TICKLING PIRACY - YOUR OPINION???

[jmsdarke]

I think its dying. The larger, higher quality producers are being pushed out. New ones are taking their place, but they do not have the same content quality and after quickly realizing that they wont make money from it they drop out also. In the end there will be lots of crappy material for us to choose from.

This industry has no hope of dying. It grows everyday.

My best month ever for my stores was December 2011 and my measure of growth isn't simply revenue, it is my numerically growing customer base. I get this same story from other producers as well.

The other reason that this industry has no hope of dying is that people who have viewed themselves as unique and odd for having fetishes are discovering that they are not alone and are finding a wealth of content from producers and amateurs to fills their smut needs while broadening their horizons.

After my evaluation of the tickling market and industry since 2001, it is my analysis that we can grow 10 to 20 times larger before plateauing to match the natural growth of population growth.

So guys and girls with cameras and bad light in their bedrooms don't offer a threat to anyone willing to treat their stores as business.

I welcome all who wish to try their hand and will continue to share articles on how to succeed at this.

JD

 

[kcantankerous]

This industry has no hope of dying. It grows everyday.

My best month ever for my stores was December 2011 and my measure of growth isn't simply revenue, it is my numerically growing customer base. I get this same story from other producers as well.

The other reason that this industry has no hope of dying is that people who have viewed themselves as unique and odd for having fetishes are discovering that they are not alone and are finding a wealth of content from producers and amateurs to fills their smut needs while broadening their horizons.

After my evaluation of the tickling market and industry since 2001, it is my analysis that we can grow 10 to 20 times larger before plateauing to match the natural growth of population growth.

So guys and girls with cameras and bad light in their bedrooms don't offer a threat to anyone willing to treat their stores as business.

I welcome all who wish to try their hand and will continue to share articles on how to succeed at this.

JD

Hello JD,

I think that you are correct. However, piracy is definitely stunting earning potential. I hope we can brainstorm a fix to the situation. I wonder how much it would cost to start up a clips4sale style server. I'm not a tech guy but I wonder how difficult it would be to create. If such a site were created more controls could be put in place, which would cost money initially, but I think there would be many producers who'd use it.

Thanks,
K

 

[BostonTickling]

I think the most important thing to remember is not to alienate your customers and/or potential customers. Be creative and find creative solutions to problems.

Amen. Has piracy effected my sales? Probably. But I deal with it. And am happy I still have the opportunity to make my videos. My customers are what keeps me afloat, and I will never, ever turn on them. Whether you're selling burgers, or selling tickling videos, its all about good putting out a good product and having good customer service. In my ever so humble opinion of course.

 

[kcantankerous]

Amen. Has piracy effected my sales? Probably. But I deal with it. And am happy I still have the opportunity to make my videos. My customers are what keeps me afloat, and I will never, ever turn on them. Whether you're selling burgers, or selling tickling videos, its all about good putting out a good product and having good customer service. In my ever so humble opinion of course.

Interesting

Thanks,
K

 

[The Last Laugh]

Wow, so being a producer of fetish material violates paypal rules?

Several years ago I used Paypal for selling my own videos, back when I was still only selling VHS tapes. One day Paypal closed my account without any warning whatsoever. The reason given was that my site was judged inappropriate. Anyone who's familiar with my work knows that what I do is very tame. Sure, it's meant to be adult material, but it's a far cry from standard porn, or even what many of the other tickling producers offer. And yet they shut me down anyway. Not only that, they froze the money I still had in my account (several hundred dollars) for a period of 6 months. Why so long? Why would they possibly need to freeze the money for so long, or at all for that matter? I can't imagine it's just to punish me. I can only assume they invested it to make more money, like they probably do with the money of all the vendors they let down in such a brutal way. Charming.

So yeah, Big Paypal doesn't like anything that's remotely adult-related. I can understand it to some extent. Paypal depends on the credit card companies, and credit card companies tend to dislike adult businesses because it's an industry that suffers from more fraud than others. It makes sense. What I do not appreciate in the least, however, are their policies and how they deal with vendors that they feel aren't worthy of their services. Don't want me as a customer? Fine. But they could have sent me a warning, giving me some time to find an alternative before closing my account. They could have frozen the money for a shorter amount of time, or not at all. But that's not how they work.

I admit Paypal is a very convenient and popular service. But they treat their customers like dirt.

 

[kcantankerous]

Several years ago I used Paypal for selling my own videos, back when I was still only selling VHS tapes. One day Paypal closed my account without any warning whatsoever. The reason given was that my site was judged inappropriate. Anyone who's familiar with my work knows that what I do is very tame. Sure, it's meant to be adult material, but it's a far cry from standard porn. And yet they shut me down anyway. Not only that, they froze the money I had accumulated for a period of 6 months. Why so long? Why would they possibly need to freeze the money for so long, or at all for that matter? To punish me? I can only assume they invested it to make more money, like they probably do with the money of all the vendors they let down. Charming.

So yeah, Big Paypal doesn't like anything that's remotely adult-related. I can understand it to some extent. Paypal depends on the credit card companies, and credit card companies tend to dislike adult businesses because it's an industry that suffers from more fraud than others. It makes sense. What I do not appreciate in the least, however, are their policies and how they deal with vendors that they feel aren't worthy of using Paypal. Don't want me as a customer? Fine. But they could have sent me a warning, giving me some time to find an alternative before closing my account. They could have frozen the money for a shorter amount of time, or not at all. But that's not how they work.

I admit Paypal is a very convenient and popular service. But they treat their customers like dirt.

I never realized it was like that. seems like some competition for Clips4sale is in order. Either that or figure out a way for them to take more detailed information from customers.

Thanks,
K

 

[randomguy85]

This is certainly an enlightening and humbling thread. I've always tended to be kinda quiet with my posts on this site, just hanging out in the shadows, but I feel it appropriate to give nod here.

I won't start by spitting out opinions or revolutionary ideas, but with an apology to the producers. I do admit that I have been guilty of pirating some content in the past. How do I defend myself? Well, I can start with the pity-party of being in a financially poor spot (artist in NYC, not exactly the most profitable career path) but that's just excuses. And it brings me more shame too in the fact that I also shoot and edit my own films (mainstream, not tickling or fetish related) so I know how much time, effort and money goes into it. Which is why I want to step forward and offer my humble apology to you all: Stryker, Darke, Tommy of TA, FTKL, Czech and all else that I couldn't think of off the top of my head.

Of course don't get me wrong, my library is composed mostly of purchased clips rather than ones pillaged from the sea of internets. (And those purchases usually cost me a meal or a setback in bill payments) but worth it... usually... (as noted on the previous page, there is the occasional burn of buying a clip that looks promising, and ending up with 5 seconds worth of tickling and 9 minutes and 55 seconds worth of malarky)

But I digress. I don't know how I could rightly make it up to those whose clips I have pirated other than to make an effort to buy more from their stores (once I can afford it) but again, I do give my sincere apology for weakness in a moment of greater weakness and desire. For whatever it may be worth...


J J

 

[TickleCuties]

This is certainly an enlightening and humbling thread. I've always tended to be kinda quiet with my posts on this site, just hanging out in the shadows, but I feel it appropriate to give nod here.

I won't start by spitting out opinions or revolutionary ideas, but with an apology to the producers. I do admit that I have been guilty of pirating some content in the past. How do I defend myself? Well, I can start with the pity-party of being in a financially poor spot (artist in NYC, not exactly the most profitable career path) but that's just excuses. And it brings me more shame too in the fact that I also shoot and edit my own films (mainstream, not tickling or fetish related) so I know how much time, effort and money goes into it. Which is why I want to step forward and offer my humble apology to you all: Stryker, Darke, Tommy of TA, FTKL, Czech and all else that I couldn't think of off the top of my head.

Of course don't get me wrong, my library is composed mostly of purchased clips rather than ones pillaged from the sea of internets. (And those purchases usually cost me a meal or a setback in bill payments) but worth it... usually... (as noted on the previous page, there is the occasional burn of buying a clip that looks promising, and ending up with 5 seconds worth of tickling and 9 minutes and 55 seconds worth of malarky)

But I digress. I don't know how I could rightly make it up to those whose clips I have pirated other than to make an effort to buy more from their stores (once I can afford it) but again, I do give my sincere apology for weakness in a moment of greater weakness and desire. For whatever it may be worth...


J J

I'm actually OK with that - there's always going to be some piracy of clips, it's the nature of the beast. But the specific case that FTKL, JD and I are referring to is just out of control, and the frequency and occurrence of piracy has gone from just something we all live with to a targeted, concentrated effort to encourage no purchasing of content at all, and it's absolutely impacted all of the producers, some more than others (see FTKL's comment about Body Sole Inc.). Given that you respect and understand the cost, time and energy that goes into producing a clip, you can obviously understand why it's frustrating to put all that work into producing, and then watching your material get shared for free all over the internet. Though I'm not in the same boat as some of the others in that I don't produce/sell clips for a living, I do leverage my clip sale revenue to continue funding new shoots - and that has already been impacted, as I've lightened my shoot load in order to better align my spend with my revenue. What people don't realize is that stealing clips (and that's what it is - if you download a clip without paying for it, it's theft, no matter how anyone chooses to sugar-coat it) will ultimately keep some producers from producing at all. Before I started producing, I've been buying and watching clips for almost 20 years now - since back in the good ol' days of the original FM Concepts site, Solefully Yours, Rock-Man, etc. - and each year, piracy of the material gets significantly worse. And it's not like producers are asking for an arm and a leg for clips - most can be purchased for under $10. The level of piracy has gotten to the point where we (as producers) needed to take more aggressive action to protect our content.

 

[kcantankerous]

This is certainly an enlightening and humbling thread. I've always tended to be kinda quiet with my posts on this site, just hanging out in the shadows, but I feel it appropriate to give nod here.

I won't start by spitting out opinions or revolutionary ideas, but with an apology to the producers. I do admit that I have been guilty of pirating some content in the past. How do I defend myself? Well, I can start with the pity-party of being in a financially poor spot (artist in NYC, not exactly the most profitable career path) but that's just excuses. And it brings me more shame too in the fact that I also shoot and edit my own films (mainstream, not tickling or fetish related) so I know how much time, effort and money goes into it. Which is why I want to step forward and offer my humble apology to you all: Stryker, Darke, Tommy of TA, FTKL, Czech and all else that I couldn't think of off the top of my head.

Of course don't get me wrong, my library is composed mostly of purchased clips rather than ones pillaged from the sea of internets. (And those purchases usually cost me a meal or a setback in bill payments) but worth it... usually... (as noted on the previous page, there is the occasional burn of buying a clip that looks promising, and ending up with 5 seconds worth of tickling and 9 minutes and 55 seconds worth of malarky)

But I digress. I don't know how I could rightly make it up to those whose clips I have pirated other than to make an effort to buy more from their stores (once I can afford it) but again, I do give my sincere apology for weakness in a moment of greater weakness and desire. For whatever it may be worth...


J J

That was pretty much how my apology went. I like how some people hide behind excuses to cover-up the fact that they had done something wrong. I can't really atone for what I've done in the past but to offer suggestions on how to avoid it. One day I'd like to either be a producer or invest in some of the ones here.

Thanks,
K

 

[kcantankerous]

I'm actually OK with that - there's always going to be some piracy of clips, it's the nature of the beast. But the specific case that FTKL, JD and I are referring to is just out of control, and the frequency and occurrence of piracy has gone from just something we all live with to a targeted, concentrated effort to encourage no purchasing of content at all, and it's absolutely impacted all of the producers, some more than others (see FTKL's comment about Body Sole Inc.). Given that you respect and understand the cost, time and energy that goes into producing a clip, you can obviously understand why it's frustrating to put all that work into producing, and then watching your material get shared for free all over the internet. Though I'm not in the same boat as some of the others in that I don't produce/sell clips for a living, I do leverage my clip sale revenue to continue funding new shoots - and that has already been impacted, as I've lightened my shoot load in order to better align my spend with my revenue. What people don't realize is that stealing clips (and that's what it is - if you download a clip without paying for it, it's theft, no matter how anyone chooses to sugar-coat it) will ultimately keep some producers from producing at all. Before I started producing, I've been buying and watching clips for almost 20 years now - since back in the good ol' days of the original FM Concepts site, Solefully Yours, Rock-Man, etc. - and each year, piracy of the material gets significantly worse. And it's not like producers are asking for an arm and a leg for clips - most can be purchased for under $10. The level of piracy has gotten to the point where we (as producers) needed to take more aggressive action to protect our content.

Well, I need to check out your stuff man. If this thread was never created I would have not known your site existed. Currently I will be purchasing some clips from Lily Haze but I plan on buying some from many of the producers here on a rotational basis spend oh $10 a month depending on income. When I get a job, wish me luck, I will increase the frequency.

I agree with your comment that downloading anything made for money without paying is stealing. That is precisely what I was guilty as charged of. I am moving to legit purchases now, but it doesn't change the fact that I did it in the first place. JD must be doing something different because I never saw any of his full length clips on daily or youtube (just the preview he puts out). Maybe he figured something out a system to avoid that. Sorry for calling you out JD (he is on my future purchases list as well).

Thanks,
K

 

[kcantankerous]

Interesting question Dr. Vollin

Thanks,
K

 

[TickleCuties]

This isn't strictly related to the thread topic, but I wonder if someone could clarify something I read here.

A few pages back, I read that a certain producer was able to stop charge backs. Now I've never charged back any of my clip purchases, but I don't see having that option taken away as a good thing. Maybe I've misunderstood, but would that mean that if somebody steals my info and uses it to buy a bunch of clips (cross fingers that never happens), the producers can say "Too bad for you - we're keeping the money" ? I can't imagine anyone thinking that's justified.

Chargebacks occur when the credit card is reported stolen, or the purchase itself is disputed as fraudulent. The credit card company contacts C4S, who then refunds the CC, and deducts the order total from your sales $.

 

[TickleCuties]

Well, I need to check out your stuff man. If this thread was never created I would have not known your site existed. Currently I will be purchasing some clips from Lily Haze but I plan on buying some from many of the producers here on a rotational basis spend oh $10 a month depending on income. When I get a job, wish me luck, I will increase the frequency.

I agree with your comment that downloading anything made for money without paying is stealing. That is precisely what I was guilty as charged of. I am moving to legit purchases now, but it doesn't change the fact that I did it in the first place. JD must be doing something different because I never saw any of his full length clips on daily or youtube (just the preview he puts out). Maybe he figured something out a system to avoid that. Sorry for calling you out JD (he is on my future purchases list as well).

Thanks,
K

Yeah, it's tough to even get noticed sometimes with so many people producing stuff. If you want to check a clip out, and are willing to give me some detailed feedback and critique (honest feedback - even constructive criticism), I'll put a second one on a share site for you in return for the support.

 

[randomguy85]

Yeah, it's tough to even get noticed sometimes with so many people producing stuff. If you want to check a clip out, and are willing to give me some detailed feedback and critique (honest feedback - even constructive criticism), I'll put a second one on a share site for you in return for the support.

I'm not looking for a freebee, but I've been eyeing your site and if you would like feedback, I'd be happy to give it, but I apologize in advance if it strays towards technical film making aspects.

J J

 

[TickleCuties]

I'm not looking for a freebee, but I've been eyeing your site and if you would like feedback, I'd be happy to give it, but I apologize in advance if it strays towards technical film making aspects.

J J

If the input is valuable and helps me produce better content, I'm always glad to show my appreciation.

 

[kcantankerous]

Yeah, it's tough to even get noticed sometimes with so many people producing stuff. If you want to check a clip out, and are willing to give me some detailed feedback and critique (honest feedback - even constructive criticism), I'll put a second one on a share site for you in return for the support.

Without a doubt I would be glad to help out. Admittedly, I like entrepreneurship and I like tickling which has gotten me interested in the business aspects of clip making. Let me know how you want to proceed if your still interested. I have a purchase order (Lily Haze this month) for the time being since I am low on funds. However, I will purchase from you if nothing else because I want to support you, plus your cool as hell. The information you've provided was very valuable thus far, I also appreciate your input in the tax thread as well. I hope to put what I've learned to good use and help y'all in the process.

Thanks,
K

 

[TJDoom]

I watched the music industry dig its claws into their old ways and the entire landscape changed despite them. Set them back years. They conditioned people into thinking every album in the world was worth $20 a pop. They thought it would always be that way. People would blindly buy. Now that's a larger and broader thing, but it provides perspective on modern illegal media activity. I admit to my fair share of downloading and technically illegal behavior in my time. At the same time I don't at all feel entitled to everything and I don't believe in Robin Hood crusades against artists or producers trying to protect/enjoy themselves. I don't really think in terms of this subject as "right" and "wrong" except when it comes to false charges and identity theft. There is a lot of gray area.

You know exactly what you're getting when you buy a box of your favorite cereal; not so with this. Even with previews and good intentions sometimes, a producer might put the footage that hooks you in it to hide the fact that the rest of the clip doesn't measure up to that promise. And you know what? I don't fault that. There's a bottom line and they don't know what they're going to get day to day. What it comes down to is that while a person like me might be considered morally compromised by some, I'm able to sleep at night because I'm also the guy who supports when I find something I like. I buy merchandise/music from little known musicians. I spread the word. If I find a producer/set of clips that catches my attention, I've bought from them and probably will in the future. Definitely following what they do because I know they're capable of what I look for. Sometimes I take a shot on an unknown just for the hell of it. Sometimes it burns me, sometimes I hit the jackpot. But I'm active and passionate about what they do and I back them. And the notion that they should be brought down a peg for greed is ridiculous.

 

[FLBowler]

it's wrong and depressing, but sadly it exosts in the world, all we can do is try to reveal the realism of how wrong and how bad the effects are

 

[kcantankerous]

I watched the music industry dig its claws into their old ways and the entire landscape changed despite them. Set them back years. They conditioned people into thinking every album in the world was worth $20 a pop. They thought it would always be that way. People would blindly buy. Now that's a larger and broader thing, but it provides perspective on modern illegal media activity. I admit to my fair share of downloading and technically illegal behavior in my time. At the same time I don't at all feel entitled to everything and I don't believe in Robin Hood crusades against artists or producers trying to protect/enjoy themselves. I don't really think in terms of this subject as "right" and "wrong" except when it comes to false charges and identity theft. There is a lot of gray area.

You know exactly what you're getting when you buy a box of your favorite cereal; not so with this. Even with previews and good intentions sometimes, a producer might put the footage that hooks you in it to hide the fact that the rest of the clip doesn't measure up to that promise. And you know what? I don't fault that. There's a bottom line and they don't know what they're going to get day to day. What it comes down to is that while a person like me might be considered morally compromised by some, I'm able to sleep at night because I'm also the guy who supports when I find something I like. I buy merchandise/music from little known musicians. I spread the word. If I find a producer/set of clips that catches my attention, I've bought from them and probably will in the future. Definitely following what they do because I know they're capable of what I look for. Sometimes I take a shot on an unknown just for the hell of it. Sometimes it burns me, sometimes I hit the jackpot. But I'm active and passionate about what they do and I back them. And the notion that they should be brought down a peg for greed is ridiculous.

That is why I advocate what Turtleboy over at UKtickling (one of these days I'll get the order of words right). He has the preview clip and then shows screen shots at various stages of the clip. That way you can see whether nylons eventually come off, will the tops come off, etc. For example, I do not enjoy screaming and I would have bought a ton of Angela clips just going of the screenshots because she is f***ing gorgeous. Anyways, I realized via the previews that she screams (she clearly is extremely ticklish lol) a lot and I moved on.

Let me stress that overall I think she's hot, not knocking that. It's the old adage different strokes for different folks. UKtickling is definitely on the list of future purchases though.

This does not excuse piracy obviously, but it is a suggestion to avoid the problem TJDOOM brought up.

Thanks,
K

 

[ZenTickling]

*Removed Posted PM*

Hari

 

[-Hari-]

*Removed Posted PM*

Hari

How lovely, its amazing how defensive people get when caught doing something wrong.

 

[Comfort Eagle]

*Removed Posted PM*

Hari

I'm not a thief because other people do it too!

 

[-Hari-]

But isn't posting PMs, whatever they might say, frowned on here?

A very valid point, Where is my head today.

Indeed, publicly posting someone's private message isn't really appropriate, especially calling out the username also.

Alterations made.

Hari

 

[ZenTickling]

A very valid point, Where is my head today.

Indeed, publicly posting someone's private message isn't really appropriate, especially calling out the username also.

Alterations made.

Hari

My apologies. I get angry when a member of this community feels that they are entitled to all the free clips they can download. In this instance the clips that were downloaded were purchased with a stolen credit card, hurting not only me but some random individual.

 

[turtleboy]

My apologies. I get angry when a member of this community feels that they are entitled to all the free clips they can download. In this instance the clips that were downloaded were purchased with a stolen credit card, hurting not only me but some random individual.

I understand how you feel on this one. I have to say it is the credit card fraud issue that winds me up far more than the actual piracy itself (although they are more often than not, related) It is infuriating to work hard for sales on C4S only to then have a significant amount lifted from your total due to chargebacks. In my experience, they are always large orders - so far this month I have had 27 clips charged back! As Zen says, not only do we lose out through the piracy and the money being taken back, but some member of the public has had to figure out why money has been charged to their credit card in the first place!