bad blood main event

[Celtic_Emperor]

You said it Flatfoot.

Mordecai seems interesting enough but they aren't doing anything with him. All he's doing is going around harassing the cruiserweights. Paul Heyman is right about one thing- there needs to be more impact. Not just from the Dudley Boys (whom I would have rather had stayed on RAW, Booker T too, so that Smackdown got Triple H), but everyone on the roster.

The Undertaker is essentially keeping the show alive as far as the dynamics are concerned. But if he leaves prematurely, before anyone gets a good push then Smackdown will be screwed for the rest of the season.

I thought that this Mordecai guy would have a beef with the Undertaker, but I guess thats not going to happen now. They either need him to do something really bold that with get the locker room's attention, or they need to get rid of him or change his gimmick. But I'd imagine it would be hard to do that now, since he was introduced in such a profound way, with a well established character.

 

[Texas_Tickle]

LOL, yeah, thats actually true. Whose Virgil again? I don't recall a Virgil? Was he that black man that hung around with the Million Dollar Man, or am I thinking about someone else?

No that was Virgil.

 

[Celtic_Emperor]

LOL, oh yeah, I remember. Wasn't it that he sold out his family and ancestors for money? LOL

See, they just don't make the stories like they used to. Now thats something to get worked up about, the fact that he was an Uncle Tom of sorts.

Nowadays, its about love affairs only. The business isn't as multi-faceted as it used to be with it's stories.

 

[TklDuo-Drew]

I get the impression Mordecai is basically rehashing Undertaker's "Ministry of Darkness" bit, when he went really satanic, started recruiting and brainwashing other wrestler's and tried to marry Stephanie McMahon in a black mass. (this may have been Stone Cold Steve Austin's greatest run-in ever, when he showed up to save Steph).

Either that or Mordecai is the new Gangrel.


Drew

 

[Texas_Tickle]

LOL, oh yeah, I remember. Wasn't it that he sold out his family and ancestors for money? LOL

See, they just don't make the stories like they used to. Now thats something to get worked up about, the fact that he was an Uncle Tom of sorts.

Nowadays, its about love affairs only. The business isn't as multi-faceted as it used to be with it's stories.

I always hated those cheesy storylines/plots....I recall when the only plot was a wrestler got his ass kicked the week before and was looking for payback.

God I miss the Freebirds/Von Erichs.

 

[Celtic_Emperor]

@ Drew- Very possible, but this would have to happen after the Undertaker I would think, to work.

@ TM- I'm sure I'm not the only one who would agree with you there, but on the other hand the stories make something more of it.


Also, Smackdown just ended here, and it appears that the Undertaker has joined forces with Paul Heyman. So is he a heel now or does he already have a plan to betray Heyman and get Paul Bearer and the Urn back, people? LOL, this is silly, but its fun anyways. ^__^

 

[Texas_Tickle]

@ Drew- Very possible, but this would have to happen after the Undertaker I would think, to work.

@ TM- I'm sure I'm not the only one who would agree with you there, but on the other hand the stories make something more of it.


Also, Smackdown just ended here, and it appears that the Undertaker has joined forces with Paul Heyman. So is he a heel now or does he already have a plan to betray Heyman and get Paul Bearer and the Urn back, people? LOL, this is silly, but its fun anyways. ^__^

I dunno....I was hoping to see him Tombstone Paul. Anyway, I liked the old-school "Deadman", back when he was a full-fleged heel and not this re-hashed version.

 

[Flatfoot]

I think my favorite Undertaker was when he was at the height of his evil and started the whole Ministry thing, when he had the awesome entrance music (The one on WWF the Music vol. 3.), and when he tried to crucify Stephanie MacMahon. I really think Mordecai's got a good gimmick (if they PUSH him!), and he can obviously toss people around, but he needs to piss somebody off and start some sh*t! To go right for the Undertaker wouldn't be good for a brand new guy, but he could work towards that feud, if Taker was still around by that time.

On a side note, I was seriously disappointed in Smackdown, last night. Especially in the beginning, with that new Suzuki guy. It seems somebody just got done watching The Last Samurai when they came up with that guy. Don't get me wrong, I liked that movie, but this guy did NOT impress me at all. His entrance was too grand and slow-moving for the lack of skill he displayed. He was too slow, he didn't display any major wrestling skill except to pummel the guy (worse than Batista, I might add.), and his foot sweep/claw finisher did not impress me.

Also, locking John Cena up into this thing with Angle isn't working out well, either. I liked Angle better than Heyman as a general manager, but right now, he seems more like an inept gimp (leadership-wise, not physically.). He needs to act more like Vince MacMahon than a 3 year-old with temper tantrums, and that big guy he has pushing his wheelchair around needs to beat the crap out of somebody.

I'm sure I've got more stuff to ramble about, but since I can't think of anything else at the moment, I'll stop here.

 

[Shem the Penman]

Indeed. I don't know why Vince bothered to bring in Kenzo Suzuki when there are so many other -talented- wrestlers in Japan who might want to work for the WWE -- although the number is probably rather smaller after the shabby treatment Ultimo Dragon received.

Oh well. At least Vince had the sense to drop the "Hirohito" gimmick before Suzuki debuted. Imagine how well that would've gone over after Bradshaw's Nazi stunt...

As for the Undertaker, I wish he'd gone out after the match at Wrestlemania XX. The problem with having him around and still doing the Dead Man gimmick is that it inevitably makes his opponent look like crap -- Taker just no-sells everything and plods around the ring, while his opponent has to sell like he's getting hit by a baseball bat. That's no way to build up a new guy, which is what Smackdown needs.

 

[Texas_Tickle]

I think my favorite Undertaker was when he was at the height of his evil and started the whole Ministry thing, when he had the awesome entrance music (The one on WWF the Music vol. 3.), and when he tried to crucify Stephanie MacMahon. I really think Mordecai's got a good gimmick (if they PUSH him!), and he can obviously toss people around, but he needs to piss somebody off and start some sh*t! To go right for the Undertaker wouldn't be good for a brand new guy, but he could work towards that feud, if Taker was still around by that time.

On a side note, I was seriously disappointed in Smackdown, last night. Especially in the beginning, with that new Suzuki guy. It seems somebody just got done watching The Last Samurai when they came up with that guy. Don't get me wrong, I liked that movie, but this guy did NOT impress me at all. His entrance was too grand and slow-moving for the lack of skill he displayed. He was too slow, he didn't display any major wrestling skill except to pummel the guy (worse than Batista, I might add.), and his foot sweep/claw finisher did not impress me.

Also, locking John Cena up into this thing with Angle isn't working out well, either. I liked Angle better than Heyman as a general manager, but right now, he seems more like an inept gimp (leadership-wise, not physically.). He needs to act more like Vince MacMahon than a 3 year-old with temper tantrums, and that big guy he has pushing his wheelchair around needs to beat the crap out of somebody.

I'm sure I've got more stuff to ramble about, but since I can't think of anything else at the moment, I'll stop here.

Is it just me, or does Kurt Angle's stooge look like Dan Servern?

 

[Flatfoot]

He reminded me of Dan Severn, although he looks a bit younger. THERE'S a guy I wish got the chance to stay in develop. I also wouldn't mind having Ken Shamrock back, even though I couldn't stand him while he was in. That's pretty bad when you start wishing the guys you HATED would come back.

 

[Flatfoot]

Indeed. I don't know why Vince bothered to bring in Kenzo Suzuki when there are so many other -talented- wrestlers in Japan who might want to work for the WWE -- although the number is probably rather smaller after the shabby treatment Ultimo Dragon received.

Oh well. At least Vince had the sense to drop the "Hirohito" gimmick before Suzuki debuted. Imagine how well that would've gone over after Bradshaw's Nazi stunt...

As for the Undertaker, I wish he'd gone out after the match at Wrestlemania XX. The problem with having him around and still doing the Dead Man gimmick is that it inevitably makes his opponent look like crap -- Taker just no-sells everything and plods around the ring, while his opponent has to sell like he's getting hit by a baseball bat. That's no way to build up a new guy, which is what Smackdown needs.

Ultimo Dragon! THERE'S a guy who had some talent!

Also, you've got a point about Taker. Kind of reminds me of Kevin Nash. I guess in this business, being close to 7' tall must make your job a LOT easier, as far as exerting yourself. If I was a Mexican cruiserweight, I'd probably file for discrimination! 🙄

 

[Texas_Tickle]

Imagine how well that would've gone over after Bradshaw's Nazi stunt...

As

I must have missed something....when did Bradshaw give the heil Hitler salute?

 

[Celtic_Emperor]

@ TM- But doesn't he need Paul Bearer? They are making it seem he can't exist without Paul Bearer or the Urn (which was supposed to explain why Booker T almost beat him last week). So I expected this to happen, but as a fan I'm hoping its just a ploy that he'll have to put up with until theres an opening to betray Heyman. I've personally never seen the Undertaker kneel to anyone, so I didn't like having to watch that and I felt betrayed a bit. LOL

This is all story-wise of course, but if Undertaker could do without Paul Bearer or the Urn before, from his demonic gimmick, up to the american bad-ass gimmick, then what twist do you think they are trying to make here? Everything seems dependant on the Urn now and not so much Paul Bearer. So they could afford to cut Paul Bearer out again, but clearly the Urn must stay if we are to believe and go along with the story that it has some kind of supernatural power and control over the Undertaker.

The way I see it, he didn't really have a choice. Either way, he belongs to Heyman because Heyman has the Urn and Paul Bearer.

And another thing, if the Undertaker is supposed to be so blackhearteed and evil then why does he show compassion for Paul Bearer in this way? Wasn't it once rumored that Paul Bearer is his father or something?

The only reason I bring that up is because if he's going to work within the confines of the "deadman" gimmick, then he needs to be as original as he was. And if he's going to move on somehow they need to provide a believable opening.

And since he's so powerful on his own, what would he need Heyman for? He could easily just take him and the Dudley Boys out, get the Urn back, and if he cares for Paul Bearer, keep him around.

Right now, the script calls us to believe that the Undertaker is giving himself up as randsom.

@ Flatfoot- I was disappointed with Suzuki as well. I was expecting more action from him, but he sort of just stalked around the ring and then delivered that pretty weak looking finisher. It was very low-caliber for me.

I agree Kurt needs to be more like Vince, but how much so? Just enough where he's not whining so much? If he's too Vince McMahon then that takes away from McMahon, whenever he makes an appearance.

And I agree, Luther Reigns needs to kick somebody's ass. It looks like they are preping him for some sort of role though. While its important that Angle has a muscle to protect him, he's probably going to be like Batista was with Devon.

@ Shem-

I think the point they've always tried to make with the Undertaker, is that as an individual he is invincible. Haven't you noticed however that when he's paired up with someone or during his ministry days, he was much more vulnerable? He has a powerful stand alone presense because he only has to take care of himself, but if you throw other people in the mix then he becomes a part of that and seems 'beatable' and it makes him seem weaker because now it seems he needs someone else to help him get the job done when on his own he didn't. The fact he's being so easily manipulated because of Paul Bearer is a testament to that. And if he's going to stay with Heyman and the Dudley Boys, then he's not going to be invincible anymore, as now he has an excuse to slack off and let the others do the work.

And then again, look whose been pitted against the Undertaker recently. FBI and Booker T? These people can't take him anyways. They simply aren't good enough. It wasn't until Undertaker feuded with the Rock and the likes of him that his invinciblity went away. So unless they can come up with a powerful face character, the Undertaker isn't likely to get beat up by anyone any time soon.

 

[Shem the Penman]

But that's the problem -- it's a self-fulfilling prophecy. No one is in the Undertaker's class because no one is -allowed- to look as if they're in the Undertaker's class. The storylines can fiddle around with Paul Bearer and the urn as much as they want, but as long as Undertaker just keeps squashing anyone who crosses his path in the ring it won't matter.

Smackdown badly needs top heels, and with the right push Booker T could have filled one of those spots. He was getting good reactions in his early days on the show when he was feuding with Eddie. But that was before he got shoved into an inane voodoo angle and, of course, made to look like a scrub in the ring by the Undertaker.

 

[Celtic_Emperor]

Well, I agree with most of that. Though the Undertaker had a loss ratio before, and people like the Rock, Triple H, and Kurt Angle could 'fight' him effectively, even gain wins over him here and there. So does his status really matter than much when it comes to victories? In fact, the only thing that doesn't seem negotiable is his perfect win record at Wrestlemania.

In fact, there have been times when the Undertaker needed someone else. Remember his first title reign? If it wasn't for Ric Flair interfering Hulk Hogan might have won that match and retained the WWF title (though the plot demanded he drop it).

As for the top heel, well, Triple H would have made the perfect heel on Smackdown but noooooo, he had to be traded back! 🙄 Quite a few rivalries could have happened because of him and its always interesting (at least for me) when Triple H is competing for the title and what he'll do to get it. As for Booker T looking like a scrub, well isn't it important and common practice that when a character/wrestler returns, leaves, or debuts that they win? I think they just wanted to establish that the Undertaker is still dominant and is still a viable wrestler.

 

[TklDuo-Drew]

I'm sure nobody's gonna agree with me on this....and I've been following Taker since Day 1......but I prefered his "American Badass" character. At least over this new 2004 Undertaker. If he was pissed off, driving that bike to the ring, then getting on the mic and talking about "his yard" was just so intimidating! The best promo he cut in years was the one to Brock Lesner: "Boy, You haven't been in a FIGHT, yet!"
Now we get a Taker who sllooowwwly walks to the ring, lifts his coat, steps inside, removes his cap, doesn't say a word, and is subserviant to....the Dudleys???!!
And yeah, Paul Bearer is supposedly his father, remember when Kane first showed up and Paul admitted this? Why are Micheal Cole and Paul Heymen all questioning who Paul Bearer plays into Taker's life?
And Kurt Angle has to stop being a GM, even more, a crybaby general manager. I don't mind Angle as a heel, but this new role is just a pathetic step down for the WWE's "first real athlethe". Even if he can't wrestle for a few months due to the ol' neck.
Oh, and why are they burying Ultimo Dragon on RAW when they spent weeks promoting him....and what's the deal with this new urn? Looks like a flower vase.


Drew

 

[Celtic_Emperor]

I agree, though I personally like this Undertaker better. Its more dramatic, and I like the look and the feel of everything. It makes him mysterious, even though we know him through and through.

The reason I liked him as the Biker Taker is because he was far more agressive and pulled his weight around. If he had something to say he'd say it, and Taker is/was pretty good on the mic.

I think what makes him so sucessful no matter which persona he is working with, is that its genuine and that he's being himself. I think its easier for him to appeal as a person when he's like everyone else as the Biker Taker (socially speaking). The deadman gimmick makes him an outcast, but people identify with that too, and in some ways prefer it. He really knows how to play his roles, and when it came to the Biker Taker, he was really good at playing.....himself. LOL ^_^

Didn't Angle say though he'd never wrestle again? How can you undo having said that? Oh, miraculously he can all of a sudden someday? People aren't going to buy that, even though he's not really hurt anyway. I think whatever they are doing with Angle is working though, because it's pissing people off. And thats the start of the making a good heel, or part of the start.

I never really liked Ultimo Dragon. He just seemed like a slower, japanese Rey Mysterio. In fact, I'm getting tired of all the cruiserweights. Their performances are rather sub-par these days. At least thats what I think. Wheres all the high flying, risk taking maneuvers? They seem to be doing everything the heavyweights do, with just a little extra flash and show. They really need to gain back the believability that came with them being crusierweights.

As for the Urn, was it ever changed? I'm not sure how they explained it's importance before, but now they are saying, or Cole is suggesting that the Undertaker's soul is in Urn and always has been. Storywise that would explain why he would rise back up when Paul Bearer would raise it up, and it would explain why he has to obey Heyman. Its a very good plot device, I just hope the Undertaker doesn't become Heyman's thug. That would be stupid. The Undertaker is bigger than the Dudley Boys, Heyman, or anyone in the business, for that matter.

 

[TklDuo-Drew]

I think the thing with this new Taker is....we KNOW he can talk great, but he can't cause now he's the deadman again. But even in his last year as the original deadman he ended up talking normally on mic and not just the stupid "Rest...in...Peace" tag line.
Another great Undertaker moment is when he hooked up with Kane and Taker was laughing about how "so-and-so" (can't remember the feud)
was gonna kick their asses. When he asked Kane isn't that funny, Kane(who still had on the mask) replied: "Yeah, I'm laughing on the inside"!
I never thought Ultimo Dragon was all that great, even in WCW on TNT, but the way the WWE was promoting him, you'd think he was the next Triple H. Or Eugene.
I think Angle has one good match in him once his neck heals. He may even have a good year left if he can stay injury-free.
And I agree about the mysteriousness of the original Deadman character, but I think since the Badass gimmick came out, it's hard to take the Deadman serous again. Especially when he has to be concerned about the Dudleys....or Heyman. The original Taker wouldn't give a damn about either of those hacks.

Drew

 

[Celtic_Emperor]

Yeah. Its like we know him so well that its hard to pretend we know nothing about him or that he is mysterious. I mean, he's a family man, right? He brought his wife into the whole thing, and he was made to look like this hardass who doesn't take $hit from nobody but does care about the people in his life that are close to him.

Dare I say, he was soft? The thing is- he was human as the Biker Taker.

As the "deadman" its as if he isn't human, like he doesn't have a soul. He has no connection to this world other than Paul Bearer. And whats funny about that is to pretend he doesn't have a wife or a child and just totally switch our way of thinking of him.

I agree, it is sort of hard to take him seriously now. But the trick is to pretend that never happened and he's always been this way. Or, go with the plot in that he WAS the Biker Taker, but after being buried alive he's back and has vengence on his mind. The only thing is Kane got his at Wrestlemania, but what of Vince? Undertaker wasn't able to do what he wanted to Vince. He made it known to everyone how he personally felt about McMahon (his character anyway) after all these years and they made it seem like the 'final confrontation' of sorts and that one of them was going to be gone forever. It should be Vince, but that can't happen, he's the owner of the company. So who is this 'vengence' supposed to be directed at? Or was simply beating Kane in one match enough?

I mean, they made it seem really dramatic, even worse than Hogan versus McMahon. I wanted to see McMahon gone or so damn frightened that he turned face permanently. But then we wouldn't see old school Taker. I wanted, much like Undertaker's character, to see a final justice be done for the entire company by finally putting McMahon in his place. No one has ever truely done that. Do you think Taker will get another chance like that? I'd like him to go out making an impact and a change in the business for the better. His gift to the WWE, if you will.

As for why I like this version versus the other two, I like the costume, the music which really captures my imagination and attention (I believe his song is called "Graveyard Symphoney" isn't it?) And then theres the fog and the mist, and all the bells and whistles, etc. And then of course theres him. I've noticed, as the deadman, he always has/had the presense of mind to act the part (ie- he walks and maneuvers slowly, rises up like he's getting up out of a casket when he's knocked down, etc.) He jerks his head to stare at an opponent whose trying to hurt him. Rolls his eyes in the back of his head, etc., these are all things that he does that makes the character so real and present. And the makeup and eyeliner and the black tear-drop he had on his cheek was pretty cool and added effect. Its the little things too.

I think one of the greatest things I like about him is the psychological mind games he plays with his opponents whether he means to or not. While this is just wrestling, and it is staged, the idea that he can break an opponent before the match even starts is cool. Because a scared opponent is a beaten opponent.

More often than not, Undertaker has won the match before it's even begun. Just his presense is enough. I like that. I also like the Tombstone Piledriver. I think next to the Pedigree it's my favorite finisher. It's high impact and gets your attention.


So its a shame he's going to be used like a tool now. I hope McMahon knows what he's doing. 🙁

Sorry for the ranty. LOL ^__^

 

[AphxA]

beg vince, beg stone cold to come back and brock lesnar too🙁

vince is a cheap bastard😡

 

[Texas_Tickle]

beg vince, beg stone cold to come back and brock lesnar too🙁

vince is a cheap bastard😡

I have no respect for Lesner.....he has not paid his dues as far as I am concerned and he is already a multi-time champ.

The Undertaker on the other hand went about 10 years before getting his first title....same w/Bret Hart.

 

[Shem the Penman]

The hell with Austin. Even if one sets his behavior outside the ring aside, he did nothing for the show when he was "Sheriff Austin" other than make the heels look bad by beating them up while they couldn't hit him back -- because he wasn't physically able to bump.

 

[Celtic_Emperor]

Speaking of Lesnar, did Goldburg just drop off the face of the earth after their controversial Wrestlemania match?

 

[TklDuo-Drew]

Goldberg's contract was up and he didn't want to renew it.

Austin's career is over, even if he did return, it would probably be as an enforcer or sheriff again. His body is just too spent.

Lesner is still currently looking to play pro-football. But he's having troubles as he was in a motorcycle accident back in April.
He broke his jaw, left hand, injured his pelvis and pulled his groin. The groin is still giving him problems.


Drew