Ticklish Friendship Failed. A Testimony

[lovelovelove]

Take some responsibility here, please. Stop calling yourself "not a minor molester" because you think you know yourself so much better than your actions do, and take a look at the facts. When this girl was 15 and you were 21, you sought her out to connect with her. This is called "grooming" and whether you engaged in it maliciously or not, it is what predators do.

Did you honestly believe that you were going to make her think you were less of a creep by contacting her again years later after years of being deliberately ignored? Stop deflecting with how mental illness makes this difficult and try to sincerely reflect on this. There is no way in hell you were thinking about how SHE was going to feel as a result of that decision, but rather you were fulfilling your own desire. How you desire to be perceived by her, how she makes you feel. Even now, as you say that you refuse to regret this disgusting memory you gave this poor woman, it seems clear her instincts to call you a creep were accurate.

And I beg you. Before you recede into defensiveness for past regrettable actions, reflect on your position for a moment. I truly sympathize with you that having Asperger's or being on the spectrum can inhibit social growth and advancements of maturity. This is the (one of the) reason(s) you felt so drawn to her at 15 when you were all the way 21. This is why it didn't "end bad," but rather it was inevitable that your cybertryst would fall apart, because it relied upon her lacking maturity with you - lacking adult perspective on the situation. She was in the middle of growing, and you interrupted that growth. Despite whatever condition, it is imperative that you now as an adult grow that perspective and grow from it. Good luck.

 

[ticklerokla]

My son just turned 18, and is on the spectrum probably very close to the OP. This subject is one that worries me especially after sandy hook when that guy got nationwide coverage and people became more aware of aspies. My son has been held back in school twice, so hes about to start his junior year. Ive been talking with him a lot about public perception and his own awareness that while he may mentally and emotionally be 15, the law doesnt see it that way.
OP, i hope you get some understanding and help from this situation, and im glad it didnt result in legal trouble for you

 

[ticklerokla]

My son just turned 18, and is on the spectrum probably very close to the OP. This subject is one that worries me especially after sandy hook when that guy got nationwide coverage and people became more aware of aspies. My son has been held back in school twice, so hes about to start his junior year. Ive been talking with him a lot about public perception and his own awareness that while he may mentally and emotionally be 15, the law doesnt see it that way.
OP, i hope you get some understanding and help from this situation, and im glad it didnt result in legal trouble for you

 

[magic fingers]

I think the responses have been too hard on OP. I think it's a lot to assume that a 21 year old would know that chatting online with a minor about something sexual is a big problem both legally, and in effect on the minor -- regardless of context or honest belief that this was within a friendship.

But, I think OP now realizes that it is!

Dude, don't respond to her email. You feel tempted to argue back, explain your intentions, etc. Don't -- you risk a police issue or an angry husband chasing you down. Your comment that reconciliation is next to impossible isn't quite right -- it is completely impossible. If you genuinely view it as a possibility after receiving that communication, then I'd urge you to get counseling about that. As for the topic you wanted this thread to discuss, no one is taking that up, because there simply shouldn't be any discussion with a minor about anything sexual. No exceptions, it doesn't matter if you are already friends, it doesn't matter if [fill in any blank...]. Also, if someone vanishes on you, it's almost certain that they decided to discontinue contact with you, so checking back periodically or asking her friends is a bad idea. Yes, in theory it's possible she was in a terrible accident and was not responding for that reason, but that's well south of 1 percent.

Agreed. Don't pour any more kerosene on this fire.

 

[magic fingers]

So many things wrong w/this but one sentence sticks out; "At the time we were two youths". No you weren't. You were legally an adult and she was a minor. Asperger's or not, you should've known better.

 

[Uncle Z]

Wow dudes like this are creepy lol just leave young girls alone bro

 

[Uncle Z]

So many things wrong w/this but one sentence sticks out; "At the time we were two youths". No you weren't. You were legally an adult and she was a minor. Asperger's or not, you should've known better.

Thank you! Someone said ppl were “too hard on him” like really lol the fact he didn’t let it go after the first block says enough

 

[Magnus Bane]

I have read the OPs story and, to be honest, nothing about it seems paedophile to me. What I do see is that this forum is brimming with people whose mindset is that of a real brooder hen (of whatever gender). Do you REALLY THINK teenagers DON‘T KNOW about sex?! And since when is talking about sex tantamount to sex itself and to minor molestation? To be honest, this is not what I had expected from this forum. And yes, I don‘t like it at all that teenagers were called „proto-people“ here. Sorry, guys, are you saying that a person under 18 years of age is a homo erectus or something? This is ridiculous. And I feel very sad for the young man who JUST wanted to be her friend. As to the young lady, she acted like an utter coward in my view. She started a correspondence with a guy older than herself (yes, do read with your eyes, SHE started it!) and then showed her own private correspondence to her friends. This is absurd! And I don‘t agree that adults shouldn‘t talk to teenagers about sex. This is normal. This is not molestation, but enlightenment. Don‘t think teenagers are children. They are near-adults, if adulthood is 12:00, teen age is 11:55. In the USA, for example, teenagers start having sex quite early. And in Japan, a teenager dating an adult is considering normal. This is their ages-old tradition that, in this age, you are allowed to drink sake, participate in wars and get married. Whether then or now, the teen age is still considered age of consent in Japan. As, in this forum, there are plenty of people from the most different countries, such opinions like „don‘t talk to a teenager about sex“ are bigotry to me (to say the least). This is just like, for example, a psychologist sometimes needs to explain to an LGBT teenager that his sexual orientation is absolutely normal. Bottom line, ladies and gentlemen: comparing talking about sex with sexual actions is complete and utter bigotry! So allow me to take my leave. As far as I‘m concerned, I agree with the OP and am on his side.

 

[chicago]

I have read the OPs story and, to be honest, nothing about it seems paedophile to me. What I do see is that this forum is brimming with people whose mindset is that of a real brooder hen (of whatever gender). Do you REALLY THINK teenagers DON‘T KNOW about sex?! And since when is talking about sex tantamount to sex itself and to minor molestation? To be honest, this is not what I had expected from this forum. And yes, I don‘t like it at all that teenagers were called „proto-people“ here. Sorry, guys, are you saying that a person under 18 years of age is a homo erectus or something? This is ridiculous. And I feel very sad for the young man who JUST wanted to be her friend. As to the young lady, she acted like an utter coward in my view. She started a correspondence with a guy older than herself (yes, do read with your eyes, SHE started it!) and then showed her own private correspondence to her friends. This is absurd! And I don‘t agree that adults shouldn‘t talk to teenagers about sex. This is normal. This is not molestation, but enlightenment. Don‘t think teenagers are children. They are near-adults, if adulthood is 12:00, teen age is 11:55. In the USA, for example, teenagers start having sex quite early. And in Japan, a teenager dating an adult is considering normal. This is their ages-old tradition that, in this age, you are allowed to drink sake, participate in wars and get married. Whether then or now, the teen age is still considered age of consent in Japan. As, in this forum, there are plenty of people from the most different countries, such opinions like „don‘t talk to a teenager about sex“ are bigotry to me (to say the least). This is just like, for example, a psychologist sometimes needs to explain to an LGBT teenager that his sexual orientation is absolutely normal. Bottom line, ladies and gentlemen: comparing talking about sex with sexual actions is complete and utter bigotry! So allow me to take my leave. As far as I‘m concerned, I agree with the OP and am on his side.

welcome to the forum. congratulations on your first post.

 

[Wolf]

I have read the OPs story and, to be honest, nothing about it seems paedophile to me. What I do see is that this forum is brimming with people whose mindset is that of a real brooder hen (of whatever gender). Do you REALLY THINK teenagers DON‘T KNOW about sex?! And since when is talking about sex tantamount to sex itself and to minor molestation? To be honest, this is not what I had expected from this forum. And yes, I don‘t like it at all that teenagers were called „proto-people“ here. Sorry, guys, are you saying that a person under 18 years of age is a homo erectus or something? This is ridiculous. And I feel very sad for the young man who JUST wanted to be her friend. As to the young lady, she acted like an utter coward in my view. She started a correspondence with a guy older than herself (yes, do read with your eyes, SHE started it!) and then showed her own private correspondence to her friends. This is absurd! And I don‘t agree that adults shouldn‘t talk to teenagers about sex. This is normal. This is not molestation, but enlightenment. Don‘t think teenagers are children. They are near-adults, if adulthood is 12:00, teen age is 11:55. In the USA, for example, teenagers start having sex quite early. And in Japan, a teenager dating an adult is considering normal. This is their ages-old tradition that, in this age, you are allowed to drink sake, participate in wars and get married. Whether then or now, the teen age is still considered age of consent in Japan. As, in this forum, there are plenty of people from the most different countries, such opinions like „don‘t talk to a teenager about sex“ are bigotry to me (to say the least). This is just like, for example, a psychologist sometimes needs to explain to an LGBT teenager that his sexual orientation is absolutely normal. Bottom line, ladies and gentlemen: comparing talking about sex with sexual actions is complete and utter bigotry! So allow me to take my leave. As far as I‘m concerned, I agree with the OP and am on his side.

Well, it's clear you and the OP are definitely of the same mind about this.

 

[Studious_Hustler]

This is not molestation, but enlightenment.

"Tickle Country," is that you? I was wondering when that failed child-porn vendor would start a new account lol 😛

 

[Magnus Bane]

"Tickle Country," is that you? I was wondering when that failed child-porn vendor would start a new account lol 😛

No, I don't know who you're talking about. I don't have anything to do with child porn and I'm astonished that you put equal communication without any sexual subtext on a level with minor molestation. Do you think you can only talk about sex with somebody you are planning to sleep with? Then I'm really sorry about you.

 

[Libertine]

Do you think you can only talk about sex with somebody you are planning to sleep with? Then I'm really sorry about you.

Perhaps, given the syntax of your last sentence, your own country or culture's rules are different.

But the decent thing to do (and the legal thing to do) is only to talk about sex with someone who is legally old enough to sleep with you.

 

[Teenticklehell]

The purpose of my posting my testimony here is not restoring the friendship. Whether the person in question visits this forum or not – reconciliation is obviously next to impossible. What I do intend is to spark a discussion about a problem of life which affects many people and, I’m sure, many tickling lovers among them. That adults (especially young adults) who are genuine friends to teenagers do exist. That, of course, minor molesters do exist, too. That the former does get confused with the latter. How to keep the former and avoid the latter. How the younger person can distinguish the former from the latter. How to make sure you’re safe with somebody when you’re meeting him/her. How to spot actual signs of danger and draw the line in time. How the older person can really prove (because you can pretend a lot, that’s true) that (s)he is no minor molester. How, at last, the older person can avoid being mistaken for a minor molester without being one. This is what I would like to have discussed and to discuss with you here.

You know, you'd think this was the place to find a lot of people to actually understand your situation, but it isn't. Because most people here view tickling from a purely sexual perspective.
I think I get where you're coming from though.

You can't stop people from seeing an older (male) person being friends with a younger (female or male) person as anything but sexual in nature. People are taught most of the time that a male is a sexual predator. Most people see sexuality in black and white terms even if they are into various sexual cultures. Wisdom is useless when no one follows wisdom. So, instead of being wise, you need to be smart. The smart thing to do is to do your best to not find yourself in situations like that.

Don't worry about the woman, she's a lost cause. Her mind is crystallized in an opinion that will never change unless something happens to make her deeply introspect about it. That rarely happens. You'll find more people in the future.

You can't stop opinion.

Also, your post was too long, so most people didn't get the true message.

 

[Magnus Bane]

Perhaps, given the syntax of your last sentence, your own country or culture's rules are different.

But the decent thing to do (and the legal thing to do) is only to talk about sex with someone who is legally old enough to sleep with you.

So you never talk to your friends about sex? Only to those who you intend to sleep with? Or... are you a proponent of the so-called "sex between friends" and do not befriend people with who you would not be able to sleep?
And as to the culture... a lot of people in the USA and in Europe start having sex quite early and nobody is shocked about that. I wouldn't call myself enthusiastic about that, but if there is no promiscuity and the desire is mutual, I don't see a reason to be outraged about that. Especially if two people like each other. I would point out that I am not talking about cases of paedophiia and kindly ask you not to distort my words.

 

[Libertine]

So you never talk to your friends about sex? Only to those who you intend to sleep with? Or... are you a proponent of the so-called "sex between friends" and do not befriend people with who you would not be able to sleep?
And as to the culture... a lot of people in the USA and in Europe start having sex quite early and nobody is shocked about that. I wouldn't call myself enthusiastic about that, but if there is no promiscuity and the desire is mutual, I don't see a reason to be outraged about that. Especially if two people like each other. I would point out that I am not talking about cases of paedophiia and kindly ask you not to distort my words.

At the risk of having both our posts removed, I'm responding in kind:

Are you old enough to be up this late, young man?

Because I certainly am, and first slept with a girl in 1973 when I was 17. No, I rarely bother talking to friends my own age about sex. It's naturally and rightly assumed that we've all had plenty of it over many decades, and to forestall your snickering, if necessary drugs can offer the virility of an 18 year old combined with the experience, social and otherwise, that I've racked up over the years. Or centuries, if that will amuse you.

Nor do I, unless specifically asked for advice, discuss sex with younger friends either- it would be impolite.

Kindly asking me not to distort your words? Well, clinically speaking, 'paedophila' has no other meaning than describing an attraction to the immature bodies of pre-pubescent children, so please don't sling that term around.

Hebephilia', on the other hand means someone attracted to teenage girls, and I happily admit I certainly WAS a hebephile until my early 20s. That's not necessarily a perversion .

Anyway, sex is for doing rather than talking or reading about, so good luck to you.

 

[pdfclszxcmbnvgh]

Kind of unrelated , but a few years ago I met a girl around my age in a bar. We exchanged numbers and met up a few times to play pool. In text one time we were getting kind of playfully sexual and I admitted I had a tickle fetish and she immediately accused me of being pedofile (spelling not sure how to spell it). She assumed tickling was only for kids to do. She went psycho on me and told me not to talk to her after that. A couple years later we ran into each other at the bar and I was kind and we played pool, then she invited me over , we were cuddling and she was lightly caressing me and I am super sensitive to touch and she was having fun tickling me ( she didn’t realize that was considered tickling also ). She apologized for how she was years ago. She wanted to handcuff me to her bed but I didn’t let her since we were both drinking before ( and in the back of my mind I knew she was a psycho in text before ). We didn’t hang out again after this ( she moved away ). But it ended up being a fun night of cuddling and tickling each other.

 

[Gitana]

Something that you won’t get, Magnus and OP, is that tickling is a fetish for you and perhaps for her too since it’s through that mutual interest that you guys met. Therefore, it’s is inherently sexual. It doesn’t matter that you are talking about it and not actually doing it, you role played with her and discuss the fantasy of tying her up, which is also a sexual act. You are using a child to gratify a sexual urge so it’s not innocent. If a pedophile watches porn involving children, he is still a pedophile even though he has not done anything to act on it, he is contributing to the exploitation of that child. If he were to try and engage in a sexual conversation with that child that is even worse because he is now directly contacting that child for his own sexual gratification and exposing them to concepts that they are not mentally ready to discuss with the understanding and maturity of an adult. Especially since you were 6 years older than her even given the mental disorders there are lines that were obviously crossed. She trusted you when she didn’t know better and her reaction to you once she got older tells it all.

 

[chicago]

So you never talk to your friends about sex? Only to those who you intend to sleep with? Or... are you a proponent of the so-called "sex between friends" and do not befriend people with who you would not be able to sleep?
And as to the culture... a lot of people in the USA and in Europe start having sex quite early and nobody is shocked about that. I wouldn't call myself enthusiastic about that, but if there is no promiscuity and the desire is mutual, I don't see a reason to be outraged about that. Especially if two people like each other. I would point out that I am not talking about cases of paedophiia and kindly ask you not to distort my words.

It's interesting. I think most people were suggesting just to talk about sex with adults meaning of legal age (those who you would sleep with or would not), but you came to understand it as only people one is looking to have sex with. I find that pretty telling.

 

[Wolf]

In a different career, years ago, I used to facilitate peer group counseling sessions for sex offenders. I used to hear a lot of the same arguments we're seeing here:

"Mentally, I'm a lot younger than my chronological age"
"We were actually equals"
"It's not pedophilia, it's hebephilia"
"In other countries, this is no big deal"
"They actually initiated - " (the thing the offender wanted to happen)
"The conversations weren't sexual" (in that the minor didn't know it was sexual to the offender)
"(The minor) should have / never told me (the adult offender) that they didn't want that"
"I didn't see anything wrong at all, now that they were an adult"

The OP was having sexual conversations with a minor. Just because the content isn't considered sexual by most people, and the OP didn't intend on having intercourse with the minor, doesn't let them off the hook. The OP was grooming them.

 

[asutickler]

I have read the OPs story and, to be honest, nothing about it seems paedophile to me. What I do see is that this forum is brimming with people whose mindset is that of a real brooder hen (of whatever gender).

You made a brand new account to bump a year old post by writing half a novel in defense of the OP's apparent fixation on an underage girl?

Call me a brooder hen if you will, but yikes.

 

[hiphophooray4]

"How, at last, the older person can avoid being mistaken for a minor molester without being one. This is what I would like to have discussed and to discuss with you here."

This seems like the best thing to start with in what was a fairly complicated letter.

How can one avoid being thought of as a minor molester is quite simple. DO NOT TALK TO MINORS ABOUT THINGS THAT MAY BE SEXUAL IN ANY WAY OR FORM.

Just to be clear. If the person you are speaking with is not 18 years old or more, do not discuss anything that is potentially sexual with them. AND if said minor approaches you attempting to talk about something sexual DO NOT engage the conversation, and say "I will not have this conversation with you because you are not an adult."

Speaking to the specifics of your situation:

For whatever reasons your interaction with this woman was quite literally a cascade of bad communication, fuzzy motivations on both sides, and an eventual sure fire car wreck.

Your tenacity in needing an answer to 'Why' things happened meets the exact definition of stalking in many ways. You chased this woman across most of a decade over a internet interaction that went south. That puts you in a very bad position of needing to own your socially inappropriate behavior that is problematic at best and damned scary at worst. Sometimes things end, and end due to mistakes on one or both parties part, and there is no answer as to why, or ability to clear it up. AND no one owes you either.

In such cases one walks away.

Returning to the point I opened with, "Don't interact with minors on a sexual level (Where sexual is broadly defined as being ANYTHING that could be thought of sexual)" You may ask "Why?"

Here is why. Minors are not equipped to deal with an adult on an equal footing. They lack the experience and ability to do so. As a result they are always at a disadvantage to an adult. And can be taken advantage of. While that taking of advantage might be thru the ill will of the adult, or the nativity of the minor makes no difference. It leads both into a troublesome and illegal place. It is the responsibility of the adult to end such interactions before they can start. By drawing clear lines and boundaries and holding them. Most people sidestep the entire problem by just not interacting with minors as a whole. It's too risky socially, and culturally as you have found out.

There are proper contexts for Adult-minor interactions, but never on any level that contains sexual aspects. You assumed the young woman in your letter held no sexual attitude toward tickling. YOU ASSUMED. You didn't know. And thus you wandered into the shit when she approached you on it. Then you dove into the deeper shit by tossing bondage into the mix. Another sexual topic. And that was enough for your internet friend to sit up and realize that she was off the path and in the deep woods and run away.

Minors often experiment, test boundaries and present themselves as more together and knowing then they are close to being. Which is right, they are proto-people learning who they are. But Adults that they bounce off of need to remember that they are not fully formed, and not ready for adult level things, and make sure they don't supply them.

You wanted to make friends a decade ago. But you fished in the wrong pond for them. An inappropriate pond. And you realized this. You were aware of the age issues and you took the time to build your case as to why you ignored the cultures unofficial interaction rules. Justified it to yourself as much as to us. You knew you were in a dangerous area. You need to listen to that voice when you hear it. Because it keeps one out of trouble.

Your intent could have been 100% innocent and friendly here. But what you presented as, was the exact opposite to a cultural observer.

Her parents were 100% on mark on that first termination. And that was where it should have ended. When she popped back up you should have said "Your parents didn't want us talking, and I'm honoring that until you are 18 at least and it's you choice." And left.

Your instinct is going to be to defend your motivations to me. Don't. They don't matter. What does is how the world sees you actions. And you know what that judgement is already. I'm just here to tell you why and answer your question.

You were lucky. This could have gone much worse.

Myriads

100% correct right here ☝️ i dont think its humanly possible to be explained any clearer.

 

[duderino84]

Is there a TL;DR to this? After a while it all blends together.

 

[Navelgazer11]

Is there a TL;DR to this? After a while it all blends together.

Don’t bother. It’s exhausting.