Gay People...

[Battousai]

I would not care at all....as long as you truly love that person, gender is not a factor.

Just what I would say!

Anyway, I can actually speak from personal experience, as one of my close friends came out of the closet a while ago. I think it was pretty brave of him -- he just decided to post it on his Live Journal one day for everyone he knows, as well as anyone else who looked to know!

As for me, it didn't change how I felt at all. We've continued to be good friends over the years as if nothing changed.

 

[TklDuo-Ann]

Second warning. Enough of the garbage. Keep it on topic and can the insults. This is a valid topic with valid opinions being expressed by many. Don't mess it up for the rest.

Ann

 

[Neutron]

My Opinion..

When I started this thread I meant it to be however the reader wanted it to be. In other words what would be the reaction if you came out, OR if a co worker or friend came out. I was hoping it would stay on a more what if basis, without mudslinging. I'm still astounded a poster would say, Well they bring it upon themselves. That could be said about any stereotypical group. All you have to do is look, or interpret in whatever convenient means you choose. Of all the responses here, Steves, one that started out well ended up being the most disappointing to me.
I have a question for natural tickler: You say it's ok with you as long as they don't hit on you or make an advance towards you. I'm curious, have you ever made an advance to a co worker? Or implied you want to? What exactly is the difference?

My opinion.. I could care less. Like it or not, there are gay people among us, and there are more and more everyday. I don't mean percentagewise, I mean the World has more people than ever before, even at the same percentages the odds are you're working with gay people, or even multiple gay people.
Now, how many same sex workers have hit on you? I dooubt too many, if any. Most, because of the stigma attached, are probably already in decent relationships, and they aren't any more likely than you and I to just throw that away.
I've been in two professions that at best are on the anti gay side , at worst are flaming anti gay. I also originally attended college at a place that has a reputation for being very pro gay. Wanna know something funny? The people at all three were exactly the same. They had the same dreams, hopes, fears, and were all decent hard working people. In college, the defensive tackle that played in front of me was gay. Most guys on the team knew it, I knew it because he was my room mate. He was also one of the best ball players I ever had the pleasure of playing with, a guy whose number one priority was keeping me from getting tied up by blockers, AND to keep me from being injured. Maybe I was lucky, my parents raised me to not have built in bias towards sexual preference or color. They emphasised independence and open minded thought. Also, since I was in a college that had a lot of open gay people I was at best in a slight majority. So it wasn't that much of a concern I guess. I was never concerned that Pitch would bring his boyfriends home, anymore than he was concerned about walking in on me and my girlfriends. Like any good room mates we had signals to let the other know, find somewhere else to stay tonight. I also had no problems with his friends, I'd guess about half of his friends were gay, and they were excellent people. We often teased each other about coming over to the "darkside"
When I was in the Navy it simply wasn't discussed because there were rules against it. The funny thing is, Many here might say, Oh come now Tron, any observant adult can tell the difference. And I'll say bullshit on that one. Having lived with a gay guy for 2 years, and having attended class with many gays, and knowing Pitches froiends I of all people should have had a finally honed sense of "Gaydar". Fact is, unless someone told me I couldn't tell. And neither could any of you.

Tron

 

[giantfan121262]

I really won't care one way or the other as long as their interests don't conflict with mine.

Being that I have some friends that are homosexual, I think that alot of the ones I have come in contact with are more in touch with their feelings and are much more compassionate and sensitive thus making them much easier to talk to.

 

[giantfan121262]

Re: My Opinion..

Fact is, unless someone told me I couldn't tell. And neither could any of you.

Tron [/B][/QUOTE]

you must have just made this post. Well said, dude. I also lived with a guy, who was a good friend of mine in college, who was gay and it didn't matter to me one way or the other.

 

[Oblesklk]

I was wondering. In your respective professions and lives what would the general reaction if you had a co worker/friend/someone you know, all of a sudden came out of the closet or it was rumored they were gay?

My profession is skilled, stressful white collar; my background is very blue collar. In my background (read: high school and younger days), the gay fellow/lass would've been abused quite a bit. Verbally, to be sure, but also some physical intimidation/violence would be likely too. Sad, but an honest evaluation.

However, those I work with directly, in these modern days, more than likely wouldn't care less, and would actually wonder how someone would find time to be gay and have fun 🙂 There would be an initial shock if someone came out, but after that, business as usual. Because as you've said, Neutron, it's very tough to tell when people are gay/ticklers/foot guys, etc unless they come out and tell you. There are signs, mind you, but you can never definitely be sure. So it's always "something" of a surprise.

I think our clients, more than average, would have a problem with it, if someone was gay. But not my co-workers.

And just to meander even further, I too attended a very liberal college. I got my first job at the university as a freshman, and I had 5 supervisors. 4 of them were gay. No joke, it's like some poorly written comedy. And I found out one of my best friends in college was gay, during our junior year. He didn't really make any grandiose statements or stumble around with it. He just showed me an IRC channel he frequented where he met a lot of local guys. Funny crowd. After that, when he was with Stacie and I, the two of them would point out cute guys across campus, while I would imagine the kind of laughs gals around campus had when tickled. Quite the threesome.

I don't know, you just kind of reach a certain point in your life, after having spent so much time in education, in love, in heartache, in misery and joy, in losing your way and then finding yourself, and all else...gay people just don't seem important to me. At all. I have much bigger fish to fry in my life than to worry if X is covorting with Y after hours. Maybe I'm getting jaded in my old age, but I just couldn't care less.

 

[TKpervert]

Beautifully stated Oblesklk, you have a gift for putting words together to make a memorable message.
Treasure your gift and use it often.

 

[Dave2112]

Steering clear of all OT stuff, and going right to the original post...

I rarely agree with Tron on things these days, but a valid, intelligent point is such and deserves a response.

Here's my overall view of homosexuality from me and also how I'm sure my co-workers would respond. Myself, I could care less. No wait, let me rephrase that...not caring at all is what makes us so anti-social in the first place. What I care about is people's happiness. Look at the world around you. It's not a very happy place right now. If you can find one other person to make you happy....some man, some woman, doesn't matter. Grab that happiness and hang on with all you've got. Take happiness where you can find it and screw everyone else. I have no fear of a gay man "coming on to me" any more than I have a fear of a woman I don't find appealing coming on to me. I'd handle it the same way. Politely, and "No, thank you." That's all that's needed.

Many people seem to think that gay men are on the prowl for any man around. Think about this. If you're a guy, do you find every single woman on the planet attractive and wish you could have sex with them? Same for women with guys. Just because a man likes men, it doesn't mean he likes all men.

As far as my co-workers, I can sadly say there are a few who wouldn't take it that well. I currently live in the redneck, extra-chromosome capital of the northern world, and acceptance isn't very abundant. Sad. I had a close friend in the early '90's who was gay. I found out he was gay when he intimated an attraction to me. I was not the slightest bit offended and simply told him I wasn't the slightest bit gay. I was concerned about being able to remain friends, but he was cool with my stand as well and we remained good friends until we lost touch a few years back. It's just like staying friends with a woman you don't want to date who likes you to some extent. It's possible with the right amount of maturity.

This is from the Rush song "Nobody's Hero" that I think sums it up...

"I knew he was different in his sexuality,
I went to his parties as the straight minority.
It never was a threat to my masculinity,
Only introduced me to a wider reality..."

😎

 

[njjen3953]

I have a few comments.

1. Krokus, you are amazing. You have changed so much in the past couple of years. Without sounding patronizing, I would like to say how proud of you I am. 🙂

2. If gay men should stay away from the proctology field, then I guess all you foot lovers should never become podiatrists or shoe salesmen? 🙄

there is a lesbian gym teacher in my kids jr.high. i haven't heard one kid not make a disparaging remark about her. she's been caught looking in on the girls while they dress in the locker room. some parents have had their kids pulled from her class. they do seem to make their own trouble.

3. Junior High School girls never do anything wrong and are totally self-sufficient, so there is no need for a teacher to check on them.
NOT !!!!!! At camp this summer, we were not supposed to go into the shower house with the girls. If we didn't come in every once in a while, they would have never come out.

Fact is, unless someone told me I couldn't tell. And neither could any of you.

4. I have to disagree here. My "gaydar" is impeccable. Male or female, I know. I used to be one. "3953"

Finally, to answer the question. Live and let live. We all need love and who am I to judge who one should love.

 

[TklDuo-Ann]

I have no fear of a gay man "coming on to me" any more than I have a fear of a woman I don't find appealing coming on to me. I'd handle it the same way. Politely, and "No, thank you." That's all that's needed.

Ditto. When I was in college, the bar we all hung out at happened to be a "gay" bar. It had the cheapest drinks and the best music. I got hit on by guys and gals alike, as did everyone else in the place. We went knowing that this would be the case and were fine with it. There were only three incidents in all my times there when someone was pushy...two guys and one gal...all three drunk at the time. The gal apologized the next time I saw her. The guys never bothered.

Fact is, unless someone told me I couldn't tell. And neither could any of you.

I think part of the problem here is that some people would be looking at the stupid stereotypes and trying to judge from that. In that type of situation, I would agree. i.e. - The guy I was dating when my brother came out of the closet said that he thought he sensed it (paraphrasing here) because of his girly manner and lisping. I wanted to deck him! My brother is one of the most masculine guys I know...not macho, but definitely manly. It was his emotional responses to people that made me wonder. There were no other signs...and certainly no lisping. I think some people mix up simply being gay with being a drag queen type. They are NOT one in the same. That would be like saying that every foot fetishist is a tickle lover...or vica versa.

I do believe that it's possible to discern that some people are gay or not. But, it's not because of those kinds of stereotypes. It's much the same as how I knew my brother was. If you know them well enough and watch them interact with others for long enough, there are signals that can be picked up. You usually know when a person is simply looking at someone else and when they're interested. Aside from that, I agree with Mike.

There is no real set way to know...unless they come out and tell you. So, for those who think they can walk by someone on the street and just "know", I'm very skeptical. I suspect that this would often fall into one of two scenarios...1) wishful thinking or 2) discomfort with the person leading one to think that they "must be".

Ann

 

[Deleted member 2452]

request to tron.

would you p.m. me, i'd like to discuss how i dissapointed you.
i don't understand, and think it would be better if it were taken off the boards.

steve

 

[TklDuo-Ann]

Re: request to tron.

think it would be better if it were taken off the boards.

Steve, while I can't speak for tron, I CAN speak as the mod who editted the post. I left the comment in because it was a valid response to the topic input. It doesn't mean we have to agree. But, it breaks no rules and is not an insult...just an opinion he has a right to.

Ann

 

[Deleted member 2452]

Steve, while I can't speak for tron, I CAN speak as the mod who editted the post. I left the comment in because it was a valid response to the topic input. It doesn't mean we have to agree. But, it breaks no rules and is not an insult...just an opinion he has a right to.

Ann

hi ann. i didn't take it as an insult, why should i have? i agree he has a right to his opinions, and to express them. gee so do i, don't i?
as i said in my post to him, i'd like to discuss it with him, but feel this thread is long enough, and filled with too much bitterness ,and political correctness, to carry on a private conversation with tron. that's why i requested him to send me a p.m..
hope that clarifies my post ann.
steve

 

[TklDuo-Ann]

yep. It does. Thanks, steve

Ann

 

[Mimi]

Bravo Tron and Dave2112, on excellent posts. I could not have stated my own views on the subject any better than the two of you have. I applaud you both.

Mimi

 

[crydun]

Debate is fine guys...even if heated. However, personal insults are NOT. Please keep on topic and leave the other stuff out of the conversation.

That having been said, I think that making blanket statements about groups of people is a mistake...one that hurts everyone. There are individuals within every group of people that can be said to be good. bad, or anything in between. But, to say that an entire group is thus is simply inaccurate. Let's remember guys, people see US as freaks at times too. Are we? I think not, as a rule. But, there may actually be a person here or there who IS disturbed/dangerous/whatever else we may look at those who are different as being. Do we want to be judged/condemned along with them? I sure don't! We don't have to agree with a particular lifestyle to see those who live it in the light of truth rather than fear or prejudice.

Ann

Ann, I love you! Will you be my aunt?? You always get to the point and do so in a matter of fact, objective manner. I admire you for that. Have a great day!!

 

[Neutron]

Thank You..

To all those who replied. for those of you who have disagreed with me in the past I know how tough it is to give a compliment in a thread. It speaks volumes about your respective characters when you give a good response, and compliment someone you've disagreed with in the past. I also happen to agree with your replies.

jen I'm sorry. I have to cry bullshit, You're not anymore likely to be able to tell if a person is gay than any of the rest of us. Nice try though.

steve, Don't sweat it. I wasn't trying to take a personal shot at you. What surprised me was your statement that they "Bring It On Themselves" It's been my experience in life no minority group brings anything on themselves. And if speaking out for their personal rights is "bring it on themselves" then I wish more gays, or people in general would do so. Let me ask you something, If taxes are raised and you're outspoken against them being raised, DID you bring repercussions against yourself, OR did you stand up for your legal right to dissent? I tend to believe the later, and instead of you BRinging something on yourself, people who don't understand your legal rights or even basic human decency, are inflicting something UNDESERVED on you.
Let me ask you this. Many years ago there was a student uprising in China. A very brave young man (who by the way is still missing) stood up in front of a Chinese tank. The picture is famous. Do you believe he brought his disappearance and potential on himself? oR do you believe as I do, a bigger issue was at stake? Granted what he did is bigger than any gay dude coming out of the closet. BUT the underlying principle is the same. Someone who lights a stick of dynamite and blows himself up "brings it on himself". someone who speaks out for their right to choose and is very upfront about it isn't bringing anything upon themselves. That person is standing up for what they believe or feel.
Now if they cause damage to someone else, then yes whatever they get is "brought on themselves".

giantfan. While I admire your posts (and thank you for responding) I seriously doubt a gay guy is any more likely to listen to your problems than a straight guy. My guess is this. You might be somewhat afraid to open up to your straight friends because usually thats something guys just don't do. My guess is you got over that hurdle you'd find your straight friends are just as understanding and easy to talk to as your gay friends.

Tron

 

[Deleted member 2452]

thanks for your response tron.

i'll try to answer your questions.
i really think taxes is is poor example. writing a letter to the editor, or even your congressman, is an excepted practice. even if you want to scream in the park about the unfairness of taxes, hey fine with me, but you will end up being chaced off by the cops or arrested. we're talking about sex here, and life styles, which is a far cry from taxes. some things don't need to be "shared". as a matter of fact, many would be better off if they keep their personal lives just that; personal!

that "very brave chinese man" wasn't so young, he was in his late 30's at the time. yes he was brave, or foolish, or both. he was put on trial, and sent to a labor camp for "long time no come see".
i admire his courage, and longing to have freedom. again, i don't think this was a proper comparison.

members of my family, and my self, were molested by homosexuals in positions of authority. i already mentioned my sister being fondled by a lezie, and my self. i was RAPED by a known homosexual who was in a position of authority. i mentioned another lesbian who is a teacher in the local jr. high. she has been caught peeping on the little girls. these have not been the kind of instances that njjen was talking about. parents pulled their kids out of the class. some pulled their kids out of the school alltogether.
this is the kind of thing happening that i ment, when i said they bring trouble on them selves. as for the person who likened this to one of us working as a shoe salesman (ala al bundy) damn right! that's exactly why i don't work around womens feet! i would get into trouble ,and will freely admit it! and any homosexual who would work in a urologists office is a fool, who's just looking for trouble.
if you're already carrying a stigma like this around, you don't want to draw attention to yourself further by being in positions that will cause suspision.

now i know i have been labeled openly, and mentaly by most here as a crazed homophob. ya know what? i couldn't give any less of a shit!
i know who i am, and how i treat people, ALL PEOPLE. if any here thinks they "know me" by what i post, they are bigger fools than they ever feared they'd be! i don't approve of homosexuality, but i don't have too! conversly, no one needs my permission to be homosexual!


what it all boils down to is, leave your sexuality at home where it belongs! no one out side of your lover needs to know about it.

steve

 

[crydun]

Re: thanks for your response tron.

what it all boils down to is, leave your sexuality at home where it belongs! no one out side of your lover needs to know about it.

steve

ditto, steve!

 

[Neutron]

And People..

Have been raped by heterosexuals too. Or haven't you checked the rape statistics in this country as of late?
And animal is an animal, regardless of how they're sexually wired. The stigma isn't homosexual, the stigma is rapist, and hopefully people can tell the difference.
By your logic every liberal anti war protestor is damaged. They usually tend to speak the loudestwith the least amount of fact. Yet I support their right to do so. I find it odd when people clamor about individual rights, yet feel they should be able to pick and choose which of those rights are the ones that can be spoken about...

Ok I'm wondering. You say people should leave their sexuality at home.. So I wonder, have you ever held your wifes hand or kissed her in public?

By the way that Chinese man was 19 years old. NOT in his early 30s.

Tron

 

[red indian]

Help me out guys!!........

...I am not sure i would know when a gay guy was "coming on to me" in a work place type situation, but then again, I never know when women are doing it either! I,m usually too busy shouting down the fone at some poor sod.

One thing I do hate about all this minority group stuff, is that they are in danger of becoming over protected by all this politically correct bollocks. It seems to be the first thing out of any ones mouth these days when the are in a tight spot, just accuse the other guy of being anti black, anti gay, or whatever, and you dont have to defend yourself any further.

I had a realtionship with a black girl for a number of years and if she was ever in a tight spot in an argument or knew she was in the wrong she always had her "get out of jail card" which was to call me a racist!!! (go figure as you folks say)

 

[tickledorange]

To me, it doesn't matter if someone's gay. As long as I dont have girls hitting on me wherever I go or there are still lots of cute straight guys I seriously dont care. 😉
Stacy

 

[Neutron]

red indian lOL

I agree, I couldn't tell if a dude was hitting on me, because hell I can't tell if a lady is hitting on me. I usually have to be told.

And Stacey, you hit a key point, I used to think hell let more guys be gay, that leaves more ladies for me. Then I looked in a mirror and realized I'm still me, so that theory got shot all to fuck.

Tron

 

[giantfan121262]

Hey Dave2112

First of all I want to say that I really enjoyed reading your post.

Secons of all...getting off the subject for a second...I gather the 2112 part is cuz you are a Rush fan.

Great taste!!!! One of my all time favorite groups. Especially the older stuff. Multi talented, for sure. I liked everything up until Signals.

Favorite Album

Permanent Waves

Favorite Songs

Spirit of the Radio
Temples of Syrnex
The Analog Kid
Countdown
Red Barchetta
Limelight
Passage to Bangkok
Jacobs Ladder
Freewill
Xanadu

Best Show

Moving Pictures Tour

Great to see a Rush fan in the forum!!

 

[dskodj]

Well..my best friend is gay, and im straight. Its just a lifestyle. When your actualy around him you'd never know. I have no problems with any preferences really. If im agenst any race..its the human race😛

DJ Jimmy M

PS I never knew Rush had anything called Xanadu..the only one I know is the ELO soundtrack..clue me in on this!