WTF??! (Drunken Rant of a Mistress On The Edge)

[ticklishscribe]

To add my two feathers worth and to say how I handled it on those rare occasions when it's happened to me.

I ignored them it was as simple as that and I feel that if we all ignore them, they'll go away. All they want is an audience and if we don't give them one, they'll leave.

Love to you all and thanks to all the moderators for all the hard work and long hours they put in on our behalf.​

 

[PainTrain]

I agree with the original post, but at the same time... If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen... and stay out.

 

[Iluv2Btickled]

"But I've never seen the Tickling Illuminati point a bony finger at some noob member and say "They shall forever wander, never to find a lee or ler! SO BE IT!" *lightning crashes*"

"You are a stranger. A name and a possible gender."

These two things made me giggle out loud. Too funny. 😀

Just for fun we should start a group and call it "Ticklluminati" just for the sake of having a group w/ that name..


oh and off course all would be welcome 😀



I too want to know where this clique is....who's in it? How many members?

 

[tkrexx]

Whew, didn't expect this thread to last so long.

Makem, ya got me curious too. While I agree with your thoughts on the clique mentality (Which I loathe, both on the net and IRL) to some extent, I gotta wonder about your notions towards those of us that have been here a while. When I see you in the chatroom I always say hey, and I laugh at some of your remarks. I've never had a problem with you, nor seen you create a problem for others, nor seen anyone make a problem for you. Could be I've missed it. From what I've seen, you're well accepted.

This is especially confounding when nearly all the things you and I refer to I see coming from those who haven't been here as long as I. Granted, I've been invovled in the community a long time, before the net, even before Myriads due to a slight age gap. I understand how it may be easy to snap at Myriads, he's the Tzar. Honcho. Sergeant Major. People are gonna treat him good no matter how they treat others when he's not around. Due to his stripes he's automaticaly in the clique, whether or not he knows it or participates in it. The same with the Mods.

I saw a bunch of Mods joining in on a post hailing the praises of a highly devisive member recently, using words like "Mature, intelligent, kind and sweet," along with other well-crafted, intentionally highbrow flattery, while referring to the rest of us as jealous, childish morons, cretins, toilet scum, etc, because their remarks about the member fly in the face of what most of the Forum has experienced. The Mods clearly had no idea, because the member is clever enough to not allow the Mods to see the verbal butchery many of us witness. This is especially true when members like this amass in the chatroom. They form gangs. Gangs with fangs. And they find bloodletting amusing. I'm sure they have the chat equivalent of a high-five worked out. It's possible these folks have been here longer than you, but not longer than me. I'm saying you can't attack the Mods for things they're not aware of.

Most of the Old Heads have been around long enough to develop enough maturity to move past the "I'm better than you 'cuz I've been here 2 weeks longer!" mentality. In fact, most the Old Heads don't post a whole lot, and visit the chatroom infrequently. Some of them say the chatroom is a cesspool, that's why. Others just don't feel the need to be sucked up to just because of their status.

It's easy to summon the old "If ya can't stand the heat" standby, but I remember when this was a flame-free forum. Dismissing members because they somehow can't admire rudeness is a hallmark of clique mentality. That was difficult for me to say, Gremio, because I've never seen you act any other way than respectful. I hope there's no offense taken. Strider and Tickledgirl, if you haven't noticed the bullying, it's apparently not directed at you. Strider attends gatherings and is well-respected by most members, and from what I've seen, deservedly so. Tickledgirl and Iluv2Btickled, I don't recall alot of interaction with either of you, but let's face it, you're Women! Like it or not, you're a rarity, a commodity. People WANT you to like them. They're not gonna show you their bad side.

I'm not gonna blame the Mods (Well, most of them anyway) for these antics. Not only is it a hell of a chore just being a Mod, but they're forum members also. They come here for the same reason the rest of us do. It's gotta be a drag coming here for relaxation and enjoyment only to be pulled into this petty disagreement or that. I'd rather the Forum at large deal with the pains, instead of fearing reprisal. Members see other members being arrogant and insulting and becoming POPULAR for it, they tend to emulate. The problem thus spreads. There are too many members who promote the wars simply by supporting those who start them.

 

[Curmudgeon]

I saw a bunch of Mods joining in on a post hailing the praises of a highly devisive member recently, using words like "Mature, intelligent, kind and sweet," along with other well-crafted, intentionally highbrow flattery, while referring to the rest of us as jealous, childish morons, cretins, toilet scum, etc, because their remarks about the member fly in the face of what most of the Forum has experienced. The Mods clearly had no idea, because the member is clever enough to not allow the Mods to see the verbal butchery many of us witness. This is especially true when members like this amass in the chatroom. They form gangs. Gangs with fangs. And they find bloodletting amusing. I'm sure they have the chat equivalent of a high-five worked out. It's possible these folks have been here longer than you, but not longer than me. I'm saying you can't attack the Mods for things they're not aware of.

Wow, that's about as clear and concise (albeit unintentional) illustration of the problem as one could ask for, isn't it?

"Hello, Kettle; this is the Pot...."

And so it goes.....

 

[Headsnap]

Well, if THAT doesn't reiterate my point, nothing does. So if someone doesn't feel welcomed when a clique completely fails to acknowledge his or her existence, it's the NEW person's fault? Wow! So how long do you have to be a member in order to achieve that complete lack of accountability for how you treat people? Does it come with a nifty badge?
I mean, seriously, that's the type of response I KNEW I'd hear. You come onto the forum for months, popping into the chatroom day after day, only to have NOBODY respond to your comments, and it's the new person's fault that he or she happened to wander into a stuck-up, self-important pack of exclusionists? Now THAT'S amusing. And I've seen and/or heard of that happening to countless new members, and to take the high-road approach of "Well, unless you can give me exact details, I won't believe it" is much like turning a deaf ear to an obvious problem.

No, what he's saying is "Show me evidence or I can't act" which is fair enough (although one can see how you'd misread what Myriads is saying given the manner in which it was phrased). If there's evidence of someone actively going around 'ostracising' people or whatever the fudge then the moderators can sort it; if all they have to go on is a load of folk saying 'wah wah I don't got no friends on the interwebs AND IT'S ALL [insert username here]'S FAULT!' without solid proof then there really isn't much they can do. I honestly can't find any grounds to disagree with anything Myriads has said in his post, which is odd because I usually like to disagree with mods and admins just for the craic. People come here with massive expectations of meeting a close circle of friends or that special someone (or maybe even a series of someones) with whom they can share their fetish and buy roses for or what-have-you, and when that turns out not to be the case they get uptight and pissy and decide some phantom force of cliques and evil senior members are to blame because it's easier than admitting that their own social ineptitude blights their interwebs persona as much as it does their real life one.

In short you're being a tad unfair top the mods and admins in what you're saying.


Lawl I defended mods and admins. I feel all dirty now 🙁

 

[Comfort Eagle]

, but let's face it, you're Women! Like it or not, you're a rarity, a commodity. People WANT you to like them. They're not gonna show you their bad side.

 

[Headsnap]

I saw a bunch of Mods joining in on a post hailing the praises of a highly devisive member recently, using words like "Mature, intelligent, kind and sweet," along with other well-crafted, intentionally highbrow flattery, while referring to the rest of us as jealous, childish morons, cretins, toilet scum, etc, because their remarks about the member fly in the face of what most of the Forum has experienced. The Mods clearly had no idea, because the member is clever enough to not allow the Mods to see the verbal butchery many of us witness. This is especially true when members like this amass in the chatroom. They form gangs. Gangs with fangs. And they find bloodletting amusing. I'm sure they have the chat equivalent of a high-five worked out. It's possible these folks have been here longer than you, but not longer than me. I'm saying you can't attack the Mods for things they're not aware of.

People are not only cliquey by nature, they're also duplicitous. That's fine. I don't care if mods and admins are licking the arses of members who most perceive as divisive and nasty, as long as said mods and admins are conscientious enough to apply the rules to those people as stringently as they do to anyone else. Besides which, people also have a tendency to misread stuff or confuse insults/ rebukes directed at them PERSONALLY as a schismatic desire to split 'Teh Commun1ty' apart. When someone deliberately starts a flame war or incites drama for their own amusement that is divisive (to an extent). When you post cretinous nonsense and someone calls you on it, that's not divisive.

 

[tickledgirl]

I saw a bunch of Mods joining in on a post hailing the praises of a highly devisive member recently, using words like "Mature, intelligent, kind and sweet," along with other well-crafted, intentionally highbrow flattery, while referring to the rest of us as jealous, childish morons, cretins, toilet scum, etc, because their remarks about the member fly in the face of what most of the Forum has experienced. The Mods clearly had no idea, because the member is clever enough to not allow the Mods to see the verbal butchery many of us witness. This is especially true when members like this amass in the chatroom. They form gangs. Gangs with fangs. And they find bloodletting amusing. I'm sure they have the chat equivalent of a high-five worked out. It's possible these folks have been here longer than you, but not longer than me. I'm saying you can't attack the Mods for things they're not aware of.

If I'm reading your post accurately, you're saying the Mods here participated in calling members "jealous, childish morons, cretins, toilet scum"? I find that pretty amazing, and very very different from my experience of the mods. Can you post a link to that thread? (Or send it to me via PM if you'd rather not post it?)

I can easily believe that I've missed stuff because it hasn't been directed against me for whatever reason. But I find it hard to believe that people can conceal such activity. If there are posts, anyone can read them. I could be wrong, but it shouldn't be too tough for the mods to monitor or log the chat room. If you know of someone who you think is successfully concealing such hateful behavior, do as Myriads asked. Tell him, or one of the other mods.

If there really is that kind of stuff going on here, then you'll be helping to preserve TMF. And if there isn't (if you've misinterpreted something going on between others, perhaps) then telling a mod doesn't spread FUD the way non-specific charges do.

 

[Curmudgeon]

Mom! Mom! Someone said something mean to me in the tickling fetish chatroom!!!

Tkrexx was condemning the mods for taking a side in an issue regarding someone "outing" another member of the TMF to their significant other (The relevant thread has been wisely deleted, as it spiraled into an inappropriate but hilarious free-for-all). Many people (including myself) posted to decry the act, and to cast aspersions on anyone who was behind it, or applauded it. The mods did, in fact, praise the member in question, and said they would be looking in to who the guilty party was. This, apparently, is seen by some as "taking sides". Specifically, by those on the other side. I did attack, insult, and generally malign the person/people/toilet scum that not even KABOOM (tm) could remove who did this, or cheered it, and I'll do it again. In just a few sentences, as a matter of fact.

This all boils down to conduct in the chatroom.
"gangs with fangs"
"verbal butchery"
"bloodletting"

Who knew Hostel 2 had tickling in it?

Could there be more overdramatic terms? (I won't say hysterical, because that's misogynistic.) It's typing, for heaven's sake! If someone says something stupid or ignorant in the chatroom, they shouldn't be surprised when they get smacked. If they don't like it, they can turn away from the monitor, or find another "home"...you know, another place out in cyberspace with a bunch of typing. Someone disagreeing with you, or pointing out a hideous flaw in your argument, is NOT necessarily being mean!

Here's the thing;
If you lumber into the chatroom and moo something stupid, and someone says you that it sounds like a cow, and you're too ignorant to use the "ignore" button (Hello, irony!), then you should spit the cud out, grab the cord with your herbivorous teeth, and unplug your damn monitor. Problem solved, and the "mean people" disappear. Don't get your udder all sour because everyone isn't treating you exactly the way you want to be treated.
If "mean people" break the rules in the chat, aim your hoof on over to the "Prt Scrn" button, and capture the screen. Forward it to the mods. Then, the "mean people" will get busted. Simple.

Call me what you want. I know how to turn off a computer.

 

[Capnmad]

If I'm reading your post accurately, you're saying the Mods here participated in calling members "jealous, childish morons, cretins, toilet scum"? I find that pretty amazing, and very very different from my experience of the mods. Can you post a link to that thread? (Or send it to me via PM if you'd rather not post it?)

If it's the thread I'm thinking of, it's been pulled for one reason or another. But if it's the same, I think tkrexx is unintentionally mischaracterizing the matter in using the phrase, "the rest of us". In that thread, well-wishers and maybe Mods (I don't know) were offering praise to the victim and heaping scorn on the perpetrator of an alleged attack (and perhaps other detractors) that affected the member's personal life. The negative comments were not directed toward "the rest of us", but people sometimes narrowly define things into two camps -- pro- and con-... If one were someone who has been among the people attacked, run roughshod over, or otherwise impacted by the divisive member, one might well identify with the detractors, and perhaps take such remarks against their "camp" personally, and/or assume their camp to be a wide one, hence, "the rest of us" feeling. But I'm just guessing. Could just be a typo, or other error in expression. Maybe tkrexx can better enlighten us.

Capnmad with his thoughtful responses to topics,

Kind of you to mention me. Thanks.

Also once again, I ask, who is this Illuminati of tickling who are freezing people out? People keep saying clique clique clique. WHERE? WHO?

The Illuminati that can be spoken of is not The Illuminati. <--- You need one of these with just one eye!

 

[Headsnap]

The Illuminati that can be spoken of is not The Illuminati. <--- You need one of these with just one eye!

On an unrelated topic several large men in aprons with their left trouser-leg rolled up to their knee have been dispatched to your house with ceremonial daggers. None may speak of that which cannot be spoken of and live. Or so it is said. I wouldn't know, I'm just a desk clerk :-o

 

[jonsmith]

For those of you who are tired of the monotony of the TMF's ill, arrogant, acrimonious, and contemptuous attitude, I recommend...http://www.tickletheater.comThat

 

[aurora5150]

drunk or sober i applaud you for saying what you feel. and i do agree with what you said. at least there are a lot of happy fun loving people here that make it not so bad.

 

[steph]

Well. I think we see a lot of this every summer don't we? Temperatures are hot, tolerances are lower, there's a lot of stupid kids with too much time on their hands out on summer break, stirring up trouble, both here and IRL. Breathe deep friends, one more month and I think you'll see things return back to normal (whatever THAT means, round here!)
XOXO

 

[Comfort Eagle]

Breathe deep friends, one more month and I think you'll see things return back to normal (whatever THAT means, round here!)
XOXO

Yay! 😀

 

[steph]

I'm right, though, yes, babe? You've been here as long as I have...Been there, done that, burned the t-shirt... 😛
XOXO

Yay! 😀

 

[Capnmad]

On an unrelated topic several large men in aprons with their left trouser-leg rolled up to their knee have been dispatched to your house with ceremonial daggers. None may speak of that which cannot be spoken of and live. Or so it is said. I wouldn't know, I'm just a desk clerk :-o

Pfah! The left-trouser-leggers are punks! It's the ones wearing sock garters on their forearms to hold up their chartreuse angora mittens you've got to look out for...

For those of you who are tired of the monotony of the TMF's ill, arrogant, acrimonious, and contemptuous attitude, I recommend...http://www.tickletheater.com

And if it's endorsed by Jesus, it's got to be good!

Well, that should shoot the whole "thoughtful responses" thing all to Hell... 😀

...oh alright...


Regarding cliques:

Cliques are a nigh unavoidable and mostly necessary evil. While exclusionary by their very nature, the act of exclusion allows control over membership, ensuring safety and security of the members of said clique. People will naturally seek groupings for this sense of security and belonging. So, they have positive traits that shouldn't be overlooked.

The danger in cliques is when a troubled, troublesome or abusive person becomes a member of a very powerful clique. The powers within it protect the abuser and keep them not only safe from attack (which they should), but if misguided, also keep the person safe from and devoid of personal responsibility, save for loyalty to members of the clique. From the seat of power, the abuser can then inflict damage on those outside it with impunity, and need never learn how to appropriately behave beyond the bare minimum allowable by the powers within the clique. Such cliques sometimes resemble gangs and cults, but fail the definition of a functioning family, as, demonstrated by its actions, the group fails to recognize and respect the rights of those outside the clique, or the ethics of treating them appropriately. The abusers thus become a danger to others, and repeatedly reinforced by the permission and shelter granted them by the rest of the powerful clique, they're not given an opportunity to learn otherwise, and when their negative behaviors become generalized beyond the confines of clique protection, sadly, they become a danger to themselves.

Take for example, a gang member who, empowered by having had the protection and reinforcement of his posse to engage in criminal acts, engages in a crime without sufficient gang support present... Gangs have power, but without them being physically present, the individual destructive member will get arrested, hurt, or even killed.

Take Lindsay Lohan (recently posted about) -- somewhat different, as she is the leader of her posse... But her clique still reinforces her behavior, becoming "yes-men", as they know where their paycheck, meal-ticket, or exclusive party-pass comes from. People who wield the power can lose perspective and act irrationally because other clique members, for whatever reason, won't challenge them to make better decisions. As a result, in the case of Lindsay, she's had to face repercussions from which her clique could not save her.

In either event, you're nurturing the monstrous side of people, not the human side, and it's horribly irresponsible, no matter how much one gang member, one party-posse groupie, or one clique-member may, in fact, care for the other. Care without knowledge, principle, discipline or reasonable expectations can be dangerous.

I understand the need for cliques here. I just wish there were more real, families being built here in function. Families respect others and understand interconnectedness with the larger community. They see to it that their values and ideals are upheld, and don't selectively discard them for the benefit of one member or another. Nor do they gang up and attack unless their family or a member thereof has been attacked themselves. And when someone has a problem, the family can offer counsel and an outlet, rather than a person not knowing where to go and having to resort to spewing their problems all over the Forum. If there were more families here, I think that would cut down a lot on the garbage we see and that people complain about. Unfortunately, I think a lot of people here don't really understand what family is about (or maybe what principles, discipline, or reasonable expectations are about -- I don't know -- at least one of those, probably) beyond the name and the superficial features.

 

[tkrexx]

Sigh. May as well get it over with.

Curmudgeon, I really can't entirely blame you for your percieved hostilities. Check the time of my last post. 6am, on my 1st cup of coffee, and in a slight rush. Obviously I should have waited 'til such a moment when my head was clearer and time was not an issue. The post would have been much more concise, tho the essence would have remained the same.

Let me once and for all put one thing to rest: I stated my first and only opinion on "The Outing" in the chatroom, and I'll repeat it here for all to see. I hope the mongrel who did the outing winds up a prison bitch. I believe the rest of it has been repeated by many members here, so I won't reiterate any more of it. Even those members who are privately chuckling about the affair know at some level that this act was wholly wrong. The tiny percentage that don't think so haven't yet thought of how their lives would be affected under the circumstances.

Now, then.

Tkrexx was condemning the mods for taking a side in an issue

I'm not gonna blame the Mods

I'm saying you can't attack the Mods for things they're not aware of.

I thought that part was clear enough.

This, apparently, is seen by some as "taking sides". Specifically, by those on the other side.

This was the part I most wanted to address. When I first read that "Taking a Break" post, I was terribly confused. Are these people talking about the same person I know? What is it I'm not seeing? Then, what is it they're not seeing? I returned to the post sometime later. There was some name calling, directed at the perpetrator. There was some more name calling, directed at some of the victim of this crime's detractors. This eventually evolved into name calling for everyone who dislikes the victim, actually calling them out to post in that thread. It had become an all-out "Us vs. Them" thread. It was divisive. A division of the TMF like none I'd seen before. And it upset me. What started out as a cry for help had become a torch and pitchfork brandishing mob, not particular anymore who got drawn and quartered. It was taking sides. This was the perception. Glad you thought it was hilarious. When I got home from work that day the thread was gone. You and I agree, wisely. I'm happy I didn't see just how far down the toilet it had gone.

Clarification: I recall NO mod engaging in insults, with the exception of those directed at the outer. The Mods did say some things about the victim I don't agree with, but that's part of the point I made in the previous paragraph, and the previous post. The thread has been gone for several days. I can't say now who was and who was not saying what.

As for the "Pot-and-Kettle" remark, well, I gotta little challenge for ya. I can think of about 5 posts, most of them rather recently, that I had a hint of insulting behavior. ALL of them directed at Forum bullies and their supporters. Find 6 posts where my demeanor or words are abusive and/or insulting to anyone or any group of people on this Forum about their intelligence, fetishes, sexual orientation, personalities, private lives, religion or professional affiliation. I'll make it easy for you. Skip the ones where I just posted pics, and the single-sentence posts (ie, "Great pics, thanks for posting!"). Sure, I get colorful with my nomenclature, and gee, you do too! But insulting? I don't have that reputation. That's why I don't have more enemies than friends on this forum or anywhere else on the 'net. Not everyone can say that. 6 posts, and I'll buy ya lunch. And a beer to wash it down with. Y'see, I've seen a few people use ALL these items at one point or another in an insulting context towards other people here. I find it unacceptable. Nothing I'd equate with intelligent or mature, kind or sweet. And I firmly believe if a Mod had seen it they'da been down someone's throat. But hearsay is another matter.

I guess you're correct in another area, Curmudgeon, I've been ignoring the crap for too long, and clearly it's getting to me. But then again, I'm speaking my mind. That's an admirable quality in certain circles, as I understand it.

The danger in cliques is when a troubled, troublesome or abusive person becomes a member of a very powerful clique. The powers within it protect the abuser and keep them not only safe from attack (which they should), but if misguided, also keep the person safe from and devoid of personal responsibility, save for loyalty to members of the clique. From the seat of power, the abuser can then inflict damage on those outside it with impunity, and need never learn how to appropriately behave beyond the bare minimum allowable by the powers within the clique. Such cliques sometimes resemble gangs and cults, but fail the definition of a functioning family, as, demonstrated by its actions, the group fails to recognize and respect the rights of those outside the clique, or the ethics of treating them appropriately. The abusers thus become a danger to others, and repeatedly reinforced by the permission and shelter granted them by the rest of the powerful clique, they're not given an opportunity to learn otherwise, and when their negative behaviors become generalized beyond the confines of clique protection, sadly, they become a danger to themselves.

Cap, if I'da just said this, there apparently wouldn't have been a problem. Eloquent, Sir. Amen

And as I type this, I also want to say I don't want my pm box filled up with "Hoorays for Rexx!" messages about this post. I'm not trying to be anybody's hero. I don't subscribe to the clique mentality on either end of any spectrum.

6 posts, Curmudgeon. Lunch and beer. And the chance to shut me up. Unless you think I could be right.

 

[Comfort Eagle]

I'm right, though, yes, babe? You've been here as long as I have...Been there, done that, burned the t-shirt... 😛
XOXO

Yeah, I've been here awhile, seen some stuff, didn't really understand it. Much like I'm confused as hell about what's being "outed" and where the hell these "cliques" are...

 

[NavelTickler75]

Okay, yeah...

I've been to karaoke tonight and (thanks to double Absolut Citrons all night), I'm currently FUBB (f*cked up beyond belief)...but the first thing I usually do when I get home is check on what's up here...and you know, damn it, I can't hold my tongue (okay, fingers) anymore.

Here's the thing:

When the hell did TMF become such a f*cking shark pit???

I started coming here when I first "came out" because it was the only place I really felt safe. TMF was the only place I could just open up and just be myself. I felt comfortable here, like it was the one place that people LIKE ME could hear me, could understand what I felt, what I went through and could help me understand what was happening with me (thank you, Myriads! )...and the place where I could find the the things that actually turned me on, that appealed to the one part of me that no-one else could really get hold of (besides Redscript, but even he was a gift ONLY made possible by TMF)...

What's WRONG with (most of) you people???!!!!!!!!

Don't you remember what it's like to feel so alone? Don't you remember how alienated you felt--squirming when "that cartoon" came on or sometimes just even hearing the word "tickle" spoken aloud? Why the hell do you feel so righteous in making people feel stupid when they finally gain the courage to post/talk to others for the first time...? To share a picture or a story they've finally gained the courage to share, or even a fear or an offset fetish they're trying to work through and open up to tell us, to ask how to deal with? Good God, where would we all be if we'd been run through the same gauntlet the newest members of TMF are being put through???

We are 50k+ members now. Are we so bloody arrogant that we feel this is now a closed/restricted membership club, that the new people need to "pay their dues" before they're recognized as being one of us...that those who finally feel the courage to to say, "Oh, my God, I'm not alone!" should be shunted off to the side or made to feel awkward until they "prove" themselves "worthy" in our own fetish "mainstream"??

Look. The majority of this forum is like my extended family. I've shared more with you guys than I have my own mother, for God's sake. I've been blessed to find the best, closest, most intimate friend I've ever had in my entire life through TMF...but as I watch and read the recent bullsh*t (forgive my crudity), I find myself starting to actually avoid coming here unless I've been notified I have a PM or Redscript has posted more artwork. I just can't handle the fray.

Please, please, please...just take a moment and try to remember what it was like "back in the day". How it felt when you knew tickling and/or feet and/or whatever led you here was what really got to you, what took you "over the edge"...and the relief and joy you felt when you were embraced by those who shared that and understood you. Give it back now. You owe it, damn it--to MTP Jeff, to Myriads, to anybody who had the cajones to actually post a message here ever.

TMF is a haven. Remember?

Please--keep it that way.

Mistress Aura

P.S. One of the joys of being a dominant is that I don't need to feel affected by anybody who wants to tell me how wrong or "bleeding heart" I'm being. The ones who need to hear what I'm saying, will. I don't care if this subject matter is "old hat" and has been addressed in other threads...because I don't have to care. 😀 The ones who need to hear what I'm saying I know will do so.

P.S.S. Love you, Redscript...

Wow big sis, that was a lot, and I agree with you totally. This isn't a social club, its a group where people can be themselves, conservative, moderate, liberal, republican, democrat, atheist, christian, wiccan, etc. And I hope we never have to have rules here where one has to PROVE their fetish to be a part of this group. If that day ever comes, I might be tempted to slowly stop coming here too.

 

[Timewarp]

Here's the my take on the "problem".

The older members have formed bonds and cliques and fads and whatever other words for togetherness are. Now when you throw a complete stranger into the mix, of course there is a lot of hostility for two reasons. 1. Fear of change. 2. Fear of loss of power. So in order for a new member to survive that, he has to stay out of the way at all times. Of course when someone is isolated for a good period, contributing or not, they will lash out for attention. Of course the most common response among all cliques of any social forum is complete obliteration and excommunication. They don't acknowledge them, they ignore them and they threaten them. Of course this always works cause the person is already weak as it is. Now I might not have any experience on forums but I have played MMO's and the social structure is pretty much the same setup...but with less fairy mass murders.
I believe any old establishments will ignore their own rules, reasons and moral standings in order to protect themselves or their "image" because that is all they have. Anything that threatens it is not worthy of salvation or pity. which is quite sad how most people ignore a problem than solve it. Which is why nothing said here changes anything. It's not a current issue, it's a human condition. My suggestion, all you new members start shaking things up and if someone doesn't like it, fuck them. You don't need a social group to justify your life. Just live life for pete sakes.

(Brought to you by someone who could give a rat's ass about other opinions)

 

[Capnmad]

Here's the my take on the "problem".

The older members have formed bonds and cliques and fads and whatever other words for togetherness are. Now when you throw a complete stranger into the mix, of course there is a lot of hostility for two reasons. 1. Fear of change. 2. Fear of loss of power. So in order for a new member to survive that, he has to stay out of the way at all times. Of course when someone is isolated for a good period, contributing or not, they will lash out for attention. Of course the most common response among all cliques of any social forum is complete obliteration and excommunication. They don't acknowledge them, they ignore them and they threaten them. Of course this always works cause the person is already weak as it is...

I believe any old establishments will ignore their own rules, reasons and moral standings in order to protect themselves or their "image" because that is all they have. Anything that threatens it is not worthy of salvation or pity. which is quite sad how most people ignore a problem than solve it. Which is why nothing said here changes anything.

As said earlier by someone in this thread (Myriads, I think), social dynamics among groups are amazingly complex. My thoughts on cliques are my own analysis of only a facet of the larger problem set. I think what you offer here, Timewarp, has a good deal of merit as well. I don't think one stranger alone will spark the fear of change/fear of loss of power response except among the hysterically insecure, nor do I think the random stranger is so decidedly shut out from the get-go, but I do think when it starts being pointed out where the establishment disregards its own values -- those of ration, reason, fairness, equality, etc. -- that'll get some in The Establishment spooked. The new and relatively weak are the easiest to abuse and cast aside, so when they're a factor in highlighting the errors of The Establishment, they receive the worst of The Establishment's wrath.

For instance, I was once thrown out of an honors fraternity because they breached their own anti-hazing contract that all were required to sign... The hazing incident itself didn't involve me, but my pledge-brothers, bringing them to tears, and one was stopped just before jumping out a second-story window. That was unacceptable. But speaking truth to power is risky business. None of the victims of the hazing incident spoke up -- besides, it was only about two weeks until fully accepting us as Brothers, so they figured they'd just ride it out -- grin and bare it. But the hazing was wrong both ethically and contractually, so I called the fraternity on it, and I stood up for victims who wouldn't do so themselves (darn my principles). I did what I had agreed to do by contract. The Fraternity did not, and booted me. I re-pledged the following semester, much to the surprise of the Brothers, went through the whole initiatory rigamarole again, got in, became elected Parliamentarian, and throughout my tenure, made sure they never hazed anyone. I kept them honest to their espoused ideals, I sacrificed, I helped, and so, I made them better. That's what I do.

But yes, when The Emperors realize they have no clothes, it'll tend to freak them out a bit. However, astutely, you mention that the power structure remains in place regardless, and that nothing changes because of willful ignorance and/or a desire to protect a façade.

It reminds me of a quote from Neil Gaiman's "The Sandman":

"It has always been the prerogative of children and half-wits to point out that The Emperor has no clothes. But the half-wit remains a half-wit and The Emperor remains an Emperor."

The point is to hope and encourage The Emperors-Errant to return to the values that formed the structure to make them such popular figures to begin with. Failing that, many will suffer. But to return to principle, The Emperors must choose to do so, and no child or half-wit, however astute, can make that decision for them.

Nice contribution, Timewarp.

 

[Curmudgeon]

First, let me apologize in advance to anyone reading this who is not tkrexx....It's going to take up a bit of space, but he seems very intent on having the validation of a response, and, since I have kids, I know how important validation can be.

Okay, then....
Frankly, I'd like to think I'm a little too old to be picking up gauntlets hurled in the thoroughfare, but, what the hell...I've had 2 cups of coffee, and I don't work today. Chlorinating the pool can wait an hour while I do some major quoting. Let's start with the last part first, shall we?

6 posts, Curmudgeon. Lunch and beer. And the chance to shut me up. Unless you think I could be right.

You win, without any qualification. Not only do I not doubt your assertion, I unreservedly concede it as fact. There are not more than 5 posts as you speak of. No lunch. Pity, because diners in Iowa can make some decent grub, not counting Maid-Rites. What kind of a moron would search through 4,000+ posts to prove a point? Not I. Like I said, I have chores, and seeing my wife in a bikini trumps a possible free lunch.
Now, if I'm not reading it wrong, your issue seems to be my assertion that your posts were just as divisive as those who were on the "other side" from you and your apparently wildly undercounted bretheren. I still stand by that opinion, and I don't need to wade through 4,000 posts to back it up.
You claim you weren't being divisive (I don't believe anyone ever denied your right to be, btw). Let's keep it simple, say, your last post;

Let me once and for all put one thing to rest: I stated my first and only opinion on "The Outing" in the chatroom, and I'll repeat it here for all to see. I hope the mongrel who did the outing winds up a prison bitch. I believe the rest of it has been repeated by many members here, so I won't reiterate any more of it. Even those members who are privately chuckling about the affair know at some level that this act was wholly wrong.

(emphasis mine) This would indicate, even to a casual, non-biased observer, that at some level, you and your pals believe this was warranted, somehow. Fine. that's your right. Just stop hiding behind the faux outrage. "I hope this guy ends up a prison bitch, but, you know, heh heh heh...it was still funny." The 'first and only' opinion was, at the outset, intellectually dishonest. You say one thing, and take it back almost immediately, albeit in a backhanded way.

When I first read that "Taking a Break" post, I was terribly confused. Are these people talking about the same person I know? What is it I'm not seeing? Then, what is it they're not seeing?

Again, had to throw a little jab in at the 'victim' in this circumstance, and reiterate the assertion that they were not the nice person other people thought they were, but simply had to be the mean, bitter, vindictive person you and your pals KNEW she was. So, the Mods just didn't know the real person, as you folks did.

There was some name calling, directed at the perpetrator. There was some more name calling, directed at some of the victim of this crime's detractors. This eventually evolved into name calling for everyone who dislikes the victim, actually calling them out to post in that thread. It had become an all-out "Us vs. Them" thread. It was divisive. A division of the TMF like none I'd seen before. And it upset me. What started out as a cry for help had become a torch and pitchfork brandishing mob, not particular anymore who got drawn and quartered. It was taking sides.

It absolutely was taking sides. Just like characterizing everyone who disagreed, however strongly, with you and your pals as a "torch and pitchfork brandishing mob". Whereas, snickering behind the scenes is upright, honorable, and well-reasoned.

Glad you thought it was hilarious.

I did. There were some funny damn insults hurled. Especially when it deteriorated into a massive, rolling backhanded slap at another website. I played football for 6 years, and aside from the latent homoeroticism, piling on can be fun.

Clarification: I recall NO mod engaging in insults, with the exception of those directed at the outer. The Mods did say some things about the victim I don't agree with, but that's part of the point I made in the previous paragraph, and the previous post.

You can't unring a bell. You cast a wide net, and just because you didn't mean to include the Mods, doesn't undo that fact that you did. Part of divisiveness is naming who's against you, real, or imagined.

Y'see, I've seen a few people use ALL these items at one point or another in an insulting context towards other people here. I find it unacceptable. Nothing I'd equate with intelligent or mature, kind or sweet. And I firmly believe if a Mod had seen it they'da been down someone's throat. But hearsay is another matter.

(Again, emphasis mine) Another slap at the 'victim', using the words the Mods used to describe them. You just can't let go of the fact that a lot of people liked this person. It can't be that, it just can't, right?? The rest of us just didn't see the truth.

But then again, I'm speaking my mind. That's an admirable quality in certain circles, as I understand it.

It is, when you actually speak your mind, and don't hide behind semantics and backhanded insults.
You and your pals didn't like this person, fine. Say it. You have no problem saying it amongst yourselves, do you? Just say it out in the open, and prepare for arguments from those who disagree. Or, if you don't like disagreement, just keep saying it amongst yourselves.

And as I type this, I also want to say I don't want my pm box filled up with "Hoorays for Rexx!" messages about this post. I'm not trying to be anybody's hero.

You're right, it's just nice to be nominated, isn't it?

Look, I don't know you from Adam, tkrexx; I'm sure you're a decent fellow ( I love Iowa, by the way), and that your intentions are good, and you feel you're coming to the aid of some people you feel were maligned by this person. That's fine. But, before you strap on your lance, and mount your steed to do battle, remember...the dragon has his own perspective.

Christ, there's gonna be algae growing, now.....

 

[TMF Jeff]

Let me just say that people who can't stick to the topic and keep their personal crap personal will be banned from the general discussion forum, on the grounds that they aren't capable of having a focused discussion. I'm getting a little annoyed by all the griping.