so why is there a difference between how we view f/f and m/m clips?

[primetime]

no problem Isabeau, in fact, you are a great person to speak about this subject about tolerance. you have admitted that F/F tickling/sexual encounters, feet tickling, really isnt your thing, but you love my stories which are 99% F/F tickling-sex-feet tickling. i really appreciate the "love" you give my work.

i guess people just feel to need to express their opinions, no matter who they may hurt. sucks...

 

[isabeau]

no problem Isabeau, in fact, you are a great person to speak about this subject about tolerance. you have admitted that F/F tickling/sexual encounters, feet tickling, really isnt your thing, but you love my stories which are 99% F/F tickling-sex-feet tickling. i really appreciate the "love" you give my work.

i guess people just feel to need to express their opinions, no matter who they may hurt. sucks...

since i started reading your stories..i have changed my opinion on the f/f tickling encounters...in fact i've written a few stories where that scenario is involved...the thing for me is, whether it's a female or male being tickled in a clip or story, i place myself as the lee in both circumstances....i know i've said this before but i'm saying it again.. and i'm not great...i've just wondered why the difference....as i've said before , it doesn't seem fair to me at all..

and yes i love your stories, so nice of you to notice that...

o and Redmage that is an excellent example thank you for posting that experience...

 

[riboflavin]

Normal M/M clips, such as the stuff on Youtube between friends messing with each other, doesn't bother me at all. Its actually kinda funny to me to see 2 friends wrestling, and one tickles the other guy because hes getting his ass kicked. I dont think the tickler is gay for doing it, nor do i think the ticklee is gay for not giving the tickler a black eye for touching him like that. I also don't get mad at my male friends/family members who've playfully tickled me in the past, nor have i called them gay. Im 102% straight, btw.

Once bondage is included with the tickling, thats where the sexual feelings of tickling arise for me personally, and i enjoy the material that I can fantasize about experiencing myself.

I enjoy F/F because i wouldn't mind personally watching a woman have another woman tied up and tickling her (nudity not completely necessary, but preferred), and it would be even better if i could help the tickler out lol. I also dont think that theyre necessarily lesbians for doing it and enjoying it.

I enjoy M/F because i enjoy fantasizing about myself being in that guy's position, and being able to tickle the hell out of that woman woman (again, nudity not required, but preferred lol).

I enjoy F/M because i also really wouldn't mind being in that guy's position, having myself tied up and tickled by another woman. Any possible male nudity in these doesn't sexually arouse me in the slightest, yet fantasizing about myself being in that position is what is more enjoyable about these to me.

I don't enjoy M/M erotic tickling because I wouldn't enjoy personally watching a guy tie up another guy and tickle him, regardless of their sexually or amounts of nudity. I also wouldn't enjoy personally being in the position of being tied and tickled by another guy (or vice versa), just because of how i feel about tickling + bondage being sexual for me. Being in that situation myself just wouldn't arouse me at all because of my heterosexuality.

The basic act of tickling itself isnt purely sexual for me, and I dont have a problem with guys tickling each other...It's just when bondage and possibly nudity is involved is when I don't enjoy M/M material, because thats where tickling becomes sexually arousing for me, and I wouldn't enjoy taking part in any sexual action with another male.

 

[BellaRisa]

www.purpledollars.com

This is a great article that I think pertains to this subject:

Yes, Women Do Buy Porn

In the last couple of weeks there's been a flurry of discussion about women and porn, mainly due to the results of the latest Nielsen Netratings survey. The statistics reveal that almost one third of porn viewers are women, and in September alone 9.4 million American women accessed porn intentionally.

Interestingly, the sites and journals reporting that women were looking at porn were mostly religious ones, serving up the information with a tone of dismay. This is because a survey by Today's Christian Woman released at the same time as the Nielsen poll revealed that 34% of those women surveyed had intentionally sought out porn. That's right folks, even Good Chaste Christian Women are seeking out a little bit of naughty entertainment on the net.

After more than three years of marketing to women, it's good to have some solid statistics to back up my involvement and belief in this niche. I knew I wasn't the only woman who liked porn!

Nonetheless, cynicism still seems to reign when it comes to the "for women" niche. One of the main objections to these latest statistics runs along the lines of: "Oh sure, women might look at porn, but they don't buy." This broad generalization is usually followed by the next one: "It's because women aren't visual."

The latter statement is nonsensical in the face of the Nielsen poll. Clearly women are looking at porn and getting off on it - even the good churchgoing ones.

The idea that women are misers when it comes to porn is a little more difficult to disprove, if only because no proper studies have been done in this area within our industry, or outside of it. The best I can offer is anecdotal evidence, from my own experiences and from others.

How many women frequent major mainstream paysites is at present known only to their proprietors, but I think - given the sheer numbers quoted in the Nielsen poll - it may be fair to assume that many do have female members. It also appears that smaller, well designed specialty sites attract paying women. LoriWorld, a glamour photography site run by Lori Mann, maintains a customer base of 75% women. Angel, a spokeswoman for Lori, reveals that the numbers have been that way since the site opened 3 years ago. Killshot, owner of fetish/erotica site EroticPBM.com, says 35-40% of his members are women. And an article in Wired.com from June 2002 reported that significant percentages of women were members of the sub-culture porn sites Suicide Girls, Raveporn and Supercult.

All of these sites ostensibly cater to a male audience by offering photos of naked women. At the same time, they differ from standard porn sites in that they are quite niche-specific, and revolve around personalities or a community. Of significance is the fact that these sites don't make use of the standard language of porn ("bitch, slut, *****") and they market themselves as being pro-sex.

In terms of sites created specifically for women, the evidence is again largely anecdotal. Certainly the market is easily supporting at least ten "for women" paysites. Speaking from my own experience, I've been happily making a living from marketing to women almost since the moment I started in this business.

So I think it's fair to say that women are buying porn. At present, of course, they're not buying in the numbers that men are, and the reasons behind this are varied.

Firstly, the vast majority of porn out there is not marketed to women. Indeed, it's not even created for them. Most porn is created for the male viewer, and follows conventions that exist to recreate male fantasy. If women aren't buying, it's because the industry is not asking them to buy. It's barely even asking itself what kind of porn a woman would want to buy, let along trying to offer it. Hence, horny female surfers are turning to sites that at least offer them an open door, through its language, outlook and community.

Secondly, a lot of the porn labeled as being "for women" is actually for gays. A continuing misconception within the industry is that naked men are all women want to see. This is resulting in women constantly encountering what I call "pretend 4women" sites with gay ads and gay hardcore in their search for porn. Even some "for women" paysites feature hardcore gay content. The net result of this confusion is that women are now dismissing porn as being "all gay" and feeling hesitant to buy when the real thing is offered to them.

Thirdly, women have to overcome more obstacles towards accepting the idea of buying porn. Our society has always expected women to be the upholders of morality, not sexual beings who enjoy gratifying themselves. Girls don't grow into a culture of porn in the way that boys do. While teen boys are sniggering about a Playboy, teen girls are reading Cosmopolitan and wondering if their butt looks big. So when a woman goes looking for porn, it seems less "natural" than it does to a guy. This culturally-induced reticence can result in a greater reluctance to pay for porn. Of course, today's young women are far more open to exploring their own sexuality, and surveys have shown that it's the younger chicks who are seeking porn out. And as porn becomes more mainstream, women will become more comfortable with their own porn use, but it's an uphill battle at the moment.

Fourthly, women don't go temporarily insane just because they're horny. They may be keen to get off, but it doesn't make them forget that the bills need to be paid. On top of this, women are used to shopping. They're used to weighing up the pros and cons of an item when making a decision to purchase - even when it's an impulse buy. With porn, women are keen to know what they'll get for their money, and they want to know they won't be ripped off. If we consider that the standard porn site tour is based on graphic appeals to the penis (and vague details about anything else), then it's not surprising that women don't spend as much as men. In my experience women want as much information as possible and that means plenty of text. Pre-selling the site, and making reassurances about security and privacy are vital. Pushing the idea of value for money is also useful.

To sum up, a lot of women do buy porn, albeit in a far more careful and nervous fashion. And if some of them aren't buying, isn't it time we stopped making assumptions about "women" and started to address the reasons why? Isn't it time we stopped blaming the customer and started catering to them instead?

At present, our industry is doing very little to accommodate what has previously been a "hidden" part of the market. A major shift in attitudes and habits is required to truly take advantage of women's interest in porn.

 

[Avenger314]

This is an interesting thread, with some good intellectual opinions being expressed by all. I think I'll weigh in.

Several disclaimers: Flaming is bad. Saying in a clip thread that you don't like that style is pointless. (Though I've no objections to someone starting a thread in discussion saying more feet, less feet, more m/m, more f/m, more bondage, more q-tip tickling, more eating of steak & cheese sandwiches, etc).

All right, on to the actual opinions...

What we need to do is remember that TMF people (those with a special interest in tickling) view tickling differently from those who aren't ticklephiles. Additionally, 'regular' experiences are different from tickling clips made to be tickling clips.

There are a myriad of issues here. I'll tackle the easiest ones first.

Why don't people like M/M?

Consider a TMF member (in this case, a generic straight male) surfing for clips to look at. In all likelihood, there is at least some sexual element to tickling in his mind. Even if it's a clip of two people wearing t-shirt and jeans, tickling has the potential to arouse him.
In my view, clips are arousing to people because there's at least some element of "If I were there"-ness in it. (Someone help me out on the actual term. Projection? Empathy?) So this male is going to watch a variety of clips
M/F is certainly enjoyable to many generic straight male TMF members: He can see himself as the ler. "If it were me tickling that girl..." he might think.
F/F is also enjoyable. In some circumstances it's doubly so--he can envision tickling either girl.
F/M, I imagine, is more of a niche enjoyment. If a man is a lee or a switch, this is an excellent clip for him--he can imagine a girl tickling him. I myself am not really a lee, so I give these clips a pass. Arguably, they make me even more uncomfortable than m/m clips do, because part of me is saying "Get her back! Turn the tables! Damnit, SHE needs to get tickled."
M/M: Here's the issue. The reason why m/m clips make generic straight TMF males uncomfortable revoles around a couple things. First, they're in a 'sexy' mood when looking for clips. Second, the projection I described above. There's basically nothing for him to fantasize about. Whether he imagines himself as tickling a man or being tickled by a man, he would find it uncomfortable to watch: When in a sexual mood, the generic straight male doesn't want other males in his fantasy--whether he's acting upon them or he's being acted upon by them.

Okay, that's why the generic straight TMF male (GSTMFM for short, now) wouldn't like watching tickling clips.

Why wouldn't a GSTMFM like seeing m/m tickling in public? Well--to him, tickling is frequently sexual. So even though the two people doing it are straight themselves and not doing anything sexual, the GSTMFM is seeing it through ticklephile-colored lenses.

The above also explains why people read sexuality where there isn't any. Just because tickling is their fetish, they see sexuality in many tickles. (I HATE being tickled by young people and refuse to do it to them for pretty much that reason. Even if 99.99999% of me knows it's unsexual and just playful, I don't want that .00001% of me forcing me to hell. But I digress).


We're halfway there. Why are m/m clips attacked on this site? Well, to a certain extent, I agree with Drew70--people on this site are a lot more likely to attack someone who dislikes m/m than they are to attack someone who likes it. Whether that's good or bad is beyond the scope of my answer.
But some flames exist. I think some of it is homophobia (though said homosexuality might not exist at all in these clips). Maybe latent homosexuality on the part of the flamers? Possible.

I have to agree with most people who agree that in Western society, gentle physical displays of affection are more accepted between females than males. Is this genetic (hard-coded male/female differences), cultural (mostly western), social (learned behaviors), or imaginary? I have no research to support any reasons to favor any of those four answers.

In short, I don't watch m/m clips, or f/m clips for that matter. Seeing an m/m thread on the forum list does not cause me psychological distress. (seeing only m/m threads instead of */f clips would definitely cause distress, but more due to selfishness than anything else 😀).

So, there we have my two cents. In for a penny, in for... two cents =)

 

[terorizer]

Wow this was all an eyefull to read (I'm not gay. There, got that out of the way).

I can't even remember now what the original question was, so I apologize if this response isn't right on target. (I'm not gay after all)

It all just reminds me of the comment that goes something like "to those that don't understand/believe, no explanation will suffice; to those who do, no explanation is necessary." .... or something like that. (I might remember it better, but I'm not gay.)

I've said before in other threads that I grew up in and still belong to a tickly family. Cousins tickled each other (male or female... and usually males, cuz you were more likely to be rough housing with a boy cousin, but we were all straight. Thought I was gonna say I wasn't gay huh?). I had tickly friends. Again, more likley to be wrestling and tumbling with one of my guy buddies on the playground.

When I was in Junior high, it was almost a daily sight to see someone (usually female), being tickled silly (usually by a guy but not always). In case your forgot I'm not gay. Of course there was a flirty aspect to tickling a girl, or vice versa, but mostly, it was just a funny, silly way to pass the time. Lunch time in the quad? Bored? Someone with their back to you? *POKE* *SQEEEAAAALLLL* Laughter from all ensues.

One of the funniest memories I have is of one of my friends, with his back to a big concrete pillar, and his arms pulled back on either side holding him in place. Apparently he'd mouthed off to some of the larger guys and after chasing him, and catching him had him in this predicament. Now they were all good friends mind you, and 3 took turns alternately punching his legs (think Charlie Murphy on Rick James after he ground his feet into Eddie's sofa..), and tickling the hell outta him. He was hopelessly ticklish, and wow he'd be trying to say "OWWW" from the hits, he'd just shriek with laughter from the tickling. This was hilarious being as I'm not gay.

All of this is to say, (aside from the perfectly homophobe-free observation that I'm not gay)

-Break- All this junior high recollecting is further exacerbated by the fact that Klymaxx's "I Miss You" just came on. Ugh... do you know how much me and my non-gay tickly friends loved this song????

-Unbreak- As I was saying, because of my experiences and my uniqueness I suppose, first and foremost, I view and relate to tickling as a fun, sweet, innocent way of communicating and connecting to someone. It is a very SPECIAL way of doing those things. (there should be a proclamation of not being gay here, but I'm getting sick of trying to be funny, so from now on, the I'm not gay proclamation shall be noted by an asterisk. aka *) It may also bear mentioning that I'm one of those freaky people that can separate sexual tickling from non-sexual tickling without even trying to.

Now, about this M/M stuff. I do recall reading somewhere in a book that generally (American culture), adult men do not tickle each other, unless there is some sort of intimate relationship. * No, not only THAT kinda intimate relationship, but like a real closeness - say that of brothers or teammates, etc. I'd have to say that's generally true of what I've experienced. Brothers...cousins, frat brothers and so on. Even then, it's typically a quick teasing tickle. Usually not prolonged.

Of course we all know that women are typically more physically expressive with each other than men. Some of this actually reminds me of something mentioned in the Breastfeeding thread - as far as society being conditioned to associate one thing with another - breasts with sex; certain touches with intimate advances. There's probably a little of that going on with tickling. Especially if it's prolonged. * I mean afterall, what possible reason could someone have for tickling ANYONE more than a few seconds? I mean, unless they wanted to have sex with them right?

And so, as someone who's seen M/M tickling all my life. Seen it in person as an adult. Participated in it, briefly because you know *. What can I say, sometimes there's just a foot that needs a tickle, and you don't have to worry about the person receiving it taking it the wrong way. Sometimes a guy likes knowing another guy care for him to.

I can't speak for everyone, but I will throw some things out there. When it comes to the nature of clips and stories, as others have mentioned, there's a definite sexual overtone to them. But within that, there are so many layers there. For one person, it might be arousing to simply see a bare female belly, because that fires up the tickle desire, and seeing that belly tickled may fufill the urge to some degree. Another, the bound soles of woman might do it. Personally, the bound soles of a man is...well yuck! LOL An exposed belly is... maybe not yuck, but maybe uck. I imagine it's similar for most who *. In and of themselves, men's body parts are just that, parts. But in terms of bondage and or tickling...eehhh, it's almost like seeing the preview for a movie you KNOW you don't want to see.

I guess the best way I can explain it is like this: I don't like going to dungeons/s&m clubs, because of all the transvestites frequenting a lot of them. Now I could care less about them and what they do. * The issue I have, is that I'll see high heels and stockings out of the corner of my eye, and get a little tingle of joy at the anticpation of seeing the fetching woman attached to them, only to find the woman is not THAT kinda woman (i.e. sans penis). I'm simply too conditioned to associating heels and nylons to women. I can't make my brain stop it. I see the legs, and think yippee...but then the let down. Mind you, MY letdown, has nothing to do with one's right for self-expression, so that's MY issue, not theirs. But it is what it is.

Anyway, I suppose, as far as those folks who constantly have something negative to say about M/M, I suspect they just don't have anything better to do, and certainly don't have enough things in their life that bring them enough joy. Those that suppose it can be nothing but homosexual * simply have not have enough experiences, exposure, or have such a small view of the world views and thoughts to the contrary are too large to enter it. And in regards to the M/M vs F/F - Is there any better definition than Jonmath's?

 

[Avenger314]

Terorizer: Well said, and it's good to hear from the homosexual contingent that you represent 😀

 

[steph]

Ya and a guy like Tero, who the rest of us was SO worried he was gay...NOT!

XOXO

Terorizer: Well said, and it's good to hear from the homosexual contingent that you represent 😀

 

[isabeau]

thanks for all the well-thought out responses..and Bella thanks for that article. makes sense to me..

 

[terorizer]

Ya and a guy like Tero, who the rest of us was SO worried he was gay...NOT!

XOXO

*hiding Judy Garland's greatest hits*

 

[drew70]

This is simply because we only need to jump in to protect those who require protection. In this culture, we don't need to protect heterosexuality. On this forum, we don't need to protect foot fetishists or F/F lovers. No one, to the best of my knowledge, gets regularly flamed or criticized for liking feet or F/F. People do, on the other hand, get flamed for enjoying M/M, or for being openly gay. And so the mods step in.

Interesting. I've yet to see anybody get flamed at the TMF for being gay. Moreover, I've seen more criticisms directed at F/F and M/F material than M/M. She's not ticklish. She's faking. They should have used stocks. They should have tickled her feet instead of her armpits....the list is endless.

Plenty of people don't care for M/M, and I haven't seen anyone posting here have a problem with that. They only get upset when those who dislike M/M insult others for enjoying it. You can have a right to your own opinion, and still show others the same courtesy, without denigrating something important to them.

I think you know as well as I, that simply expressing disapproval for something is enough for those who embrace it to perceive said disapproval as a personal insult. The M/M clip thread I mentioned was a perfect example. I say "was" because the entire discussion has been censored, which I suppose renders this discussion moot as well.

 

[Avenger314]

Interesting. I've yet to see anybody get flamed at the TMF for being gay. Moreover, I've seen more criticisms directed at F/F and M/F material than M/M. She's not ticklish. She's faking. They should have used stocks. They should have tickled her feet instead of her armpits....the list is endless.

On this area, I have to disagree with you partway, Drew. The reason is the type of criticism. What you describe as criticisms for m/f and f/f are true in that they appear. However, they're different from the type of criticisms originally mentioned in this thread: These refer to saying that the concept of m/m as a whole just plain shouldn't be there, not specific to the clip itself. The former are fine-tunings to people who prefer to see similar clips with modifications, the latter are from people who want to see the m/m clips gone altogether.

In terms of the actual number of flames directed at m/m clips in general, I've no data.

 

[Iggy pop]

First of all I would say almost all( if not all) tickle videos are made for men. They are geared towards the male fantasy. This is not to say that women do not watch them, but the primary audience are men. The fetish is primary a male fetish.

f/f is a common male fantasy and these videos are geared towards a male audience and not a lesbian audience. This is not to say that lesbians or even some straight women don't watch, and who knows maybe even there is a gay man that enjoys f/f for some reason, however, they are not the target audience.

m/m is geared to toward gay men and their fantasies. Again there may be some women that enjoy m/m but it is not the primary audience of m/m clips.

This is why f/f clips are not viewed as gay, but m/m clips are.

 

[isabeau]

First of all I would say almost all( if not all) tickle videos are made for men. They are geared towards the male fantasy. This is not to say that women do not watch them, but the primary audience are men. The fetish is primary a male fetish.

f/f is a common male fantasy and these videos are geared towards a male audience and not a lesbian audience. This is not to say that lesbians or even some straight women don't watch, and who knows maybe even there is a gay man that enjoys f/f for some reason, however, they are not the target audience.

m/m is geared to toward gay men and their fantasies. Again there may be some women that enjoy m/m but it is not the primary audience of m/m clips.

This is why f/f clips are not viewed as gay, but m/m clips are.

i am a female and i watch the clips..the free previews anyway..i watch them to place myself in the position of the lee..and that can be either f/f, m/f, m/m/or f/m...again i don't think it's fair to lump all men in one category..and again i am definitely not bashing the gay community at all...and dang it i won't say some of my best friends are gay either..that is so trite and cliche..but i think anyone should be allowed to view the clip of their choice without getting harrassed or immediately labeled as whatever..

 

[Vae]

in Europe, men greet each other with a hug i believe...especially relatives..but not here...tis a shame

Depends on the group of friends or relatives. It may be the social group I have down here, but the men, my fiance included, hug each other whenever they see each other (which is often). Now it's manly. It's a firm hug with some hard slapping on the shoulder. Or just the "grip" hug, when the guy is pulled to other with one pat. But my friends, who are almost all guys, hug all the time and I live in the southern USA states.

 

[kenny]

no way

if a guy ever tried to tickle me i would knock him out, and that being said before all of you want to call me homophobic have good freinds who when we see each other sometimes we give a very casual male hug but not that much 2 guys tickling each other is gay end of story thats why all the m/m tickle sites are freaking gay now two women doing to each other thats a beutiful thing, i also cant stand m/f tickling and i love to watch f/m tickling and i love being tickled by FEMALES!!!!!!! i am also not comfortable with m/m being on this forum

 

[isabeau]

if a guy ever tried to tickle me i would knock him out, and that being said before all of you want to call me homophobic have good freinds who when we see each other sometimes we give a very casual male hug but not that much 2 guys tickling each other is gay end of story thats why all the m/m tickle sites are freaking gay now two women doing to each other thats a beutiful thing, i also cant stand m/f tickling and i love to watch f/m tickling and i love being tickled by FEMALES!!!!!!! i am also not comfortable with m/m being on this forum

and that is ok...you are entitled to your opinion...but i still don't understand why you think it's a beautiful thing for two females to tickle each other, don't you think that me being a female would also find it beautiful to view two males tickling each other as well?

 

[KittenToes]

Replying mostly to Bella

Hi there!
This topic is really quite interesting. Bella, I'm not going to quote you directly, but would like to touch on a few of the points you made.

By the examples I gave in my post, I was trying to paint a picture of Mr. or Ms. Average, to whom the majority of marketing is directed. I would imagine that in a niche market such as tickling, there would be more women seeking it out than they would "regular" pornography. I also am aware that there are film companies run by and for women. In fact, after I posted I was betting you would reply, because I remembered you have your own company. The acquaintances I was thinking of when I made the post were all old "vanilla" friends. I think I also took care to point out that I could not generalize and was only speaking of things I myself had observed.

So for whatever reasons it may be, societal pressure and the like, I still think it is undeniable that there is a clear majority of male as opposed to female purchasers, even though in a niche market such as this the disparity will be less.

As for the standard romance novels- I never went for those, due to my own personal tendencies. You would have been much more likely, when I was in my teens, to find me somewhat guiltily reading and rereading the abduction and torture scene in my adventure novel, or flipping through a De Sade book.

I should also point out that if a lady is more visual and likes videos, more power to her. As far as I am concerned, what ever floats your boat, in any combination of gender, is fine as long as no one is harmed by it (well, harmed more than they want to be, that is). I've been in an F/F foot worship video myself, which was definitely produced with the straight male purchaser in mind. I think it's fair to say that a company that targets women will do things a bit differently (in fact, I think you already mentioned this).

As for M/M clips- I have no objection to them. Or to F/F. Or M/F, F/M, FFF/M etc etc. All I can say to those people flaming the M/M clip threads, is, you know what you will find when you click on it, so , if you don't like it, don't look at it. What was it my mama always told me..."If you have nothing nice to say, say nothing at all". Videos just don't do it for me- I guess I'm just far more of an exhibitionist than a voyeuse.

 

[isabeau]

Kittentoes thank you for that well thought-out post...it's how i feel basically

 

[drew70]

On this area, I have to disagree with you partway, Drew. The reason is the type of criticism. What you describe as criticisms for m/f and f/f are true in that they appear. However, they're different from the type of criticisms originally mentioned in this thread: These refer to saying that the concept of m/m as a whole just plain shouldn't be there, not specific to the clip itself. The former are fine-tunings to people who prefer to see similar clips with modifications, the latter are from people who want to see the m/m clips gone altogether.

I personally don't see a lot of difference if any. I think those who object to M/M tickling videos would be satisfied with those same videos but for a simple change of cast, from male to female. Simply another example of "fine tuning."

 

[Mephistopheles]

Possible explanation for this phenomenon is that quite a number of gay men are extremely open about their sexuality, resulting in gay parades featuring men with pink feathers up their arses. Ofcourse, people would immediately think that two women tickling eachother are lesbians if they have the stereotypical appearance (i.e.: short hair, masculine behaviour) but if that is not the case they will just assume it's just being playful amongst friends.

It is the difference in expression of sexual nature that could cause this; as people expect of women to perform open sexual acts in private, but also assuming gay men would just do it right out in the open.

Add to that a macho standard in our culture, and you have M/M tickling seen as gay and F/F tickling being normal.

 

[isabeau]

ok i'm replying to this thread but it's in response to a post Bagelfather made in the "why you don't like m/m clips" thread..but i didn't want to be accused of going off topic...where do you get off telling m/m fans that their material doesn't belong on this forum? and also what determines good gay versus bad gay? this forum should be for everyone and everyone's tastes...be it for m/m, f/m, f/f, m/f, or ffffff/m, mmmm/f, mmmmmm/m....to say that certain clips dont belong here is extremely opinionated and not very open considering this is a fetish forum..