Foot Tickling at Water Park

[tickledgirl]

Excellent reference, Ray. I find the phrase "often defined" a little currious. It begs the question, "How often?" It seems to imply that it is just as often NOT defined by mere physical contact. The dictionary definition I quoted did include a couple of legal definitions, neither of which came close to defining assault as "any physical contact with another person without their consent." I would say that even given that assault is sometimes defined in a legal sense as any physical contact with another person without their consent, I doubt that something as brief as *name removed at OP's request*'s foot tickle would be enough to constitute legal assault, and certainly not sexual assault. Otherwise people would be "assaulting" each other regularly on city streets, crowded stores, busses and theme parks.

Drew, intent is an important element of many crimes. It's actually more important than what you do. For example: If you accidently bumped into me on a crowded bus, that's not a crime. If you walked up to you on an empty bus and stood an inch away from my face, that would be a crime, at least under Illinois law. (I'm guessing other states have similiar laws.)

"Under Illinois law, assault and battery are separate crimes. Assault is defined as an act that makes another person have reasonable apprehension of battery. Battery means intentionally or knowingly and without legal justification causing bodily harm to another person, or making an insulting or provoking physical contact with a person."

Is tickling someone's foot "provoking physical contact"? It'd probably depend on how good a lawyer you can afford. But there's certainly a case to be made that it is. That's especially true light of the comments the perpetrator made here about his intent, and his knowledge that the contact was unwanted.

Basically, if a reasonable person would assume physical contact is unwanted, you should not intentionally make physical contact, especially for the purpose of your own sexual gratification.

P.S. I'm don't mean to imply anything by saying "you" and "me." Ordinarily I cast myself as the "bad guy" in examples like these. I'm just dodging cross-comments about whether you'd find my actions desirable.

 

[drew70]

Is tickling someone's foot "provoking physical contact"? It'd probably depend on how good a lawyer you can afford. But there's certainly a case to be made that it is. That's especially true light of the comments the perpetrator made here about his intent, and his knowledge that the contact was unwanted.

To precisely which comments are you referring? I read his post before he edited it, and I saw nothing that indicated any intent beyond tickling her foot, or any foreknowledge that contact was unwanted, although I will agree that when in doubt, that is the safest assumption.

Basically, if a reasonable person would assume physical contact is unwanted, you should not intentionally make physical contact, especially for the purpose of your own sexual gratification.

Since opinions differ radically on where the boundaries lie between acceptable or unacceptable physical contact, I would think it would be difficult to establish which way a "reasonable person" would go. Also I know very few people, even here on the TMF, who would be sexually gratified by a 1 second foot tickle. Can you imagine the reactions if a video company promised sexual gratification and provided a 10 second video of this little scene?

 

[Myriads]

As I introduced the term/idea 'sexual gratification' into the thread I'll clarify the term.

Sexual gratification does not mean coming to climax in this context. Sexual gratification means taking an action that provides a positive sexual reinforcement. In this case the person took an action that was a arousal cue to himself.

You don't need to eat the entire cake to enjoy the flavor in one tiny taste.

Myraids

 

[drew70]

As I introduced the term/idea 'sexual gratification' into the thread I'll clarify the term.

Sexual gratification does not mean coming to climax in this context. Sexual gratification means taking an action that provides a positive sexual reinforcement. In this case the person took an action that was a arousal cue to himself.

You don't need to eat the entire cake to enjoy the flavor in one tiny taste.

Myraids

With respect, Myriads, it doesn't sound all that gratifying to me. I think I'd need a little more of that cake to gratify me than a simple taste.

 

[tickledgirl]

To precisely which comments are you referring? I read his post before he edited it, and I saw nothing that indicated any intent beyond tickling her foot, or any foreknowledge that contact was unwanted, although I will agree that when in doubt, that is the safest assumption.

Okay, I'm going from memory. But I seem to remember him saying the victim was probably thinking "Ewww, someone's touching me!"

Since opinions differ radically on where the boundaries lie between acceptable or unacceptable physical contact, I would think it would be difficult to establish which way a "reasonable person" would go.

The boundary might be unclear, but I don't think there's any question that a stranger deliberately running their finger along your body is way over the boundary.

Also I know very few people, even here on the TMF, who would be sexually gratified by a 1 second foot tickle. Can you imagine the reactions if a video company promised sexual gratification and provided a 10 second video of this little scene?

See Myriad's comment above. If you're still unclear, ask yourself why he was doing it at all, or why you'd consider doing such a thing. If "sexual gratification" is too confusing, maybe substitute the phrase "getting his jollies"? In other words, "You do too know what I mean. Stop trying to pretend you don't."

 

[primetime]

man, after reading this thread, i know the guy who started it must feel like complete crap. damn, people know how to bring another person down huh?

i didnt get to read his actual tale as he edited it from the thread, but whatever it is, i know he wish he never opened his mouth. trust me, i kind of know what he feels like. a few years ago, i conducted a tickling survey at a college and posted the results on this site. i was ripped alive and believe me, after that, i regretted posting something for everyone to see for fear of chastisement. i didnt even tickle anybody (actually, one girl let me tickle her...)

again, since i didnt read his actual account of what happened, i really cant form an honest opinion. but reading a few responses, it seemed as though it was a quick tickle kind of thing, very ballsy, but very quick. i dont know if i would consider that a crime. i mean, if you were in line watching the guy giving a quick tickle to the girl's foot, would YOU call for security like you would if someone was snatching a purse? after all, it IS a crime, punishable by law from what some of you have mentioned. you would probably laugh it off and think nothing of it. some of you would probably wish it was you that did it. i am just amazed that there are so many tickle police out there. if the story was he held the girl down against her will and tried to tickle torture her for a long period of time, okay, rip the guy. but i have seen many stories of TMF members in public tickling a stranger's foot. yes, we use tactics to do it, but some people are congratulated, others are ripped. amazing......

 

[deac95661]

Venray, Sherlock Holmes could not have said it any better. I do agree with you and your wisdom on this topic

 

[isabeau]

man, after reading this thread, i know the guy who started it must feel like complete crap. damn, people know how to bring another person down huh?

i didnt get to read his actual tale as he edited it from the thread, but whatever it is, i know he wish he never opened his mouth. trust me, i kind of know what he feels like. a few years ago, i conducted a tickling survey at a college and posted the results on this site. i was ripped alive and believe me, after that, i regretted posting something for everyone to see for fear of chastisement. i didnt even tickle anybody (actually, one girl let me tickle her...)

again, since i didnt read his actual account of what happened, i really cant form an honest opinion. but reading a few responses, it seemed as though it was a quick tickle kind of thing, very ballsy, but very quick. i dont know if i would consider that a crime. i mean, if you were in line watching the guy giving a quick tickle to the girl's foot, would YOU call for security like you would if someone was snatching a purse? after all, it IS a crime, punishable by law from what some of you have mentioned. you would probably laugh it off and think nothing of it. some of you would probably wish it was you that did it. i am just amazed that there are so many tickle police out there. if the story was he held the girl down against her will and tried to tickle torture her for a long period of time, okay, rip the guy. but i have seen many stories of TMF members in public tickling a stranger's foot. yes, we use tactics to do it, but some people are congratulated, others are ripped. amazing......

i have to agree with you..the poor guy hasn't been responding to this thread lately..he apologized..people stated their opinion..it should have been left at that...this debating back and forth isn't doing anything other than venting opinions already stated...

 

[Sunjob]

The only way I'd consider this wrong was if it was a tickle done for sexual justification. If it was just done playfully then I don't think it's as wrong as being made out. Ill advised, certainly, but not worthy the lambasting this guy recieved.

The argument could go on forever, because nobody knows what the girl being tickled thought or what the guy himself thought (aside from he of course). I just find it odd that everybody is assuming the worst. I could clearly be wrong but innocent before guilty in my book.

 

[drew70]

Okay, I'm going from memory. But I seem to remember him saying the victim was probably thinking "Ewww, someone's touching me!"

He said that from her reaction he couldn't tell if she was thinking "oh that tickles" or "ewww somebody's touching me." And in any case that reaction happened AFTER the tickling, so I still don't see how anybody can say he tickled her, having "knowledge that the contact was unwanted."

The boundary might be unclear, but I don't think there's any question that a stranger deliberately running their finger along your body is way over the boundary.

I don't think it's that cut and dry. It would depend on the duration, the situation, and the location, as I've said all along.

See Myriad's comment above.

See my response to Myriads' comment above.

If you're still unclear, ask yourself why he was doing it at all, or why you'd consider doing such a thing.

I'm quite clear, thank you very much. However, I have already considered other possible reasons besides sexual ones. You probably could too if you open your mind a crack. It could have just been his way of flirting. Maybe he wanted to add a little excitement to her dreary job at the water park. There are any number of nonsexual reasons he might have done such a thing. I know this may come as a shock to you, but there is tickling going on in the world today with absolutely no thoughts of eroticism whatsoever! 😱 It does actually happen, and I would go as far as to say that MOST tickling that occurs in the real world is done outside of any sexual context.

You asked why I would consider doing such a thing. Actually, I did something very similar to a young woman at the office about four years ago. She had one shoe off and was in a chair sitting with her leg underneath her, kind of squashing her leg with her butt, with her bare right foot sticking out from under her left butt cheek. I walked by and dragged a finger across her foot. LOL. Boy, how she screamed. Why would I do such a thing? Well, it wasn't for sexual reasons, or as you so elequently put it, "getting my jollies." 🙄 It was because I wanted to be able to share it with my pals in the tickling community. I knew the guys would have been terribly disappointed in me for passing up the opportunity, so I did it. Oddly, I received only attaboys and congratulations, instead of all the pious bullshit we, the openminded tickling community heaped on poor Skullduggery.

Bottom line, we don't know why he did it, and it really doesn't matter. When a crime is commited, nobody gives a shit why the car was stolen, why the money was embezzled, or why the man was gay-raped. It's the act that is illegal not the degree to which the perpetrator enjoys it. Whether his reasons were sexual, playful or otherwise, the impact to the girl was the same: a guy at the water park tickled her foot for a second. Big whoop.

 

[tickledgirl]

He said that from her reaction he couldn't tell if she was thinking "oh that tickles" or "ewww somebody's touching me." And in any case that reaction happened AFTER the tickling, so I still don't see how anybody can say he tickled her, having "knowledge that the contact was unwanted."

Interesting legal theory. So I could come by and borrow your computer? Since you won't react until AFTER I "borrow" it, I can assume it's was fine with you.

When a crime is commited, nobody gives a shit why the car was stolen, why the money was embezzled, or why the man was gay-raped.

So the repo man who takes your car is just as guilty as a common car thief? The partner who miscalculated is just as guilty as the guy the guy who pocketed the profits and scooted to Aruba? And rape? There's no crime where intent is more important. (Not quite sure why you picked "gay-rape." To each his own.) If a guy who "gay-rapes" you has the tape with you begging him to do it...

Whether his reasons were sexual, playful or otherwise, the impact to the girl was the same: a guy at the water park tickled her foot for a second. Big whoop.

I think you'll be in for an unpleasant surprise if you ever try to test your legal views in court. Maybe I'm wrong. Try it and let me know how it goes.

Morally, I don't think I'm going to persuade you, and I know you're not going to persuade me. So we might as well agree to disagree and pick another topic to squabble about.

 

[Mike3355]

re-read the original text guys, he's changed it now

 

[tickledgirl]

re-read the original text guys, he's changed it now

Yeah, but enough people supported the original text that the argument lived on well after he changed it.

 

[ViperGTS]

Sooooo what have we learned?

That this whole sitution can be avoided if we don't touch people we don't know.

Touching strangers is rude, obnoxious, and just a bit creepy.

 

[Iggy pop]

First, I would like to address the legality of the issue. Technical I guess you could consider this a "sexual assault", but if it is truely a one second foot tickle it would never in the real world be prosecuted. First there is not enough evidence, unless of course the guy started self pleasuring himself in the water park, to state that sexual gratification took place. Now, if he was going around tickling numerous patrons of the water park then that would be a whole another matter, but even in that case he would most likely be escorted off the property by the police or security, and that would be that.

Second, let's take a look at the "victim" of the one second foot tickle. Worst case scenario, she thought "some weirdo just tickled my foot." Do you think she was really emotional scarred by the incident? I highly doubt it, and most likely she forgot about 15 seconds later and has not thought about it since.

Now ethically, is it wrong? I guess so, but I have to say I have been guilty of doing similar things in my life. Then again I've never been a perfect person. Of course now, I probably would not initiate contact by tickling a total stranger. I would probably initiate contact first and then tickle her.

Finally, after reading Primetime response another thought occured to me. Prime talked about how he conducted a tickling survey, and how others attacked him for it. Ok, I've met prime, albeit briefly, and I know for a fact that he is a charasmatic and although I am no 'mo he is also an attractive guy. Which is to say he can get away with activity like that without giving out a weird vibe. Someone else may have a problem, and may have securtiy called on them for doing the exact same thing. Charming and good looking individuals can get away with a little bit more, and that is just how life is.

 

[isabeau]

You know what i find ironic? Iggy Pop brought up an interesting fact..the girl probably forgot it fifteen minutes after the fact...and this thread goes on and on, long after the event had occurred..going over and over the same opinions..

 

[lk70]

You know what i find ironic? Iggy Pop brought up an interesting fact..the girl probably forgot it fifteen minutes after the fact...and this thread goes on and on, long after the event had occurred..going over and over the same opinions..

That's the best point that's been made yet.

 

[Illtcklu]

You know what i find ironic? Iggy Pop brought up an interesting fact..the girl probably forgot it fifteen minutes after the fact...and this thread goes on and on, long after the event had occurred..going over and over the same opinions..

That's the best point that's been made yet.

I agree!

 

[isabeau]

That's the best point that's been made yet.

thanks sometimes i do make sense...and this thread has gone as far as it should...

 

[maniactickler]

thanks sometimes i do make sense...and this thread has gone as far as it should...

I agree! let me officially end this thread with a huge release!

 

[primetime]

it's a little strange coming from a guy, but thanks for the compliment Iggy.. by the way, are you going to any other SoCal gatherings soon?

also, you do make a good point. the girl who was tickled is probably not even thinking about it anymore, but yet we have people saying a crime was committed. i think everything is blown out of proportion when in reality, it was really no big deal.

i definitely remember what happened to me when i posted the survey results. i had people threatening to call law enforcement on me.....amazing...

 

[steph]

(hands him a towel...)
Ewwwwwwww!

XOXO

I agree! let me officially end this thread with a huge release!

 

[ViperGTS]

i definitely remember what happened to me when i posted the survey results. i had people threatening to call law enforcement on me.....amazing...

I missed it...what happened?

 

[drew70]

I missed it...what happened?

Prime conducted a harmless tickle survey at a college, posted the results here, and received basically the same hypocritically pious bullshit that was heaped on Skullduggery. One asshole even claimed to have contacted the police and the college authorities about it.

Though the thread's been raped pretty thoroughly, there's still enough to get the gist of things.

http://70.85.147.102/showthread.php?t=40897

After reading both that thread this thread, one gets the sense of a mob mentality here at the TMF that in my opinion speaks rather poorly of us as a community.

 

[jaba]

grab both the torches.....and the pitchforks......

After reading both that thread this thread, one gets the sense of a mob mentality here at the TMF that in my opinion speaks rather poorly of us as a community.

If one had not read the initial occurrence, and only read much of the self righteous indignation that followed on this thread, one would have sworn that the kid lopped off the young girl's foot with a chainsaw and screamed maniacally as he wooshed down the water slide with her bloody appendage!.......