Wheres All The Real Tickle Torture?

[skelyrata]

Just be careful on what we are focusing on

I have been giving a lot of thought to this matter.

There is a very thin line between promoting a playful roleplaying fantasy vs promoting violence against women and other people.

And I know that this was not the intention of the original post, but you must be aware that adult media producers have to be very careful with what they do and not to lose focus and give the impression that they are selling "violence against women".

Remember that in most parts of the US, and the world, what we do is considered illegal, but we have the first ammendment to keep us safe as long as we do not encourage harmful activity with our work.

If you make a quick search over clips4sales, for example, you will se that there are only a few hardcore bondage clipstores out there. And those who do that kind of work are based in foreign countries (outside the United States) where laws are more liberals about sexual material and violent content.

Maybe thats why ticklejapan or the stores from Russia, Philipines, Brazil, and other far away countries have more extreme tickle torture material.

But in the United States, we have to be very careful at how our productions are percieved because if for any reason we give the impression that we are promoting violence against women and obscene sexual behavior we can get into trouble.

Maybe for clandestines studios this doesn't matter, but for those, like me, that are serious about this, keeping our act clean is very important.

 

[MikeMike]

Redmage, I find your analysis interesting, and most likely accurate.

As an aside, I was under the impression that Insex compensated considerably more than the range you indicated. I thought those models were receiving $10k or more for some of the shoots. Am I mistaken?

 

[Ace Riley]

If you want to see this very thing in video form I reccomend http://www.dungeonmaidens.com

Two videos in particular fill this bill OP.

Micah's Tickle Torture
O the Tickling

Both models only appeared once, as I learned, Micah wasn't too particularly happy when the video was done either. In fact, the video cuts out rather suddenly. She was rather mad about it, but she did it, got the money and never came back.

O was similar, in that situation the husband was in on the deal, but they went a bit overboard on that one too. We're talking beyond I think she even thought she would be in. No joke. Watch the video, at the end she's pretty damn done.

They are excellent examples, and some of the better video producers for this kind of thing. At the same time, despite being my favorite producers... they haven't released alot of new videos.

Dungeonmaiden's is a harsh, rough, and darker world of tickling, thus their video producing might have taken a hit from it. It's not easy for someone to want to sign up for this level of torture. Bless those that do.

 

[Edge]

I think Yaqi does a great job of really tickle "Torturing" girls...he is completely relentless on those girls...
tickle central I really am down on lately...the bedspread series with the Ticklemaster...he tickles them yeah and they are very ticklish often but as soon as he really is giving it to them bad and they are completely losing it...he stops and gives them like 30 seconds or more without tickling them...he finds their worst spots but doesn't relentlessly attack them...

 

[Redmage]

If you make a quick search over clips4sales, for example, you will se that there are only a few hardcore bondage clipstores out there. And those who do that kind of work are based in foreign countries (outside the United States) where laws are more liberals about sexual material and violent content.

Maybe thats why ticklejapan or the stores from Russia, Philipines, Brazil, and other far away countries have more extreme tickle torture material.

But in the United States, we have to be very careful at how our productions are percieved because if for any reason we give the impression that we are promoting violence against women and obscene sexual behavior we can get into trouble.

Head over to www.kink.com and take a look at some of their sites. Be warned that if you don't like heavy SM then this may be hard for you. They do SM as heavy as anyone currently on the net, I believe. But they address this concern by including interviews with the models both before and after the session to make it clear that everything was consensual. They also post a list of "models' rights" and rules for their producers right on their website.

Kink.com is based right here in San Francisco, and they're so successful that they recently bought the San Francisco Armory to use as their production studio. That should give some idea of how much larger the SM market is than the tickling market. The owner of Kink.com paid $14 million for that building, and he considered it a good deal. Even if every producer of tickling material on the internet got together I don't think they could come up with that sort of money.

The sheer size of the market has a lot of influence n the sorts of things that can be made. Also I think that people who like those truly torturous scenarios are more likely to find a home in the SM scene than they are here (if nothing else the SM community has more social structure in place for handling such play safely and well).

I was under the impression that Insex compensated considerably more than the range you indicated. I thought those models were receiving $10k or more for some of the shoots. Am I mistaken?

No one was getting that much for a standard 3-4 hour shoot. Insex did do a few special shoots that lasted 24 or even 48 hours, and for those the model's hourly rate might push it up to the low five figures for the entire shoot.

They could make money off those deals because such a long shoot gives them a lot more footage to sell. And the novelty of a model spending a full day or two days in one bondage scenario or another was a big selling point. Even so those shoots were pretty rare: seldom more than 3 or 4 times a year.

 

[Edge]

Damn that kink.com site is really seriously extreme...I thought I had seen extreme before but wow they really almost scarily hurt those girls.

 

[Redmage]

Almost is key. They're very careful about safety there. They have to be.

 

[Ace Riley]

Damn that kink.com site is really seriously extreme...I thought I had seen extreme before but wow they really almost scarily hurt those girls.

I think honestly, most people on the TMF aren't true fetishists. It's like a Yahoo group community to them, and not an adult forum.

We treat each other like children, when the truth is... we're adults. We should know the difference between fantasy and reality, and we should know that the decision of adults are for those participating individuals alone.

It's sad, that as old and grown as some of us can be, we can have such childish views on these issues. Our perspective is so narrow... truly, people haven't even seen the majority of fetishes out there, and they honestly think tickling can be considered cruel, even in the extreme.

As emotionally traumatizing a severe tickling was when you were a kid, it's not as debilitating as it used to be when you're older. Even then, when put on a pound for pound comparison out there... we're generally pretty softcore.

Comparing ruthless tickling to rape, even when going overboard, is a gross statement and honestly shows just how sheltered you are in the adult community.

 

[SlaverTickler]

I think honestly, most people on the TMF aren't true fetishists. It's like a Yahoo group community to them, and not an adult forum.

We treat each other like children, when the truth is... we're adults. We should know the difference between fantasy and reality, and we should know that the decision of adults are for those participating individuals alone.

It's sad, that as old and grown as some of us can be, we can have such childish views on these issues. Our perspective is so narrow... truly, people haven't even seen the majority of fetishes out there, and they honestly think tickling can be considered cruel, even in the extreme.

As emotionally traumatizing a severe tickling was when you were a kid, it's not as debilitating as it used to be when you're older. Even then, when put on a pound for pound comparison out there... we're generally pretty softcore.

Comparing ruthless tickling to rape, even when going overboard, is a gross statement and honestly shows just how sheltered you are in the adult community.

Tickling is like anything elts you do to the human body ACE. Some people like to be spanked, but if you hit them to hard, or without there permition it is abuse. Some people like to be choked during sex, but again if you don't have the slef controle to stop it is abuse. If you pin someone down and tickle them (even with there consent) it can reach an abusive level if you don't stop when they are serriesly telling you to (as aposed to the "Oh Stop, Please Stop." that comes naturaly).

Basicly (and feel free to quote me Red Mage) anything can be abuse if it is done to excess or with out consent, regardless of how harmless you may find it to be.

 

[Redmage]

I might be wrong, Slaver, but I think what Ace was getting at was the possibility that folks here might be complaining that their tickling erotica wasn't extreme enough, and then be put off by the intensity level at a site like kink.com. Everything that happens on that site is consensual, but it's definitely on the heavy end of things.

I linked to kink.com for two reasons. One was to show that it's possible to get quite intense and still stay on the happy side of American law. The other was to give folks a benchmark for the intensity level I was thinking of when I used kink.com's prices for my cost estimates earlier in the thread. Anyone who finds the stuff there overwhelming might want to recalibrate what they mean when they talk about "extreme" tickling play. And anyone who thinks kink.com isn't intense enough might want to stick to fantasy. I don't think we can go much beyond what they do there and remain legal.

 

[kis123]

No, you're taking his words completely out of context. Like I said, this is seeing criminal intent where there is none. First off, let me get this out of the way, you don't have to tell me why actual non-con tickling is wrong. It's pretty obvious why. Second, no you don't have to pull a stranger into the bushes to have a true tickle torture video. Third, yes, most of the men DID want to see merciless tickle torture. Myself included. No one said they wanted to see a rape scene. This claim represents perfectly what I said in my previous post: "And no, whatever insidious act you think this or that person is implying that he/she wants to see, no they're not. No one is. You're the only one around thinking about it. Just you."

I, like Todd, want to see an incredibly intense video with a beautiful girl completely immobilized and mercilessly tickled. I want to see the look of panic in her eyes when she sees the tickling coming and when she realizes that she can't do anything to stop it. I want to see her begging for mercy, gasping desperately for air, screaming, etc. But I don't want to see a girl get kidnapped and abused against her will. The fact that no one requested that is fairly convenient. We pretty much all assume that a model goes to a tickling shoot willingly. It goes without saying for any video (I don't think Skelyrata is knocking Emily over the head with a frying pan 3 times a week and bringing her back to his place). Where you guys got the idea of a pervert breaking into someone's home and torturing them without consent is well beyond me.



No, he wants a lee, not a victim. He described incidents as non-con torture as scenarios. Again, I thought the implications (or lack thereof) were pretty obvious, and I still hold that they are. And you're right, we are obviously not on the same page. Just read what Primetime just wrote. He's got it. He's on the ball here. It's really not that hard.

No it's not hard at all!

He wants a tickle torture victim, not a lee! You can put the suit and tie on the pig and dress it up, but it's still a pig, and he still wants a victim tickle tortured beyond limits. He described scenarios of people being pinned down (against their will) and being tickle tortured into humiliation. Now, how's that for not hard to figure out? Well, you go ahead with your "opinion" and I'll go with EXACTLY what he meant.

I read what Primetime wrote and he's entitled to his opinion just like I'm entitled mine. And I see no reason to change my opinion either.

 

[Ace Riley]

I might be wrong, Slaver, but I think what Ace was getting at was the possibility that folks here might be complaining that their tickling erotica wasn't extreme enough, and then be put off by the intensity level at a site like kink.com. Everything that happens on that site is consensual, but it's definitely on the heavy end of things.

I linked to kink.com for two reasons. One was to show that it's possible to get quite intense and still stay on the happy side of American law. The other was to give folks a benchmark for the intensity level I was thinking of when I used kink.com's prices for my cost estimates earlier in the thread. Anyone who finds the stuff there overwhelming might want to recalibrate what they mean when they talk about "extreme" tickling play. And anyone who thinks kink.com isn't intense enough might want to stick to fantasy. I don't think we can go much beyond what they do there and remain legal.

Thank you Ropemaster, much appreciated.

Yes Slaver, my friend, all things in excess can be dangerous unwanted and downright cruel. However some people just take the fantasy of a scenario and take it to the extreme in their perspective. In both sides of the coin. Some feel it needs to go over the edge, some feel it gets way too close to that edge.

Some people feel that one needs a safeword for every engagement, others feel one is never truly in bondage if a word can free them regardless of how tightly they are tied.

Many here, including myself find most of the tickling as in the produced videos a bit on the tame side. This is because in most fetishes, they DO take their partners to limits most here would find particularly disturbing. Drawing blood, electric shock, public humiliation, cutting, bruising, beating, caning... it could make most ill, yet they take them to that edge and back. They don't tease them with it, they don't pretend to take them there and offer them an escape neccesarily.

They put a level of trust in their masters, handlers, partners, playmates... whatever you wish you call them, and they... with all the love and knowledge and wisdom that they possess with their perception take them to that edge.

I don't see that OFTEN on the TMF. I rarely see it with tickling in general, thus I have come to the reality, that tickling isn't as extremely tortorous or sensory manipulating to us all to be truly called "torture"... not for ALL of us, and not for all 'lees. And you know what? That's JUST fine. Tickling is more about the interaction between two people and the limits of sensation, not the brutal overload of it in the first place.

However some have NOT come to this conclusion, therefore everything they see, is such an extreme dissapointment at the CORE of our fetish, of our desire to see someone be forced to let go, and abandon their roots in reality and control and simply be forced to laugh. It's WHY we tie up a ticklee, it's why we invented safewords in the first place... because there is supposed to be a limit that is pushed, deep inside we all want to see how far we can go.

...but the truth is that not all of us can go that far, and quite frankly... most of us aren't ready to see it. Video companies, in our virgin genre have to be careful. This site, has to be careful and individuals need to be careful... because alot of fetish lovers on this site have not come to that understanding.

Personally, to the OP and everyone else that has been in this boat. I implore you to expand your wisdom, and put yourself in the perspective of others. Understand them... you don't have to agree... and if that level of tickling is truly what you want to see, I implore you to go out into the community.

Find someone that enjoys that level of interaction and explore it in reality. The odds of that are much higher than depending on the fingers of others to illicit the tickling that you yourself desperately wish to give...

 

[jkb]

No it's not hard at all!

He wants a tickle torture victim, not a lee! You can put the suit and tie on the pig and dress it up, but it's still a pig, and he still wants a victim tickle tortured beyond limits. He described scenarios of people being pinned down (against their will) and being tickle tortured into humiliation. Now, how's that for not hard to figure out? Well, you go ahead with your "opinion" and I'll go with EXACTLY what he meant.

I read what Primetime wrote and he's entitled to his opinion just like I'm entitled mine. And I see no reason to change my opinion either.

Why don't you ask Todd "EXACTLY" what he meant instead of interpreting it for yourself and telling me that your interpretation is fact while mine doesn't barely warrants being called an opinion (hence the quotation marks)? But fine, he meant whatever you want him to have meant. I'm tired of this. If you tell me Todd put down that he wants to kick puppies, I'll just go with that. I don't care.

 

[Todd Tickles]

stop crying you toothless hick

TO WHOEVER WROTE: I'm one of those who was tickle tortured as a child; I didn't find it funny or acceptable. I associated it with violation and borderline rape; someone got their rocks off at my expense and it's why I prefer being the ler. Being the ler meant I didn't get hurt. If you think non consentual torture is fun and something to get off on, that's your business. I think it's a total violation and humilation and will NEVER let it happen to me again ever!!

Do you have a mother, sisters, or female family members? This could easily happen to them. Would you like to see it on a video because they fell on financial hard times and made a less than desireable juidgement call? How would you like it then?

And Azrel (or whatever your name is) attacking Babbles for what she believes in just because you disagree with it is irresponsible and immature. Then again, you seem to have a talent for that per your post in the P&R thread. You might think it's controversial, but it's offesnive to more than you benefit.

Where is the real tickle torture? In your mind where it belongs!!!



Get lost you loser. If you dont like real tickle torture then go to another message board or keep your mouth shut you judgmental ingnoramous. I couldn't care less about what you experienced as a child and neither can almost anyone else posting in this thread. I've been coming here for years, and have seen a million posts in the vidoe section, and descriptions on many many tickling video producers website describing thier videos as "insane, real tickle torture" or "non consentual" or "the most ticlish victom ever" and a ton of other descriptions talking about how the "victom" in this or that video literally cant handle anymore.

Stop acting like I'm some guy whos asking a video producer to go grab some girl off the street at 4:00am and kidnap her and tie her up and tickle tortur her against her will. I'm not a psyco you freak. I'm not suggesting anything but MORE of what I've seen in a VERY FEW of the videos produced by a handfull of tickle torture video producers on this very website. No one feels sorry for you because you were tickled against your will when you were a kid. Get over it already. Just cause you hated it and felt violated, doesnt make every guy in the world who loves to see a helpless, and super ticklish victom, tickled to tears, a bad guy, or a violator of women, or anything close to what you are implying in your really immature post. Get a clue for god's sake.

If I had to guess, 80% of this board would love to see a helpless victom, tickled beyond insanity. If you have such a small brain, to where you really believe, those of us who adore REAL tickle torture where the victom is tickled to the point of hysterics, and is laughing so hard their head almost explodes, are actually border line rapists, you are the most obtuse piece of flotsam I've ever seen.

Boarderline rape? Violation? Hahahahaha! Get lost you creep. This message board is FILLED with people writing stories about unwilling victoms being tickled beyond their limits, and MANY people read them. Why? cause they LOVE fantasizing about true tickle torture. Same with the video posts. Go look loser!!!!!! People LOVE real tickle torture with no faking, no NON ticklish girls, NO boring soft laughter. We want hard core tickle torture. I've seen it in some videos I own and I love it and want more of it.

If you don't like my opinion, and have some twisted view of the world where all of us who love to see a helpless victom tied and tickled so bad she is almost crying, are boarderline rapists, you really need some help. Go see a shrink or something you opinionated, braindead pig. Why youre even on this board is beyond me. Do you cry every time someone makes a post in the video section titled "tickled until she cries" or "Sandy gets tickled till she Pees?" This is a tickle torture board, so keep your sophmoric, cliche, immature opinions to yourself and go to another message board. I suggest the "fake, cheesy, non helpless, semi ticklish board" It's great for people like you. They show losers who arent really ticklish, NOT getting tied up, and getting their hands rubbed with feathers to make sure it doesnt tickle them THAT much. God knows if they actually tied the victom down and used their fingers, they'd be boarderline rapists. Pfffffffffffffff. Idiot.

 

[skelyrata]

Tickling vs torture

Do you guys know that is easier to find girls to do hardcore bondage and BDSM, and physical torture, rather that extreme tickle torture?

I think the sensations that tickling produce are too personal.

I have actually had 2 models that during the tickling actually tried to negotiate to do a bondage and torture scene and no more tickling.

 

[Babbles]

Yup, you just proved our point. Totally inappropriate.

TO WHOEVER WROTE:------
Get lost you [edited]. If you dont like real tickle torture then go to another message board or keep your mouth shut you judgmental ingnoramous. I couldn't care less about what you experienced as a child and neither can almost anyone else posting in this thread.

Dead wrong. I think most do care, and have no respect for anyone who wouldn't. Looking at your posts here it's clear you're the sore thumb who should look elsewhere.
If you weren't so offensive I'd have thanked you for FINALLY clarifying your position, but you did as much damage or more instead.

I've been coming here for years, and have seen a million posts in the vidoe section, and descriptions on many many tickling video producers website describing thier videos as "insane, real tickle torture" or "non consentual" or "the most ticlish victom ever" and a ton of other descriptions talking about how the "victom" in this or that video literally cant handle anymore.

I've been here for "years" as well, and while I don't live in the vid section, I haven't seen too many marketed as "real non con,"
and then there have been some equally loud protests for those as well.
Where have *you been?

Stop acting like I'm some guy whos asking a video producer to go grab some girl off the street at 4:00am and kidnap her and tie her up and tickle tortur her against her will. I'm not a psyco you freak. I'm not suggesting anything but MORE of what I've seen in a VERY FEW of the videos produced by a handfull of tickle torture video producers on this very website.

Actually that's exactly, literally what you gave as an example.
REAL torture of REALLY unsuspecting girl-next-door-childhood-victims.

Express yourself PROPERLY or don't jump on the rest of us for taking you at your word.

Since you didn't, if you'd then *explained your intent was *NOT to have the
nonconsensual childhood tickling torture you referred to (which was beyond tasteless in itself)
LITERALLY revisited in video here again
much EARLIER in this thread you created, there would've been no problem.

No one feels sorry for you because you were tickled against your will when you were a kid. Get over it already. Just cause you hated it and felt violated, doesnt make every guy in the world who loves to see a helpless, and super ticklish victom, tickled to tears, a bad guy, or a violator of women, or anything close to what you are implying in your really immature post. Get a clue for god's sake.

Dead wrong again. I feel sorry, would love to bust the bastard/s who did it,
and NOBODY here said that those here who enjoy really extreme tickle torture
---with willing, informed "victims" ---- are evil violators.

Only if they recreate the examples you first gave, with unsuspecting victims. Many of us, most of us, are NOT into violent tear-strewn miserable tickling, but no one here passed judgement if the model is informed & willing & safe.
But those safety precautions are pre-requisites which need be clarified.

If I had to guess, 80% of this board would love to see a helpless victom, tickled beyond insanity. If you have such a small brain, to where you really believe, those of us who adore REAL tickle torture where the victom is tickled to the point of hysterics, and is laughing so hard their head almost explodes, are actually border line rapists, you are the most obtuse piece of flotsam I've ever seen.

Small brain? kis? You must be kidding.
Unless it's ultra-packed with high intensity gray matter. Come to think of it, some of the world's documented geniouses were tiny people...
Her posts leave most of ours in the dust, and yours are behind a few millenia at least.

And more than half here *don't seem to like their "torture" that extreme, from what I've read, but it's impossible to tell. And then not *literally unless with safeguards in place for the Lee, I'd hope.

Fantasy we're not concerned about as long as it doesn't overwhelm reality.

Boarderline rape? Violation? Hahahahaha! Get lost you creep. This message board is FILLED with people writing stories about unwilling victoms being tickled beyond their limits, and MANY people read them. Why? cause they LOVE fantasizing about true tickle torture. Same with the video posts. [edited] --- People LOVE real tickle torture with no faking, no NON ticklish girls, NO boring soft laughter. We want hard core tickle torture. I've seen it in some videos I own and I love it and want more of it.

Actually yes, if the victim is unaware & unwilling, it's assault, or, "borderline rape."

No one here said anything about fantasies, in print or on video. I've created non-con fantasy myself but would not hesitate to maul someone if I caught them forcefully torturing someone in reality.
Her point escaped you completely.
We're against REAL non-con, which is what you clearly seemed to ask for.

If you don't like my opinion, and have some twisted view of the world where all of us who love to see a helpless victom tied and tickled so bad she is almost crying, are boarderline rapists, you really need some help. Go see a shrink or something you opinionated, [too idiotic to repeat].

....They show losers who arent really ticklish, NOT getting tied up, and getting their hands rubbed with feathers to make sure it doesnt tickle them THAT much. God knows if they actually tied the victom down and used their fingers, they'd be boarderline rapists. Pfffffffffffffff...

Glad you agree with that last basic understanding. That WAS the point. You didn't realize we shared it.

Otherwise you're so offensively off-base you should definitely take your own misplaced advice and find a tickle site which *only caters to the extremely sadistic. As long as your models are informed & willing, none of us will bother with you.

 

[Babbles]

Thank you!!!

Do you guys know that is easier to find girls to do hardcore bondage and BDSM, and physical torture, rather that extreme tickle torture?

I think the sensations that tickling produce are too personal.

I have actually had 2 models that during the tickling actually tried to negotiate to do a bondage and torture scene and no more tickling.

Thank you so much for this insight, I've heard this too--
Many of us know tickling can be very pleasant or literally painful; others have articulated this (better than I am) elsewhere also --- but I definitely understand why some "hardcore BDSM" submissives of either gender can't take tickling.

Not merely "too personal," though that's also true,
but it's a unique sort of pain which can be *incredibly unbearable in the wrong circumstances.

 

[jaba]

better to remain silent and be thought a fool......

Get lost you loser. If you dont like real tickle torture then go to another message board or keep your mouth shut you judgmental ingnoramous. I couldn't care less about what you experienced as a child and neither can almost anyone else posting in this thread.

No one feels sorry for you because you were tickled against your will when you were a kid. Get over it already.

If I had to guess, 80% of this board would love to see a helpless victom, tickled beyond insanity.

This is a tickle torture board, so keep your sophmoric, cliche, immature opinions to yourself and go to another message board. I suggest the "fake, cheesy, non helpless, semi ticklish board" It's great for people like you. They show losers who arent really ticklish, NOT getting tied up, and getting their hands rubbed with feathers to make sure it doesnt tickle them THAT much. God knows if they actually tied the victom down and used their fingers, they'd be boarderline rapists. Pfffffffffffffff. Idiot.

and to think I was one of the ones willing to give you the benefit of the doubt until you had a chance to "clarify" your position......

I dont think I have ever seen a poster go from receiving the benefit of the doubt by many here, to crash landing in a heaping pile of flaming shit as fast as you have, todd.....that really takes a mighty effort....

by the way, can you direct me to the "Men who don't need to get their "rocks off" by the torturing of women by tickling or otherwise" message board?

 

[BigJim]

Yep, I agree that if a model knows about it going in and is satisfied with the price then that's voluntary. However a producer makes a profit only if he can sell enough vids at a high enough price to make back his costs and then some.

I think you'll find very few models willing to give what's asked for here at any price the producer can make back. Even though a tape like that might be worth any price, that doesn't mean there are enough people ready and able to pay what the producer would have to charge for something like that. That's why we don't see things like that more often.

I dunno man, I don't think it's that difficult. Maybe not the degree of torture mentioned here, but certainly to push the bar a lot higher. I certainly didn't find it too hard. Shame I can't be a pro.

 

[ChosenofMystra]

TO WHOEVER WROTE: I'm one of those who was tickle tortured as a child; I didn't find it funny or acceptable. I associated it with violation and borderline rape; someone got their rocks off at my expense and it's why I prefer being the ler. Being the ler meant I didn't get hurt. If you think non consentual torture is fun and something to get off on, that's your business. I think it's a total violation and humilation and will NEVER let it happen to me again ever!!

Do you have a mother, sisters, or female family members? This could easily happen to them. Would you like to see it on a video because they fell on financial hard times and made a less than desireable juidgement call? How would you like it then?

And Azrel (or whatever your name is) attacking Babbles for what she believes in just because you disagree with it is irresponsible and immature. Then again, you seem to have a talent for that per your post in the P&R thread. You might think it's controversial, but it's offesnive to more than you benefit.

Where is the real tickle torture? In your mind where it belongs!!!



Get lost you loser. If you dont like real tickle torture then go to another message board or keep your mouth shut you judgmental ingnoramous. I couldn't care less about what you experienced as a child and neither can almost anyone else posting in this thread. I've been coming here for years, and have seen a million posts in the vidoe section, and descriptions on many many tickling video producers website describing thier videos as "insane, real tickle torture" or "non consentual" or "the most ticlish victom ever" and a ton of other descriptions talking about how the "victom" in this or that video literally cant handle anymore.

Stop acting like I'm some guy whos asking a video producer to go grab some girl off the street at 4:00am and kidnap her and tie her up and tickle tortur her against her will. I'm not a psyco you freak. I'm not suggesting anything but MORE of what I've seen in a VERY FEW of the videos produced by a handfull of tickle torture video producers on this very website. No one feels sorry for you because you were tickled against your will when you were a kid. Get over it already. Just cause you hated it and felt violated, doesnt make every guy in the world who loves to see a helpless, and super ticklish victom, tickled to tears, a bad guy, or a violator of women, or anything close to what you are implying in your really immature post. Get a clue for god's sake.

If I had to guess, 80% of this board would love to see a helpless victom, tickled beyond insanity. If you have such a small brain, to where you really believe, those of us who adore REAL tickle torture where the victom is tickled to the point of hysterics, and is laughing so hard their head almost explodes, are actually border line rapists, you are the most obtuse piece of flotsam I've ever seen.

Boarderline rape? Violation? Hahahahaha! Get lost you creep. This message board is FILLED with people writing stories about unwilling victoms being tickled beyond their limits, and MANY people read them. Why? cause they LOVE fantasizing about true tickle torture. Same with the video posts. Go look loser!!!!!! People LOVE real tickle torture with no faking, no NON ticklish girls, NO boring soft laughter. We want hard core tickle torture. I've seen it in some videos I own and I love it and want more of it.

If you don't like my opinion, and have some twisted view of the world where all of us who love to see a helpless victom tied and tickled so bad she is almost crying, are boarderline rapists, you really need some help. Go see a shrink or something you opinionated, braindead pig. Why youre even on this board is beyond me. Do you cry every time someone makes a post in the video section titled "tickled until she cries" or "Sandy gets tickled till she Pees?" This is a tickle torture board, so keep your sophmoric, cliche, immature opinions to yourself and go to another message board. I suggest the "fake, cheesy, non helpless, semi ticklish board" It's great for people like you. They show losers who arent really ticklish, NOT getting tied up, and getting their hands rubbed with feathers to make sure it doesnt tickle them THAT much. God knows if they actually tied the victom down and used their fingers, they'd be boarderline rapists. Pfffffffffffffff. Idiot.

It is thought to be unbearably rude to use one's entire vocabulary in a single sitting.

And as for "immature posts" isn't that the pot calling the kettle black?

Take a backseat sparky, and take a rain check regarding your next immature, uncalled for hissy fit. You're a joke

 

[BigJim]

I'm guessing that you haven't actually worked with many models. The fact is that they all have things that they won't do for any amount of money. There are very few out there who will do what you want, and those that would will generally want so much for it that the producer can't sell it for a profit.

Look, it's just arithmetic. The more a producer charges for a video, the fewer people will be able to afford it (even if they'd be willing to pay what he's asking). So as the model's fee goes up, the number of tapes the producer will be able to sell goes down.

You seem to think that all he needs to do then is charge more for each video and make his profit that way. But in order for that to work then he'd have to be able to guarantee that he could sell at least one tape no matter how much he asks for it. If producers could do that then they'd all crank their prices up to $10 million each, sell one tape apiece, and retire.

It doesn't work like that, obviously. There comes a point on the price curve when there just aren't enough customers willing and able to pay the price. A video just won't sell if the price is too high, or it won't sell enough to make back the producer's costs. If the market is small to begin with (and the tickling erotica market is small) then this is even more true.

So in order to make a profit the producer has to find a balance: He wants to charge as much as he can, naturally, but he has to stay within the range in which he can sell enough tapes to live on. It doesn't matter if there's a small group of customers who are willing and able to pay 10 times his usual rate for a special sort of tape. If he can't find a model who wants less than 20 times the usual fee for that specialty, then it just won't get made.

Why do you think this sort of video is so rare? It's not because video producers don't want your money. It's because most of the time making that sort of tape isn't cost effective. There aren't enough people who'll pay what the producers would have to charge for such a project.

For what it's worth I think the stuff TC was producing about eight years ago would fit the bill perfectly. I still have a few VHS's from those days and they were full of screaming, howling and begging in general. I think videos have lost a lot of originality these days too, as well as their tickling "power".

 

[kis123]

What an example of a total lost cause!

TO WHOEVER WROTE: I'm one of those who was tickle tortured as a child; I didn't find it funny or acceptable. I associated it with violation and borderline rape; someone got their rocks off at my expense and it's why I prefer being the ler. Being the ler meant I didn't get hurt. If you think non consentual torture is fun and something to get off on, that's your business. I think it's a total violation and humilation and will NEVER let it happen to me again ever!!

Do you have a mother, sisters, or female family members? This could easily happen to them. Would you like to see it on a video because they fell on financial hard times and made a less than desireable juidgement call? How would you like it then?

And Azrel (or whatever your name is) attacking Babbles for what she believes in just because you disagree with it is irresponsible and immature. Then again, you seem to have a talent for that per your post in the P&R thread. You might think it's controversial, but it's offesnive to more than you benefit.

Where is the real tickle torture? In your mind where it belongs!!!



Get lost you loser. If you dont like real tickle torture then go to another message board or keep your mouth shut you judgmental ingnoramous. I couldn't care less about what you experienced as a child and neither can almost anyone else posting in this thread. I've been coming here for years, and have seen a million posts in the vidoe section, and descriptions on many many tickling video producers website describing thier videos as "insane, real tickle torture" or "non consentual" or "the most ticlish victom ever" and a ton of other descriptions talking about how the "victom" in this or that video literally cant handle anymore.

Stop acting like I'm some guy whos asking a video producer to go grab some girl off the street at 4:00am and kidnap her and tie her up and tickle tortur her against her will. I'm not a psyco you freak. I'm not suggesting anything but MORE of what I've seen in a VERY FEW of the videos produced by a handfull of tickle torture video producers on this very website. No one feels sorry for you because you were tickled against your will when you were a kid. Get over it already. Just cause you hated it and felt violated, doesnt make every guy in the world who loves to see a helpless, and super ticklish victom, tickled to tears, a bad guy, or a violator of women, or anything close to what you are implying in your really immature post. Get a clue for god's sake.

If I had to guess, 80% of this board would love to see a helpless victom, tickled beyond insanity. If you have such a small brain, to where you really believe, those of us who adore REAL tickle torture where the victom is tickled to the point of hysterics, and is laughing so hard their head almost explodes, are actually border line rapists, you are the most obtuse piece of flotsam I've ever seen.

Boarderline rape? Violation? Hahahahaha! Get lost you creep. This message board is FILLED with people writing stories about unwilling victoms being tickled beyond their limits, and MANY people read them. Why? cause they LOVE fantasizing about true tickle torture. Same with the video posts. Go look loser!!!!!! People LOVE real tickle torture with no faking, no NON ticklish girls, NO boring soft laughter. We want hard core tickle torture. I've seen it in some videos I own and I love it and want more of it.

If you don't like my opinion, and have some twisted view of the world where all of us who love to see a helpless victom tied and tickled so bad she is almost crying, are boarderline rapists, you really need some help. Go see a shrink or something you opinionated, braindead pig. Why youre even on this board is beyond me. Do you cry every time someone makes a post in the video section titled "tickled until she cries" or "Sandy gets tickled till she Pees?" This is a tickle torture board, so keep your sophmoric, cliche, immature opinions to yourself and go to another message board. I suggest the "fake, cheesy, non helpless, semi ticklish board" It's great for people like you. They show losers who arent really ticklish, NOT getting tied up, and getting their hands rubbed with feathers to make sure it doesnt tickle them THAT much. God knows if they actually tied the victom down and used their fingers, they'd be boarderline rapists. Pfffffffffffffff. Idiot.

I'm the one who said it and thank you for proving my point better than even I could! I don't like your opinion and have EVERY RIGHT to disagree with you. The difference between you and me is that I chose to disagree like something you are obviously not-A MATURE ADULT! I didn't even bother to read throughout your pathetic ranting raging screaming post; you sound like a trip to the sandbox is in order. Go take a time out, cry to your mommy, and come back when you're ready to have an adult conversatioin-I'll be here when you're ready, but I certainly won't hold my breath.

I've been on this board nearly four years and someone like you isn't worth scraping off the bottom of my shoe much less trying to make me leave here. Grow up, get a life, find something else to do besides whine on the internet about your fantasy non consentual borderline rape torture you'd like turned into reality. Better yet, look up "psychiatric help' on google; there are plently of places that can help you now before it's too late!

So far I see how much you think of women in your feeble attempt to publicly lambaste one who doesn't agree with you. Or is it that I exposed that sick, twisted, sadistic part of you who think that women are no more than tickle toys to be played with at your whim? Whatever it is, you sure know how to torpedo yourself; even some of those who agreed with you are beginning to question you now. Way to go!

For all of you who backed this upstanding individual up, the only thing that I can tell you is "I told you so!"

 

[kis123]

and to think I was one of the ones willing to give you the benefit of the doubt until you had a chance to "clarify" your position......

I dont think I have ever seen a poster go from receiving the benefit of the doubt by many here, to crash landing in a heaping pile of flaming shit as fast as you have, todd.....that really takes a mighty effort....

by the way, can you direct me to the "Men who don't need to get their "rocks off" by the torturing of women by tickling or otherwise" message board?

It is better to be perceived as a fool than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt (paraphrase). Looks like someone missed a medication moment from here.

jaba, you gotta know that it takes more than this idiocy to run me off. He'll be gone from here long before I will, especially if he doesn't learn how to RESPECTFULLY disagree with those who don't share his opinion.

 

[kis123]

Dead wrong. I think most do care, and have no respect for anyone who wouldn't. Looking at your posts here it's clear you're the sore thumb who should look elsewhere.
If you weren't so offensive I'd have thanked you for FINALLY clarifying your position, but you did as much damage or more instead.


I've been here for "years" as well, and while I don't live in the vid section, I haven't seen too many marketed as "real non con,"
and then there have been some equally loud protests for those as well.
Where have *you been?


Actually that's exactly, literally what you gave as an example.
REAL torture of REALLY unsuspecting girl-next-door-childhood-victims.

Express yourself PROPERLY or don't jump on the rest of us for taking you at your word.

Since you didn't, if you'd then *explained your intent was *NOT to have the
nonconsensual childhood tickling torture you referred to (which was beyond tasteless in itself)
LITERALLY revisited in video here again
much EARLIER in this thread you created, there would've been no problem.


Dead wrong again. I feel sorry, would love to bust the bastard/s who did it,
and NOBODY here said that those here who enjoy really extreme tickle torture
---with willing, informed "victims" ---- are evil violators.

Only if they recreate the examples you first gave, with unsuspecting victims. Many of us, most of us, are NOT into violent tear-strewn miserable tickling, but no one here passed judgement if the model is informed & willing & safe.
But those safety precautions are pre-requisites which need be clarified.



Small brain? kis? You must be kidding.
Unless it's ultra-packed with high intensity gray matter. Come to think of it, some of the world's documented geniouses were tiny people...
Her posts leave most of ours in the dust, and yours are behind a few millenia at least.

And more than half here *don't seem to like their "torture" that extreme, from what I've read, but it's impossible to tell. And then not *literally unless with safeguards in place for the Lee, I'd hope.

Fantasy we're not concerned about as long as it doesn't overwhelm reality.



Actually yes, if the victim is unaware & unwilling, it's assault, or, "borderline rape."

No one here said anything about fantasies, in print or on video. I've created non-con fantasy myself but would not hesitate to maul someone if I caught them forcefully torturing someone in reality.
Her point escaped you completely.
We're against REAL non-con, which is what you clearly seemed to ask for.



Glad you agree with that last basic understanding. That WAS the point. You didn't realize we shared it.

Otherwise you're so offensively off-base you should definitely take your own misplaced advice and find a tickle site which *only caters to the extremely sadistic. As long as your models are informed & willing, none of us will bother with you.

Thank you for understanding; it is good that he made his viewpoints crystal clear. I really hope he works on his aggression issues; it make's him look like some sort of head case, doesn't it?

I've had some really nasty things said to me over the years, but I think he has taken the prize for being the most outrageous (emphasis on "rage"), ridiculously out-of-control rants ever hurled at me. I think I will go and cry now......not!!

I'm going to go take my kid shopping and hang out with my family for awhile. You know, a life outside of the internet; something I suspect someone else around here needs a little more of. I can hardly wait to read (or decipher) his witty and inciteful response.

 

[jkb]

...............Good job, Todd

Now before I begin, I want make 2 things perfectly clear. First, before making this post, I went back and carefully reread Todd's initial post and his more recent response, thus proving that I have no life. But I did so in order to make sure that when I speak, I know exactly what I'm talking about. Second, this conversation has gone past the point of insulting my intelligence.

Now frankly, I think people on both sides owe each other an apology. That means Todd (who didn't have anything to apologize about before that carefully crafted response he made earlier in the day) as well as those who have decided to oppose him. The major players in this discussion, at least.

First I'll start with the latter group. As I said, I went back... AGAIN... to look at the initial post. First, let's make sure we know that we are talking about the difference between non-con fantasy scenarios (model willingly consents to making a film that is NOT like Silvercherry's "just tie up the girl and tickle her" clips, but that utilizes a non-consensual scenario in order to cater to non-consensual fantasies, such as Starr being tickled in the Colombian dungeon in one of Tickling Paradise's clips in order to avoid being sent to Colombian prison) depicting the hardcore and intense tickling of a hysterically ticklish girl in tight bondage, and real non-con tickling torture (I grab random girl off the street and tickle her until she wets herself and develops a stuttering problem). At no point did Todd express any desire to perform the latter (real non-con torture), only the former (scenario with a non-con theme and/or tickle torture that sends the model into such hysterics you'd think it was really non-con).

Sheesh, I think there's been about zero video's produced where there's any sort of tickle torture in the true sense of the words. Remember when you were a kid and saw the neighborhood cutie, held down and tickled to the point of craziness? Or when you and your siblings used to hold down your most ticklish sister and make her absolutely freak out and cry because she'd be laughing and begging so hard? You know... "REAL" tickle torture!?

These are scenarios. Tickling Paradise's Starr being in a Colombian dungeon is also a scenario, as is Skelyrata's Emily being a law enforcement officer. Personally I prefer cheerleaders, Arab bellydancers, or girls in formal/prom-esque gowns, but to each his own. OR perhaps he prefers videos akin to what TF2000 posted later, with the guys gang tickling that girl from behind. While that would be technically non-consensual, I don't think anyone with a sane mind would consider that abuse. It's friends goofing around. But that is definitely "real" tickle torture, not staged as when a model signs a contract and arrives at a studio. The word "real" is the real bitch here, because in the phrase "real tickle torture", it could mean a whole lot of things. One should, though, give someone who utters that phrase the benefit of the doubt unless given a reason not to (especially since most of us aren't psycho rapists and aren't referring to some insidious act of molestation when uttering those words). After all, when a producer puts something like, "This is REAL TICKLE TORTURE of a HYSTERICALLY TICKLISH VICTIM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" on the description of a video, certainly you don't think that the lee was kidnapped and tortured against her will, do you?

Of course, we don't have interpret Todd request too much. He actually pretty much tells us what he's talking about right in the initial thread:

Examples of these kinds of moments are in movies like "the tickle slaves line "Miranda" or the upper body tickling parts of "realtickling" TC5042. There are a few other examples, but let's get real, 1% of all the tickling videos on the market actually have this kind of "REAL" tickling and pure tickle hell.

The plot for the Miranda video was that the girl only thought she was doing a bondage shoot but the ler tickled her instead once she was tied down. Of course, we all know that in real life it was staged, just like professional wrestling. Actually, the video really wasn't that great, in my opinion, but whatever. As for TC Videos, we've all seen enough of TIB's work to know that he doesn't specialize in home invasion. The models are willing and consent to the tickling.

I'm into serious tickle torture, where the victom is hyper ticklish and LAUGHS uncontrollably, not "fake screams and wiggles her way through 60 minutes of lame tickling.

No mention of actual non-consentual illegal torture anywhere.

Now here's the thing. OK, people somehow interpreted this as a request for someone to actually go out, kidnap a girl, actually torture her (real torture, not simply intense tickle torture), and film it for us. How that happened, I don't know, but whatever the case, it happened. Fine. But instead of asking Todd to clarify what he meant by asking him if he was requesting a non-con fantasy video or an actual non-con event, people instead saw fit to attack Todd's character. And those attacks were VICIOUS. Look, I didn't really like Todd's reply at all, and I will get to that in a minute, but to sit there and call him immature.... Talk about the pot calling the kettle black. Suddenly everybody's accusing him of everything that's wrong with the universe. Everybody starts going on about how he should look up the assault laws and ask if it's worth it--Who said anything about assault?--or labeling Todd's request as "nothing short of criminal"--Because it's not. That's not what he asked for--to either calling or at least implying that Todd is a "low life sack of shit" who should "die a slow death from cancer"--I'm hoping that I'm being a hypocrite and seeing malicious words where none exist with that one, because WOW!!-- to emphasizing over and over and over and over again that what Todd really wants is to see a girl dragged into the bushes and assaulted, or simply that he "wants a victim, not a lee". And then they wonder why Todd completely lost it.

Even after the work of art that was Todd's reply, people wouldn't stop putting words in his mouth and interpreting things the way they wanted (apparently, he had "clarified" his position, but the position he was accused of clarifying was the opposite of the position he claimed to have). Again, I didn't care for his reply any more than you guys did and felt that it was completely out of line (unless you are a firm believer in Hammurabi's Code, in which case, "an eye for an eye" has already worked its magic). But regardless and staying on topic, he made it more clear that ever that he was not looking for non-con tickling. As a matter of fact:

Stop acting like I'm some guy whos asking a video producer to go grab some girl off the street at 4:00am and kidnap her and tie her up and tickle tortur her against her will. I'm not a psyco you freak. I'm not suggesting anything but MORE of what I've seen in a VERY FEW of the videos produced by a handfull of tickle torture video producers on this very website.

He wants exactly what I and many others want:

People LOVE real tickle torture with no faking, no NON ticklish girls, NO boring soft laughter. We want hard core tickle torture. I've seen it in some videos I own and I love it and want more of it.

Again, no kidnapping. No children. No assault. No tricks. No non-consent. No trauma. No forced torture.

No problem? No chance........

What strikes me as backwards is the repeated claims that if the tickling request/clip/film/etc. was consensual and the model entered freely, then no one would be passing judgment. But that's all anyone's been doing on this thread since around page 3-ish, and no one has any basis for doing so. I could only imagine what it's like to be accused of such a thing, repeatedly no less. It's like you out of nowhere telling people that this guy over here molests children (though one is far more extreme than the other). Like I said, no one (except Azrael) actually took the time to ask something like "DID he ask for true non-con videos?" Instead, people only took the time to either hurl verbal attacks directly at Todd or to point them at him indirectly in their out-of-nowhere tirades about the dangers of non-consensual tickling, touching children, and so forth. Look, I'm not saying those people meant to do it, I'm not saying that it was done with malicious intent. I'm sure they had the best intentions, but good intentions mean nothing without a basis for accusation. Otherwise it is nothing but a vicious, baseless attack. And whatever your motives or intentions are, know that when you launch a vicious baseless attack, you can expect a vicious baseless reply. Speaking of vicious baseless replies........

Todd. Hi, Todd. Blood pressure back to normal yet? I hope so, because it's your turn. Frankly, I'm going to keep Todd's criticism short, partly because I just don't have the patience for this anymore, partly because my criticism for him is a lot more broad and general, and finally because he only had one offending post.

I was hoping you'd come out and defend yourselves, but from hereon I think you should just tell somebody what you want to say and have them type it out for you. I think your post was unnecessarily vicious and to say your words were uncalled for doesn't quite convey the full meaning of my words. That even applies to the parts I agreed with you on. Somehow, you managed to be more insulting and offensive to those who hurled the accusations at you than they were to you, something I didn't think was possible. Kudos on antagonizing people, but you failed to even come close to convincing people that you weren't a psychopath in dire need of therapy. Let's take a look at where you went wrong:

Get lost you loser. If you dont like real tickle torture then go to another message board or keep your mouth shut you judgmental ingnoramous. I couldn't care less about what you experienced as a child and neither can almost anyone else posting in this thread.

Actually, things fell apart when you titled your post "stop crying you toothless hick", but I think here is a good place to start. Um, actually there's not much I can really say about this. Those that weren't still directly accusing you of wanting to see an illegal kidnapping in action pretty much said everything. But I will say that to tell someone who was tickled against their will as a child (which in my eyes is child molestation) that no one cares and that there victimization doesn't matter is horrible. Not horrible like Holocaust jokes. I mean just as bad, no, far worse than accusing someone of wanting to take part in the molestation and torture of innocent girls. I just hope I don't have to explain why. Todd, I'm trying to help you out here. All my posts on this thread were in your defense. When you say something like this to someone who was victimized as a child, it diminishes my ability, and desire, to come to your defense.

You might as well have titled the thread, "I want to rape your mother". I think that would have pissed people off less.

Telling people to leave the forum because they don't like the same type of tickling that you like is also messed up. They have every right to be there as much as you or I. And frankly, people with their tickling clip preferences probably have a majority over people with our preferences. Regardless, you just don't do that. It wouldn't be right if they told you to leave because you want to see real intense tickle torture, would it?

The obscene amounts of obscene attacks ("......you are the most obtuse piece of flotsam I've ever seen.") is also a point of contention for me. Here's what you do. Next time you are about to call someone a name, say, a douchebag, then stop.............and that's it. There's very little I can directly say about your post. Like I said, it was your tone more than anything else that really wasn't needed. Watching you name-call was like watching a monkey repeatedly throwing his head against a tree, which in turn is like watching your average junior high school student nowadays trying to use proper grammar. ChosenofMystra got it right. You calling everyone else immature really was the pot calling the kettle black.

I know you probably had every right to go completely psycho on those who repeatedly accused you of requesting non-con material, but that doesn't actually mean you do it! You had nothing to apologize to them for before you made the post, you hadn't said one thing that was wrong, offensive, insensitive, out of line, or anything like that. But then you went and instead of making an intelligent and coherent response, you spat back the same venomous bile that they spat at you in the first place.

Good job with that one. Maybe you should calm down first before you write your next reply.

That's really it, at least for now. So yes, I think certain people owe certain others an apology. And while I'm not naming names (except for Todd, of course), if you are wondering whether you are one of those people, then yes, you owe someone an apology.

And one last thing. If people would freakin' think before they speak, choose their words carefully, not throw their own meaning into other people's words, speak rationally instead of calling names, and stop making snap judgment calls about other people that you are in no position to make, we wouldn't have these sorts of problems. Just watch your words. It's not hard. But from the trends I've been seeing on the TMF lately, I'll give this piece of advice. I'd say this applies to a very high percentage of our members: If you are ever on a thread like this and you are about to say something, it is the wrong thing to say. I don't know what you were going to say, but don't say it. It's a bad idea. Doesn't matter what you were going to say, just don't. Don't. Think about what you are going to say before you say it, and then just move to another thread.

And my final piece of advice: GROW UP!!!!!!!!!!