Whoop that kid's ass, dammit! (long read and rant)

[slacker2114]

The following is a true story. Only the names have been changed blah blah blah....

So my brother ("Phil") and I are over at a friend's ("Chuck") house yesterday hanging out. Chuck's girlfriend (I want to call her "bitch" because that's exactly what she is, but I'll take the high road and call her "Shannon") comes home from work and confronts my brother with her 3-year old's broken hockey stick, asking if Phil broke it. He said yes and she immediately goes to "well, you owe him a new one". Keep in mind, it's not a real hockey stick, just a kid's toy.

Anyway, my brother says he doesn't owe them because the reason he broke it is because the kid hit my brother in the nuts with the stick 3 times with the stick, being told to knock it off each time before my brother finally grabbed it and broke it in half. So Chuck chimes in and says that's bullshit because that's no reason to break the stick to which my brother replies "would you rather have had me knock your kid across the room for it?"

So now I get involved and side with my brother, saying I don't see why Phil would need to buy a new one considering what the kid was using it for. Chuck responds with "so then if I come to your house and your kid fucks with me, I can just kick your tv screen in." I say bullshit because my kid wouldn't be using my tv to smack you in the balls. Needless to say, it became a very awkward and heated discussion.

Chuck has been one of my best friend's for 17+ years, so arguments, while rare are not unheard of. And my brother is the type of guy who is not going to smack a kid, no matter what. But my question is...who's right in this matter? I side with my brother on this one. Keep in mind, this 3-year old is violent. Not high-strung, not rammy, not spirited. I'm talking constantly picking up objects/toys/anything he can get his hands on and hitting people in the face/balls/tits/whatever with said instrument. And the parents turn a blind eye every time, with the exception of when he does it to one of them. Then he gets told about it. And when I say told, I mean "you shouldn't do that. That's not nice" which does abso-fucking-lutely nothing.

Now I'm not saying beat the kid into a bloody smear on the wall. But damn, crack that kid's ass, make him feel it and let him know he's fucking up. I truly think that's one of the biggest problems with parents nowadays: too scared to discipline the brats because of either laziness or worried their kid may not like them as much or whatever. That kid hit me in the face once after I warned him not to do it. I cracked his ass, right in front of his parents and made him sit on the couch and not get up until I said he could. He tried his little tactics that he does to his mom and dad of just blatant defiance and getting back up, to which I made him sit his ass back down again immediately.

And guess what? The kid doesn't hate me, he's not afraid of me and he no longer tries that shit with me either. He loves his Uncle Brent, is always happy to see me and cries when I leave. But he quickly learned what happens when he does that shit to me and doesn't want a repeat. Amazing how that works, isn't it?

Regardless, what do you think about the situation? Is my brother in the right? Is Chuck and Shannon rightfully outraged over this? And how would you have handled this? And please, let's keep this civil and not turn it into a verbal brawl about abuse and who's got the better kids.

 

[The Fallen Angel]

I gotta agree with you on this one, seems they defenitly need to discipline the kid way more than they do. Seems like you said a good crack to the ass every once in awhile would do it

 

[venray]

I would buy him a new stick in the hope that he will smack his father in the nuts. I would then tell my friends that i will not be coming over there nor is their child allowed anywhere near me from that point on as I will not take physical abuse from an uncontrolled freak of nature...

But that's just me....

If they will not do anything to control their child then i would make sure I never see the child....

 

[Ghris]

Definitely side with your brother - he shouldn't have had to put up with that.

Where was the kid attacking him, though? The kid's house, outside, your house? That could change everything... if it was the kid's house, your brother could have simply left.

 

[kered]

I really don't think the location where this happened is really the issue. The issue is that this kid seems to not on the right path learning social skills. A couple good taps on the butt is just about all a child that ages understands. When they want something it is right now and they have no reguard for anything but what they want. Talking to then like an adult won't work because they simply are not adults. Spanking is not fun for either parties either, but it gives the child something to remind them when they hear the word no. I'm with Slacker on this one. When my nieces were growing up I lit there little butts on fire more than once when needed. Believe it or not it does teach them respect for others and now being the favorite uncle they have me watch their kids because I like to have fun but won't put up with any bad behavior. Now the newer generation is learning Uncle Kered don't play around after he says no.

 

[Redmage]

1) It's ridiculous to suppose that the only choices were between breaking a 3 yr old boy's toy and "knocking him across the room." I suggest a third option: take the hockey stick away from the big, bad toddler so he can't hit you with it any more.

Your brother owes the kid a hockey stick. In theory, he's supposed to be more mature than a 3 yr old.

2) I don't oppose corporal punishment in principle, but in this case it would be pointless. At that age, it's useful only for dealing with immediate problems - the child can't form cause and effect associations after any period of time has passed, and has no concept of morality.

For a 3 yr old, spanking is justified only as a deterrent from something that would cause the child considerably more harm than the spanking will - such as playing around with paperclips and electrical sockets. It's not justified to "protect" supposedly adult men, who have the ability to protect themselves perfectly well from anything a child that age could possibly do to them.

 

[vladtickleman22]

Buy the kid a new stick and walk away. Let the kid smack his father in the balls with it or his mother in the boob.

 

[BlackestLily]

As far as I know, 3 year olds don't have the capacity for empathy. So he may not understand play versus no. That is when you take the stick away and stand in his face and give a strong NO. WE DO NOT DO THIS. My friend has a son this age, and this is effective. I don't condone spanking.

 

[RobAce]

I would buy the kid a new stick.

When my kids have hit people over the years with things, I simply took them away, put it on top of the fridge or put it in my room, and confiscated it from them for 2 days.

They still didn't have, no one broke anything and the problem was resolved, because at least with my kids, taking something away they know they could have had and is still in the house is worse than simply breaking it.

That's my opinion though.

Rob

 

[Deleted member 66627]

My son's only 2 and change and I've cracked him on the ass a few times.

He's not going to grow up to be a snot nosed punk kid who has no respect for people or their things. I'm not saying that folks who don't discipline their kids like I do have kids like that.

I think breaking the toy was a touch extreme. However, the parents need to figure out a new outlet for punishment for the child if the child is clearly not getting it.

I would have to say that in a round-about way, both parties were justified in their feelings.

 

[GodlessTickler]

I mostly think Red awnsered this question as I would have, but Ill add a few points
I don't oppose corpral punishment on principle, but my research has shown VERY few possitive effects of it and though I think discipline is very important I believe in alternate forms in all but the most extreme circumstance.
As such, it is no ones choice but the parents to use corpral punishment, and if anyone choses to lay their hands on my child there will be severe consiquences.
Self defense is no argument where a toddler is concerned.
As far as breaking the stick, I think its understandable, but out of line, as mentioned he could have simply taken it away.
I certinally think that child sounds like he needs a lot more discipline than he gets, but it is the parents right and responsibility to provide.

Lastly corpral punishment has its place, but people who hold it up as the only method of effective discipline I think are quite mistaken, and think the only way they can get respect or well behaved children is with the back of their hand (and that says a lot about them actually) There are many effective forms of discipline and most of them are far healthier, and better than corpral punishement. Though when push comes to running out in the street with a toddler, a smack on the leg has its place, imo.

 

[fireguardian]

Personally I agree with you on this, Slacker. I don't have kids so I can't talk as a parent but I have much (at least a decade) younger siblings. I know spanking was used as discipline when I was younger and has not been for my sisters. There is a drastic difference between how my brother and I acted and how my sisters act. The older of the two could care less about showing any one any real shred of respect and there is far more shouting in the house. I dread having to be the one left with her (the youngest isn't all that bad just stubborn not uncommon in my family hehe). Even though it may not seem to be my place there have been times that I have smacked her. Amazingly she stops what she was doing and/or screaming. Yeah I have to deal with the aftermath of her crying but then she gets over it just like any other kid will get over.

Now I am not for beating the crap out of the kid but a good swap here and there when it is called for keeps a kid in line. If I child thinks it's okay to hit me then they need to learn that it is not acceptable. My sister has learned this lesson and she doesn't hit, kick or pinch me any more because she learned that I give her a warning if she does it again she gets one more and the third time she gets whacked and she knows that one whack will hurt more than the three she gave me. Now she just tries to make me go deaf with her screaming.

However I don't think your brother had to break th stick probably just leave it out of reach. So yeah he should probably buy a new one but with the stipulation to your friend that while you like to hang out you aren't going to take the kids abuse. If the parents aren't going to do anything to stop the kid don't go ever and tell them why you won't. The parents need to make it clear to their kid that his behavior is unacceptable. You have to be careful with stepping in and dsciplining someone else's child but if they didn't object the first time maybe address it with them. Couldn't hurt, right?

 

[steph]

Mph, unfortunately all too familiar with this one (sort of). A very large family member broke my beloved diving board several years ago, he has since collected 2 large settlements for a "back injury" and I'm still waiting for the piece of shit to do the right thing. He won't of course and some family members have told me to let it go. I will not. What's right is right and that's all there is to it. Want me not to tell everyone on the planet that you're a douchebag? Fix what you broke that wasn't yours. Problem solved.

Replace the toy stick as a teaching method, MAKE VERY SURE the child knows this is a one shot second chance, that in the future, he cannot behave like this or there will be consequences, severe ones and see to it they are enforced.
XOXO

 

[Skipadeedoodah]

I absolutely hate it when people let their kids behave that way. It makes it look like they couldn't care less what types of people their children grow up to be.

I don't think smacking a kid on the ass is the only way to discipline. I know plenty of kids who have never been spanked in their lives who are well-behaved kids. However, I definitely think spanking has its place, and is certainly not wrong, provided it's not over-used and the kid gets black and blues.

In this case, I think breaking the toy was a bit extreme, and actually could be teaching the kid a brand new bad habit, but I certainly understand the guy's frustration and the point he was trying to make. Buying the kid a new stick is his decision, and I don't think he'd be wrong either way. It's really not even about the kid, but about the relationship with the parents. The kid will forget about the stick in two days. The parents are going to be the ones to hold a grudge (or not, depending on the relationship your brother has with them, and if they make that type of thing a habit).

As far as the kid not knowing he was doing something wrong, my neice is four, but it wasn't long ago that she was three, and she ABSOLUTELY, no question about it, knew that hitting people with things was wrong, because it was taught to her. Unless they never taught the kid that hitting was wrong, and he doesn't speak basic English (i.e. Stop it - No - That hurts) he KNEW he was doing something wrong and just didn't care.

 

[kis123]

For those of you who do not think a three year old has the ability to understand or control their behavior, try this one out for size.

My daughter was not quite two (now 19) at the time. She wanted a popsicle but dinner was about 15 mins away so I said "no-wait until after dinner." Shortly afterwards, I went to the bathroom; when I came out this is what I witnessed:

She went to her father, took him by the hand, walked him to the freezer, and said "popsicle/" He thought it was oh so cute and proceeded to give it to her. Imagine both of their surprise when that popsicle went flying into the air (of course after I snatched it but missed). Me and her father argued for two days over that.

Wanna know what she learned? She learned when mommy says "no" just go to Daddy. If mommy disciplines her, daddy disciplines mommy so I either get my way or vindication when I don't. It took a whole lot of discipline to break her from that manipulation.

No one on this board can convince me that a three year old doesn't know that swinging a hockey stick can't hurt someone. I don't happen to own a penis, but if a kid swung and hit one with a hockey stick, a broken hockey stick was a good deal IMO. What if the man in question knee jerked out of pain and knocked that kid across the room? A lot of you would be complaining how wrong he was to hit a kid! It's a hockey stick for goodness sake; he shouldn't be playing with it in the house anyway.

If it were me, I'd replace the stick then follow venray's advice. If you can't contol your kid and teach right from wrong, I don't want you around me and I'm not going to visit you.

 

[Redmage]

As far as the kid not knowing he was doing something wrong, my neice is four, but it wasn't long ago that she was three, and she ABSOLUTELY, no question about it, knew that hitting people with things was wrong, because it was taught to her. Unless they never taught the kid that hitting was wrong, and he doesn't speak basic English (i.e. Stop it - No - That hurts) he KNEW he was doing something wrong and just didn't care.

Yes, chances are he knew and didn't care. That's a 3 yr old thing. "Right" and "wrong" just aren't major concerns at that age. Hell's bells, chances are the boy's been forming simple sentences for only a few months. His moral knowledge just isn't that advanced.

That is something he'll grow out of, with proper training. But the fact that he acts that way at his age isn't a sign of poor parenting. It's a sign of being 3 years old. And if a grown man can't manage the threat behavior of a toddler without violence, then the toddler isn't the one who needs to act his age.

 

[slacker2114]

Yes, chances are he knew and didn't care. That's a 3 yr old thing. "Right" and "wrong" just aren't major concerns at that age. Hell's bells, chances are the boy's been forming simple sentences for only a few months. His moral knowledge just isn't that advanced.

That is something he'll grow out of, with proper training. But the fact that he acts that way at his age isn't a sign of poor parenting. It's a sign of being 3 years old. And if a grown man can't manage the threat behavior of a toddler without violence, then the toddler isn't the one who needs to act his age.

Have you ever taken a hard shot to the nuts in your life? I have. My, and I'm betting 99% of the male population's, initial reaction is to remove whatever just hit you there far away from you as quickly as possible. Unless of course, nut shots is something you're into.

Perhaps the breaking of the stick, which was probably about $15, was a bit over the top, but considering the way many others would have reacted, it was not that extreme and certainly not unjustifiable. It's not like my brother went on a rampage and destroyed everything the kid holds dear.

As far as his behavior being typical 3-year old behavior, I totally disagree on that. I've seen kids his age that never did anything like that. It's a learned behavior, possibly from horseplay and whatnot, which is fine. But if the parents don't start showing the child, yes even at 3 years, to show restraint and to know what boundries are, it will just continue to get worse.

 

[xionking]

When my cousin was 3 and I met him the first time, our introduction consisted of a G.I. Joe being pegged at my head from the top of a staircase, followed instantly by a barrage of other toys...

...Now the kid is like a horse riding band geek, with a taste for sushi - and he didn't even make the baseball team.

Kids will be kids.

-Xionking

 

[Skipadeedoodah]

Yes, chances are he knew and didn't care. That's a 3 yr old thing. "Right" and "wrong" just aren't major concerns at that age. Hell's bells, chances are the boy's been forming simple sentences for only a few months. His moral knowledge just isn't that advanced.

That is something he'll grow out of, with proper training. But the fact that he acts that way at his age isn't a sign of poor parenting. It's a sign of being 3 years old. And if a grown man can't manage the threat behavior of a toddler without violence, then the toddler isn't the one who needs to act his age.

I agree in the sense that any kid that age is going to push their boundaries regardless of having the best or worst parents. My argument is that according to the OP this is typical behavior for this kid, and that is not just him being 3 years old. The only way a kid is going to act like that on a regular basis is if he's allowed to, and that is a direct reflection on his parents.

When my cousin was 3 and I met him the first time, our introduction consisted of a G.I. Joe being pegged at my head from the top of a staircase, followed instantly by a barrage of other toys...

...Now the kid is like a horse riding band geek, with a taste for sushi - and he didn't even make the baseball team.

Kids will be kids.

-Xionking

Of course they will! When I was 4(ish), we got a new puppy, who I adored. One day, I was coming down the hall to go down the stairs, and she was coming down from the other end to go down the stairs, and cut me off. Then, being a puppy, she was very very very slow going down the stairs, and I, for whatever reason, was in a hurry, so I picked her up and tossed her. She skidded on all four legs down the stairs and was, by the grace of God, unharmed. I knew I shouldn't have done it, and I wasn't trying to hurt her, but I could have killed her!! I got a hell of an ass beating and I deserved it!!

Kids will be kids, but that doesn't make their actions excusable, and they absolutely need to be shown that what they did was wrong.

 

[xionking]

Agreed.


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Nice Hoobastank lyric!

-Xionking

 

[Skipadeedoodah]

Agreed.


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Nice Hoobastank lyric!

-Xionking

Thanks 🙂

 

[BellaRisa]

You have to be kidding.

Slacker, you know I love you. Having said that, as a mom and a preschool teacher that whole post vexed me. This 3 yr old had his toy broken and had someone other than his parents hit him. Um...what? While I totally get why, trust me that is not how you teach a child how to be a human who can behave well among the rest of us. All he'll learn from that incident is that hitting people is ok as long as you're an authority figure, mom and dad are useless and don't really deserve respect, and that violence is generally the way to go. Not cool. I am ***not*** saying that child's behavior should have been tolerated, not by a long shot (people who know me KNOW I don't play that), I'm just saying that his toy could have been taken away until he could use it properly AND undermining his parents authority by stepping in and using physical punishment did nothing for his relationship with them or with other people. I've been in the kid biz a long time and I am SO tired of grown people thinking hitting a little kid is in any way beneficial in the long term; that scenario you wrote up is how bullies and chronically angry people who can't solve a problem without their fists are made.

My 2 cents, feel free to disagree 🙂

 

[BlackestLily]

Slacker, you know I love you. Having said that, as a mom and a preschool teacher that whole post vexed me. This 3 yr old had his toy broken and had someone other than his parents hit him. Um...what? While I totally get why, trust me that is not how you teach a child how to be a human who can behave well among the rest of us. All he'll learn from that incident is that hitting people is ok as long as you're an authority figure, mom and dad are useless and don't really deserve respect, and that violence is generally the way to go. Not cool. I am ***not*** saying that child's behavior should have been tolerated, not by a long shot (people who know me KNOW I don't play that), I'm just saying that his toy could have been taken away until he could use it properly AND undermining his parents authority by stepping in and using physical punishment did nothing for his relationship with them or with other people. I've been in the kid biz a long time and I am SO tired of grown people thinking hitting a little kid is in any way beneficial in the long term; that scenario you wrote up is how bullies and chronically angry people who can't solve a problem without their fists are made.

My 2 cents, feel free to disagree 🙂

I completely, 100% agree with this.

 

[Deleted member 66627]

I am SO tired of grown people thinking hitting a little kid is in any way beneficial in the long term; that scenario you wrote up is how bullies and chronically angry people who can't solve a problem without their fists are made.

I disagree. I'm not chronically angry and I've solved plenty of problems without my fists.

As well as an assload of other folks who were spanked/physically disciplined as kids.

 

[Redmage]

Have you ever taken a hard shot to the nuts in your life?

Yep. So I know that a 3 yr old boy isn't strong enough to deliver one.

Perhaps the breaking of the stick, which was probably about $15, was a bit over the top, but considering the way many others would have reacted, it was not that extreme and certainly not unjustifiable. It's not like my brother went on a rampage and destroyed everything the kid holds dear.

True, that would be worse. This was bad enough.

As far as his behavior being typical 3-year old behavior, I totally disagree on that. I've seen kids his age that never did anything like that.

Never? You lived with those kids 24/7? The fact that the boy did this doesn't mean that he always did it.

It's a learned behavior, possibly from horseplay and whatnot, which is fine. But if the parents don't start showing the child, yes even at 3 years, to show restraint and to know what boundries are, it will just continue to get worse.

True. But at his age, "whooping his ass" won't teach that lesson. The best you can do is take away whatever he uses to hit people with or put him in a safe area if he does such things without an implement. That will tend to discourage the behavior (or at least make it impossible) until he's actually old enough to understand why it's wrong.