Two types of people in the world. Strong and weak?

[Cosmo_ac]

I was having a discussion with my brother just a little while ago, and we were talking about people. He and I both have very strong views on the topics we discussed. He feels that people don't change their situations because they are weak. I feel that they sometimes do not have the tools to change their situation. For an example, the conversation that started the discussion was that one person we know cheated with another. Casually we were talking, and he said that there was no excuse for such acts. I said that while I disagree with cheating, i can understand if the person is in an abusive relationship. His response was that there was no excuse to remain in an abiusive relationship, and that those who did were weak and scared. We argued/debated for a good 35-45 mins, and covered a large area of topics about personal change and such (He doesn't believe that genetic influence has merit. Ie, just because your genetically inclined to drink, you still have to choose to pick up a bottle) before we finally ended the discussion.

So, yeah, what say you on the issue?

 

[Flatfoot]

I don't know if I'd label people strong vs. weak, but I believe that there's "Type A" and "Type B" personalities. The ones who will be most inclined to initiate change in their lives are Type A people. I also strongly believe in choice and free will. I try to hold an Objectivist mindset, which basically suggests that everyone's personal, moral happiness is their own responsibility. I figure some people are going to have to make tough choices in life--some tougher for them than for other people, but ultimately choices they can still make. I'm not gonna suggest that people who cheat or stay in abusive relationships are weak. I've been on BOTH sides of the fence, so I'm not gonna judge. I just know that it can be challenging to step out of one's comfort zone, even if you're miserable. You gotta really want it enough to initiate it, though.

As far as people being genetically predisposed to alcoholism, this was a subject my mother and I always butted heads on. Apparently scientists have already found "the gene" that causes alcoholism. I can't help but be skeptical, though, because I can't imagine any evolutionary reason for humans to have a genetic predisposition to consume large quantities of a potentially toxic substance. I'm no scientist, though, so my skepticism has no logical basis.

 

[phant0m]

Different people will be strong or weak in different situations. A man can be born in the inner city, work to avoid drugs and gangs, graduate from high school, join the army to pay for college and then land himself in the middle class only to have his first born daughter die at the age of five from an incurable disease. This man then turns to alcohol, loses his job, his wife leaves him and now he's a bum on the street. Who the fuck is some random person (i.e. your brother) to judge whether this man is strong or not?

 

[Jagermeistered]

Different people will be strong or weak in different situations. A man can be born in the inner city, work to avoid drugs and gangs, graduate from high school, join the army to pay for college and then land himself in the middle class only to have his first born daughter die at the age of five from an incurable disease. This man then turns to alcohol, loses his job, his wife leaves him and now he's a bum on the street. Who the fuck is some random person (i.e. your brother) to judge whether this man is strong or not?

I have to agree with this...

A person can be born strong and become weak. Also, a person can be born weak and become strong. Let's also not forget the upward/downward slopes in between! I have to disagree with your bother, and that is because he fails to allocate the variables of time and psychology/physiology into his "constant" equation of human action.

 

[love feet]

labeling people is not good!.

 

[DontAskJusTckle]

I gotta go with the bro, particularly about the alcoholism. Genetically inclined to drink? Come on. Who could believe such nonsense?

 

[kis123]

I have to agree with this...

A person can be born strong and become weak. Also, a person can be born weak and become strong. Let's also not forget the upward/downward slopes in between! I have to disagree with your bother, and that is because he fails to allocate the variables of time and psychology/physiology into his "constant" equation of human action.

This^

Some people (like your brother) see only in black and white while others see shades of gray. If that works for him, great but he shouldn't expect the rest of the world to comply with it.

I've seen some people born and raised in some pretty awful circumstances that caused them to spend most of their lives living pretty weak. Either through self education or someone coming along to tell them they can live better than they are, they turn their lives around. I don't hear your brother accounting for those people.

I've grown up with people who were raised well with the best resources available to them. Children of doctors, lawyers, businesspeople...good money spent on education, housing, cars, etc. They turned out to be stone-crazy, some of them in jail or dead from drugs and alcohol. Or they married abusive men.....two graduates were killed last year within two weeks of each other.

It's not about being strong or weak, it's about the power of choice, free-will, and decision making that'll bring good or bad outcomes. A person can either learn from those choices and improve the quality of their lives, or they can wallow in them, make excuses, and blame others for their circumstances and continue to live low. That's how I separate the strong from the weak, not out of pride and arrogance.

 

[LD_Tickler]

I was having a discussion with my brother just a little while ago, and we were talking about people. He and I both have very strong views on the topics we discussed. He feels that people don't change their situations because they are weak. I feel that they sometimes do not have the tools to change their situation. For an example, the conversation that started the discussion was that one person we know cheated with another. Casually we were talking, and he said that there was no excuse for such acts. I said that while I disagree with cheating, i can understand if the person is in an abusive relationship. His response was that there was no excuse to remain in an abiusive relationship, and that those who did were weak and scared. We argued/debated for a good 35-45 mins, and covered a large area of topics about personal change and such (He doesn't believe that genetic influence has merit. Ie, just because your genetically inclined to drink, you still have to choose to pick up a bottle) before we finally ended the discussion.

So, yeah, what say you on the issue?

I could go on for a while, but I won't. You're right, your brother is wrong. His perspective is shallow and tautological.

 

[Cosmo_ac]

I gotta go with the bro, particularly about the alcoholism. Genetically inclined to drink? Come on. Who could believe such nonsense?

Scientists, actually. But we should probably make another thread in the P&R forum if we want to continue on this path.

 

[Snail Shell]

There are 10 types of people in the world, actually: those who understand binary and those who don't.

SS

 

[c7_assassin]

I don't think genetics or society have any bearing on the question one way or the other. We're all here, we get one shot at life, and somebody will always have more of an excuse for failure than you do. Ultimately we're responsible for what kinds of people we become. It's all about choice.

I've always suspected that people who want to blame their problems on circumstances beyond their control are born losers...but then, it's probably also true that people with unfair social advantages prefer attributing their success to 'strength' and their own willpower. Most of us choose to believe whatever flatters our egos.

Also:

I can't help but be skeptical, though, because I can't imagine any evolutionary reason for humans to have a genetic predisposition to consume large quantities of a potentially toxic substance. I'm no scientist, though, so my skepticism has no logical basis.

As I understand it, it's the opposite. A lot of people have developed a genetic tolerance to the effects of alcohol, while others are prone to abuse it. Non-alcoholism is the product of human evolution.

 

[Kunzite]

I think that it is within any person's ability to change their situation if they truly want to, regardless of what traits they are "born with". But regardless, getting out of many bad situations can be very hard for anyone. A good illustration of this is an article I read earlier on "5 Things Nobody Tells You About Being Poor":

http://www.cracked.com/blog/5-things-nobody-tells-you-about-being-poor/

 

[Rusty Shackleford]

Nah, believe it or not it's still survival of the fittest, but on a different scale now that we've healthcare and laws and whatnot... the strong continue to "eat" the weak, even today.

I mean, either you got it or you don't, and everyone knows where they stand with that one.

 

[Rusty Shackleford]

Oh, and I really like this guy John Cheese... he has other articles up that I like:

http://www.cracked.com/article_19030_quitting-smoking-6-things-you-notice-about-stupid-world.html

http://www.cracked.com/article_18824_5-things-nobody-tells-you-about-quitting-drinking.html


cracked is great

 

[LD_Tickler]

Anyone who honestly thinks that everyone is born with equal opportunity in life - whether it be anyone in the world or anyone in a single country - is a total fool.

 

[stroker]

Anyone who honestly thinks that everyone is born with equal opportunity in life - whether it be anyone in the world or anyone in a single country - is a total fool.

Agreed . the world is not a level playing field unless we really believe that a third world peasant breaking his back in conditions we couldnt have nightmares about actually 'chose ' to be (along with 99.9% of his compatriots) what we in our ivory towers would deem a loser.

 

[LD_Tickler]

Agreed . the world is not a level playing field unless we really believe that a third world peasant breaking his back in conditions we couldnt have nightmares about actually 'chose ' to be (along with 99.9% of his compatriots) what we in our ivory towers would deem a loser.

Or that he's not a successful business man because he doesn't want it enough.

That's an extreme example of course - lots of people even within the same country face completely uneven challenges.

 

[Jagermeistered]

Anyone who honestly thinks that everyone is born with equal opportunity in life - whether it be anyone in the world or anyone in a single country - is a total fool.

That is what the Egalatarians believe! Thus, they are the extreme fools of the species!

Their is no such thing as equality... If their was; the human race would still be in caves, and scared of the 'natural world'.

 

[Jazzland]

Agreed . the world is not a level playing field unless we really believe that a third world peasant breaking his back in conditions we couldnt have nightmares about actually 'chose ' to be (along with 99.9% of his compatriots) what we in our ivory towers would deem a loser.

Double plus