Can a Guy and a Girl be Just Friends?

[kis123]

Maybe it's just me, but this response comes out somewhat offensively. I mean, you sound like by equating sex with white-water rafting that Myr is taking something away from it. You say "Does sex have that little meaning to you?" like because he (may or may not...I don't know if he said this school of thought applies to him or not) enjoys sex without romantic involvement that he is somehow devaluing sex in a way that is somehow immoral.

The good news is that you can take it anyway you want, my opinion is just that-my opinion. I do not see a need to make it more palatable to anyone, but thanks for the observation.

And yes, I do believe that sex is more than just a roll in the hay and I have right to believe such. He has his opinion and I have mine. I'm not backing away from my POV because most of you here don't agree with me. It's called a discussion forum for a reason; I've discussed my opinion and you and others discussed yours. Let's just agree to disagree and move on shall we?

 

[Skipadeedoodah]

The good news is that you can take it anyway you want, my opinion is just that-my opinion. I do not see a need to make it more palatable to anyone, but thanks for the observation.

And yes, I do believe that sex is more than just a roll in the hay and I have right to believe such. He has his opinion and I have mine. I'm not backing away from my POV because most of you here don't agree with me. It's called a discussion forum for a reason; I've discussed my opinion and you and others discussed yours. Let's just agree to disagree and move on shall we?

First of all, I never said you didn't have the right to your opinions, nor did I say you had to sugar-coat them to please anybody. I did, however, point out that I felt the way you presented your opinion was somewhat disrespectful and offensive to Myr and/or others on the forum who hold the view he presented. It's not about all of us agreeing, it's about disagreeing respectfully, which I feel you did not do.

 

[kis123]

First of all, I never said you didn't have the right to your opinions, nor did I say you had to sugar-coat them to please anybody. I did, however, point out that I felt the way you presented your opinion was somewhat disrespectful and offensive to Myr and/or others on the forum who hold the view he presented. It's not about all of us agreeing, it's about disagreeing respectfully, which I feel you did not do.

You can feel anyway you want and until I hear from Myriads himself, I'm not overly worried. He gave his opinion, which I found very disconcerting. I NEVER told him he didn't have to right to his opinion or should he have worded it any differently than he did. He has his opinion and I have mine and I have absolutely NO intention of changing it to suit anyone. I didn't disrespect him at all; if I would have, don't you think he'd be the actual one to tell me so? He can type just as well as anyone here and I haven't seen one response from him yet. When HE chooses to respond to me, I'll consider the response and respond then. Until then, it sounds more like I offended you than anyone else. In that case, your opinion is important, but no more important than mine or anyone else's here.

 

[ikaiyoo]

I think we all need a hug...

my opinion is that yes they can my best friend is Valerie who i have known forever and dated for 3 months when we first met. We are now the closest friends and there is nothing sexual in anyway between us.



BTW my quote for this thread is...


Fighting on the Internet is a lot like competing in The Special Olympics. Even if you win your still retarded.

so lets keep it civil and not get our panties in a wad.

 

[Skipadeedoodah]

You can feel anyway you want and until I hear from Myriads himself, I'm not overly worried. He gave his opinion, which I found very disconcerting. I NEVER told him he didn't have to right to his opinion or should he have worded it any differently than he did. He has his opinion and I have mine and I have absolutely NO intention of changing it to suit anyone. I didn't disrespect him at all; if I would have, don't you think he'd be the actual one to tell me so? He can type just as well as anyone here and I haven't seen one response from him yet. When HE chooses to respond to me, I'll consider the response and respond then. Until then, it sounds more like I offended you than anyone else. In that case, your opinion is important, but no more important than mine or anyone else's here.

I never meant to speak for Myr or anyone else. I made an observation, and rather than trying to tell you to change anything, I'm merely suggesting and encouraging that you try to be more respectful in the future. If I was coming off disrespectfully, I would appreciate someone telling me, if that was not how I intended to come across. That is my only goal: to let you know that, to me at least, you're coming across disrespectfully, and it would be nice if you would try and be aware of that in the future. Plain. And. Simple.

 

[kis123]

I think we all need a hug...

my opinion is that yes they can my best friend is Valerie who i have known forever and dated for 3 months when we first met. We are now the closest friends and there is nothing sexual in anyway between us.



BTW my quote for this thread is...


Fighting on the Internet is a lot like competing in The Special Olympics. Even if you win your still retarded.

so lets keep it civil and not get our panties in a wad.

Considering my son is Autistic, I really could've done without the Special Olympics analogy.

Also, I don't see anywhere that anyone isn't being civil. I'm not backing away from my beliefs just because they don't swim with the masses; I never had and I never will. If anyone doesn't like what I have to say, I suggest using the ignore function because I'm certainly not going to stop giving my opinion on issues whether people agree with them or not. I announced that several posts ago-don't see the need to change that.

Now can we all get back to the topic? Or are we all just going to keep up the jump on kis fest? Totally up to you because my mind isn't changing on the subject matter at all no matter who's posting.

 

[kis123]

I never meant to speak for Myr or anyone else. I made an observation, and rather than trying to tell you to change anything, I'm merely suggesting and encouraging that you try to be more respectful in the future. If I was coming off disrespectfully, I would appreciate someone telling me, if that was not how I intended to come across. That is my only goal: to let you know that, to me at least, you're coming across disrespectfully, and it would be nice if you would try and be aware of that in the future. Plain. And. Simple.

I didn't disrespect anyone, certainly not the forum tzar. That's the way you took it and that's certainly your business. I'm not changing my stance nor do I see the need to "come off" any differently than I did.

I can't make it any more simple than that; I said nor did anything wrong to anyone-except you. When Myriads tells me how he feels about my commentary, I'll consider it and respond then. Otherwise, your advice has been noted, but I don't see the need for it.

 

[Skipadeedoodah]

Considering my son is Autistic, I really could've done without the Special Olympics analogy.

Also, I don't see anywhere that anyone isn't being civil. I'm not backing away from my beliefs just because they don't swim with the masses; I never had and I never will. If anyone doesn't like what I have to say, I suggest using the ignore function because I'm certainly not going to stop giving my opinion on issues whether people agree with them or not. I announced that several posts ago-don't see the need to change that.

Now can we all get back to the topic? Or are we all just going to keep up the jump on kis fest? Totally up to you because my mind isn't changing on the subject matter at all no matter who's posting.

Kis, honestly love, no one is trying to make you change your opinion. I am only encouraging you to present your opinions in a more respectful way.

I don't quite understand why you feel so ganged up on -- ikaiyoo's post didn't address you or your views at all. He made a comment about the heated discussion going on in this thread by everyone, made his own on-topic comment answering the OP, and included a humorous (to some and not to others) quote to close it out. Nothing directed at you...

 

[ikaiyoo]

Now can we all get back to the topic? Or are we all just going to keep up the jump on kis fest? Totally up to you because my mind isn't changing on the subject matter at all no matter who's posting.

ummmmm i did post on topic. i just made another comment afterwords.


And I also didn't say "Kis I really wish you would stop voicing your opinion and start being civil." Did I? I don't remember jumping on anyone, I was just making a broad statement.


But I think there can be platonic friendship between two people. once again... just saying so i am not accused of jumping off topic.

 

[Skipadeedoodah]

I didn't disrespect anyone, certainly not the forum tzar. That's the way you took it and that's certainly your business. I'm not changing my stance nor do I see the need to "come off" any differently than I did.

I can't make it any more simple than that; I said nor did anything wrong to anyone-except you. When Myriads tells me how he feels about my commentary, I'll consider it and respond then. Otherwise, your advice has been noted, but I don't see the need for it.

That's fine love. How you come across is your choice. I was simply trying to make you aware of something you may not have realized. If you realize you sound rude and that's okay with you - that's your choice.

Know in advance that any reply you make will not, in turn, be replied to. I'm finished here.

 

[ikaiyoo]

With all due respect.......

Cmon' how on earth can you compare white water rafting with sex?

• Well you are moving around a lot in both sometimes violently jerking
• both make you wet
• you are usually tired after both, or should be
• and if your smart you use protection.
• And sometimes there is a paddle used in both
• and if your not in control someone more then likely get hurt.
• finally in both if both people try to be in charge you end up in an argument, pissed off and tipping over...

white water rafting is a lot like sex.

 

[kis123]

That's fine love. How you come across is your choice. I was simply trying to make you aware of something you may not have realized. If you realize you sound rude and that's okay with you - that's your choice.

Know in advance that any reply you make will not, in turn, be replied to. I'm finished here.

Well, at least we finally agree on something.....the no more responding part that is.

Know the same because I never said anything wrong in the first place. I wasn't rude as you are feebly backhandedly alluding to either. That's the way you took it and it looks as if you're the only one who did.

I have no more time to respond to this; it detracts from the thread and really should've been handled via PM.

You have your opinion and I have mine; you disagree with me and I definitely disagree with you. At least I didn't resort to name calling; but maybe that's your style of communication. Glad it works for you.

 

[kis123]

• Well you are moving around a lot in both sometimes violently jerking
• both make you wet
• you are usually tired after both, or should be
• and if your smart you use protection.
• And sometimes there is a paddle used in both
• and if your not in control someone more then likely get hurt.
• finally in both if both people try to be in charge you end up in an argument, pissed off and tipping over...

white water rafting is a lot like sex.

If I ever felt like I went through white water rafting after I had sex, something would be definitely wrong with the experience. For some, it means more than a recreational activity; why can't we just leave it at that?

It's mighty strange that the person I allegedly offended hasn't said a word. Then again, why should he have to with so many doing it for him?

 

[ikaiyoo]

ummm where is there name calling? are we reading the same thread?... And why are we off topic?

 

[ikaiyoo]

If I ever felt like I went through white water rafting after I had sex, something would be definitely wrong with the experience. For some, it means more than a recreational activity; why can't we just leave it at that?

It's mighty strange that the person I allegedly offended hasn't said a word. Then again, why should he have to with so many doing it for him?

Look number one, I am not standing up for anyone. I responded to this thread because I saw it and read through a little bit then I saw bantering back and forth. And suggested we keep it civil... which was totally ignored. Number two you said how can you compare white water rafting to sex... I gave you examples how they could be compared... not how they were identical. Now if you want to wax semantics about the whole thing I will. I am not out to get anyone jump on anyones back or bandwagon or anything else. I merely commented on something, gave my opinion, then you snapped at me. But if you would like you are more then welcome to private message me and we can see who can pee further. Because this has turned into a pissing contest.

 

[kis123]

ummm where is there name calling? are we reading the same thread?... And why are we off topic?

"disrespectful"
"rude"

Sounds like name calling to me.

And don't worry; I'm not the one who took it off topic in the first place. Anyone else that has a problem with what I said can utilize my PM box. I'll respond if I see the need. Otherwise, I'm done with this!

 

[Cy/MiG]

What makes you think that?

Because it's implied.

If I have three kids and every year for their birthday I give them the following gifts:

Kid 1: money

Kid 2: money

Kid 3: Money, new toy, hug, and kiss

Then it stands to reason I have a 'favorite' amongst my children.

If I have sex with one/some of my friends and not others, it stands to reason that there is a reason why.

i.e. 'something more'.

I drink alcohol with some of my friends, because it's a pasttime we enjoy. We're in our 20s and going out to the bar and drinking until we fall over is fun for us. I also have friends who don't drink, either because they've been there done that, because they've had bad experiences with alcohol, or because they simply don't see the point of poisoning your body with mind-altering substances.

It's an activity I enjoy with SOME friends, but not most and definitely notall. I don't distinguish my non-alcohol-drinking friends from my alcohol-drinking friends. I just pursue different activities with the different groups of people.

Drinking liquor isn't personal.

The reason I don't like these 'white water rafting' and 'drinking' analogies is simple:

I can get drunk with many of my friends any day of the week.

I probably couldn't have sex with them.

There is an apparent and obvious difference between throwing down some beers and 'bumping uglies'.

Choosing certain friends over others to have sex with implies a certain subtext that there is 'something more' going on.

Otherwise people would have sex with all their friends.

Kind like an 'all or nothing' scenario.

What makes you think I'm not relaxed?

Chill out 😉

*whew*

Just making sure.

Last thing I want is for the PC crowd to descend upon this thread. 😀

 

[Cy/MiG]

People don't tend to be friends with people they don't like either, so I'm not sure what you're talking about, unless you're saying something's 'implied' with everyone you like. Which is ridiculous...

Part of my perspective.

If I have 10 friends of the female gender (I'm a straight male), it stands to reason that I 'like them'.

If I choose to sleep with only 1 of them... it stands to reason that I like one a little more than the others.

Otherwise I'd sleep with all of them.

Sex isn't meaningless.

Otherwise there'd be alot less breakups and divorces. 😀

 

[Skipadeedoodah]

Because it's implied.

If I have three kids and every year for their birthday I give them the following gifts:

Kid 1: money

Kid 2: money

Kid 3: Money, new toy, hug, and kiss

Then it stands to reason I have a 'favorite' amongst my children.

If I have sex with one/some of my friends and not others, it stands to reason that there is a reason why.

i.e. 'something more'.



Drinking liquor isn't personal.

The reason I don't like these 'white water rafting' and 'drinking' analogies is simple:

I can get drunk with many of my friends any day of the week.

I probably couldn't have sex with them.

There is an apparent and obvious difference between throwing down some beers and 'bumping uglies'.

Choosing certain friends over others to have sex with implies a certain subtext that there is 'something more' going on.

Otherwise people would have sex with all their friends.

Kind like an 'all or nothing' scenario.

Well, I think that the kid scenario is a little inapplicable because you're right, you really shouldn't display your different relationships with your children in that way. But if you have different relationships with your friends, you can show it by doing different activities with them.

It implies that there's "something more" going on for people who need there to be "something more" going on in order to want to have sex. Really, the "something more" may just be "Hey, you're more attractive than my other friends." Sex isn't meaningless, no, but it means different things to different people. I think that's the point that people are trying to make here, is that sex isn't the same for everyone.

You (it seems) and I could never have sex with someone with whom we weren't in a romantic relationship, or at least for whom we had stronger than platonic feelings, and there's totally nothing wrong with that!!! 🙂

Some others find it possible to say "Hey - you look good naked. Let us romp," without emotions and relationship crap get in the way. I think it's mostly difficult for you to wrap your mind around, because for you it sounds like it just isn't an option, and like I said, me either! And we're totally cool for that 🙂 But these guys are totally cool for their point of view as well, even if it's something we can't 100% understand, ya dig? 😛

 

[Myriads]

I took no offence at the comment. I tend to take offence at very little.

I am a person who can detach physical sex from any other relationalship aspect. I certainly can have greater connections with someone I have sex with, but it's not something that I find needful in every case.

Heck I feel falling asleep in front of another person as more intimate and trusting then having sex with them.

We have the argument:

If I have three kids and every year for their birthday I give them the following gifts:

Kid 1: money

Kid 2: money

Kid 3: Money, new toy, hug, and kiss

Then it stands to reason I have a 'favorite' amongst my children.

If I have sex with one/some of my friends and not others, it stands to reason that there is a reason why.

i.e. 'something more'.


The argument starts with the basic idea that all friendships are equal. In short that I'll see all my friends as equals from the start.

While there are aspects that must be in all my friendships they all will have unique and different additional qualities.

Friend A might be a great conversationalist
Friend B might be full of energy and motivates me
Friend C may have a interesting job and is always full of interesting tales.
Friend D might be massivly carring and supportive

Each brings more to the friendship then the base 'friend' qualities.

They are all friends, but they are all 'unequal' by the very nature of being individuals.

Some of these friends might be attractive to me, and vice versa. If we are both so minded, sex is an activity we may share. It's just one more aspect that falls into the unique qualities of each friendship. It does not make it so special it needs to be ammended with a 'with benefits' or some such. It's just something else I might do with that friend.

Myriads

 

[DimpleToes]

What an interesting thread. Just saw it for first time. I do agree ppl can be freinds with out benifits. I have several male freinds whom I only see as friends. Yes, I am married. not to say if I was not that some of the realtionships would not blossom for we are all human and some of your freinds you have a mutual attraction to. Yet, that may not be from a sexual physical means only but a deep emotional bond, true trust.

On the other hand I have several several male freinds I see as family members as brother or even father figures that I would never think of doing anything with for it would ruine the relationship and it is not worth it- loosing something that is truely precious, genuine freindship which is hard to come by these days, someone you can tell anything and I mean anything to with out fear and vise versa.

 

[kis123]

I took no offence at the comment. I tend to take offence at very little.

I am a person who can detach physical sex from any other relationalship aspect. I certainly can have greater connections with someone I have sex with, but it's not something that I find needful in every case.

Heck I feel falling asleep in front of another person as more intimate and trusting then having sex with them.

We have the argument:

If I have three kids and every year for their birthday I give them the following gifts:

Kid 1: money

Kid 2: money

Kid 3: Money, new toy, hug, and kiss

Then it stands to reason I have a 'favorite' amongst my children.

If I have sex with one/some of my friends and not others, it stands to reason that there is a reason why.

i.e. 'something more'.


The argument starts with the basic idea that all friendships are equal. In short that I'll see all my friends as equals from the start.

While there are aspects that must be in all my friendships they all will have unique and different additional qualities.

Friend A might be a great conversationalist
Friend B might be full of energy and motivates me
Friend C may have a interesting job and is always full of interesting tales.
Friend D might be massivly carring and supportive

Each brings more to the friendship then the base 'friend' qualities.

They are all friends, but they are all 'unequal' by the very nature of being individuals.

Some of these friends might be attractive to me, and vice versa. If we are both so minded, sex is an activity we may share. It's just one more aspect that falls into the unique qualities of each friendship. It does not make it so special it needs to be ammended with a 'with benefits' or some such. It's just something else I might do with that friend.

Myriads

First of all, I knew you weren't offended at what I said; you're skin isn't nearly that thin. But I guess you can solace that you have people who care about you to the point of coming to your aid even when not asked.

Now back to topic:

Not all friends are seen equal in relationships; I completely agree with you. Some friends you like more than others, and like them for different reasons-I get that too.

Where I still disagree is that when the friendship/relationship turns sexual, that it remains the same. I can appreciate that you define sexual relationships differently than I ever would, but this type of friendship is nothing I'd ever be able to have in my life without some consequence. My sexuality is hard-wired in monogamy and exclusivity so sex with friends is just not a viable relationship for me.

Furthermore, even if you're calling youselves friends, sex changes the relatioship. If it didn't, it's like Cy said-you'd be having sex with all your friends, wouldn't you?

And before anyone else starts up with me, I'm not critizing ANYONE'S lifestyle choices!

 

[BellaRisa]

Not all friends are seen equal in relationships; I completely agree with you. Some friends you like more than others, and like them for different reasons-I get that too.

Where I still disagree is that when the friendship/relationship turns sexual, that it remains the same. I can appreciate that you define sexual relationships differently than I ever would, but this type of friendship is nothing I'd ever be able to have in my life without some consequence. My sexuality is hard-wired in monogamy and exclusivity so sex with friends is just not a viable relationship for me.

Furthermore, even if you're calling youselves friends, sex changes the relatioship. If it didn't, it's like Cy said-you'd be having sex with all your friends, wouldn't you?

And before anyone else starts up with me, I'm not critizing ANYONE'S lifestyle choices!

Kis, I've been keeping up with this thread, and I haven't seen you criticize anyone's lifestyle 🙂

What I'm seeing is some of us explaining how we know some people in this world view friendship that includes sex, a view that we don't necessarily share but we do understand , and others insisting that the way we *know* those people think isn't right for them. Um, we never said it should be true for you ('you' being readers of this thread), we just know there are people for whom it *is* true. For instance, when you say

even if you're calling youselves friends, sex changes the relatioship. If it didn't, it's like Cy said-you'd be having sex with all your friends, wouldn't you?

I can totally see where you're coming from; yet I know actual people who's friendships really, honestly don't change because sex is added in the mix. They exist, I've had dinner with them . That's the way they think. That doesn't mean that it has to make sense to the rest of us, and it doesn't mean that anyone's trying to change anyone's mind about it . It just means that there *are* people for whom their sexual friendships are really no different than their nonsexual ones. And that the fact that they're not having sex with *all* their friends doesn't mean anything, just as they don't ski or take a journaling class with *all* their friends. Just the ones that are good for those activities. Sex for them is purely recreation, and the friends they sleep with are on no higher pedestal or special category other than sexual compatibility.

(and some of the people I'm talking about ARE having sex with all their friends. They're really busy and very tired but remarkably happy )

 

[kis123]

Kis, I've been keeping up with this thread, and I haven't seen you criticize anyone's lifestyle 🙂

What I'm seeing is some of us explaining how we know some people in this world view friendship that includes sex, a view that we don't necessarily share but we do understand , and others insisting that the way we *know* those people think isn't right for them. Um, we never said it should be true for you ('you' being readers of this thread), we just know there are people for whom it *is* true. For instance, when you say I can totally see where you're coming from; yet I know actual people who's friendships really, honestly don't change because sex is added in the mix. They exist, I've had dinner with them . That's the way they think. That doesn't mean that it has to make sense to the rest of us, and it doesn't mean that anyone's trying to change anyone's mind about it . It just means that there *are* people for whom their sexual friendships are really no different than their nonsexual ones. And that the fact that they're not having sex with *all* their friends doesn't mean anything, just as they don't ski or take a journaling class with *all* their friends. Just the ones that are good for those activities. Sex for them is purely recreation, and the friends they sleep with are on no higher pedestal or special category other than sexual compatibility.

(and some of the people I'm talking about ARE having sex with all their friends. They're really busy and very tired but remarkably happy )

Now I'm really curious.

Wouldn't this type of friendship/relationship eventually create problems? At some point, doesn't one friend/sexual partner end up on some sort of hierarchal pedestal than another? Can one really say that all their friendships are equal, especially the sexual ones? Do all parties know each other? How do they get along without jealousy or some sort of negative emotion taking hold?

For me, this would be just way too complicated. I can barely date let alone have sexual relationships that aren't exclusive. Going back to the OP, I certainly believe that men and women can be "just friends", but the rest is up in the air at this point.

 

[BellaRisa]

Now I'm really curious.

Wouldn't this type of friendship/relationship eventually create problems? At some point, doesn't one friend/sexual partner end up on some sort of hierarchal pedestal than another? Can one really say that all their friendships are equal, especially the sexual ones? Do all parties know each other? How do they get along without jealousy or some sort of negative emotion taking hold?

For me, this would be just way too complicated. I can barely date let alone have sexual relationships that aren't exclusive. Going back to the OP, I certainly believe that men and women can be "just friends", but the rest is up in the air at this point.

I can't give a definite answer to your questions because every single relationship, friendship, and group of friends is different 🙂. Sometimes everyone knows each other, sometimes it's a matter of having different friends in different circles who never meet...heck, I have lots of friends in the spanking community that don't know my TMF friends, they live in different states and even different countries and just never have contact. Let's say though, that there are two spanking people who always get together at the big Vegas spanking convention once per year. They play and end the session with amazing sex, snuggle for awhile, and then go about their business for another year. They consider themselves friends only. Friends with benefits to be sure, but they both consider it very casual and aren't hurt or bothered by whatever else they're each doing. This kinda thing happens ALL the time, it works out for everyone; and while it can get messy it certainly doesn't have to. Monogamy can get way, wayyy messier and complicated frankly, because each person has to be everything to the other person and that can be too much of a burden on just two people.