Is polyamory just a feel-good euphemism for adultery?

[LindyHopper]

I say eighty percent of people get into a relationship because of circumstance, loneliness, geography, or lust. Very few people get into a relationship because they love the other person to the point of wanting them to be happy even when it comes to sacrificing their own self. The ones that do are the ones that last a long time because they arent in it for themselves but are looking to be together with their mate to increase what they love about them and make it better. Even if it means stepping aside and not being the one that is the answer or the solution. In my opinion, if a couple can surround themselves with others to increase their relationship without any kind of jealousy but have trust then more power too them.

I like the sentiment of giving, of desiring your partner's happiness... but I don't really relate to the self-sacrificing bit. You make it sound so noble and depressing! 😛

I don't think we're poly because we place our partners' happiness above our own. I think we're poly because it gives us the opportunity to let other people enrich our lives, both as individuals and as a couple. We learn from each other. We have fun together. It really doesn't feel like self-sacrifice at all.

 

[Knox The Hatter]

Polyamory?

I said that word out loud just now. In the other room, my next door neighbor asked what that was. Before I could answer, she said she thinks it's that TV critic who wrote those bestselling books about his cat.

 

[lk70]

Polyamory?

I said that word out loud just now. In the other room, my next door neighbor asked what that was. Before I could answer, she said she thinks it's that TV critic who wrote those bestselling books about his cat.

LOL.. That would be the late great Cleveland Amory. And he was single...wonder what antisocial sexual perversions he had hidden? Hmm...the cat.... 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄

 

[RobAce]

Ehhhh... If it feels right, do it.
Thats how I look at it.
After all I dont see anyone in a Polyamory type relationship telling me how evil and wrong it is to be in a monogomous relationship, or trying to convince me to join them.
For me its a matter of personal preferance and thats that.
Would I do it? Nope, its not for me.
But do I frown upon others for doing it? Nope.
Whatever problems arise, they deal with it, as in my own relationships.
I dont need to be the "I told you so" police, if they screw up...they will know it and dont need me or anyone else rubbing their nose in it like a puppy that just poo-pooed on the floor.
Just as in my current divorce, I dont have anyone telling me I messed up and that their way is the better way.
As long as people are happy, I dont care if they have a wife, a mistress, a call-girl, a Labrador Retreiver and a massage chair they claim to be in a relationship with. It doesn't bother me, and I dont bother them.

Rob

 

[Amnesiac]

Hmm. If you say so, but I'm not really seeing it.

That thread posting was meant to point out that people allow culture to define themselves. Therefore, if the mainstream world says poly relationships are the actions of broken people, it could be the idea of society that anything not conforming to the norm is a malfunction that needs to be corrected. Or avoided if at all possible through the proper conditioning.
It kinda went the racial route to explain it, but that's the gist I was getting at with the link posting.

You're also right about the subpools, but still it would be nicer if those subpools didn't require Indiana Jones to help you find them.

I've been having some interesting conversations with my therapist friend over this topic since I've found it...I'll have to post some of her thoughts when I get enough of them.

 

[dvnc]

The fun part, for me at least, is remembering that "norm" is greater than 40%. Normal is a concept that gets applied where not necessarily fair, viable, safe, sane, etc.

Do recall that it was normal to have slaves, beat wives with a stick no larger than your thumb, kill a man so long as he agreed to a duel and brought a second, etc. Normal gets proven outta whack regularly. Was illegal to be homosexual, or even participate in anal sex. Gasp...

Therapists can be great for getting perspectives. Then again, like any other profession, these are people doing the job. If one cheating monogamist skews their view, it taints any acceptance possible. If parents had such issues, likewise this is skewed. A very small number of asinine people can propigate a lack of acceptance, and even outright apathy, fairly solidly.

Marriage, though, is accepted, despite being an institution whose norm is divorce, now. More than 40% of married folk don't STAY married. There's a norm that changed.

This is, without question, an intricate topic. Adultery still happens, and all we can think to do to solve it is to punish. Not sure that changed anything, given that it's gotten more obviously extreme with divorce happening so often, so quickly now.

Wouldn't it be swell if folks actually negotiated such possibilities BEFORE binding themselves in a legal socio-economic partnership?

 

[isabeau]

i don't know if i'm normal or not. we will have been married twenty eight years in august..my one and only marriage up to date lol..so far...

 

[drew70]

Normal or not, I think that's a beautiful thing, Isabeau. It's really nice to see that the value of traditional monogamy is still recognized in this "enlightened" day and age. I hope you never accept any criticism for keeping your marital commitments.

 

[Redmage]

i don't know if i'm normal or not. we will have been married twenty eight years in august..my one and only marriage up to date lol..so far...

Join the club, Izzy! Michele and I have been together as a couple for 27 years this fall, married for 20 next spring. And we've been poly pretty much the whole time. It's nice to know that both traditional and non-traditional marriages work over the long term.

 

[BellaRisa]

Join the club, Izzy! Michele and I have been together as a couple for 27 years this fall, married for 20 next spring. And we've been poly pretty much the whole time. It's nice to know that both traditional and non-traditional marriages work over the long term.

Congrats! Y'know, I find that most poly people that I know are very happily married, and for a number of years; we're coming up on our 13th anniversary, 14 yrs together . One thing that fascinates me though, is the notion of monogamy being more 'traditional' for marriage, with poly seen as something new. Multi-person marriages and relationships have been found to be at least as old as monogamy, in fact they're often speculated to be quite a bit older in many parts of the world. Guess everything old is new again

Bella

 

[Redmage]

One thing that fascinates me though, is the notion of monogamy being more 'traditional' for marriage, wit poly seen as something new. Multi-person marriages and relationships have been found to be at least as old as monogamy, in fact they're often speculated to be quite a bit older in many parts of the world.

Indeed. Even in the Bible both David and Solomon had not only multiple wives, but concubines on top of that. God never takes them to task for this. In fact God cleared the way for David to marry his second wife, Abigail, by killing her husband Nabal, who had given David offense.

Those who stand up for monogamy in the name of "tradition" never seem to recall these stories, even when the tradition they're defending is supposedly laid down in the Bible.

 

[isabeau]

drew70 and redmage thank you both...we had our ups and downs..i challenge any husband to go through what david had to go through with me.. losing babies, some husbands would have blamed the wife and then left.. when dad was dying, david was the one who said we could take care of him, and i also challenge many husbands.. would you change your father in law's diapers? and putting up with mom's delusions for years... no marriage is perfect, and ours sure isn't, but i will say this... he is my touch stone.. my rock..without him i would be nothing.

 

[dvnc]

Okay, so I see a few poly kids, and Isabeau. I know Drew attends Gatherings, as I met him at NEST, but not with his wife.

I'm not seeing a lot else. Anyone home?

For those that DON'T know, I'm married. I hosted gatherings for nearly a decade. Through several partners. All consented to my hosting these events. Longest-term partner attended MOST of them. I'm out to them all.

Fidelity is a grand topic. Drew lauds Isabeau. May I take, from this, that you both communicate your interest, and your participation in this forum, and with other tickling partners, and that you both DON'T find this tickling thing to be sexual in the SLIGHTEST? I ask, as it seems quizzical. The poly kids are negotiated. The openly-kinked are out and open with their partners. I'm not hearing this from you, Drew and Isabeau, and I'm curious, since you're both participating in this end of this thread, whether or not this is something your partner would be able to discuss, with me, in a phonecall?

I know, Drew, for instance, that you've talked with my wife, as you saw her at the same NEST at which you saw me.

It's very easy to point fingers, kids. The poly kids are open about things with their partners. If you are, good on you. If you're not, then who's crossing the lines in this thread's initial topic?

Adultery. Playing outside of your relationship.

I return us to the topic - Is polyamoury just a feel-good euphemism for adultery?

I find this topic very interesting. If you're not polyamourous, you're judging kinks like folks judge tickling, which makes you just as much fun as the folks that call US weird, freakish, etc. If you ARE, do you feel that you're adulterous?

I've been serially monogamous, within a kinked relationship, and open about sexual play (BDSM, etc.) and my partner, though not into me rolling out and getting naked with others intimately all the time, had NO issue with gatherings. Played at mine. I have the videos. 😉 We weren't traditional polyamourous partners. I never considered her cheating when she played, or adulterous. Wouldn't consider my wife adulterous if she'd negotiated that kind of relationship ahead of time. Even today.

I welcome the discussion of this topic again, as I'm hearing a LOT of good polyamoury support, but no logic or thinking that shows otherwise.

Do feel free to ignore my desire to know things. I ask intimate truths. I expect no answer, but would welcome what answers I get.

 

[isabeau]

um, dvnc when have you seen me judge??? i only stated how long i've been married.. and yes i discuss this forum with david..

 

[dvnc]

THAT'S what I wanna hear, darlin'. That you're married, which I already knew from other threads, don't tell folks readin' that you're out wit' your partner.

Which means that your interest in a sexual forum is a KNOWN part of your marriage. Good on ya, lady?

Anyone else?

 

[isabeau]

THAT'S what I wanna hear, darlin'. That you're married, which I already knew from other threads, don't tell folks readin' that you're out wit' your partner.

Which means that your interest in a sexual forum is a KNOWN part of your marriage. Good on ya, lady?

Anyone else?

what? and yes i tell him everything.. he doesn't agree, in fact he thinks i'm sick..

 

[dvnc]

Like I said, good on ya, darlin'...

 

[Deadsea7777]

I solved this problem long ago:

If I do it is I am polyamorous!!!

If she does it :
She a cheating adulterous bitch!!

If we shear our lovers we are so cooooll!!!

 

[isabeau]

Like I said, good on ya, darlin'...

thank you , dvnc.. i felt you were against me, i realize that you aren't

 

[kis123]

After 10 years of hell in my marriage, I've come to some conclusions but still have many unanswered questions.

Since I refuse to ever again be in a relationship where I would be dominated, manipulated, or controlled I know that I will probably never be married again. I've learned first hand that it's not called an institution for nothing! It simply isn't for me-I don't need anyone thinking for me thank you very much! I really have yet to meet a man that can do better for me than I can for myself (with exception of one area). I've learned to enjoy living alone and don't know if I want that taken away again.

My new attitude has taken me on a bit of a quest because I've never opened my mind to any other type of relationship except the "traditional." I've enjoyed most of the responses regarding poly, BDSM, and other things I didn't know prior to being a TMF member. Bella might even remember an exchange we had about 2yrs ago about "traditional vs poly" relationships. Some folks tried to turn it into a slugfest when it was only two women sharing opinions and ideas and respectfully agreed to disagree. I was just coming out of my brainwashed religion lifestyle and still had some of that mess to shake off!

That is where a lot of this is coming from-religious leftovers! In the Old Testament, it was all right to have as many wives and concubines as you can take care of. The New Testament-one husband of one wife. This was also after the ascension of Christ, so I didn't see the part where Jesus changed the rules! I've never understood that nor have I ever gotten a straight answer from the religious community.

I also think for the most part, that most aren't meant to be with one person for life. Even in the longest of marriages, many have survived adultery. They simply chose to stay together. I watch one of my sisters and her husband cheat on each other constantly, yet celebrate 25 years of marriage. I personally find it disturbing, but they're still together right?

I have spent the last three years of my life listening to many of you and how you have happy marriages but have negotiated things in your relationships. I don't think they'd work for me, but they seem to work for you. I've learned to keep my mind open and learn a few things. I just don't have the energy to judge anyone for their lifestyle choices anymore.

 

[isabeau]

kis love.... 'm sorry to disappoint you.. but in all our years of marriage, there has been no adultery.. i might have strayed in my thoughts, heck i'm only human.. but i can assure you that neither david nor myself have ever cheated... now i am not saying i am against polyamorus relationships, quite the contrary...but david would well i won't say what he would do if i ever even so much as brought up that subject..

 

[BellaRisa]

Um...

what? and yes i tell him everything.. he doesn't agree, in fact he thinks i'm sick..

I have a question. Izzy, I hope you don't mind my using your post, I am absolutely *not* picking on you and I think 28 yrs is incredible ; but your words are a good example of something that often confuses me.

How can someone be your rock, to the point that you'd be lost without them, and still call you 'sick'?

I ask because to me, a huge part of marriage of any kind is never ever judging or hurting your loved one. I thought your partner was always to be your soft place to fall, the one who understands when the rest of the world doesn't. My hubby would die before ever calling me names or insulting me in any way, or putting down my kinks or any other interest of mine; he never has in the 14 yrs we've been together, even the ones he doesn't share he respects. Meanwhile, married couples that vowed to love and honor and cherish one another, but constantly break the last two and often all three of those vows with all kinds of bile and vitriol, are considered more 'commited' if they're monogamous. That makes my head just spin, and frankly it ain't right.

I think the concept of commitment is defined by sex instead of more important behaviors way, way too often. But perhaps that's just me...

Bella

 

[isabeau]

I have a question. Izzy, I hope you don't mind my using your post, I am absolutely *not* picking on you and I think 28 yrs is incredible ; but your words are a good example of something that often confuses me.

How can someone be your rock, to the point that you'd be lost without them, and still call you 'sick'?

I ask because to me, a huge part of marriage of any kind is never ever judging or hurting your loved one. I thought your partner was always to be your soft place to fall, the one who understands when the rest of the world doesn't. My hubby would die before ever calling me names or insulting me in any way, or putting down my kinks or any other interest of mine; he never has in the 14 yrs we've been together, even the ones he doesn't share he respects. Meanwhile, married couples that vowed to love and honor and cherish one another, but constantly break the last two and often all three of those vows with all kinds of bile and vitriol, are considered more 'commited' if they're monogamous. That makes my head just spin, and frankly it ain't right.

I think the concept of commitment is defined by sex instead of more important behaviors way, way too often. But perhaps that's just me...

Bella

ahh very good question.. to understand my husband , which can be difficult.. he is very old fashioned in regards to anything which he considers out of the norm..when i say he is my rock i meant during all the tragedies which occurred throughout our marriage.. i only realized in this last year that i had this fetish... always before i kept it hidden within myself..and until i discovered this forum, i thought i was alone in my thoughts regarding tickling and bondage... but no matter how many times i explain this to him, he will not understand...and that is my eternal problem.. but for everything else in my life, david has been there for me... i suppose i can't have everything...

 

[BellaRisa]

That is where a lot of this is coming from-religious leftovers! In the Old Testament, it was all right to have as many wives and concubines as you can take care of. The New Testament-one husband of one wife. This was also after the ascension of Christ, so I didn't see the part where Jesus changed the rules! I've never understood that nor have I ever gotten a straight answer from the religious community.

Heya Kis,

http://www.patriarchywebsite.com/monogamy/mono-history.htm

This is a really good site about how monogamy as we know it came to be, I think it'll answer a few of your questions. It was more about Roman ideals of property and inheritance than Jesus

One thing that I don't think is mentioned enough in these conversations is this: poly people hate being cheated on just as much as mono people. And heck yes, you can be poly and still cheat. The only difference is how cheating is defined in your relationship. Most poly couples in my experience, especially primary partners, have activities and/or aspects of their union that are only for each other, rituals and experiences that are special for just them. To violate that is to 'cheat', and it can be a nasty thing indeed just as with mono folks. Betrayal is betrayal, period. It may be certain sexual activities, or it may be something totally non-sexual that's sacred to that couple. And honoring that whatever-it-is is very, very important to the hearts of those involved. Honor and honesty and respect are valued elements of any good relationship, including (and perhaps especially) those that are poly.

Bella

 

[ticklkitten]

I read about the first six pages of this thread.

Fantastic arguments from Mimi, Lindyhopper, Redmage, Bagelfather, Bella and one or two I'm unfortunately forgetting.

My advice is neither well thought out nor all encompassing. But it works for me.

"live and let live... love and let love"

I couldn't be in a poly relationship because I'm the jealous type. but that's me. I don't expect anyone to follow my feelings on the subject.

To each their own people. Don't try to quote scripture when you have no right to hold others in judgement. None of us do.