For those who support piracy of clips...please read

[tttony]

Is it okay for 13 year old boys to watch professional wrestling, or mix martial arts fighting? What if they end up with a homosexual fetish for men's asses or testicles? Or, they like rotten.com, and gain a death fetish? Your 13 year old boy argument, is non-sensical...

What if the 13 year old boy commits suicide by age 17? Because the parent(s), were huge protectionists?

Excuse me? is professional wrestling or martial art a sexual related fetish? lol

 

[tttony]

I wasn't going to bother responding to any of your comments since most of them are simply an opportunity to express opinions which you have already ranted about at length in another thread, and which have little to do with the subject of the thread. Since you insist on speculating wildly and inaccurately about the amount of money producers actually make however, I will set you straight on a couple of details. Firstly, I was not complaining about a loss of $200 per month. I have no idea what if anything the actual cost of piracy is to myself or other producers since we cannot measure this. I do not feel it is useful to pick estimated figures out of the sky and then come out with a total amount as you have been doing, but as others have said, it is likely that all the main producers have lost some potential customers and sales due to some people being granted access to all our releases for free.

My complaint in that example was about having $200 of sales taken back in one night, which does affect my earnings for that month, particularly when it happens again a week or so later and when it happens via my members site also. The amount producers make will vary greatly from store to store but I can safely say most producers are not making $90,000 a year and taking home $35-50,000. I have had top selling clips and my store has been in the top 5 for much of the last year or so and I don't make anywhere close to that amount. My overheads in terms of modelling fees and travel expenses, studio lease etc account for a large majority of my earnings. If I were to try and live solely off the net earnings (profits) from my clips, I would barely be able to cover my mortgage and put food on the table - it is not a company director's salary. I actually work approx 25-30 hours a week in another job and then put upwards of 30 hours per week into producing, distributing and releasing content for my sites - when I say I work hard at this I mean I work hard, often working on clips until late at night and then going to work at another job in the morning.

This is why we get pissed off that content is taken for granted, ripped and distributed freely to as many people as possible (including those 13 year olds that are of such concern to you) by someone who labels producers 'greedy' and portrays himself as a nice guy. With the low margins and high cost of hiring models, a loss of several hundred dollars at a time does affect what I can do, without considering any potential losses from the large scale piracy. It all happens as a result of fraud, on a scale of hundreds if not thousands of dollars per month - that is an actual crime in the legal sense, unlike clip production itself, which is a crime only within your own imagination.

My estimate of 35-50 grand a year is not out of the sky, but was suggested by Jeff. Anyway I understand your frustration, I only wish you'd be more sensible to the problem of minors watching your clips.

 

[tttony]

Most producers don't make anywhere near 35-50 gand a year. That's the exception. One can't assume the biggest, most popular producers are typical examples of producers in general.

Take me, for instance. I'm definitely not one of the big players in this market, but I don't think I'm one of the worst off either (at least I hope not). Well, for the last several months I've made an average of about $800 in sales per month. Not too bad, I guess. Unfortunately, a typical 2-model shoot (which I've been doing about once a month in recent times) usually costs me $300 to $400 in salary expenses alone. And let's not even talk about all the time and effort that goes into finding models, planning and doing shoots, editing the footage, producing picture and clip samples, writing descriptions, uploading to C4S or whatever, posting on tickling forums, etc. So a loss of $200 a month is actually a HUGE deal.

Another thing I should point out is that a fairly large percentage of my monthly sales are of older clips. I'm not especially prolific, but I've been doing this for the last 10 years, and I've managed to build a fairly substantial back catalog. Sales for more recent videos aren't very impressive, most of them barely covering their production costs, if even that in some cases. If it weren't for my back catalog I would have closed shop a long time ago because sales would be way too low to justify doing more shoots. I expect things are pretty hard for many producers who haven't been in the business for very long and haven't had a chance to accumulate hundreds of clips for customers to choose from. So, if my situation isn't nearly as great as some people seem to think it is, imagine how bad is it for many of the other producers, and how damaging being cheated out of $200 a month would be for them.

In my opinion, another reason for the dropping of sales is that the market is flooded with tickling clips and people start to get tired of them as they are all about the same. Been there seen that. It gets pretty boring after a while actually.

 

[Jagermeistered]

Excuse me? is professional wrestling or martial art a sexual related fetish? lol

Are you a psychologist? 😛

 

[Jagermeistered]

I think you drank way too much jagermeister lol....just kidding. A model can find another job, maybe a more decent one too or is modeling in tickling clips the only thing she can do?

Can she find another job? Yes!

But, who are you to pave her road of happiness and elation?

Where is your capital? Can you create a way-of-life, worth living?

 

[Jagermeistered]

In my opinion, another reason for the dropping of sales is that the market is flooded with tickling clips and people start to get tired of them as they are all about the same. Been there seen that. It gets pretty boring after a while actually.

So, you speak for all consumers? If I could do that; I would be retired... 😀

 

[chase]

Turtleboy, I didn't see in any of your posts where you mentioned this, but did you file a DMCA (or whatever the UK equivalent might be) with the blog host?
That should get your material removed. And if every producer that's being pirated on that blog filed one, it may be enough to get him closed.

 

[tttony]

So, you speak for all consumers? If I could do that; I would be retired... 😀

Nope, I said "in my opinion" 😉

 

[tttony]

Are you a psychologist? 😛

Being a psychologist has nothing to do here. You just can't compare professional wrestling to a sexual related fetish like a tickling fetish, period. They are two completely different things.

 

[tttony]

Can she find another job? Yes!

But, who are you to pave her road of happiness and elation?

Where is your capital? Can you create a way-of-life, worth living?

I am not sure I am following you here either. I don't pave any road, if a job isnt paying enough anymore, or I lose it, I just look for another job hopefully better than the one I lost, pretty simple 😉

 

[Jagermeistered]

Being a psychologist has nothing to do here. You just can't compare professional wrestling to a sexual related fetish like a tickling fetish, period. They are two completely different things.

Yes, you can... What if a model is really into it? Just like guys/gals, are into wrestling guys/gals? Just because you are in front of a camera, doesn't mean you are against your own actions.

 

[Jagermeistered]

I am not sure I am following you here either. I don't pave any road, if a job isnt paying enough anymore, or I lose it, I just look for another job hopefully better than the one I lost, pretty simple 😉

You just contradicted yourself... 😛

 

[Jagermeistered]

Nope, I said "in my opinion" 😉

I will give you that much...

 

[The Last Laugh]

In my opinion, another reason for the dropping of sales is that the market is flooded with tickling clips and people start to get tired of them as they are all about the same. Been there seen that. It gets pretty boring after a while actually.

Obviously the constantly growing competition and the saturation of the market have a lot to do with business not being that great for most producers. But that's besides the point I was trying to make.

I hope other people will be more interested in my attempt to provide more realistic figures from the point of view of a more or less average producer. Then again, I don't know what percentage of us manage to make actual profits, so I don't know how average I really am.

 

[The Last Laugh]

Turtleboy, I didn't see in any of your posts where you mentioned this, but did you file a DMCA (or whatever the UK equivalent might be) with the blog host?
That should get your material removed. And if every producer that's being pirated on that blog filed one, it may be enough to get him closed.

To my knowledge, people have been working on the case for quite some time, and yet the guy always manages to come back. I'm afraid the situation isn't that simple at all. You'd think it would be, but it isn't.

 

[tttony]

Yes, you can... What if a model is really into it? Just like guys/gals, are into wrestling guys/gals? Just because you are in front of a camera, doesn't mean you are against your own actions.

Your are turning it around. You brought up the wrestling saying a 13 yo watching it could get a fetish for asses and testicles which is absurd because wrestling is not sexually related like a tickling fetish porn clip is.

This is what you wrote:

"Is it okay for 13 year old boys to watch professional wrestling, or mix martial arts fighting? What if they end up with a homosexual fetish for men's asses or testicles?"

 

[tttony]

You just contradicted yourself... 😛

Really? I don't see where I contraddicted myself 🙂

 

[Jagermeistered]

Your are turning it around. You brought up the wrestling saying a 13 yo watching it could get a fetish for asses and testicles which is absurd because wrestling is not sexually related like a tickling fetish porn clip is.

This is what you wrote:

"Is it okay for 13 year old boys to watch professional wrestling, or mix martial arts fighting? What if they end up with a homosexual fetish for men's asses or testicles?"

Shall we start from square A? Basically, what is a fetish?

 

[tku]

To my knowledge, people have been working on the case for quite some time, and yet the guy always manages to come back. I'm afraid the situation isn't that simple at all. You'd think it would be, but it isn't.

To paraphrase John Gilmore: "The Internet interprets censorship as damage and routes around it". You kill one site; there's nothing stopping another one from popping up, or simply another method being used to distribute the information/files. It paid a large part in people being able to organise and overthrow oppressive regimes during the Arab Spring, it helps us learn the truth when our governments try to fool us and this same quality has fed the explosion in file sharing over the past 15 years or so. In the main, it's one of the Internet's greatest assets ...but it also allows the darkest and most lawless places on the internet to persist as a consequence.

It's the main reason the best offence against unauthorised file sharing is to make sure the distributors don't get their hands on the files in the first place; a strong defence. However, like many things, it's easier said than done 🙂

 

[ReyaFet]

I just want to say thank you to everyone who makes legitimate purchases from my site and my clips4sales, as well as from other tickling producers' sites. While it's disturbing to see the products of mine and Psymon's hard-earned work - tons of time and money out of our own pockets (to hire models) simply given away for free, for the fans, I can see how the temptation would be great. So it takes both moral and social consciousness to continue to support us directly. We know who you are and that's why we continue to give you the stuff that you want to see through requests, custom videos, etc. 15 years ago people were rich off of this stuff (they were, trust me!) but thank you for understanding that those days are long gone and now most of us are just trying to make a decent living doing something we love to do. It would be a shame if the piracy and tube sites forced us all to pursue other work, so thank you so much for your support. 🙂 <3

 

[Darth Sidious]

It's the main reason the best offence against unauthorised file sharing is to make sure the distributors don't get their hands on the files in the first place; a strong defence. However, like many things, it's easier said than done 🙂

Agreed and you are exactly right! I've got a design just for that in mind. Nothing is ever "perfect" in a sense, but you can sure make it very unattractive to do so 🙂.

 

[The Last Laugh]

It's the main reason the best offence against unauthorised file sharing is to make sure the distributors don't get their hands on the files in the first place; a strong defence. However, like many things, it's easier said than done 🙂

I'm not sure I understand how this can be done in a way that doesn't penalize paying customers. That's why I don't use DRM encoding for my clips, for instance. If the strategy used to prevent illegal distributors to gain access to one's clips involves inconveniencing legitimate customers, then it might turn out to be more damaging than helpful.

 

[tku]

I'm not sure I understand how this can be done in a way that doesn't penalize paying customers. That's why I don't use DRM encoding for my clips, for instance. If the strategy used to prevent illegal distributors to gain access to one's clips involves inconveniencing legitimate customers, then it might turn out to be more damaging than helpful.

I agree! Aside from inconveniencing customers and being a general pain in the rear, DRM usually involves proprietary cryptography that was cracked a long time ago - pirates just remove it and carry on as before. This doesn't even take into account that anything that plays through a computer graphics/sound card can be recorded, thus compounding DRM's uselessness 😀

In the case of chargebacks, which is apparently the rocket propellant fuelling the piracy in this case, what I am talking about specifically is the need to have far better credit card security procedures on clips4sale or any e-commerce platform for that matter - so that before anybody can make or finalise a purchase, they have verified their card via an industry standard method such as this or this. It adds a step to the purchasing process which some people might find slightly inconvenient and it won't stop genuine card holders issuing chargebacks (that's a legal right of course) but if clips4sale did this, the guy/s who are apparently using stolen credit card lists wouldn't be able to play the chargeback game with your stores. I know some of you guys are looking to build or improve your own infrastructure so I'd recommend looking into it if you feel that it would help your business 🙂

 

[mabus]

This is one of the best, most informative threads we've had in a god while, and thanks Turtleboy for starting it, and producers for weighing in.

This tttony fella has kind of derailed it, so I have graciously started another thread, so he and all his debaters can continue there:

http://www.ticklingforum.com/showth...-the-Tickling-Forum-and-all-these-video-clips

Knock yourself out, no need to thank me.

Okay, now that that's over with, a big problem here is that clips4sale simply isn't enforcing their own rules and guidelines. When you buy any clip, this is what comes up:

This information is recorded in the event of fraud and/or dispute.
If caught with fraud or dispute, you will be prosecuted to the fullest extent of U.S. and International law.

Obviously, they're not doing that.

It's like the shoplifting problem - people shoplift, and you can't stop them unless you're a cop. Walmart was crazy about this - we'd just sit back and watch some thug walk
out with a bottle of liquor, and no one could do a damn thing about it. Or a stack of CDs.

I actually have a solution:

Tommy said he's pretty sure the guy's a failed producer.

Out the guy!

Say who it is. Expose him.

The guy's shutting down businesses. More may close. This affects many, many people here. The videoclips forum is one of the most highly trafficked.

It won't do much to stop him, but people should at least know who the hell it is that's causing all this grief.

 

[chase]

To my knowledge, people have been working on the case for quite some time, and yet the guy always manages to come back. I'm afraid the situation isn't that simple at all. You'd think it would be, but it isn't.

Okay. Sounds like there's more going on here than I'm aware of. Best of luck to turtleboy and others who are having trouble with this guy.