indulging yet again this off-topic tangent.

 

[Tickaler]

Uhm, when I upload nude pictures of me in a fetish forum, I am fully aware that it turns guys on! 🙂 What do you think I am, stupid? 🙂 I post these pics in a ticklish spots thread because I WANT to tease! 🙂

Where would one find said pics, perchance?

 

[miskiduk]

Where would one find said pics, perchance?

LOL, they are obviously an important factor in this debate. You should post your rudey nudeys again, they may well be the clincher for your argument. We'd all love to see your clincher 😀

 

[rhiannon]

until it became clear you regard pedophilia as just another fetish, just one that's more taboo

Uh, no, that's not what I think. I think pedophiles have a sexual preferrence that is illegal, and rightfully so, just like gynophagia. All I say is that they did not choose to have this preferrence, just like we did with tickling.

I have no problem with people doing what I'm doing.

When it comes to your preferrence, of course. I say if you get your sexual kicks out of anybody who has no clue about it does something morally very wrong, no matter what the preferrence is. I used the worst example to make people think about it.

Dontaskjustckle: Indulges in consensual tickling with adult friends and family members while openly admitting his sexual interest in it. Some find it amusing and are okay with it. Others not so much, and decline to participate based on this information. No crime has been committed.

Pedophile: Tickles children after openly admitting he's a full blown pedophile. He openly confesses that tickling children really excites him sexually. Since he is touching the children, it qualifies as fondling. A serious crime has been committed.

If you touch somebody for the sole reason to receive sexual excitement on your part and they don't consent - which they don't in your case because they don't know what's going on - you are technically committing sexual harrassment, maybe even assault.

So it IS illegal, of course not to the same amount of something a pedophile would do, I have no doubt of that.

You just happen to be lucky enough that you could live your preferrence without doing something wrong by simply letting your tickle-partner know what's going on. But of course you don't do that because you are fully aware that most people would not let you engage in it with them anymore. And this is where it becomes fucked up!

Would you just grab the boobs of those you tickle? I don't think so!

You should post your rudey nudeys again, they may well be the clincher for your argument. We'd all love to see your clincher

LOL, no, I will not post them again! 🙂 They are around somewhere.

 

[DontAskJusTckle]

Uh, no, that's not what I think. I think pedophiles have a sexual preferrence that is illegal, and rightfully so, just like gynophagia. All I say is that they did not choose to have this preferrence, just like we did with tickling.

I don't believe that. A baby is not born with a preference. It's something that develops. At some point in the life of a pedophile is that first time he/she indulges in lust for children. That's when the choice is made.

When it comes to your preferrence, of course.

I'm all about choice, Rhiannon. Opposite sex. Same sex. Africans. Latinos. Asians. Whips. Chains. Rubber. Whatever floats one's boat. But choosing kids is not a valid choice. It's not just another preference. That's venturing into something else altogether.

I say if you get your sexual kicks out of anybody who has no clue about it does something morally very wrong, no matter what the preferrence is.

And at the end of the day, this is all you've said. That it's morally very wrong. When I asked you to explain why it's wrong, I think you got scared or something. Put on the spot, maybe? Whatever the case, you reacted by steering the entire discussion into a left turn about pedophiles.

I used the worst example to make people think about it.

Well at least we agree that it was the worst example possible.

If you touch somebody for the sole reason to receive sexual excitement on your part and they don't consent - which they don't in your case because they don't know what's going on - you are technically committing sexual harrassment, maybe even assault.

So it IS illegal, of course not to the same amount of something a pedophile would do, I have no doubt of that.

It's not illegal if they are consenting to being touched. If it were, I imagine there would be several gynocological criminals on the loose. 🙄

You just happen to be lucky enough that you could live your preferrence without doing something wrong by simply letting your tickle-partner know what's going on. But of course you don't do that because you are fully aware that most people would not let you engage in it with them anymore. And this is where it becomes fucked up!

That's your opinion and you are welcome to it. My opinion is that it's nobody's business but my own what turns me on. I'm under no obligation to tell the woman whose beautiful body I'm massaging how much it turns me on. There's no reason I should tell the woman with whom I'm slow dancing that I'm taking in every delicious curve and contour as her body moves against mine.

As long as my touching doesn't exceed the boundaries of what's been consented, there's no foul.

Would you just grab the boobs of those you tickle? I don't think so!

Of course not. Because if I did, I'd be exceeding the limits of that to which she's consented. Surely you can see the difference?

 

[miskiduk]

I don't believe that. A baby is not born with a preference. It's something that develops. At some point in the life of a pedophile is that first time he/she indulges in lust for children. That's when the choice is made.

Just wanted to pick up on this point since I am not so sure about that, and such things interest me. Moving aside from fetishism for a moment, it is absolutely the case that we all are born with certain psychological attributes hard-wired within us. It may be wrong to refer to them as "preferences" at very early stages of development - more "propensities to preferences". The way in which these preferences manifest themselves later can be down to many different factors, social, environmental, availability of relevant material for reinforcement, and so on. If "choice" is ever one of those factors then I strongly suspect it is one of the rarer ones.
Back to fetishism again, I very much doubt I would have chosen tickling as a fetish were I to have been given any "choice" in the matter. I spent many years truly hating it about myself, and believing I was some kind of freakish pervert because of it.
Of course, now I see all you lot on here, just as freakishly pervy as me 😛
I think I kind of like it now 😉

 

[rhiannon]

I don't believe that. A baby is not born with a preference. It's something that develops. At some point in the life of a pedophile is that first time he/she indulges in lust for children. That's when the choice is made.

I don't know if you are born with a preference or not. Maybe you are! I know I got turned on by seeing people getting tickled since I was very young, maybe four, five years old. When exactly did I make the choice to be turned on by that? I didn't, neither did anybody else on this forum, neither does a pedophile. As I said before, not every pedophile actually does indulge in lust for children! Not every pedophile goes out raping children!

But choosing kids is not a valid choice.

So answer me this question: when does somebody choose to become homosexual? I know of numerous people who would rather not be homosexual because their family cast them out for it. But they didn't have that choice! They just ARE homosexual.

When I asked you to explain why it's wrong

Because you are forcing your sexual desires on unsuspecting people, that is what is wrong! You are getting a kick out of people without them knowing it, and therefore they cannot possibly consent to it! You said you indulge your fetish with your nieces. I don't know what's going on in your family, but I sure as hell know I would rip my uncle a new butthole if I found out he was technically groping me!

It's not illegal if they are consenting to being touched. If it were, I imagine there would be several gynocological criminals on the loose.

They consent to being tickled. They do not consent to you getting your jollies from tickling them.

Let's go with your example: What do you think would happen if a woman finds out her gynaecologist gets all horny while doing the exams? That he only chose the profession because he has a speculum fetish? He would probably lose his license over it, don't you think?

I'm under no obligation to tell the woman whose beautiful body I'm massaging how much it turns me on. There's no reason I should tell the woman with whom I'm slow dancing that I'm taking in every delicious curve and contour as her body moves against mine.

Massaging and dancing has sexual connotations to it already, and the women involved most likely already know what's going on (unless you are a massage therapist in the first case!). Tickling does not. Especially when you are doing it within your own family! If it has flirtatious overtones, it is a whole different story!

Of course not. Because if I did, I'd be exceeding the limits of that to which she's consented. Surely you can see the difference?

I think you don't see where it's the same! Why would you grab boobs? Because you get a sexual kick out of it. Why do you tickle people? Because you get a sexual kick out of it.

At least grabbing boobs is fair and people know immediately what you are up to! With tickling, they don't have the chance to not consent because, as I said, they don't know the background!

 

[DontAskJusTckle]

I don't know if you are born with a preference or not. Maybe you are! I know I got turned on by seeing people getting tickled since I was very young, maybe four, five years old. When exactly did I make the choice to be turned on by that?

LOL. You make it sound like it was something that just happened to you outside of your control by an external application. It would be more accurate to say you reacted positively to seeing people get tickled. At some point though, in your early childhood, you began reacting this way to seeing people getting tickled. I had similar reactions in my childhood, so I can relate.

I didn't, neither did anybody else on this forum, neither does a pedophile. As I said before, not every pedophile actually does indulge in lust for children! Not every pedophile goes out raping children!

I never said they did. Why are you injecting this irrelevant information into this discussion?

So answer me this question: when does somebody choose to become homosexual? I know of numerous people who would rather not be homosexual because their family cast them out for it. But they didn't have that choice! They just ARE homosexual.

When does somebody decide their favorite color is blue? When does somebody decide their favorite food is spaghetti? You're grasping the concept of choice in the simplest context possible. "Let's see. What will I wear today? How about...blue jeans and a sweat shirt?"

We all make choices like this every day, but the kind of choice I'm talking about is much more complicated than that and is made over time, with many variables. Maybe she decided blue was cool because her favorite aunt whom she idolized drove a blue car. Maybe that was just one of dozens of factors that weighed into this unconscious decision.

It's the same way with sexual preference. When I was a little kid, I didn't like girls and wanted nothing to do with them. But as I grew older, and saw my brother and my male friends liking girls, I decided that girls were cool and thus I began my heterosexual career.

Just because you don't remember making a snap decision doesn't mean that your mind didn't make a gradual unconscious decision.

Because you are forcing your sexual desires on unsuspecting people, that is what is wrong!

No, I'm not forcing anything. It's consensual tickling. Consensual means that they are on board with it, in case you didn't know.

You are getting a kick out of people without them knowing it, and therefore they cannot possibly consent to it!

I don't need their consent to get a kick out of them. Only to touch or be touched by them. What goes on in my own mind is nobody's business but my own. You are vilifying me for liking something too much.

You said you indulge your fetish with your nieces. I don't know what's going on in your family, but I sure as hell know I would rip my uncle a new butthole if I found out he was technically groping me!

Well, if you consented to the grope at the time, you've got no complaint. FYI, I don't grope my nieces. We do have tickle fights though. They usually win by teaming up against me. Life is good. 🙂

They consent to being tickled. They do not consent to you getting your jollies from tickling them.

Again, I don't need their consent. The jollies in question are my own, let's remember. I'll derive them as I see fit.

Let's go with your example: What do you think would happen if a woman finds out her gynaecologist gets all horny while doing the exams? That he only chose the profession because he has a speculum fetish? He would probably lose his license over it, don't you think?

First, that would be difficult if not impossible to prove. Second, you are suggesting he could lose his license for liking his job too much. Third, he'll only lose his job by either saying the wrong thing, or doing the wrong thing. If he keeps his horniness internal and doesn't express it, he's golden. If the woman decides she's not comfortable with such a doctor, that's her decision to make if that information happens to be made available to her. If he's stupid enough to blurt it out, he deserves to lose her as a patient.

Massaging and dancing has sexual connotations to it already

I see people dance all the time with no sexual connotations whatsoever. I dance with my sisters and they dance with their girlfriends. None of them are lesbians.

And while massage can be sensual and erotic, that is by no means its default context.

I think you don't see where it's the same! Why would you grab boobs? Because you get a sexual kick out of it. Why do you tickle people? Because you get a sexual kick out of it.

They are quite different. Let's say a gay man has a female acquaintance. She knows he's gay. And let's say that for whatever reason, he decides one day to grab her boobs in jest.

Even though she knows it wasn't for a sexual thrill, she's going to feel violated just the same. Why? Because he went after her private parts. That's what most women object to when their boobs are grabbed sans invitation. That their personal space was violated and private body parts were groped without her consent. In short, it's the touch itself that bothers her, not the grabber's enjoyment of it.

At least grabbing boobs is fair and people know immediately what you are up to! With tickling, they don't have the chance to not consent because, as I said, they don't know the background!

Sorry, Rhiannon. Grabbing boobs is only fair in a consensual scenario. Grabbing boobs out of the blue is never fair. Nobody is taking away her authority to give or withhold consent. She's still free to exercise it either way. Granted, she may make a more informed decision based on the knowledge of what's going on the the mind of the tickler. But there's nothing (aside from your opinion) that gives her the right or entitlement to that information.

Rhiannon. You have strong opinions about such things, so I recommend you abide by your own code of ethics.

I shall do likewise. 😉 In fact, my neighbors are holding a New Years Eve party tonight. I hope to get some good action.

 

[Phineas]

It's consensual tickling. Consensual means that they are on board with it, in case you didn't know.

...and you keep conveniently forgetting that the reason it's consensual is because you're hiding your motives from them.

I'm not going to wade into this argument again, except to relate a few points and to helpfully suggest that you do some thread searches, as your proposed scenarios of a foot fetishist becoming a nail technician, a voyeur gynecologist, and a pedophile pediatrician were already hashed out/flamed to Hellenbach numerous times on this board.

This discussion is always funny to me, because it generally devolves into two opposing points of view. The point of view held by DAJT is usually repeatedly put forth by a guy, and the point of view held by Rhiannon is usually put forth by a girl. Given all of the moaning around here about how hard it is to find a tickle partner, usually from guys, I think it's interesting that so many guys have such a hard time grasping what creeps women out. I mean, here we have women (and Rhiannon is not the only one, she's just usually the only one willing to argue it over and over) outright telling you guys what makes the uncomfortable, and the guys in question just ignore them and go right on doing what they're doing. Do you ever see a woman supporting DAJT's point of view in these arguments? Do women ever come into these threads and say "Sure, I don't mind being some guy's anonymous mode of secret gratification! What I don't know won't hurt me!"

No, they don't. And yet guys like DAJT keep saying things like "they don't need consent".

Children or not, personally? I feel the fact that someone is so adamant about doing what they feel like doing to someone else, and deliberately staging it such that the other person can't tell them no, and insisting that the other person's feelings about it isn't important to them, is disturbing.

Now, as to my second point... it has been my experience that women can generally tell whether or not you're doing something to them to get off on it. Maybe it's just me, but women can read me like a book. They know if I'm into them before I even say hello. So, if I were to flirtatiously tickle one of them, they'd know it was a flirtation whether or not I asked then to sign a waiver beforehand expressing that they were entering into this interaction with full disclosure of the possible ramifications thereof.

So, in general... I think it's pretty safe to say that if you tickle your friends on any kind of a regular basis... and those friends are of the opposite sex... they know. They may not know it's a full-blown fetish, but they know you're using an excuse to put your hands on them in a flirtatious way. And they will communicate their consent/lack thereof to you, generally by telling you to keep your hands to yourself or avoiding you if they're not okay with it.

I should clarify, here, since I have ranted on this topic in the past, that my personal objection to hiding your fetish from someone is more in the realms of outright lying or tricking people. If you think your new neighbor is cute and you give her a poke while talking to her, that's fine. Coming up with "plans" to tickle her, such as posing as a door-to-door reflexology student, is completely out of line.

Finally, I'm going to offer an anecdote from my own distant past. My oldest and dearest friend, whom I had dated in the past and knew about my fetishes, took strong objection to a bit of "horseplay" I was engaging in whereby she was on the phone and I was lightly tickling her foot to make her laugh while she was talking. It wasn't working, so I pulled off her sock. She'd said nothing at the time, but a few days later she told me that it was very offensive to her, "given how I felt about feet". In her own words, "You may as well have stuck your hand down my shirt and tried to feel my breasts".

So, yeah. Trust me on this one, and not just because I'm a self-righteous jerk, but because I hear it repeatedly from the women themselves; they want to know, and it's important. Not wanting to "jeopardize a sweet deal" is just self-serving rationalization.

 

[Fetish4Tickling]

Strange how i can mention spanking or BDSM to a woman and she will see that as kinky fun or something she would like to explore, but mention tickling and all of a sudden im a freak 🙂

Their loss!

 

[miskiduk]

The point of view held by DAJT is usually repeatedly put forth by a guy, and the point of view held by Rhiannon is usually put forth by a girl.

Interesting point, and I'd love to see that expanded upon without degenerating the argument into a silly 'battle of the sexes'. Sure, this is a separate issue to the main argument of the thread, but could prove interesting all the same.
I realise that was a sweeping generalisation of course.

Children or not, personally? I feel the fact that someone is so adamant about doing what they feel like doing to someone else, and deliberately staging it such that the other person can't tell them no, and insisting that the other person's feelings about it isn't important to them, is disturbing.

For me that summarises the whole issue brilliantly. I think the point many people often fail to realise is that something can be perfectly legal, yet totally immoral - and vice versa. I hate the current 'Lawyer's World' we are living in, and the general insistence upon turning everything into a contractable question of semantics is something, I feel, is gradually stripping away the sense of moral judgement from our society.
I believe moral judgements will typically (not exclusively) come down to "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you." The problem with this is that a fetishist is clearly going to see that question in a different light to someone without that fetish - I, for one, would love it if a girl tickled me and truly 'got off' on it, of course! However, we all know (or should all know) that it is a fetish. The way it should be approached is to ask yourself the question, "how would I feel if someone engaged in a fetish I found abhorrent unto me?" Then to realise that others could very well feel that way about yours.
Actually, being reasonable, I'm sure tickling is really quite inoffensive to most in the grand scheme of things. Therefore potentially difficult to see why it should be a problem - certainly I didn't mean to imply that tickling is abhorrent (very much the opposite for all of us on here, I'm sure). However, once you start adding any form of sexual connotation it does become a very different ball game.

 

[rhiannon]

It's the same way with sexual preference. When I was a little kid, I didn't like girls and wanted nothing to do with them. But as I grew older, and saw my brother and my male friends liking girls, I decided that girls were cool and thus I began my heterosexual career.

Of everything you said, this was the biggest bullshit I ever heard. You certainly didn't decide that you liked girls because you saw others liking girls! Most people who are homosexual come out of a very heterosexual background and they see nothing but people liking the other sex.

Nevertheless, they prefer the same sex. They do not decide they do, they just do! Most likely it is a genetical thing.

About your other examples with favorite color, favorite food etc, let me bring up a test they did with twins which where seperated after birth and brought together when they were about 20. Despite having lived in completely different family backgrounds - one grew up in a worker factory in east Germany, the other in a doctor's family in west Germany - they had gone through the same education, had the same profession, and when they had to shop in a store - each on their own, not at the same time - they even bought the same clothes!

No, I'm not forcing anything. It's consensual tickling.

Let me quote Phineas here:

...and you keep conveniently forgetting that the reason it's consensual is because you're hiding your motives from them.

I don't need their consent to get a kick out of them.

Sure, YOU don't.....you don't respect them enough to consider that THEY might want to be able to give their consent.

Well, if you consented to the grope at the time, you've got no complaint. FYI, I don't grope my nieces. We do have tickle fights though.

Because I didn't know he was groping me...because I just thought what he was doing was tickling me, instead he did it to get a sexual kick out of it. That is just creepy and sneaky and fucked up!

I see people dance all the time with no sexual connotations whatsoever. I dance with my sisters and they dance with their girlfriends.

Dancing and dancing are two pair of shoes! And you know that and you also know how I mean it! Dancing can be flirting, if done between the right people.

They are quite different. Let's say a gay man has a female acquaintance. She knows he's gay. And let's say that for whatever reason, he decides one day to grab her boobs in jest.

Even though she knows it wasn't for a sexual thrill, she's going to feel violated just the same. Why? Because he went after her private parts. That's what most women object to when their boobs are grabbed sans invitation. That their personal space was violated and private body parts were groped without her consent. In short, it's the touch itself that bothers her, not the grabber's enjoyment of it.

Not necessarily! I know of girlfriends doing to each other all the time, and they are not lesbian. I can guarantee you though, if one turned out to be lesbian, there would be a problem about it.

In addition, what Phineas said was just perfect, thank you very much. 😉

 

[DontAskJusTckle]

...and you keep conveniently forgetting that the reason it's consensual is because you're hiding your motives from them.

I'm not going to wade into this argument again, except to relate a few points and to helpfully suggest that you do some thread searches, as your proposed scenarios of a foot fetishist becoming a nail technician, a voyeur gynecologist, and a pedophile pediatrician were already hashed out/flamed to Hellenbach numerous times on this board.

I've seen many such threads on this board and on others as well. People trying to push their morals on others. It's nothing new, I can certainly agree with that.

This discussion is always funny to me, because it generally devolves into two opposing points of view. The point of view held by DAJT is usually repeatedly put forth by a guy, and the point of view held by Rhiannon is usually put forth by a girl.

What's funnier still is that women in general are at least AS GUILTY as men are when it comes to manipulation by means of withholding motive. Guys are generally open and plain about what they want. See girl. Want body. Touch. It's the girls that force us through all the games, the promises of commitment, yadda yadda. In my own experience, women are the ones who dangle us guys on puppet strings. When they do it, it's fair game. When a guy does it, it's "creepy."

Given all of the moaning around here about how hard it is to find a tickle partner, usually from guys, I think it's interesting that so many guys have such a hard time grasping what creeps women out.

You'll never hear any such moaning from me. I've never had a problem. People love tickling. It's only when guilt-ridden losers insist on blurting out "hey, I just gotta confess, I am so going to masturbate over this tickle fight later!" that they have problems. Much as you think it's the noble and honorable way to operate, the ugly truth is that most women don't want to hear about it unless you are intimate with them.

I mean, here we have women (and Rhiannon is not the only one, she's just usually the only one willing to argue it over and over) outright telling you guys what makes the uncomfortable, and the guys in question just ignore them and go right on doing what they're doing. Do you ever see a woman supporting DAJT's point of view in these arguments? Do women ever come into these threads and say "Sure, I don't mind being some guy's anonymous mode of secret gratification! What I don't know won't hurt me!"

No, of course you don't. They would much rather have the information than not have it. This is the heart of the issue. It's not the actual tickling to which they object. It's the holding back of our own feelings about it. Well sorry, but as far as I'm concerned, that information is on a need-to-know basis. If I'm intimate with the tickling participant, I'll most likely certainly clue her in once I deem the time is right, and no sooner.

No, they don't. And yet guys like DAJT keep saying things like "they don't need consent".

Just so we're clear, I'M saying that I don't need consent to privately get off on tickling or being tickled by somebody who doesn't know how much I like it. Non-consensual tickling is another issue altogether and I'm sure my good friend Phineas could point us to several of THOSE threads as well.

Children or not, personally? I feel the fact that someone is so adamant about doing what they feel like doing to someone else, and deliberately staging it such that the other person can't tell them no, and insisting that the other person's feelings about it isn't important to them, is disturbing.

Perhaps you should re-read this thread. I've heard nobody suggest tickling somebody at gunpoint, which is basically what you are describing here. Once again, we're talking about CONSENSUAL tickling. They are consenting to tickle and be tickled. They are certainly free to say no or to put a stop to it at any point during the tickling. We're not discussing rape, here.

Now, as to my second point... it has been my experience that women can generally tell whether or not you're doing something to them to get off on it.

Well if that were really the case, there would be no point to this discussion at all, would there? I can assure you, that the majority of those from whom I've withheld the information had no clue whatsoever.

I should clarify, here, since I have ranted on this topic in the past, that my personal objection to hiding your fetish from someone is more in the realms of outright lying or tricking people. If you think your new neighbor is cute and you give her a poke while talking to her, that's fine. Coming up with "plans" to tickle her, such as posing as a door-to-door reflexology student, is completely out of line.

That's pretty outrageous, I'll agree. That's nothing I would ever try, and I don't really get too excited about the people who do try because such cornball hoaxes carry such little likelihood of success. Chances are the guy will be found out and exposed, sooner or later.

Finally, I'm going to offer an anecdote from my own distant past. My oldest and dearest friend, whom I had dated in the past and knew about my fetishes, took strong objection to a bit of "horseplay" I was engaging in whereby she was on the phone and I was lightly tickling her foot to make her laugh while she was talking. It wasn't working, so I pulled off her sock. She'd said nothing at the time, but a few days later she told me that it was very offensive to her, "given how I felt about feet". In her own words, "You may as well have stuck your hand down my shirt and tried to feel my breasts".

People have strange reactions to any fetish. It's the cross we've all had to bear, Phineas. This is why I would encourage you and everybody else to exercise a little more discrimination when it comes to disclosing the information.

So, yeah. Trust me on this one, and not just because I'm a self-righteous jerk, but because I hear it repeatedly from the women themselves; they want to know, and it's important. Not wanting to "jeopardize a sweet deal" is just self-serving rationalization.

They do want to know, that's true. Do they NEED to know? That's up to the one guarding the information, and no one else. Not Phineas. Not Rhiannon. Not me.

Of everything you said, this was the biggest bullshit I ever heard.

Rhiannon, you weren't there. I was. What I've told you is the absolute truth. Not just for me, but many guys. Young boys are notorious for hating girls, at least back then they were. Cooties and all that. It took some of us a while to DECIDE they were cool.

Sure, YOU don't.....you don't respect them enough to consider that THEY might want to be able to give their consent.

It's more accurate to say I don't want to put them in such an awkward predicament that might make them feel obliged to react. I respect them too much to do that. They've consented to the tickling itself. That's all the consent I'm interested in.

Because I didn't know he was groping me...because I just thought what he was doing was tickling me, instead he did it to get a sexual kick out of it. That is just creepy and sneaky and fucked up!

You can't be groped and not know it. When you're groped, you know it. Hands in places they don't belong. Uninvited. You were tickled. And you consented to it. End of story.

 

[Fetish4Tickling]

Isn't there a place on this board for petty arguments and infighting?
if not, after this theard, there definatly should be!

Why don't we just rename this board "Pissing match.com"?

 

[rhiannon]

Rhiannon, you weren't there. I was. What I've told you is the absolute truth. Not just for me, but many guys. Young boys are notorious for hating girls, at least back then they were. Cooties and all that. It took some of us a while to DECIDE they were cool.

O my good....yeah, we ALL think the other sex is stupid when we are kids, that's just the way it goes! It doesn't mean we willingly change our minds when the hormones kick in, we don't! We are into what we are into, we don't go through a process of decision!

If that was the case, explain to me, please, why there are people becoming homosexual from a completely heterosexual background? Why are there homosexuals in countries like Saudi Arabia and Egypt and Iran where they could be imprisoned or even HANGED for preferring their own sex and where they certainly NOT see homosexual activity around? You think they decide "Oh yeah, it's going to be cool never to be able to live openly the way I want, I just need the excitement of possible execution!"?

If you can't even see this point, there is really no need trying to explain to you why it is creepy and fucked up what you're doing. Actually I believe you won't even admit to that even if you did understand what I was getting at, because then you would maybe feel bad about what you're doing.

 

[miskiduk]

Why don't we just rename this board "Pissing match.com"?

LOL. I have to say it would be terrible if every thread ended up this way. Fortunately most don't and it can be quite interesting to read sometimes. It's easily avoided by everyone if they want, but I would love to see more people's opinions - I guess most (and probably very sensibly) are just rolling their eyes and thinking "here we go again" though.
When an argument breaks out there will always be emotional responses with degrees of pettiness and (usually irrelevant) personal attacks. There's a lot of really interesting points made if you sift through it all, or (and in the case of many I suspect) can bring yourself to do so.

And with that thought I will now continue to stir from the sidelines. Apologies to anyone who is just fed up with it all...

Rhiannon, you weren't there. I was. What I've told you is the absolute truth. Not just for me, but many guys. Young boys are notorious for hating girls, at least back then they were. Cooties and all that. It took some of us a while to DECIDE they were cool.

I've no doubt it was something you felt was a conscious decision. We all like to believe we are the masters of our own destinies and will typically attribute conscious choice, as a means of justification, to many things that are beyond our control.
However, I very strongly doubt that you just started liking girls one day purely because you decided you wanted to. I'm sure life on this planet (let alone our species) would not have come so far, nor continue to propagate, if such matters were simply "decided" on an individual basis as you suggest.

 

[DontAskJusTckle]

O my good....yeah, we ALL think the other sex is stupid when we are kids, that's just the way it goes! It doesn't mean we willingly change our minds when the hormones kick in, we don't! We are into what we are into, we don't go through a process of decision!

You speak this as though it were proven fact. It isn't. Until somebody identifies a gene or chromosome that decides sexual preference, I'm sticking with the popular belief that sexual preference is a slow unconscious decision based on environment and association.

If that was the case, explain to me, please, why there are people becoming homosexual from a completely heterosexual background? Why are there homosexuals in countries like Saudi Arabia and Egypt and Iran where they could be imprisoned or even HANGED for preferring their own sex and where they certainly NOT see homosexual activity around? You think they decide "Oh yeah, it's going to be cool never to be able to live openly the way I want, I just need the excitement of possible execution!"?

Wow, I can see you don't get challenged on these boards very often. You are beginning to lose control. But we're now no longer drifting off-topic, you've completely derailed us. If you want to discuss this with me, either start a new thread or send me a PM. Fair enough?

If you can't even see this point, there is really no need trying to explain to you why it is creepy and fucked up what you're doing.

So in order for me to understand why getting tickled on the sly is "fucked up" I must first believe that homosexuals are born gay. ooookayy.

Actually I believe you won't even admit to that even if you did understand what I was getting at, because then you would maybe feel bad about what you're doing.

There isn't a thing you've said that I don't understand. I just don't agree. And no, I don't feel bad about what I'm doing because there is nothing for me to feel bad about. It's totally cool. 🙂

I've no doubt it was something you felt was a conscious decision.

I can see why you've no doubt. After all, I've got the advantage of the actual memory of it happening.

We all like to believe we are the masters of our own destinies and will typically attribute conscious choice, as a means of justification, to many things that are beyond our control.

I'm sure you speak for yourself on this matter better than you speak for me. I have no such illusions of destiny. Fate carries us where it will. But don't think for a minute that we don't make choices along the way. This is one of them.

However, I very strongly doubt that you just started liking girls one day purely because you decided you wanted to. I'm sure life on this planet (let alone our species) would not have come so far, nor continue to propagate, if such matters were simply "decided" on an individual basis as you suggest.

I'm afraid your assurances do little to sway me, but don't take it personally. This is something that took me decades to figure out. But if I may reiterate something I explained earlier which you may have missed? I don't believe decisions about preference are made with the snap of a finger. As I said, it's a long process of learning by association. Choosing a reaction to something the first few times until it becomes reflexive. Ultimately, one can't remember a time when the preference wasn't there, and so we believe it always has been.

 

[miskiduk]

As I said, it's a long process of learning by association. Choosing a reaction to something the first few times until it becomes reflexive. Ultimately, one can't remember a time when the preference wasn't there, and so we believe it always has been.

Yes, that is definitely correct. I'm not so sure that all things require a reaction to be chosen however, but I would agree that many do.
That wasn't exactly my objection though. What I am trying to say is the concept of boys liking girls (and vice versa) is far more innate than any conscious decision. Even bacteria can have different sexes, and is currently looking to be the best bet for the question of where sex evolved in the first place. To suggest that an organism without a brain would make such conscious choices is ridiculous to the extreme.
No-one, and I mean no-one, makes that particular "choice". They may very well "realise" it, but they do not "choose" it. An innate drive for reproduction was in existence for billions of years before any brain capable of making such decisions ever graced the planet. It is something hard-wired on a biochemical level.
I understand if you do not wish to take the word of some random guy on a fetish board as fact here. However, there is much research and evidence in support of this publicly available. I would invite you to check a few scientific journals on the subject before convincing yourself that you only like girls because you decided you wanted to.