Tickling should be porn free

[Haltickling]

... and then there is also the question of art. When does nudity become pornographic? Does not some art arouse us, too? Wasn't art the pornography of old times? Can porn videos be artistic as well? Should art become censored, and if yes, at what point?

The problem is clear: Pornography doesn't have a clear definition, it depends on the current society standards. Therefore, any definition of porn can be used as an excuse for censoring art, and pornography (well, not everything of it) can use the excuse "artistic" to avoid censorship.

I dont't think that the internet would have reached its present popularity without porn. Billions of dollars get turned over by porn, so obviously there is a demand for it. And as long as there is demand, the market will try to satisfy it, forbidden or not (see prohibition).

And the customers consume both, nude and fully clothed tickling, and all stages inbetween, so the market produces both. As Francois said: Isn't it good to have a choice? 😎

 

[Dr. Bill Kobb]

Nude or not, tickling or no tickling, I just wish they'd leave the sex outta my porn. I hate that sex porn!😡

 

[TickledToDeath]

A tickle production should be just that......Tickling! Porn is just that....Porn. You can mix some tickling in with a Porn flick but to add porn to a tickle flick without stating that porn is part of it is misleading and somewhat unacceptable.
While yes, sex and tickling can be intertwined, it should be made chrystal evident in its' advertising as someone who purchases a tickle vid wants just that........TICKLING! Not a porn flick.


TTD

Just a thought

 

[ticklebutton]

I hate the word

"should".

🙄

 

[kis123]

I have been reading this post for quite awhile wondering how to respond to it. I have opinions on both viewpoints (to porn or not to porn with tickling).

Some of the vids that I have seen over the last several months are pretty graphic, some even gross and disgusting. My option was to find other vids that were to my taste and liking.

Some of the vids grossed me out at first, but as they proceeded, I became fascinated. I'm relatively new to the tickling scene and have just started purchasing vids. I found the MTP Rebecca vids extrodinary. I never thought that a person could be tickled that way in that position. I wasn't crazy about looking at her bare rear end for several minutes, but her responses to the tickling intrigued me in a way I never knew possible. It gave me ideas as to what I may want to try on someone, or what I would like to have someone do to me. Simply put, it was pretty cool overall.

I'm not into vibrators or handjobs or some of the oral stuff I've seen in a lot of vids. I can definitely do without that stuff. That to me is straight porn, and I do not find it interesting. But it is obvious that many others do enjoy watching it. The Internet is supposed to be free to express. That is what happens when others have the same rights to express as I do.

When I see something I do not like online, I simply go to another site and find what I feel comfortable with. Maybe others should do the same.

As usual, my opinion and fifty cents may buy a cup of coffee in today's economy😀

 

[starfires]

Re: Re: Nudity != Pornography

And as I recall, the Supreme Court has said in the past that nudity alone doesn't qualify as profanity, or obscenity, (and thus, pornography). No word on if you add tickling to it.

Correct. IIRC, in order to qualify, a "lascivous display of genitals" or other lewd behavior must be involved.

 

[starfires]

porn != evil

You guys are arguing the wrong point. The relevant issue is not whether tickling videos are porn. It's whether watching tickling videos is morally wrong.

Those of you who dislike nudity in your tickling, ask yourselves this question: Is it because nudity truly detracts from my viewing pleasure, or is it because afterwards I want to be able look at myself in the mirror and say, "I have not watched porn today"?

If it's the former, more power to you. If it's the latter, let's stop and think about this. Whatever you think "porn" is, what are the reasons you don't want to see it? Do the same reasons apply to tickling, or don't they?

Let me illustrate with a metaphor: consider a person philosophically opposed to owning weapons, who keeps a large kitchen knife under his pillow against the possibility of being attacked at night. A kitchen knife is not a weapon, so his conscience is clear. But he is opposed to weapons because they are used to kill and maim, *not* because they are called "weapons". Yet whatever the nominal function of the object under his pillow, what can he possibly intend to do with it but kill or maim his attacker?
If someone were to suggest to him that the knife under his pillow is a weapon, there are three major possibilities, in order of likelihood:
(1) He could argue vehemently that it is not a weapon (Come on, it's a kitchen knife! If that's a weapon, what about the pick axe in my backyard? What about my chainsaw, barbells, frying pans? You know, if you try real hard, you could probably kill somebody with a book; does that mean I have to get rid of the War and Peace, too?),
(2) He could admit that he has acted against his philosophy, and either put the knife back in the kitchen or continue to live a hypocrite,
(3) He could use this as an opportunity to examine his principles, and realize that he is not actually opposed to using a weapon in self-defense. This is the most difficult path, because of the possibility that all his anti-weapons friends will turn away from him, thinking "Next thing we know, he will upgrade his "purely defensive" arsenal to an AK-47 with a laser sight and a silencer."

Back to the tickling:

We live in a largely puritan society (except maybe some Europeans among us). The society says: "Sex is bad. Sex is sinful. Good citizens do not have sex, nor want sex, nor watch sex. Nor watch naked people, for that matter, even if they are doing nothing remotely sexual." Given that social conditioning, it's very easy to think, "Tickling can't be porn, otherwise how am I better than those freaks that jerk off to the playboy channel until they bleed? Oh, I know: there's no naked people in my tickling!" It's not that simple. I could go into details about the actual reasons behind the anti-porn pressure, but the more devout members might burn me at the stake. Besides, that topic is more suited to the general forum.

 

[SillyMan]

I must agree with the original post: porn should be left out of the tickling videos. Those who like porn can get it anywhere else.

 

[Haltickling]

Re: porn != evil

I could go into details about the actual reasons behind the anti-porn pressure, but the more devout members might burn me at the stake. Besides, that topic is more suited to the general forum.

Please do, starfires! I'd certainly be interested to discuss this, as it's really a hot topic (not meant as a joke!) 😎

 

[TickledToDeath]

Tickling itself is NOT porn. Tickle videos alone is NOT porn. Watching tickle videos is NOT morally wrong or wrong in any way for that matter.
HOWever, in my opinion, if you add sexual stimulation of the genitals, blow/hand jobs, then it crosses into the area of porn depending on the context or intent. For instance, if the hand job is intended to cause the ticklee to.....orgasm therefore making the lee 10 times more ticklish so the tickling becomes that much more intense, not porn. HOWever, if it is to prelude sex of sorts, one may take it as pornographic.
Tis a gray area altogether. If a tickle video has more hand jobbing and vibrator usage than tickling, then it is not a tickle vid.

AS to morality, that is of personal opinion of an individual or group and should stay right there.

TTD

 

[SlaverTickler]

Variaty is the Spice Of Life...

I think that there should be all types of levels of coice to Tickle Vidoes. Who is anybody to say No Nudity, No Oral Sex, No Gags or bondaage. Who the hell has the right to censore my fetish, I can't even beleave that in an american bassed sight this conversation is even happening. People should do what there comfortable with. If Jena Jameson is cool with sucking dick on Camera then let her. If Elke Jenson doesn't mined going topless for a tickling video then let her. If you don't like it dont F.N. buy it.

 

[TickledToDeath]

Re: Variaty is the Spice Of Life...

I think that there should be all types of levels of coice to Tickle Vidoes. Who is anybody to say No Nudity, No Oral Sex, No Gags or bondaage. Who the hell has the right to censore my fetish, I can't even beleave that in an american bassed sight this conversation is even happening. People should do what there comfortable with. If Jena Jamesong is cool with sucking dick on Camera then let her. If Elke Jenson doesn't mined going topless for a tickling video then let her. If you don't like it dont F.N. buy it.

Fine points made ST HOWever, I think the question raised is not whether or not there is sexual contact or actions in tickle vids but the advertisement of tickling and when purchased, it is found that there is more sex and porn-ish material than tickling.
To have a little of everything is fine so long as it is know ahead of time so the buyer/viewer knows what he/she is getting before hand.
Has nothing to do with censorship in my opinion just knowing what one is getting.

TTD

 

[UnclStevel]

The answer...

Tickling itself is NOT porn. Tickle videos alone is NOT porn. QUOTE]

U.S. Title 18 section 2257 states that anything <b>marketed</b> as pornographic can be considered pornography.

UncleSteve
🙂

 

[Dr. Bill Kobb]

So, basically anything that sez adults only is porn? Not trying to be a smart-arse. Genuinely 😕

 

[UnclStevel]

So, basically anything that sez adults only is porn? Not trying to be a smart-arse. Genuinely

Not necessarily, but yes, what you said is true. For example, there have been folks here in the past who have brought up the idea of tickling minors. Most debates here end up with some people saying it shouldn't be considered porn, others claim it is, everyone has a lawyer in the family, everyone is right, everyone spills their opinion etc....

From a U.S. perspective it is illegal. Period. Why? Because if this hypothetical site existed it would be <b>marketing</b> under-age tickling as porn. Anyone who questions this is welcome to put up a tickling pay site with minors on it, and write John Ashcroft with the address so he can give his opinion. The law covers all bases.

Simply, if it involves "sex acts," <b>OR</b> is marketed as porn, it is porn in the eyes of US law. Class adjourned.

hehe
Steve

 

[Dr. Bill Kobb]

Damn. So Tickleflix.com doesn't feature "hot young ticklish girls"? Sorry, couldn't resist. Kiddie porn is tragic, but you know what? I've never ever seen the slightest hint of it. Is it out there? I'm sure, but I've been trading tapes of weird-assed crap for years and I've never seen child-porn(nor do I care to). That being said, I'd just like to add, for the record, "Fuck John Ashcroft!". That is the first and probably only time you will see that level of verbiage from me, but I mean it most sincerely.

 

[drew70]

Originally posted by starfires

Those of you who dislike nudity in your tickling, ask yourselves this question: Is it because nudity truly detracts from my viewing pleasure, or is it because afterwards I want to be able look at myself in the mirror and say, "I have not watched porn today"?

Some of the first and a lot of the second. Nudity doesn't add anything to the tickling event (for me), and actually limits the participants in the places tickling can occur. I'm all about bringing tickling out of the BDSM dungeons and into the corporate offices, the schools, the churches, and institutions of everyday life. That can't happen if tickling is linked with nudity and obsenity.

And yes, I do harbor a certain disgust toward hardcore porn. I can't help but associate it with sleazy adult bookstores; skin flicks viewed in the back room where the floor is crusty with dried semen; peep shows on 42nd Street where one ought to wear gloves and a surgical mask before entering; blowjobs in some rat and cockroach infested subway station bathroom;....need I go on?

Tickling, on the other hand, is something I associate with a happy childhood, displays of genuine affection, and basically the most profound relationship one person can have with another. Tickling is good and wholesome, in my opinion. While it can add a lot to a bedroom scene, I'd hate to see it limited to such.

 

[SillyMan]

Nudity doesn't add anything to the tickling event (for me),.... I'm all about bringing tickling out of the BDSM dungeons and into the corporate offices, the schools, the churches, and institutions of everyday life. That can't happen if tickling is linked with nudity and obsenity.

And yes, I do harbor a certain disgust toward hardcore porn...

Tickling, on the other hand, is something I associate with a happy childhood, displays of genuine affection, and basically the most profound relationship one person can have with another. Tickling is good and wholesome, in my opinion. While it can add a lot to a bedroom scene, I'd hate to see it limited to such.

I agree with you in every word you said, and you have my sympathy Drew70.

 

[Dr. Bill Kobb]

Hmm. So, you associate tickling with happy children and would like to see it in schools. Do go on...please🙄

 

[drew70]

Hmm. So, you associate tickling with happy children and would like to see it in schools. Do go on...please🙄

Yes, I believe I was quite clear about that. What part did you not understand? If you have an objection perhaps you'll share it with us whenever you feel up to it.

 

[kis123]

Previously posted:

"Tickling, on the other hand, is something I associate with a happy childhood, displays of genuine affection, and basically the most profound relationship one person can have with another. Tickling is good and wholesome, in my opinion. While it can add a lot to a bedroom scene, I'd hate to see it limited to such."

I couldn't agree more! Unfortunately, it's unlikely to happen with the issue of child molestation and the restrictions teachers and adults have with the children these days. There was a time that a touch, hug, or quick tickle from a teacher would make a kid's day. Now, everyone's afraid to touch anymore. Parents are working like crazy just to keep their families going, and forget the importance of affectionately touching their kids, which includes tickling. Most of our first tickling experiences came at home, usually from our parents. Maybe that's why some of these kids are so angry all of the time. They're still craving that affection we were born to receive.

That and fifty cents may buy a cup of coffee in today's economy, folks!😛

 

[Dr. Bill Kobb]

Sure, I'll bite

I take issue with your ridiculously outmoded views of what is and isn't considered pornography, vs. your seemingly forward-thinking philosophy of tickling. Our societies openness about sexuality is what makes us great compared to the backasswards Muslims. No lie. What used to be percieved as degradation of the female is in fact empowerment. The things you equate with porn are no more. "Porn" is now all about women making their way in the world on their terms.
Meanwhile, you have this outlandish notion that tickling will make everyone happy. If you attempt to introduce tickling into schools, churches and the like, you'll only be inviting disaster. Alotta people don't care to be tickled. What you're talking about is nothing less than aggravated assault. The women in XXX videos are doing so of their own volition, and reaping rich rewards. You, meanwhile, seem to be striving for is some ridiculous patchuoli-scented notion of what will make people laugh and smile, regardless of whether they're truly enjoying themselves, or not. Go on and tickle everybody you see today, hippy, and bill me for the broken nose you'll undoubtedly recieve for your efforts.

 

[drew70]

Porn on the Kobb

Hey, not bad, Dr Kobb. In a single post you've demonstrated sexism, cultural intolerance, and bullheaded extremism. High five there, buddy!

Originally posted by Dr. Bill Kobb

Our societies openness about sexuality is what makes us great compared to the backasswards Muslims.

So, I guess if a Muslim asks you what's great about the USA, you'd tell him/her that it is "our society's openness about sexuality?" Of course that's assuming that you would even dain to speak with a Muslim. Doc, our society is open to everything EXCEPT sex. The Europeans are way more sexually mature than we are. If we really were open and mature about sex, the Monica Lewinski incident would never have hit the headlines. It would have been no big deal. But because sex is so taboo in America, it was front page news. Every sex "scandal" that airs on Channel Nine News is further proof of the folly of such conjecture.

What used to be percieved as degradation of the female is in fact empowerment. The things you equate with porn are no more. "Porn" is now all about women making their way in the world on their terms.

This sounds like a pimp's pep talk to his squad of streetwalkers. It's wrong on so many levels, I don't know where to begin. Women don't need to take their clothes off to achieve power. Women have proven that they are as intelligent, able-bodied, and financially independent as men are. Exactly how does posing nude or sucking cock in a video "empower" a woman? In today's business world, such experience would empower a woman for sexual harrassment at best.

Meanwhile, you have this outlandish notion that tickling will make everyone happy.

No, I have this outlandish notion that tickling can be used as an anti-depressant from which many people could benefit. If marketed carefully, such therapy could gain enormous popularity. Drew Barrymore is already doing it. Come on, Kobby, where's that "openness" you're so proud of? Or does that only apply to pornography and prostitution?

If you attempt to introduce tickling into schools, churches and the like, you'll only be inviting disaster. Alotta people don't care to be tickled. What you're talking about is nothing less than aggravated assault.

Not at all. What I'm talking about is totally consensual, in which the participants are giving and receiving tickling of their own free will. In case it hasn't occurred to you, there are other methods of convincing folks besides assault. 🙄 A key strategy would be to present tickling in a positive light in today's media and entertainment. The process would be a very gradual one, nothing so blunt and unthinking as the method you suggest.

The women in XXX videos are doing so of their own volition, and reaping rich rewards.

Sure, like AIDS, Herpes, and a bottle of Drano down their throats when they decide they want out.

You, meanwhile, seem to be striving for is some ridiculous patchuoli-scented notion of what will make people laugh and smile, regardless of whether they're truly enjoying themselves, or not.Go on and tickle everybody you see today, hippy, and bill me for the broken nose you'll undoubtedly recieve for your efforts.

And the award for best Archie Bunker impersonation goes to...Dr Bill Kobb! 🙄 Man, you've got some serious issues. When one man's dream of a world with more everyday tickling could upset to the point of such vehemence, it's time to take a horse sized chill pill. I can only hope that none of your patients ever decide to share a dream with you.

 

[BellaRisa]

Howdy, being good friends and/or an aquaintance of several in the adult indusrty and having worked with them a bit,I have a few thoughts:

I guess if a Muslim asks you what's great about the USA, you'd tell him/her that it is "our society's openness about sexuality?" Of course that's assuming that you would even dain to speak with a Muslim. Doc, our society is open to everything EXCEPT sex. The Europeans are way more sexually mature than we are. If we really were open and mature about sex, the Monica Lewinski incident would never have hit the headlines. It would have been no big deal.

If I met Muslims who shared my kink interests, then yes I would certainly tell them that *one* of the great things about my country is our sexual openness. There are many places in this world where there's no way in hell a woman could start her own adult video company. I did it, with no issues. We're definitely behind the Europeans but we're ahead of many other regions; I don't gotta wear dark coverings over my body to walk down the street, for instance. As for Monica Lewinski, frankly I believe that had more to do with the adultery aspect. The oral sex was certainly made a lot of, but had it been his wife it wouldn't have made the papers (maybe the tabloids but that's what they're for 😛 ) We still have a ways to go, but we have a LOT of sexual freedom in America compared to A) other places and B) how it was just a few decades ago.

Exactly how does posing nude or sucking cock in a video "empower" a woman?

I can see Dr. Kobb's point. A woman who wants to make her living using her body can do so if she pleases. No one is forcing her to, and more importantly, no one is telling her that she can't. She can work hard to make her body the best it can be, admired by those in her audience, and do very well for herself on her own terms. That can be VERY empowering and make a woman very proud of herself; feeling good about using one's skills as a sexual performer to earn a living may be a very foreign concept to many, but I understand it.

The women in XXX videos are doing so of their own volition, and reaping rich rewards.

Sure, like AIDS, Herpes, and a bottle of Drano down their throats when they decide they want out.

Um, There are indeed women (and men) in the adult industry that have serious issues, but that's in ANY industry. Medical students have high suicide and depression rates as well. And I have yet to hear that adult performers suffer from more STD's; if you have a link to the article I'd like to read it. (serious on that, not saying you're wrong). Anyone having lots of *unprotected* sex is at risk, whethere there's a camera on or not. And the women DO make good money if they become well known. Plus, there's an interesting sense of comraderie in that community...the adult stars I've known are pretty cool and together ladies (and gentlemen).


On the part about tickling as therapy and such...it's never been limited to the bedroom; in fact it took some people years to get it there. Tickling *is* going on in churches and schools and other places, where appropriate My 6 yr old is in Kindergarten and I see tickling all the time between children, same as when I was her age. The adults *do* tend to keep their hands to themselves in that regard, but there's plenty of other types of affection given out. And that makes more sense to me. Personally I'd have been SO creeped out if random teachers or other adults tickled me as a child, that kinda touching was reserved for the grownups in my family. Tickling is special for most people, even non-ticklephiles; it's not to be shared with just anyone. Furthermore, while more mainstream activity would be nice, I feel that if it's everywhere all the time it will lose a certain quality, a uniqueness that many of us treasure.

My two cents, YMMV.

Bella

 

[SlaverTickler]

Porn is bad huh...

Hay Drew, you are enttitled to your opinion, but an educated oppinion is the only one I'm interested. It's true that there have been women that were exploited byt the pornindatstry, there have also been many who have done quite well. Jena Jameson of course hase made the best of her opprotunities, everything from her videos to adult toys, an Autobiographie, all the way down the line to her own brand of (Jena)jeans. Nina Hartly and others have also done quite well. Sadly this is rare, and it is because of people like you that this is the case. If you ran a buisness, and a woman came in and had great scolastic training, but honestly told you she'd earnd her money for School either stripping or doing porn for 4 years you wouldn't hire her. There for she would have to go back to the ownly other thing she knows, adult entertainment. Now you can call her a slut all over again, even though (in this example) you would be the reason why she is there again. I swear women are, at times, there own worst enamy.

Tickling for me is a fetish, that means it causing a sexual reaction in me when I see it or am involved in it. This site/forum is for people who share this fetish. Tickling a kid is fine if its a quick two secounds, but to include storries or video regarding this topic on this site would be a form of (perhapes unintended) Kiddie-Porn.

First we take away Adult entertainment, then what, whe run the Jew into the Ovens and put the chains back on Black people. You have the right to say you don't like porn, you have the choice not to watch it. You do not, however, have the right to tell other they shouldn't have access to watch consentting adults haveing sexing on video. God bless Hugh Heffner, King of Kings, and a god among publishers.